NEWS: 700 Ton Explosive to Send Mushroom Cloud Over Vegas

The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and the Department of Defense are scheduled to detonate a 700-ton explosive charge during the first week of June at the Nevada Test Site. This detonation will be visible from Las Vegas in the form of a mushroom cloud.





Legal fight in the making? Nevada residents are probably concerned about what sort of chemical compounds they will be exposed to.

Anyone have an idea how they aim to transport this explosive in the future, considering a C-5 Galaxy's payload is 135 tons? This leads to me believe it's not 700 tons and is a new type of explosive or an advanced nuclear weapon.

DTRA-Defense Threat Reduction Agency

[edit on 3-30-2006 by Springer]



[edit on 30-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

[edit on 3-30-2006 by Springer]

Yay,

I'm going to glow...

-ADHD

They would never test a advanced nuclear weapon above ground and publicly. That would be breaking any number of international agreements. Testing nuclear weapons has been banned for years.

There is no treaty preventing you from testing a large amount of convential explosives.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
There is no treaty preventing you from testing a large amount of convential explosives.

I suppose it's a way to get around the treaty using conventionial explosives to aid in computer modeling and seismic studies for nuclear warheads.

Sure isn't a battlefield weapon with that kind of tonnage.

General John M. Shalikashvili (USA, ret.)
Special Advisor to the President and the Secretary
of State for the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty

It would not be in our security interest to assign a high profile role to nuclear weapons in the U.S. military posture. Better that they remain in the background, for if the world's strongest conventional power needed new types of nuclear weapons, other nations would have even more incentive to acquire them. Any activities that erode the firebreak between nuclear and conventional weapons or that encourage the use of nuclear weapons for purposes that are not strategic and deterrent in nature would undermine the advantage that we derive from overwhelming conventional superiority. fas.org

So much for Shalikashvili's advice. Got nukes?

"Given the level of contamination in areas where nuclear tests were conducted, I have real concerns about the dust and other pollutants that will be released into the air as a result of this explosion," Berkley said in a statement.

I wonder how Nevada residents and those downwind think about the possibility of the explosion stirring up old nuclear test radioactive fallout?


Come to Vegas! What's nuked in Nevada glows in Vegas.
We love the smell of napalm in the morning and fallout on our food.



[edit on 30-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

Perhaps it's an advanced form of a 'nuclear' weapon that doesn't release radiation, rendering russian radiation detectors for nuclear explosions ineffective. By notifying the Russians that we are "exploding conventional munitions" and the lack of any radiation, we're covering our butts while still being able to test nuclear arms.

There is zero reason to speculate that this is a nuclear bomb. America would have no reason to test such a thing. Nor would they get away with it. Period.

The timing of the test is pretty damn obvious. It's a message to Iran.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
There is zero reason to speculate that this is a nuclear bomb.

The timing of the test is pretty damn obvious. It's a message to Iran.

with that idea in mind,
and the role that the USA plays in world affairs,

i might make more sense that the 700 tonne explosion
is actually 5 seperate 132 tonne bombs, timed & calibrated to
give a seismic signature of a single detonation.
which will give pause to Irani adventurism-
and add to Iran's perplexity in their decision to go forward in their current nuclear enrichment programme....

Iran, having knowledge that the USA can only deliver 132 tonne bombs,
and believing that the USA will not use nuclear bombs in a first strike...
it should take Iran several months to determine if
the USA does indeed have a non-nuclear, 700 tonne device
which is theoretically able to incapacitate Irans' underground nuclear facilities.

Disturbed Deliverer is right-on-the-money..................imho

Originally posted by St Udio
which will give pause to Irani adventurism-
and add to Iran's perplexity in their decision to go forward in their current nuclear enrichment programme..

Or Iran decides to demonstrate their own psuedo-nuke or real nuke test as in a show of force. Considering Iran has yet to back down to threats, we are more apt to provoke them than scare them.

•Iran plans 'war games'
•Iran rejects UN deadline for halting nuclear programme

Mushroom clouds don't mean nukes, so I have very little notion that it is a nuclear weapon. Any LARGE explosion gives a mushroom cloud.

To the best of my understanding of how nukes work, it would be impossible for any known type of nuclear weapon to be modified so as not to create detectable radiation.

Fission weapons require free neutrons to create a chain reaction, therefore you get a large burst of gamma radiation from them.

