Should Israel Divide Jerusalem???

Originally posted by Djarums

Originally posted by Deep_Blue
Gaza citezins and Westbank citezin cannot visit Jerusalem.

Got it

Outright lie. Go visit the holy Muslim sites in Jerusalem on a Friday and then come back and say that again. For someone who seemed to be posting intelligently and well researched it is tremendously disappointing to see you say something like that.

The Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem are controlled by a Muslim authority and are filled to capacity by Muslim visitors daily. This is of course in direct contrast to the Western Wall (Jewish Holy Site) that was turned into a public toilet/garbage dump when under Arab control until 1967.

Research is healthy.

See my last post in the previous page......

I know infinetly better than you about palestine because I live there.... And Yes it is impossible for me to visit Jerusalem.... .Have you got it yet???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


[edit on 31-3-2006 by Deep_Blue]

Originally posted by Djarums
I, an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen, have freely visited holy sites of all 3 religions the last time I was in Israel.

Prior to 1967 this was not possible. I don't understand what part of that is hard to accept.

The hard part is to beilieve your claim without a prove..

Prove it....

Prior to 1967 it was conflict ... prior to 1948 it was brittish occupation , prior to british occupation there were the Ottomans...
Now do your homework and resaerch If the Ottomans allowed visiting the city... and then come back to me...

[edit on 31-3-2006 by Deep_Blue]

WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

WE ARE HUMANS TOO!!!!

THEY STARTED THE WAR!!!!!!

AND WE GONNA FIGHT WITH THEM UNTIL THEY WILL UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE HUMANS TOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Legion 877 - I've been following this thread with interest.

Which side are you speaking up for here please ?.

im speaking from israeli side im living in israel
bilive me its very sad when buses expolodes and people dies
im serving in israeli army now special forses and belive me i saw too mutch death and blood and it hearts to me when people saya that we are no humans.

Deep_Blue, you know you can if you have an entry permit.
You also know that Israel allows entry from the territories, but you also know that there are good reasons why entries are temporarily closed or limited. You are knowledgable that the attacks upon the Israelis cause closures, but you are VERY aware that you can visit Jerusalem with an entry pewrmit that you can get daily - assuming nobody has blown up anybody, right?

Speaking of this, speaking of tightened movement, here is a prime reason why: www.haaretz.com...

Also, Legion, do not yell at us; do not use all caps. Please, if you can, contribute and not yell nothing. Maybe it would be wise to go for a walk.



[edit on 31-3-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

Originally posted by Legion877
im speaking from israeli side im living in israel
bilive me its very sad when buses expolodes and people dies
im serving in israeli army now special forses and belive me i saw too mutch death and blood and it hearts to me when people saya that we are no humans.

Thanks for answering Legion 877 - I can understand what you are talking about because we had some terrible bombings here in England last year and I know somebody who had to deal with the aftermath of that.

I am neutral in the Israel/Palestinian problem and as far as I am concerned you are all humans, although you both have extremists who always seem to get all the publicity, which is a shame.

These debates always bring out strong emotions on both sides because everyone always feels that they are right and are being treated unfairly.

It would be interesting if you could tell us what you see as a solution to this problem - from your point of view.

You have told us you are in the Israeli army so you must have some first hand views on this subject.

thank you very much for understanding me Jamesmickael

Answer to your question:I think that is only solution is bullding a wall on the border and get all the Palestinians out of the israel.

All i can tell you from the milatary view that israeli army is defending and gurding only we are not comming to assault Palestinians only if its really necacery!
im sorry for the mistakes just my english is not so good

Originally posted by Legion877
All i can tell you from the milatary view that israeli army is defending and gurding only we are not comming to assault Palestinians only if its really necacery!
im sorry for the mistakes just my english is not so good

You know history can sometimes be a terrible thing - you cannot change it you just have to live with it.

There seems to be no trust by either Israel or Palestine, both of you have suffered greatly in your past history.

When I look at a map of Israel and Palestine it looks so strange. The whole area is quite small but then you have Gaza Strip then Israel and then the West Bank, so Palestine can never be one country, it will always be separted by Isreal in the middle and there's not much that can be done about that unless the Palestinians in Gaza are moved to the West Bank and that cant happen it would be far too difficult.

What do you think should happen with Jerusalem ? Its a city which is so important to 3 religions ? Do you think that East Jerusalam can be the capital of Palestine?.

Israel shouldn't get anything. That land belonged to the Palestinians in the first place.

its reall y hard to say i dont know what going on in the politicals heads but what i think is you are right and jerusalem is really important for others religions.but we dont know whats going on in Palestinians heads may be giving them jerusalem is not gonna help and they will keep assaulting us,and im sure that that is what going to happen,as may be you heard Palestinians saying that they will not stop the terror until they will kill us all.and what do you think East Jerusalam can be the capital of Palestine?.

Originally posted by Redfield0738
Israel shouldn't get anything. That land belonged to the Palestinians in the first place.

redfield you are right but terror is not the way you think if they wiil get israel,they will stop im think they will just keep ataking other countries.

(mod edit to add quote tags)

[edit on 31-3-2006 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Deep_Blue

The hard part is to beilieve your claim without a prove..

Prove it....

I'm talking about the time it was under the control of Jordan.

Which part of the equation are you not understanding. I don't have to "prove" historical fact.

When the land was under the control of Jordan, the Western Wall was turned into a dump and Jews were not allowed there. Now, Israel controls Jerusalem and gives the Muslim Waqf full control over their holy sites.

I'm noticing an increasing trend in you ignoring facts and twisting things to further your own argument.

