ID Cards Compulsory in UK by 2010 - Official

This does sound more and more like the Left Behind series. I can't believe that anyone who read that would be in favor of these chipped ID'S or any national tracking device. Why not require it for criminals or aliens only. It is soooo sinister, how do they expect to get away with it with all the opposition? It's like a very bad b movie. Invasion from Mars, Solyent Green, Invasion of the Pod People Nothing good can come from it. It's time to activate World Resistance Now.

"How do they expect to get away with it with all the opposition"

They got away with the war and we opposed that. They got away with biometric passports and we opposed that. They got away with more speed cameras and we opposed that. They are getting away with so much it's unbelievable. The people in this country are no longer asked, we are told what is best for us. We are treated like children who need to take the hand of a parent to cross the road.

What is shocking me, and this is the main reason we are thinking of emigrating is that most people don't care! I seem to remember a quote from somewhere that ran along the lines of "Bad things happen when good men do nothing". It seems this really is holding true, my apologies if that quote was rather off but i couldn't remember it exactly.

The people who are doing something are in the minority and the ones that do get publicity are either ignored by the goverment or are accused of hiding something. Most people attempt to end the argument with "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". This doesn't work with me as i can provide argument for why you should still fear, but most people hear this and blindly agree.

If protesting and sound argument doesn't make a goverment pay attention then can it really be called a democracy anymore? If the people want something and the goverment does the opposite then is it democracy? We have a dictatorship disguised as democracy. We are allowed to vote but the partys have few differences anymore. It's like being told to choose between two shades of grey. Is this democracy?

[edit on 2-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by AdamJ

Originally posted by Clipper

David Cameron has now said he supports the cards. The UK citizens have no control over the matter whoever wins the next election.

has he? cna you link. i thought they claimed they were against them

I apologise for my error. What I meant is the Tories have let the bill pass. They should have continued to use all methods to stop the bill until Labour was forced to use the Parliament Act. They could have rejected the Lords amendment but as David Davis said it is "just acceptable." Just acceptable that is to turn it into a new poll tax at the next election and use it as a political football.

IR1984 yes they can get away with it but won't many people go underground if necessary to resist. Eventually the Hitlers of the world are called to face their crimes. Clearly we should stop this now but how does that get organized when people are so mesmerized by their Ipod, HDTV's the latest reality tv shows? We need organization, direction we need to resist the mark of the beast.

Originally posted by polanksi
IR1984 yes they can get away with it but won't many people go underground if necessary to resist. Eventually the Hitlers of the world are called to face their crimes. Clearly we should stop this now but how does that get organized when people are so mesmerized by their Ipod, HDTV's the latest reality tv shows? We need organization, direction we need to resist the mark of the beast.

Err i don't know about the "Mark of the beast", i am not religious in that manner. I also think that bringing such ideas into this kind of discussion can lead to it being dismissed outright as paronoid fantasy. I have nothing against religion (yes honestly) but it does not belong in this discussion.

People cannot go underground if ID cards come in, not if they are law abiding. If you aren't law abiding then it still isn't easy, you would have to give up the economic system unless of course you can fake a card or get someone else with a card to manage your money.

As the borg would say "Resistance is futile" (god how geeky was that!). The thing is if we stand by and do nothing it will happen, but if we try and do something we get ignored so there is no difference. I seriously doubt most british people will actually take offensive physical action to prevent it. I mean i don't want to take action in that manner and this is the governments strength. They know that the people of our country won't raise up in that manner and so they can do whatever they wish.

[edit on 2-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

God... Does anyone else here get that gut feeling, the one you cant do anything about?

I HATE IT! It sucks...
But once again, what to do?

This isnt just a segregated issue...
This, as with everything else going on, is all tied in together.

'How do you stop it?' You ask...
I dunno... How long is a string?

If you were to tally up all of the insane crap that our governments are doing to us and to our freedoms and ways of life, not only would it be a huge list, but in the end, you would realize, what i beleive i am starting to realize, and i am not happy about.