Fusion weapons are typically initiated by fission explosions, because immense heat and pressure must be generated, and to do this efficiently requires not just any fission explosion, but a specially engineered one.

You must set off a fission explosion at the core of a "hollow tube" if you will of fusable material, and then reflect the energy of this blast back inward against the center of the device again. This is complicated.

So stage 1 of a fusion bomb is to make a long cylinder of plutonium go critical. Since the cylinder is an enefficient shape, you can't set this off by conventional means. So we have to go back and add a step 0.

Step 0 is to set of a normal fission reaction somewhere outside of the actual fusion device- in one end of the bomb. The use of neutron reflective casings will "bounce" the resulting neutrons from this explosion into the rod of plutonium, setting it all off very efficiently, since the chain reaction is already in progress and the fission is starting from outside moving in, thus making step 1 possible.

Step 2 is for the fission explosion of step 1 to heat and compress the deuterium and lithium that are going to fuse (actually, free neutrons are going to transmutate lithium into tritium- true lithium won't do it). To accomplish this, around the plutonium rod is a layer of lithium deuteride, and around that is a heavy-metal casing, usually 238, which will do several things. A. It will begin to expand- every action yields an equal and opposite reaction, so the outward pressure on this layer will create inward pressure on the lithium deuteride. B. You guessed it, some of that uranium will go critical- not very efficiently. The pressure and heat will then cause fusion.

But with all this fission going on to make that possible, you run into the same problem as before- Gamma radiation.


Fusion weapons, as understood, use gamma radiation from a fission reaction to fuse lithium and deuterium.

Of course, on top of that, fission weapons release heavy radio-active isotopes which will linger and radiate after the initial explosion.

For this to be a top secret non-radiating nuclear weapon would require one of two things, the first of which is almost certainly impossible.

1. Find a fissile material which splits into two perfectly stable elements without releasing any free neutrons, and find a way to spontaneously split it all at once with 100% efficiency. This would require a very compact device for the production of gamma rays, and a 100% effective reflector that keeps them from escaping the weapon before detonation. To my knowledge, no such element exists, or likely can exist, and nor does the miracle device to detonate it without a chain reaction.

2. Find a way to create fusion from a conventional explosion. If I understand correctly, this is what a Red Mercury bomb is supposed to do, if any such thing even really exists. Even still, I think you need the "wonder gadget" to bombard the "mercury" (it's probably not mercury any more than "tube alloys" were really alloy tubes) with radiation from a small, highly efficient, non fissile source.


All of that renders the nuke angle HIGHLY improbable.

It is more likely in my humble opinion that this is some kind of blast engineering experiment to be applied to nukes, but not using nukes in the tests.

Even more likely perhaps is that we're experimenting with large conventional payloads for ballistic missiles, perhaps with the idea that we could use them to thoroughly destroy/neutralize WMD without the stigma of using nuclear weapons.

In either case, but especially the second, this is basically the US cracking it's knuckles and glaring at Iran.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
There is zero reason to speculate that this is a nuclear bomb. America would have no reason to test such a thing.

Wrong.

Nuclear Posture Review

Mini-Nukes on US Agenda

Busk OK's new nuke plan

Building a Better Bomb

and...

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
That would be breaking any number of international agreements.

Sorry but that's a joke.

It's never stopped the US before: ATS: Treaty Violations and Trade Disputes

The timing is interesting and Iran is definitely a factor for the public muscle flexing. I guess it's not just "crazy dictators" and "backward countries" that do this sort of thing after all.
.

Wrong.

Nuclear Posture Review

Mini-Nukes on US Agenda

Busk OK's new nuke plan

Building a Better Bomb

Irrelevent. None of this has anything at all to do with testing a 700 ton explosive/nuke. It's empty, foolish rhetoric on your part.

Or Iran decides to demonstrate their own psuedo-nuke or real nuke test as in a show of force. Considering Iran has yet to back down to threats, we are more apt to provoke them than scare them.

That's stupid. Iran can't scare anyone. Their shows of force are, at best, to try and reassure their own people. They know, and America knows just how impotent their ability to respond truly is.

The very fact that those pathetic little wargames are the best they can come up with only goes to show their weakness. They have no way of testing nukes, as they are years away from even being able to produce them.

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Disturbed Deliverer]

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Irrelevent. None of this has anything at all to do with testing a 700 ton explosive/nuke. It's empty, foolish rhetoric on your part.