Most annoying.

Originally posted by Legion877
Palestinians saying that they will not stop the terror until they will kill us all.and what do you think East Jerusalam can be the capital of Palestine?.

Here in England we have something called the Freedom of Information Act.

That means that most private/government papers are released to the public 50 years after they were written, and I remember some years ago the papers from 1947 were released.

You know that Britain was responsible for Palestine until 1947 ? well these papers say that the British Government wanted to give the Jewish People a homeland of their own after the second world war. They had 2 options to choose from:

1. Was to give the Jewish people Palestine.

2. Was to give the Jewish people half of the country of Uganda in Africa.

Have you ever heard about this before ?

Of course they chose Palestine and the country was then renamed Israel.

You asked do I think that East Jerusalem should be given to the Palestinians.

I think Jerusalem is such an important City that it should be made an International City and run by somebody like the United Nations.

Jerusalam has to remain free for all religions to visit, Jewish,Muslims and Christians, the history of Jerusalem is so great and important that it must be treated as a special case and not have one religion in charge.

I think that is the only way forward.

Originally posted by donwhite
First, W/S, I think everyone understands that “seed” as used in this context is plural, and not one sperm cell.

Did you completely miss Galatians 3:16? It states as plainly as the nose on your face WHO the one single seed is. And I quote again:

Galatians 3:16 KJV
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:16 NIV
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

I'm not saying “I think I understand.” I'm saying there it is. There is no misinterpreting Galatians 3:16.

Originally posted by donwhite
Next, I’m at a loss what you meant by saying I should keep my eye on the Dome of the Rock Mosque. If there is a list, I think Muslims regard the Dome Mosque as #4 in Holy Sites, just behind the al Aqsa Mosque, which would be #3, if numbered.

What the muslims consider sacred has no bearing on this really. This must be and will be torn down, either by a 'terrorist' attack or a wrecking ball for the elite to rebuild a replica of some sort of Solomon's temple there to seat the antichrist for his short reign.

Originally posted by donwhite
I’d say it was NIV over KJV, 2 to zip!

Me to because of the fact that I don't speak native Old English.

Originally posted by donwhite
Let me say this, there was no deal with Hitler by or for the benefit of any Jewish person.

In no way can you deeply study the Rothschilds and come up with that assumption.

Originally posted by donwhite
You are wrong, W/S.

Yes, I've been wrong about many things and been forgiven of many. A simple one liner as above doesn't prove to me that in this case I'm wrong. I refuse to believe a lie. Show me the proof and I'll accept it.

Originally posted by donwhite
Q. W/S, who said, “There are 2 commandments; Love God with all your heart, and your fellow man as yourself?”

God did and wrote it in stone.

Would I show more love by clearly seeing the evil agenda and not trying to expose it? Would I be truly loving God with all my heart if I see the will of lucifer being carried out right under the masses noses, while refusing to say a word?

If I loved myself more than my fellow man, I wouldn't be here attempting to hover a magnifying glass over this situation when I know I have the ability.

Israel is not Palestine, and Palestine will never be Israel...........
Divide Jerusalem? It have been divided since ever ,it's not like it's gonna make a difference now.Jerusalem is for all religons, stop kicking people out . This is the Holy LAND. Which belongs to all beliefs... [Offensive Comment Removed]

Israel ? LOL.


Please keep it civil. Thank you.
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[edit on 31-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

You are knowledgable that the attacks upon the Israelis cause closures, but you are VERY aware that you can visit Jerusalem with an entry pewrmit that you can get daily - assuming nobody has blown up anybody, right?

Permit to enter our own home? Who the hell are we dealing with? Here we go again: What about Palestinians' security? Bombs?> tanks? was that all defence>?

Yes i learnd history in school i know what you are talking about.
have you ever heard about white books

there was times when British guys wanted to run from the mandate and they supported palestinians until the magdonald book i think you know that.


Jerusalam has to remain free for all religions to visit, Jewish,Muslims and Christians




may be it that what gonna happen cuze soon the government is gonna change

Originally posted by Djarums

Originally posted by Deep_Blue

The hard part is to beilieve your claim without a prove..

Prove it....

I'm talking about the time it was under the control of Jordan.

Which part of the equation are you not understanding. I don't have to "prove" historical fact.

When the land was under the control of Jordan, the Western Wall was turned into a dump and Jews were not allowed there. Now, Israel controls Jerusalem and gives the Muslim Waqf full control over their holy sites.

I'm noticing an increasing trend in you ignoring facts and twisting things to further your own argument.

Most annoying.

point to the place where I twisted facts... and which part I said made you annoyed...
BTW ... I didn't twist facts I said clearly :

Prior to 1967 it was conflict ... prior to 1948 it was brittish occupation , prior to british occupation there were the Ottomans...

What is the wrong with the above statement.

Jordan controlled the city for short period , in that period there was conflict and great instability. Do you expect tourists to visit field of war

now stop the type of argument : "Muslims are bad the West is Better" and try to be less biased

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Deep_Blue, you know you can if you have an entry permit.

Thomas

I know that I can go anywhere in Israel (even to their Nucclear Reactors) If I have the required permit papers.

But what you don't know that it is almost impossible to get permit to visit Jerusalem especially If you are from Gaza.

Also what you don't know that only Palestinians above the age 45 are allowed to visit Jerusalem. I am less than 45 so even If I get permission I will not be allowed in.

Now any excuse that justifies the savage and racist behavior of Israel Is invalid and unacceptable. I will not listen to any excuse that justifies violating Human Rights.




[edit on 1-4-2006 by Deep_Blue]