Originally posted by shaunybaby
Just a question, I need my passport renewed. I'll get it done in the next few months, is all this BS gonna be involved yet like finger printing etc??

i dont think so, not the id cards bit.

maybe the biometrics, im not sure about that.

Apart from the obvious pricavy issues what about other things? As stated by others, will tracking me show i am a potential threat? For example the other day i entered a book store. I had ordered a copy of the Quran, some pagan texts and i bought a copy of the bible. I bought all this because i had a discussion with someone on varies religions and i was caught out on a couple of points so i thought i should read up.

Now would the government see me as a threat? I have read the Quran afterall along with some pagan texts so i must be dangerous surely?

This is my worry with being tracked for every purchase. Say i go out to a gardening store. I buy some potassium nitrate because my roses need the nitrogen, i buy some flower of sulphur becuase my tomotoes need it and maybe i am having a barbecue becuase well i have friends s i buy some charcoal, i now have the basic components for gun powder! What if i buy some hexamine for a camping stove along with some nitric acid because i am interested in hydroponics? I now have the potential ingredients for RDX, which is a very powerful explosive used in the C4 so often quoted in films (granted i need some other things), but basically i now have the ingredients for all sorts of explosives, should i be arrested as a threat?

This is my major worry, why would you need to track our purchases unless you thoguht we were terrorists? Why should i be persecuted for innocent purchases that could look bad? As i described these are innocent purchases and yet they could be used for very nasty things with the knowledge required.

Also how will having my biometrics secure our borders? Maybe they should spend the money on border control instead! Maybe having someone stationed at the ports, but in the end if i want to take out a boat i can happily sail to france and land on a sandy beach without much hassle as long as the boat is small. The same goes for travelling from france to the uk, get in a small boat and land on the shore and you can disappear! How will an ID card stop that? We truly have idiots in government.

Let's be conservative and assume that the cards will cost 5 billion. What could this do for the NHS? What could it do for education? What could it do for law enforcment? we need to remove the beaurocracy from these departments and let them get on with the jobs they chose to do.

[edit on 2-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

you know thats the biggest joke about borders and immigration.
Anyone who has been in the country 3 months and over 16 will be allowed this card!!!!
and it works as a passport!
so what does that do to nationality etc.?
any old imigrant can arrive, hide for three months apply for a id card and then become british.
sounds very dodgy to me, what am i missing?

Originally posted by AdamJ
you know thats the biggest joke about borders and immigration.
Anyone who has been in the country 3 months and over 16 will be allowed this card!!!!
and it works as a passport!
so what does that do to nationality etc.?
any old imigrant can arrive, hide for three months apply for a id card and then become british.
sounds very dodgy to me, what am i missing?

I may be wrong and please link to any article that can prove me wrong but i believe it means that anyone who has been legally in the country for 3 months gets the cards. I hope you can prove me wrong on that. I think legally is the important word there.

Although i agree with you on this in some way. For example someone comes here illegally and then claims asylum when caught, if they stay for three months in a detention centre they may be able to claim a card then? I haven’t heard about that.

If i was thinking of moving to a country (which i am) then i would learn the language as a matter of courtesy. In this country if you say that someone should be able to speak English then you are called a racist! If i moved to Germany i would be happy and expect to have to learn German, the same goes for France and any other country. I would expect and be happy to learn the language required. Many immigrants don't even bother and so they segregate themselves from main society and limit themselves to manual cash paid jobs.

I welcome immigration. The UK could not have survived without immigration, lok at the NHS as an example fot that, but i believe conditions should be set. To become a citizen in this country i believe you should be able to speak English and offer a skill we need, or at least be willing to be trained ina skill we need. this isn't racist it is a sensible idea. As i stated iw ould expect whichever country i emigrate to, to say i shoudl do the same, and i would be happy to do so.

Giving the people who come in legally ID cards won't solve anything. It won't solve crime, it won't solve benefit fraud.

Oh and an important point again. If someone in the UK claims Incapacity Benefit or Disability benefit and they actually deserve it (not faking) then how will ID cards affect them? My cousin has an illness and so gets Incapacity Benefit, he is so ill his mother has to cash his checks for him as he can't get to the post office. If ID cards are brought in then his mother can't cash them! How will he cope? Yes he could have them paid directly into his bank account but that would mean getting an ID card. He is to ill to get down to the post office (or wherever else) to get his ID card done. He has shaved his head because it's easier to manage than getting down to the hair dresser because he is so ill he can't even do that.

What about this sort of person? How will they get there ID card and how could they use it?

Look if you guys really want to change things and make your government scared, take some physical action. It is already obvious that writing letters to your representatives, peaceful protests, and petitions have had absolutley zero effect. I live in Tampa, FL USA. There are a few cameras being put up around street corners lately. I have personally noticed however that some of them have been shot out with what was probably a gun of some sort. I have seen at least six in this city that have been destroyed. Perhaps if some of the cameras in your cities were getting destroyed, you could send a message?

I don't know anything is better than just sitting by and taking it you know!!! Destroying the very tool used to attack your freedom and privacy is a way of wresting away control. You must lose the fear.

Originally posted by DYepes
Look if you guys really want to change things and make your government scared, take some physical action. It is already obvious that writing letters to your representatives, peaceful protests, and petitions have had absolutley zero effect. I live in Tampa, FL USA. There are a few cameras being put up around street corners lately. I have personally noticed however that some of them have been shot out with what was probably a gun of some sort. I have seen at least six in this city that have been destroyed. Perhaps if some of the cameras in your cities were getting destroyed, you could send a message?

