Iran Tests Missile Able to Avoid Radar

Stealthy strike aircraft such as the F-117, designed by Lockheed Martin's famous SkunkWorks, are usually used against heavily defended enemy sites such as Command and Control centres or surface-to-air (SAM) batteries. Enemy radar will cover the airspace around these sites with overlapping coverage, making undetected entry by conventional aircraft nearly impossible. Stealthy aircraft can also be detected, but only at very short ranges around the radars, so that for a stealthy aircraft there are substantial gaps in the radar coverage. Thus a stealthy aircraft flying an appropriate route can remain undetected by radar. Most low RCS radars exploit Doppler filter to increase the SNR, knowing the exact location of the radars enables to design a flight path that has zero radial speed, therefore invisible. Note that in order to be able to fly these "safe" routes, it is necessary to understand the enemy's radar coverage - see Electronic Intelligence. Also note that if the enemy has mobile radars, such as AWACS, this can complicate matters.

en.wikipedia.org...


It has ALWAYS been said that stealth doesn't make a plane invisible, just really hard to see. So what if they have to fly around radar, they're also going to get in and hit targets that a conventional plane can't.

Some expert. Guess you read a book, and suddenly know it all.

[edit on 3/31/2006 by Zaphod58]

Do you have some special insight into other peoples mind, since you say "it was NOT a slip of the tongue!" ?? By the way this forum has not been very friendly nor has it followed its own rules. When I called a person a moron for doing a personal attack on me when he could no longer keep up with the truth, in another thread, I did not get a warning, I got a 500 point penalty, and THEN I got a warning, and it was my FIRST warning ever on the forum, AND I have only been here a couple of days, so you guys should maybe treat everyone EQUALLY in here? as far as I know, NOTHING happens to the people who do personal attacks on me, but maybe that's fine by you! However according to your rules, personal attacks are NOT fine and dandy!

Here are the rules in case someone needs a refreshing of their memory.

1) Notice:
When a new member violates the terms and conditions for the first known time, generaly an initial U2U warning will be given. This warning will be from a staff member and the word "NOTICE" will appear in the subject line. However, please be aware that this step may be bypassed for either repeat offenders, serious violations, or longer term members.

2) Warnings:
Staff has the ability to warn members. Each warning carries a 250 point penalty and lasts 72 hours. If a member receives more than 5 warnings, they cannot post until the first warning expires.


Is this consistent with what has been going on against me? NO! Not by a long shot!!

furthermore:

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

2d.) Forum Gangs: You will not engaged in an organized collaboration with other members to disrupt thread topics or interrupt the flow of normal collaborative discussion.


That is all I have to say about this. You just need to look at the three last posts by the guys here, zaphod and those guys, to notice that they are ganging up, and that they are not contributing at all, their posts are just filler, at least I am providing some useful facts! and I seem to be the only one doing it for the last 10 posts also!

the news from iran can't be trusted.

the only source is state cleansed hog wash.

what are they going to say "we test fired it and it didn't work." no they are going to say we are great, we are bad ass's, yadda, yadda, yadda.

they have no independent press to verify facts and claims that the "state run news" spouts. in fact i doubt very seriously that any news from iran would be released with out the governments white washing.

big deal. they have a bottle rocket that they bought from china

Dude Americans with 5 year old behavior?

That seems a bit over the top. But keep on hating brother! I am a good man, and if you want to make an opinion of everyone in my country then you are the one not showing the above five year old behavior. We all know what happens on this website. People from there own country or religion state something from a very skewed view, and try to back it up with a website. Then the other side calls them stupid.

Not to pick on Merhan, but to make a point. I think Merhan is proud of his country. Good for him!! I think Merhan pushes too much military, and we never hear what else he has to say that is great about his country. So I my opinion of him is he is militaristic, from what I see of him. But I bet he could talk about peaceful things. But why don't you? It isn't exciting or confrontational. And we can't call people five year olds in there behavior.

It gets kind of stupid sometimes when everyone bashes, but we put that little extra bit in our posts to be a bit smug. Like this here from me. Americans invented this cool thing called the internet. If you hate America and all things to do with it, stop using the internet.

Ok, sorry everyone, I got very carried away, I'm a hot-head, I won't do it again.

let's all be friends

It happens to all of us at one point or another on here. heh. It sort of happened to me earlier too, so I guess we're even.