WOW!!!

You read all 4 of those threads and articles in less than a minute!
You're a genius!

Who's spouting the rhetoric?
.

The US has made their intentions to build and test mini-nukes clear to the world. There is room to speculate about this test explosion being a part of that agenda!
.

[edit on 3/30/2006 by Gools]

You read all that in less than a minute!
Your a genius!

I don't need to read much on America looking to build mini-nukes, a topic I've heard/read about plenty in the past. But, please, if you can find a connection in those articles to this huge blast, explain...

Originally posted by Gools

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
That would be breaking any number of international agreements.

Sorry but that's a joke.

.

Nah ,whats stupid is to think they would test a new secret nuclear weapon like this above ground and publicly. China and Russia arent stupid theres a very good chance they would know whats going on in any overt operation like this.

Theres no way any nuclear weapon wouldnt produce any detectable raidiation. Even a hypothetical "pure fusion" weapon would produce a large dose of deadly neutrons though they would be short lived compared to normal nuclear weapons.

People just hear mushroom cload and think nuke any large explostion will create one even a Volcano can do it.

I wasn't implying that just because there is a mushroom cloud that it's nuclear, thought never even crossed my mind. But perhaps it's simply a new type of weapon that uses high caliber explosions, or perhaps a yet unreleased type of reaction that creatres tremendous force without emitting radiation.

As a side note. Is there any reason besides politics for the publicity of this event? How many people outside the military and in the immediate residency of Nevada knew about the Trinity test? Even though satilitte technology was non-existant in the 1940s, was there worry that testing above ground on American soil would clue America's WWII enemies in to their new kind of weapon?

I know that a large explosion of any kind can create a mushroom cloud.

I guess people here feel that if it's not nuclear then the bigger the better eh?

Heck, let's drop two on Tehran cuz... you know... their only "conventional" explosives. No foreseable "collateral damage" with those. No problems whatsoever...

There is no hope for the world. :shk:
.

Which all points to this being a ploy to intimidate Iran. There would be zero need to make this public.

I guess people here feel that if it's not nuclear then the bigger the better eh?

Besides those insinuating that this was a nuke, there were no undertones of an agenda from any posters in this topic.

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Disturbed Deliverer]

It's pretty much a matter of record that the US is interested in developing new nuclear weapons, so irrelevant Gools is not.

Wrong... possibly. Irrelevant? I fail to see how. The US has said it's going to drop a very very large weapon and that there will be a mushroom cloud, when everyone knows this administration has advocated development of new nuclear devices.

I don't believe there is any way to construct a nuclear weapon that cannot be detected as such, therefore I believe that either this is a bold-faced lie being told in hopes that Americans won't hear from foreign sources, a test of an aboslutely REVOLUTIONARY device which would be better conducted in secret, or if neither of the above, just a really really big conventional explosive.

There is PLENTY of reason to initially speculate that it's a nuke. There's just not much hope of that speculation being correct. Does anyone know if we're in line with any time table for America's proposed nuclear developments?

I stress once again though, although I'm being open-minded, that I don't understand how it is scientifically possible for this to be an undetectable nuke, so the options are really 1. That they are just not going too far out of their way to hide a nuclear test from anyone but average people. or 2. That it's not a nuke.

I do still favor option 2 unless I've missed something on the physics that somebody could explain in layman's terms.

Wrong... possibly. Irrelevant? I fail to see how. The US has said it's going to drop a very very large weapon and that there will be a mushroom cloud, when everyone knows this administration has advocated development of new nuclear devices.

The timing of the event, and the publicity all point to this being politically driven more than anything, first.

What actually purpose would America have for a larger nuclear bomb? When has the Bush administration proposed such a thing? More to the point, even tactical nukes are useless as America would not be able to use them on Iran and be able to justify it politically.

America does have a whole lot of desire to get a massive conventional bomb, though. One that could pentrate the bunkers seen in Iran and North Korea.

Where might one test a 700 ton explosive device in secret?

Any radiation resulting from the Nevada explosion would be explained as resulting from "disturbed" dust from previous nuclear testing, wouldn't it? In fact, it was - just above.

BTW - YEAH GOOLS!

Wotta guy. You too Vagabond.


Oh yeah. Great post regenmacher.

[edit on 30-3-2006 by soficrow]