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Prayer and Heart Disease

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posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 02:23 PM
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I thought this was a very interesting article. I suppose it's about time someone produced a study on this. It appears my side of the debate was right, after all.


www.cnn.com...

~MFP




posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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Hey doc, I just said a prayer for you.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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I don't know why you think I would be offended by that...I don't have any problem with any person of any faith praying for anyone or anything. Please try to refrain from one-line, off topic posts. It really detracts from the thread and your credibility as a serious poster.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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It went like this. May you life be filled with peace, and your heart filled with love.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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If you're just going to post antagonizing comments and act like a child, I will have to complain to an admin. Please, can you allow for a discussion to occur here? I know you're just bitter because your last thread was debunked, but that's no reason to ruin other perfectly good, and RESEARCHED, threads.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:09 PM
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NEW YORK (AP) -- In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.


A quote from the link you started your thread with. Again, your on the attack. What is your side. Anger? Go ahead and complain to admin. But I won't take back my prayer for you. Nor will I sit back and let you publically make fun of us those who believe in prayer. Amen.

Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.

Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 30/3/2006 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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Remind me again where I attacked anyone? What part of the text you quoted attacks anyone? It summarizes the results of the study. I posted a link to peer reviewed, unbiased research and made a comment regarding the paper. I'm sorry you take offense to anything that challenges your own opinions, but the fact of the matter is that the study showed no health benefits due to prayer. Show me a study that proves otherwise.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:30 PM
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Might try reading the bible. The oldest book on the planet. Even older than the medical texts your study from. And we know that attitude has alot to do the healing capability, imagine what faith in God could accomplish. My beef is that the link you posted says that prayer might even hurt the healing process. Egotistical nonsense!



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:37 PM
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Might try reading the bible. The oldest book on the planet.

AHAHAHAHA! Religious scholar you are not. Have you ever heard of the Library of Alexandria? Full of books, some eastimate upwards of 70,000 books actually, and it was mostly destroyed 391 years BEFORE the supposed birth of Christ. And even before that, the Chinese are supposed to have written books on a primitive form of paper. Now, remind me what source you have that says the Bible is the oldest book on the planet? Because they are wrong.


My beef is that the link you posted says that prayer might even hurt the healing process. Egotistical nonsense!


That is not at all what the study is saying. It is showing that the disparity in patients is due to some source OTHER than prayer. Do you honestly think a scientist who is trying to show there is no link between prayer and treatment is going to try to show someone's spoken words somehow strike a patient down? The study was simply showing that there is no difference in a patient who is prayed for and one who isn't. It was a mere coincidence that those who suffered more consequences were in the prayer control group.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:57 PM
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The tora, the first form of the bible, is reported to be over 3000 years old.
I found this link supporting this.
www.hanefesh.com...



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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The bible is No the oldest book in the world people really need to get more educated about history I get tired about how lacking US history is.

Now I believe in power of prayer, not because I am religious but because when people get together and put their minds together is enough energy that can be use in appositive way.

Now sometimes the person that is been prayed upon may have mental blocks or feel unworthy of been better and that can cause a none desirable result.

Or when the prayer is monitored like in the test done people become more aware of what they are doing, perhaps that can cause a different mental out put.

But still prayer does help people get better and if not physically at least their souls feel better.



[edit on 30-3-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:04 PM
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BSdoc - I recall studies showing that some health problems are alleviated by prayer, while others are not.

Are you familiar with these studies? If so, do you have any alternate explanation? Ie., some diseases may respond while others do not?

BTW - I have a sneaky suspicion that the efficacy of prayer is contingent upon the spiritual power of the person praying.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:05 PM
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Your source backs up the Torah (please note the spelling for those of us of the Jewish persuasion), with religious based doctrine and dates.

Based on true, hard, scientific dating, the oldest written book in the world is this one:news.bbc.co.uk...

Obviously, you are referring to oldest as in longevity, but, until I see historical/archaeological data to back up your religious stance, I'm afraid the Torah is not that old. Also, I hate to break it to you, but many of us who grew up in synagogues can vouch for the fact that the Torah is believed to have been first written in about 500 BC.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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Please try to refrain from one-line, off topic posts. It really detracts from the thread and your credibility as a serious poster.


Med student...this whole thread makes one question your credibility! You post a thread about prayer like you find it humorous and you thus, offend people. But of course you've been offending people since you starting hanging around here.....