OK, now that all of this is settled...
...lets focus on the topic of this thread, which is:


"Iran Tests Missile Able to Avoid Radar"

Can you stealth a warhead? Not sure however:

1) Can you hide its infrared signature? Doubt it
2) If Iran's state run news services issues a statement saying they can now target B-2's and shoo tthem down, would you believe it? What about the Easter bunny?

The proof as we say is in the pudding. No doubt they have a new missile, but the claims seem to be out of NK playbook IMHO.

Originally posted by FredT
Can you stealth a warhead? Not sure however:

1) Can you hide its infrared signature? Doubt it
2) If Iran's state run news services issues a statement saying they can now target B-2's and shoo tthem down, would you believe it? What about the Easter bunny?

The proof as we say is in the pudding. No doubt they have a new missile, but the claims seem to be out of NK playbook IMHO.

Yes you can stealth a warhead.
Yes you can hide its infrared signature.
It is a ground to ground missile, why do you make the B2 bombers a part of this?

Yes, you must have been reading the NK playbook, because you couldn't have been looking at any iranian claims.


Seems like everyone who speaks english wants to make fun of Iran, but it's not working when they don't bother to check that they are talking about something that Iran has even claimed to have. I like Iran, and they have 15 500 000 men who are fit for military service. What is the USA going to do? NEUTRON BOMB THEM? most likely yes, since they can't possibly fight them with conventional means.

[edit on 1/4/2006 by Aztecatl]

[edit on 1/4/2006 by Aztecatl]

I might as well elaborate a little further here. A stealth missile is not stealth during firing, because it has an enormously hot flame, which is easily picked up by satellite imagery. What it does have though, is a radar-deflecting or absorbing shape and/or coating of the warhead, and possibly the body also. which means that after the engine stops burning, the missile becomes stealth. Well, aside from the flame giving it off at launch and while burning, it is also radar-stealth during that period, but the USA has heat-sensing satellites as part of their ballistic missile shield, so they do pick up rocket flames, but when it turns off, there is no defense against a stealth missile, because the other part of the ballistic missile shield relies solely on RADAR. And so does any other radar system also. Besides, It can be VERY hard for an anti-missile missile, to shoot down its target, since I bet at least half the anti-missile missiles work on radar, and the other half works on heat. I told you I know this stuff.


[edit on 1/4/2006 by Aztecatl]

[edit on 1/4/2006 by Aztecatl]

Originally posted by iqonx
actually making a stealth aircraft isnt that difficult.

But making it fly certainly is. The rough profile that can make a plane less visible to radar is not very aerodynamic, so you've got to hammer out a good fly-by-wire system that will keep the plane stable.

Even then, what you end up with is a relatively slow, relatively hard to manuever aircraft with a fairly small payload. All well and good for hitting key targets to pave the way for an assault, but not worth the effort unless you've got something to offer as an encore.

Stealth by design is a thing of the past. RAM is where it's at now. The Russians have got radars that can detect a stealth, they just can't use it to target a weapon. As a matter of fact, it's fairly simple to set up a "trip wire" type of radar that will tell you when the planes are coming and roughly where, without giving you a perfect fix, by doing what the original British radars did in WWII- instead of relying on the bounce-back to the origin of the signal, you rely on the plane creating interference between two communicating radar beacons.

You scramble fighters and you take it down then. Any stealth that can't defend itself in air to air combat is going to be well on its way to becoming obsolete in no time flat.



It's all well and good to say that Iran can handle the carbon microfiber and RAM, but consider costs. How's Iran going to bankroll enough units to make a difference?

The reality of Iran's military situation is this: Israel and Turkey are the only powers in the region likely to give them a run for their money if it comes to blows, and Iran's situation is improving dramatically because they are obviously very serious and very ambitious. The last thing in the world they should be doing is jeopardizing that by getting into a fight with America, because they aren't ready yet.
If they can keep the peace, keep the right friends, and keep developing domestic defense industries (and in time, applying those industries to civilian use to establish themselves as tech exporters) they can have a very bright future and be the premier middle-eastern power.

The smart thing for them to do is to play down their nuclear ambitions by slowing down ballistic development, especially any ambition for MIRVs, and focus on conventional weapons for local conflicts, especially air defense and cruise missiles with which to defend the Persian Gulf. They should also pay close attention to the development of economical artillery rockets to develop an answer to the MLRS.

This would emphasize their non-belligerent ambitions while at the same time preparing them to fend off a US attack as long as it doesn't come too soon.