What does a country do when things just get too out of hand, and things getting better, or cooling down, just isnt an option?

People vs. Government

Got any other ideas?

I say we build a space station. Haha
Then we can watch the world destroy itself. We could have the entire moon. No one owns it, well take it. Haha

then when the dumbasses that somehow sleep at night down here and done and dead, we can come back, and maybe have a decent world.

Until something happens, we are all screwed. Im going to go on with life, try to make some money, keep having fun and buying more and more weapons.

lol

What else can i do? Worry do death?

A good man once said (lol)
"Worrying is about as effective as chewing bubblegum to solve an algebra equation."


So true...

A good man once said (lol)
"Worrying is about as effective as chewing bubblegum to solve an algebra equation."

I seem to remember this being included in a song from somewhere but i can't remember it.


I woudln't worry to death no. What i would do is protest (and i have done) but it doesn't seem to achieve anything. As i said, when protesting and public opinion agree and aren't payed attention to, then do we have a democracy?

haha, its from the Sunscreen song...
Pretty good song actually, not sure how I remembered that though...

And yea, what does protesting do?

I suspect, as far as the illegal immigration thing goes, that the government has plans on what they are going to do...

Maybe already know that they will approve it, but just hang it in suspense for awhile, let people get pissed off, then when tensions are at theyre highest, drop it, and say yes, BAM, people go nuts, marshal law kicks in, government has full control of the country. Easy plan if you ask me.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

If a failing leader such as Blair, sliding further down the polls month after month, can enforce this visibily useless, flawed and unwanted measure in a country which in actuality has (so far) more democratic public freedoms than the US.

Is that a joke? Our country is not free compared to the US. Did you know that we have to get police permission to have a peaceful protest if we are going anywhere near parliament? Most communist countries don't force that sort of thing.

Do a little research and you'll discover that overall, despite the recent erosion in UK civil liberties, we do, for now, still have slightly more actual freedom than a citizen in the US. There are more than enough examples on this forum of things happening in America right now that would still seem unbelievable in the UK.

I have to say, given the magnitude of the situation under discussion, I think it's a bit sad that you chose to focus your rant on the one comment in my post that has nothing directly to do with the ID card debate.

Originally posted by Clipper

Originally posted by AdamJ

Originally posted by Clipper

David Cameron has now said he supports the cards. The UK citizens have no control over the matter whoever wins the next election.

has he? cna you link. i thought they claimed they were against them

I apologise for my error. What I meant is the Tories have let the bill pass. They should have continued to use all methods to stop the bill until Labour was forced to use the Parliament Act. They could have rejected the Lords amendment but as David Davis said it is "just acceptable." Just acceptable that is to turn it into a new poll tax at the next election and use it as a political football.

thats ok. yea i know what you mean, i was suprised when i heard that they were against it as well. A labour source (can remember who) says by the time they get into a position to do anything on it, it will be unstopable anyway, so maybe thats why they can get away with the anti-id stance.

Originally posted by Kung Foo Fighter

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

If a failing leader such as Blair, sliding further down the polls month after month, can enforce this visibily useless, flawed and unwanted measure in a country which in actuality has (so far) more democratic public freedoms than the US.

Is that a joke? Our country is not free compared to the US. Did you know that we have to get police permission to have a peaceful protest if we are going anywhere near parliament? Most communist countries don't force that sort of thing.

Do a little research and you'll discover that overall, despite the recent erosion in UK civil liberties, we do, for now, still have slightly more actual freedom than a citizen in the US. There are more than enough examples on this forum of things happening in America right now that would still seem unbelievable in the UK.

I have to say, given the magnitude of the situation under discussion, I think it's a bit sad that you chose to focus your rant on the one comment in my post that has nothing directly to do with the ID card debate.

