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“CHICAGO (Reuters) - A study of more than 1,800 patients who underwent heart bypass surgery has failed to show that prayers specially organized for their recovery had any impact, researchers said Thursday.
In fact, the study found some of the patients who knew they were being prayed for did worse than others who were only told they might be prayed for -- though those who did the study said they could not explain why.
The patients in the study at six U.S. hospitals included 604 who were actually prayed for after being told they might or might not be; another 597 patients who were not prayed for after being told they might or might not be; and a group of 601 who were prayed for and told they would be the subject of such prayer.
The praying was done by members of three Christian groups in monasteries and elsewhere -- two Catholic and one Protestant -- who were given written prayers and the first name and initial of the last name of the prayer subjects. The prayers started on the eve of or day of surgery and lasted for two weeks.”
"One caveat is that with so many individuals receiving prayer from friends and family, as well as personal prayer, it may be impossible to disentangle the effects of study prayer from background prayer," Manoj Jain of Baptist Memorial Hospital, Memphis, Tennessee, another author of the report.
The authors said one possible limitation to their study was that those doing the special praying had no connection or acquaintance with the subjects of their prayer, which would not usually be the norm.
"Private or family prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, and the results of this study do not challenge this belief," the report concluded.
Originally posted by Prot0n
I'm not sure if I'd put much faith into prayer curing a life threatening disease
Prayer takes faith. I've actually seen prayer in action from a family member and a minute later her prayer was definitely fulfilled, even I was astounded by the works of our Lord that day!
There is no one study that is ever going to convince me that praying cannot help someone we love.
Prayer takes three things: Belief. Faith. Love.
so I don't have an expectation that when I pray it will be fulfilled!
Originally posted by daedalas
How could it possibly help someone to sit and talk to yourself? As much as you would like to beleive some imaginary figure is going to solve all of your problems for you, at some point you have to say "hey this just isn't working" and then possibly do something meaningful and worthwhile.
Why not? God (Or Jesus, forget which), says all prayer's will get answered. You tell that to the religous folk who were praying when they died in 9/11.
Your anger over "something" is evident just by your two responses I've read here in this post and in another religious area.
It isn't relavent the "reason" the person in my family was praying as that is not what was being debated in the original topic. I gave an alternative- and quite valid in my opinion- reason why I believe prayer does work. What does it matter whether it comes from just me or Reuters?
Prayer, for me isn't something I'd call a happy place. Generally, when I've prayed it was because I was NOT in a happy place, be it physically, spiritually or emotionally.
Sure prayer doesn't *seem* work in a lot of cases but medical technology doesn't work on a lot of people either. Some people can have chemotherepy and thrive and live long healthy lives, some die.
I think believing that prayer is harmful is even more foolish than believing it doesn't even work. You have taken one piece of someones little study and gone haywire with it. This is the first time in my life I've ever heard that prayer can cause harm, ever!
And that's pretty much what I would say to those who lost people whether it's 9/11 or in some hospital bed or anywhere else...
Of course not. It's much easier to believe in a happy place.
I don't think I'm being ignorant, arrogant or hypocritical. And I don't think it's appropriate to insult or name call as we are all adults here (i think) and I have no problems continuing to answer you so long as you cease with that behaviour.
You actually did basically say prayer was a happy place.
Of course not. Despite the amount of evidence against monotheism, or any *theism, it's quiet hard to shake one of their belief in such. It's much easier to believe in a happy place.
You keep stating over and over that "people" are taking things out of context, maybe you could try a little clarification when you use a particular persons quotes. I know that when I quote someone here I'm directly speaking to them about what they've stated. So why confuse it by speaking of many others without clarification on that? Who are the "those" you are referring to? I apologise but I thought you were talking about religious people or believers of prayer and because I happen to consider myself one of "those" I thought you were insulting me.
Personally, I don't feel it's even necessary to insult anyone here or any "group". Your gonna find it hard to get your questions answered if you do that. And if you have anger towards an entire belief system then I can't possibly help you can I? You've generalised and summed up a certain group and then project hostility toward anyone who comes close to be a member of that group because of your own refusal to listen or attempt to understand even though I'm sensing that you want to?
Perhaps it might be easier if you tried understanding the person you were typing to rather than catagorizing them in some "group" you call "those".
Originally posted by Prot0n
I read somewhere, (can't remember the website but shouldn't be hard to find something similar on it) that prayer is about as effective as the placebo effect. I'm not sure if I'd put much faith into prayer curing a life threatening disease regardless of the 50/50 placebo effect chance of it appearing to work.
This was the first time I'd read anything of yours posted here on ATS/BTS, as for one, I don't post a whole lot anymore, so how would I have known that in other places on ATS/BTS you insulted groups of people who believe a certain way?
Now that we have that cleared up, I hope. Then can I ask you this? What purpose or what intention do you have coming into a thread such as this and debating or attemting to, with people you have labled as ignorant, arrogant and hypocritical? So that you can feel better about your assumption? Or so that you can understand the reasoning why someone such as myself, believes in prayer therefore defends prayer over some Rueters article? If you've already labled me a certain way, without hearing me, then how can I aim to surpass "your" expectation(s)?
Nowhere in my posts ever have I said that "your particular kind" is immoral or heathen satinists bound for hell LOL! Those words would never even come out of my mouth much less out of my thoughts.
You and I, whether "religious" or not are going to disagree. I've disagreed with people in my own family and for the most part our belief system is very close. But I also understand that not everyone can behave as me or believe fully as I do and some people even oppose my beliefs. I don't think they are ignorant for that, I think wow, God created a world of individuals!
I believe prayer works because I believe in God and I believe in the Word, I have faith, not as strong as it could be, but not as weak as it used to be and lastly because I love the person I choose to pray for. Jesus prayed all the time and that alone gives me 100% proof that praying is worthwhile and important.
For one thing, when I pray I feel closer to God than I did one minute before. I feel a certain bond with Him that no man or angel can sever because it is something sacred between the Lord and I that no man can take from me, even if I was placed in a black hole naked, I'd have my faith and my prayers to get me out. That's just me and that's what makes me different, accept it or don't it's your choice.
Originally posted by Prot0n
As I stated, the anger stems from the ignorance, arrogance, and the hypocrits. Those who preach "love" and practice the opposite.
Originally posted by ProtOn
Or those who enjoy twisting the bible for their own purposes.
As I stated, the anger stems from the ignorance, arrogance, and the hypocrits. Those who preach "love" and practice the opposite. Basically, love those of the same belief and tell the rest they're heathen satan worshippers. Or those who enjoy twisting the bible for their own purposes. Another thing that really irritates me are those religous people who don't even know their bible. It's quiet aggravating holding a discussion with someone who will sit there and deny that a particular verse exist's even when shown which verse and where it is. The "anger" isn't towards individual people themselve's, just the whole belief system.
I did say one of my problem's with people was how they take thing's out of context didn't I?
And think about your attitude toward's gay people and the love they show towards each other.
I think what you have written above is a failure in many of today's churches in my area. In the case of homosexuals and one church in particular in my area, they aren't allowed to walk in the front door, let alone become a participant on Sunday.
If a church is being misled by the pastor or priest, then I have no responsibility for their downfall unless I am taking a direct part in that downfall. The bible does teach that I have a responsibility to go to an individual or a church that is not following the teachings of God and tell them how they are not following correctly, but there are stipulations for how to do this.