I don't know anything is better than just sitting by and taking it you know!!! Destroying the very tool used to attack your freedom and privacy is a way of wresting away control. You must lose the fear.

Err dude, recently some people destroyed some speed cameras. They were arrested and charged. If everyone destroyed them then it would be good, but no one will. Seriously loads of people just don't care and that is the problem. I reckon on my own i could get a movement of a few thousand if i tried hard and campained my arse off but it isn't enough. I honestly believe there is no return here, that's why i am going on about leaving this country that i love. It is also why many people i know who are informed of these issues (and care) are also wanting to leave. They recognise that they can't do anything at this point as it's to far gone and that the only thing left to do is leave.

You have to understand the cameras here are mostly armoured, they can't be shot out, and even if we did there are hundreds of thousands of them. I may be wrong but i believe that less people care about this issue than there are cameras!

what about shooting tony blair? there's only one of him

lol...

I beleive leaving the US is probably one of the only means of survival... But to where?

Will there be a place that has enough of an army to fend off the world, and that doesnt want to lock theyre people down?

Aside from Fiji or something... Where could you go?

Im thinking about trying to make enough money to set up a small stupid online business or something for my mom to do, just so she can make enough to pay rent on a place, that way she can sell the house and hang on to the cash for insurance (insurance, according to chris rock, should be called 'In Case #'). A few more guns, and a few extremely necessary supplies, like means to leave, maybe passports and fake id's for the family. gas masks, guns, and some more guns... Also, just a note..

Even tho it may be that all the rich have all the gold, there is something else that you can purchase, that is worth its weight in gold... and it will never depreciate. No matter what happens to the world. World in chaos and economy no longer there? The value just gets better...
This precious thing is called...

Guns.

Invest. The more the better, way more than you could ever need, is even better. Because even if a dollar is worth nothing, a gun will still be worth tons. Trading and Bartering.

I want to work out an entire plan on getting out of the country, and becoming a citizen in another country, and I have een working ont his for a little it now...

Im just not quite sure where to go...

How is spain? I know alot of people hate americans, but if the american openly admits that they hate the american government too, would that make anything better? lol

Originally posted by shaunybaby
what about shooting tony blair? there's only one of him

i will if i think hes got to cocky. no worries.
not yet though
imagine if somone had done that to stalin but they were all to scared.
not me, if its goes bad ill take him out. i dont think hes a bad person though. just a bit naieve

[edit on 2-4-2006 by AdamJ]

Originally posted by Phre0nBurn
Im just not quite sure where to go...

How is spain? I know alot of people hate americans, but if the american openly admits that they hate the american government too, would that make anything better? lol

dont go to any Euro country i would say, unless they are not EU members. there are a few in europe who are pretty independent.
Spain is poor and dependent on EU grants, property is cheap there.
They dont hate Americans m8. dont go to Serbia or Iraq or somewhere though, my advice. lol

my thought would be New Zealand

[edit on 2-4-2006 by AdamJ]

some nations rolling out ID cards proving this is a world project
Brazil
China
UK
US
Pakistan
80% of the EU so far

The fact that this is becoming a world project makes it less unlikely for the UK to turn around and say 'no, we're not doing it now'. Maybe we can still hope for them not having RFID chips, having to take our finger prints etc. I wouldn't actually mind if they were plain ID cards, that every member of the UK got. But even then...there's no need, i've got 3, 4 or 5 forms of ID already. waste of money. end of.

We are gonna be fighting this one till the cows come home..............and then some more !

I dont have a passport or drivers licence and personally dont see that I have to have either, I know who I am and thats the main thing.......why should I have to prove to a total stranger who I am ????


ID cards are a waste of money why should I pay up to £60 to £80 for a ID card just to prove I am ME ?

And if everyones got to have the cards including children with photo's on them, every time you have another baby they get a new card ? What happens when they start to grow up and their looks change? we pay out for another one and again and again ????????

Its just another excuse to get MORE money out of us (and our wages still dont go up to cover it) !

I dont have a passport or drivers licence and personally dont see that I have to have either, I know who I am and thats the main thing.......why should I have to prove to a total stranger who I am ????

Well that's very strange. In the uk you need photo ID to get a bank account now. In fact thats been like that for quite a few years. I don't mind having a passport, there is need for that. And a driving license is an obvious need to stop underage and illegal drivers.

ID cards though are not needed. As Shaunybaby said, most people have numerous cards and documents that prove who they are, why do we need another one?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

I dont have a passport or drivers licence and personally dont see that I have to have either, I know who I am and thats the main thing.......why should I have to prove to a total stranger who I am ????

Well that's very strange. In the uk you need photo ID to get a bank account now. In fact thats been like that for quite a few years. I don't mind having a passport, there is need for that. And a driving license is an obvious need to stop underage and illegal drivers.

I didnt have photo ID when I got my bank-account had it donkeys-years !

I didnt have photo ID when I got my bank-account had it donkeys-years !

Ahh well that will explain it then if you have had one for years.

I still stand by the idea that we need passports and driving licenses though. These are good systems.

IR1984 - you have raised many excellent points. I am with you at the moment - i.e. seriously considering leaving UK before this goes ahead.

Well the ID scheme isn't the only reason i am going to emigrate. If it was just this scheme that was wrong with this country then i would simply help with mass protests and whatever else we could peacefully do to stop the government implementing it. There are many others problems with this country and that's why i am going. The ID scheme is the last straw for me.