I havn't focused my rant on one point. Read my posts again, how dare you accuse me of focusing on one point! I have made multiple points on ID cards and freedom, read through them if you dont' believe me.

thats ok. yea i know what you mean, i was suprised when i heard that they were against it as well. A labour source (can remember who) says by the time they get into a position to do anything on it, it will be unstopable anyway, so maybe thats why they can get away with the anti-id stance.

I believe it was charles clark who said that it would be unstoppable even if the conservatives won the next election.

I found a news article about not being able to stop it. Here is a quote from it and then the link to it

Mr Clarke did not name a date for making them compulsory, saying it would depend on the rate passports were renewed.

But he did not think the opposition would be able to stop the scheme because by 2010 a "large number of people... should either have cards or hope to have cards".

"I would be very surprised if the next Conservative manifesto said 'stop the scheme'. It would be very difficult to do," he said.

news.bbc.co.uk...



[edit on 2-4-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Kung Foo Fighter

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Is that a joke? Our country is not free compared to the US. Did you know that we have to get police permission to have a peaceful protest if we are going anywhere near parliament? Most communist countries don't force that sort of thing.

Do a little research and you'll discover that overall, despite the recent erosion in UK civil liberties, we do, for now, still have slightly more actual freedom than a citizen in the US. There are more than enough examples on this forum of things happening in America right now that would still seem unbelievable in the UK.

I have to say, given the magnitude of the situation under discussion, I think it's a bit sad that you chose to focus your rant on the one comment in my post that has nothing directly to do with the ID card debate.

I agree, by comparsion the uk is along way ahead in my opinion. Blair doing his best to mess it up though, trying to get rid of the house of lord opposition to any of his dictates, trying to get rid of parliament, wanting to get rid of juries.

[edit on 2-4-2006 by AdamJ]

[edit on 2-4-2006 by AdamJ]

If a certain favourite IT supplier of the UK Government gets the contract to set the ID syetm up then we've a while yet before it'll work and be implemented
The downside is that it'll still be us, the taxpayers, who will pay the vastly over-inflated price tag after a procurement oversight fails to write penalty clauses into the contract

I work closely with new Access / Smart card technologies so I'll be following this with interest. I already use smart card technologies in the workplace for building access / biometric authentication for high security areas and cashless vending. That's fine for a business environment in order to (attempt) to stop industrial espionage and unauthorised access. It is NOT acceptable to have this in the public domain.
I remember watching part of a speech by Gordon Brown a few weeks ago where he talked at length about the ID card issue and the "benefits". He even went on to talk about using our fingerprints to pay for goods in a safe and cashless society. Great! every time I spend my money the transaction will be processed, scrutinised, passed to marketing companies for demographic targeting etc. Who's damn business is it where I spend my money and on what? The paper money we already have can be wiped out or devalued at the stroke of a pen by some banker as it is, whilst the big boys hoard the shiny metals that are the real value.
The day is definitely coming, in someones eyes (?) where we will all be catalogued, tracked and scrutinised in everything we do. Anyone voicing dissent will be put on a watch list, although I am sure this already happens.

This is not purely a British thing but is happening in a lot of places and I'd sure like to know who is really behind it, given it's unpopularity. The governments we have are just the talking heads and front men for the real power brokers in the world. At least there are still signs of dissenting countries that hold out. Anyone know what the climate is like in Venezuela?

big corporations are behind it.

do you know where i can find that GB speech? id be interested

Originally posted by polanksi
I seriously doubt most british people will actually take offensive physical action to prevent it. I mean i don't want to take action in that manner and this is the governments strength. They know that the people of our country won't raise up in that manner and so they can do whatever they wish.

I don't know. I get the feeling now that many people who wouldn't have previously 'risen up' have reached a point where they're sick and tired of seeing democracy eroded by this Government. I believe that as more people become truly aware of what exactly the ID Card/Database entails, those feelings will get stronger and ultimately manifest themselves in a more visible manner.