Developing technology that is obviously strategic/nuclear in nature is a bad idea at this time, even when you look at this from Iran's side.

I'm glad it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it's not good for their country.

Ive been keep patient to read through all your post. I have to say there is no doubt Iran do can develop cruise missile which maybe is low reflection since China detemine to help Iran as a weapon testing bad of anti-America.
Even no help from China, Iran also can develop some knids of cruising-missile since they have had some knids of supirior anti-ship missile. Remember an anti-ship missile is a cruising-missile in principle. As for avoiding Radar, which is a kind of vague definition, low-observable could be named avoiding radar, having multi-warhead also could be called avoiding radar, I think Iran define its missile is an avoiding-radar missile means that have mult-warhaed so even you can see that but you don't kknow you will be hit by which warhead accuratly.
On the other hand, if it is a ballistic missile, so-called having capability of avoid radar is meaningless, most of ballistic missile couldn't be tracked by radar while it moving beyond atmosphere. We should pay attention to Iran have already got some tech or even some cruising-missile from China or Rassia because China has developed cruising-missile for a long time but has no opptunity to test it in practice whereas Iran is a good field for this purpose to confrontate US weapon.

the missile probaly isnt that stealthy PAC 3 can detect low signature targets.

>>>>>>

www.fas.org...

>>

en.wikipedia.org...
www.army-technology.com...

THAAD is newer and has a much more powerfula nd andvanced radar. And the misisle uses a long wave IR seeker www.army-technology.com...
www.raytheon.com...

Originally posted by Aztecatl

Originally posted by Daedalus3
^^ Jeg kann ikke snakke norsk, takk.

What are you going on an on about?!And since when did that sub become a ballistic missile sub?

Neutron Bomb?!!

What are YOU going on about? If you didn't have anything reasonable to say, I am convinced that you are breaking the rules. I never said anything which you just said, and what about the neutron bombs? have you never heard of it? then maybe you shouldn't try to correct me on it.

I know what a neutron bomb is and I also KNOW that using it against Iran (or using its reference in thread which talks supposedly stealthy missiles) is lunacy if nothing else.
Since things have simmered down a bit over here I'm going to leave it at that.
And I tried to use a bit of your own language considering you are from Norway or at least that's what you're location says. Maybe you didn't see it.
Nobody's ganging up here on anybody, except maybe Mehran!! poor guy

Let's not use languages other than English, please. If this happens, I'll assume the poster is saying something that is bannable!

Play nicely, everyone. We can learn a lot when we all play nicely.

jeez its like you guys never heard of the cold war. remember how our experts said "there is no way russia will ever be able to catch up to us with nuclear technology" within a couple years they tested a nuclear weapon...then started to outdo us before we came up with the fission fusion fussion nuke.

simply put, we act like there are no such things as spies...and we are pretty naive to think that. yes it would be hard, but to brush it off as impossible would only make it that make more likely. i would like to remind you all that we almost definately have spies in our government/military just like every other country does. so dont immediately doubt there is no way a country can suddenly catch up. all they need are secrets from other countries and pulling it off first.

As was pointed out though, stealth is expensive. So even if someone stole the secrets to it having the money to build it in effective numbers is going to be a problem for most countries. I'm not saying that it's not possible that Iran built a stealth missile, but as was pointed out several times "avoiding radar" can mean many things, not just stealth.

hopefully IRAN doesnt build too many i mean it simply avoids radar not true stealth. probably stealth less tahn an F 117anyways still no match for the patriot,upcoming patriot replacement meads, or thaad. A stealth cruise missile with nukes wouldve been a better idea.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by urmomma158]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Let's not use languages other than English, please. If this happens, I'll assume the poster is saying something that is bannable!

Play nicely, everyone. We can learn a lot when we all play nicely.

Hookay.. All I said was "I cannot speak norweigien!, thank you"

Anyways on with the topic at hand..

Does China have (to our knowledge) cruise missiles with ranges beyond 1000km?
I get vague reports (which mention that shady Ukraine deal) of ranges between 400km to 1800km. Not very conclusive.

Here's a source which doesn't confirm anything:

www.globalsecurity.org...

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Does China have (to our knowledge) cruise missiles with ranges beyond 1000km?

The DH-10 has been suggested to be about 1,000-1,500km considering its size.



It was recently seen going to a arms show

Has anyone here ever even TOUCHED a real missile? I have...