AHAHAHAHA! Religious scholar you are not.


What is this? Is this productive behavior or childish behavior? Have you gone through psychiatry training yet? AHAHAHAHA? Is this how a supposed well educated gentleman conducts himself?


[edit on 30-3-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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If I may post on-topic, I had a heart attack in 93, and when I realized that my heart had 'attacked me because of my negative behavior, I do not call them heart attacks anymore, I refer to them as 'negative thinking attacks'.
IF a person can 'face' their recent thinking and attitude, then it will heal itself IMO,BTW, my higher power I have to thank for giving me this outlook.
A heart attack feels as if an elephant is sitting on your chest.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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I know which studies you're talking about, Sofi, but I can't find them! I wish I could. I know exactly what you're talking about. I think a LOT of the "power of prayer" has to do with alleviating a person's state of mind when faced with a chronic or acute illness, moreso than any sort of divine intervention. I think a person who prays and is being prayed for has some sort of "I can beat this" mentality that some others may not, which could subconciously encourage them to make better health choices due to the fact that they anticipate living longer, whereas a person who thinks they are going to die soon may not heed the doctor's advice about diet and exercise.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:10 PM
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Excitable, please read my post just above this one. I did not mean to make myself come across as poking fun at prayer. I just think it has a non-spiritual effect on people, not some sort of beacon to God who then steps in and helps. I'm sorry the context of those remarks were taken that way.

Also, yes, my "Ahahaha" comment was a bit brash, but honestly, have you read stompk's threads? He comes on here and tries to convince people that there is sulfuric acid in onions and that eating tons of raw onions cures cancer. Honestly.

Nice to see you posting again, by the way. It's been a while since I've seen a post of yours. And it's "gentlewoman", not "gentleman", but I'll let it slide, heh.

~MFP



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Tons of raw onions? 1/4 of an onion a day, followed by salt water. Get it right, if your going to use my name.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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bsl4doc

I agree that the power of prayer may work for some but not because of divine intervention but more the state of mind of the person that is in need.

If is something I discovered after two surgeries is that I was in control of my recuperation and it was nothing that anybody could do for me but it was all about me and my desire to get better.

Stompk, I thing you made your point now get over it.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 05:09 PM
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Found an interesting article about a woman in Florida who alledgedly received a miraculous cure through prayer:



On May 5, 1995, NBC-TV's "Unsolved Mysteries" featured a Fort Lauderdale, Florida, woman who, a few years ago, allegedly experienced a "miraculous" healing, through prayer, of a breast lesion suspected of being cancerous. According to program host Robert Stack, on Friday, December 1, 1991 (Friday was actually November 29), 42-year-old K. B. (she was actually 44) underwent an ultrasound/sonogram "confirm[ing] a large lump in her right breast. [Her] doctors fear the worst -- cancer. She was directed to come back on Monday for a biopsy, and possible mastectomy." A mammogram performed on the same Friday was also said to reveal a suspicious "lump."

K. B., says Stack, "had read about the power of prayer and meditation." She then appears in person on the program to explain how she "concentrat[ed] my whole weekend on healing. . . . I [asked] God to heal me. . . . I just heard a still, small voice in my head, just like you read about in the books. I felt the peace that passes all understanding. . . . The [fear and] anxiety went away. I became very convinced that I was healed."

On the following Monday, another mammogram was performed "just prior to her [scheduled] biopsy. . . . K. B.'s doctor was dumbfounded," says Stack. The suspicious spot was gone. "He was cautious, and wanted to conduct the biopsy anyway [but] K. B. was adamant -- she was going home." Says K. B., "I [told] all the nurses . . . 'I'm healed. . . . This is an early Christmas present from God.'" And her follow-up exams have been normal ever since.

source: atheism.about.com.../XJ&sdn=atheism&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.aol.com%2Fgarypos%2FMiraculous_Cure.html


also:



Dr. Larry Dossey, author of "Healing Words: The Power of Prayer and the Practice of Medicine".......claims on the show that "currently there are over 130 studies" scientifically establishing the efficacy of prayer in healing.


Faith? The power of positive thinking? Personally, I think there is too much Godlessness in the world. And, unfortuately, most doctors think THEY are God and probably prefer not to have any competition from the real one!



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