Peaceful protest no longer works, it's been publically spat on by Blair's Government. Under the new "terrorism" laws peaceful protest can be (and has been on a number of occasions) made illegal. When the freedom of peaceful protest is removed from the people, what option do the people have left but violent protest?

I think the Government may reap the whirlwind on this one.


[edit on 2-4-2006 by Kung Foo Fighter]

What's the point in 'another' proof or document to say who I am. Right now I've got a college card, a passport, a provisional driver's license, birth certificate etc.

Do I now need to have even more proof that I exist? In the form of finger prints, eye scans, DNA and so on? An RFID chip to track where I am, what I do, what I buy etc. And if people don't carry their ID cards, are the government going to make it compulsory for everyone to have an RFID chip implanted in their skin? If we resist that we get fined, go to prison and what not.

Instead of treating our own countrymen like prisoners and criminals, how about they get out there and fight the fight. All this money that's going in to ID cards could be better spent on combating terrorism in the form of intelligence. The same could be said for people in poverty or the NHS. This is plain and simply throwing money away. Throwing 'our' tax payer's money away.

Here's part of the GB speech. The whole speech, if you can stomach so much BS is here:
www.hm-treasury.gov.uk...


So it is likely in future that a supermarket or bank may hold your biometrics, but at the moment those charged with the protection of your security - indeed the people who can actually protect your security - do not. As a customer you would, under the private sector initiatives being developed, have biometrics stored, but as citizen you would not.

So the issue is not whether advances in biometrics are being put to use - identity information about us to protect our security is being given voluntarily to credit card and computer companies to safeguard access to finance and computers and now being used also for employment and employee recognition. For example, biometrics are increasingly being used to control access to buildings with particular needs for security. And with passports now requiring biometrics, a necessity people understand, 80 per cent of the adult population will have to register their biometrics to ensure our borders are secure and so they can travel freely across the world. In each case safeguards must be built in to protect misuse of information.

He does make the point that 1 in 4 criminals use stolen identities in the pursuit of crime. So do the alphabet intelligence services of our and other governments

Britguy... Venezuela sounds pretty nice actually... I almost want to just scam for a little bit here in the US and get some $$ together, and then head out, somewhere far away...
Honestly, the only reason I am still in the US is attachment. As in family and friends. Aside from that, nothing is stopping me, and if I could take a good 10 or so people with me, I would be gone... Far away, living a new life as Bob Labla (say it fast, youll get it, i register my phones and stuff in this name, for my own paranoia reasons)

But seriously... This is all crazy...
And yea, they can track everthing... On top of what has already been mentioned
they could even get crazier, say they see you buying more alcohol than you should, so they report it to your employer... Or porn, the same thing...

'Well you can have this job if you only smoke so many cigarettes, or have so many drinks. and we will track your purchased to find out'

Crazy stuff could happen.

Next thing you know, the government could have an entire database of pictures and fingerprints of people... Oh wait... they did that years ago.

Luckily, fingerprints can be changed.
Eyes and blood might be a little harder to pull off.

Pills that get absorbed in your blood and make your dna come out all screwy when they take it? i dunno, just an idea.

Honestly, I have to say at this point, thank god for the people that learn how to 'crack' technologies. I hope they get stronger. They should be funded by citizens.

Just a question, I need my passport renewed. I'll get it done in the next few months, is all this BS gonna be involved yet like finger printing etc??

Originally posted by Britguy
Here's part of the GB speech. The whole speech, if you can stomach so much BS is here:
www.hm-treasury.gov.uk...

He does make the point that 1 in 4 criminals use stolen identities in the pursuit of crime. So do the alphabet intelligence services of our and other governments

thanx, i like this bit.

"80 per cent of the adult population will have to register their biometrics to ensure our borders are secure and so they can travel freely across the world"

register to be free. hmmm
How about you just leave us all alone and sort out the health service which you have somehow destroyed.