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The Cocaine Mummies

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posted on Mar, 29 2006 @ 11:29 PM
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I'm surprised I didn't find this in a search on the forum.

Analysis of hair on mummies has shown the presense of coc aine in the hair of Egyptian mummies from 3000+ years ago. The problem is: Cocaine is only found in South America!

Botanists can show no evidence for coc aine being grown in that hemisphere.
Even if international trade was possible, how could it be that the reed boats of the time could traverse an ocean and load up with several ton of cocoa leaf?

One of the original articles is posted here:
American Drugs Found In Egyptian Mummies

In addition to coc aine, nicotine was also found. However, that can be found in ethiopea but not in the concentrations found in the mummy. That is indicative only of the tobacco plant.




posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Ive also read up on the coc aine mummies...very interesting...my take on it is that history is all wrong...people from china were in north and south america and australia!...the vikings were in north america long before columbus...and it has been shown that the polynesian boats could be sailed all the way across the pacific ocean if neccesary...whats to stop some adventurous egyptian from sailing around and finding the new world?They certainly had the science and resources...this is just one more peice of evidence showing that the ancients were far more capable then we give them credit for in modern times...and just maybe thats the secret of the pyramid builders...they were so coked up they whipped it up in 20 years! lol

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Doppel]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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Actually this has been discussed before and most here as well as in the Archeology communitee beleive that the coc aine that was found in a couple of mummies is actually from contamination after the mummies had been recovered and while they were in storage.
Our resident expert on these matters, Byrd, has a pretty good post from an earlier thread that may answer some of your questions.
www.abovetopsecret.com... nglepost=1202397
Edited to add Byrd's name Have to give credit to her!

[edit on 30-3-2006 by kenshiro2012]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 09:16 AM
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Coked-up jewish slaves built the pyramids. Fantastic....


Any how, I'd postulate that trans-atlantic travel has existed for much longer than we are willing to admit. I feel that evidence of even greek knowledge of the western hemisphere and the land there can be seen in the Odyssey, by Homer.


At one point during the tale, Odysseus and his men steer his ship through the 'pillars of hades' or some such nonsense, a clear (in my mind) reference to the strait of Gibraltar. We know that the men tarried for some time here, Which to me indicates that they may have located any number of landmasses in the Atlantic, including but not limited to, The Azores, Newfoundland, or Iceland.

While many will say that this is a fictional account, and by all means, that's the accepted truth, but realize that The Odyssey is in fact an epic, and most epics are based on legends, or real-life events.


I also remember, some time ago, reading about the existence of extensive mining operations for copper and other semi-precious metals in the great lakes region, specifically UP Michigan, and Minnesota.

The story goes that there are several mine shafts that are reckoned to be quite old. And that, judging by their structure, were possibly built by Romans.

I remember hearing about a roman bust found somewhere in the American Southwest. I'm not too sure of the veracity of this claim, though. I'd be willing to do some research and get back to you with it.



EDIT: I came upon this website in my search for that roman bust. I found it, along with several other pieces of evidence supporting Asian contact with Mesoamerica, and Western north America, as early as 1125BC.

Prehistoric Seagoers


[edit on 3-30-2006 by Loki]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 09:48 AM
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hehe...I thought somebody would appreciate the coked up comment"but I didnt mention semetic slaves" total lack of evidence leading to slavery as the force behind the construction of the pyramids..actually I tend to think the opposite...workers were most likely paid and lived around the area with there families......there is much evidence of contact between the new and old worlds in history and prehistory....the contamination theory is a sound one but it does not cancel other evidence of egyptian contact with the new world.....some people beleive that the giant heads in south america are of african origin due to the facial features and similarities in early art...is it possible that africans settled in south america at the same time or before the migration of the clovis and other groups from the north?

quick afterthought: Were the archeologist at the sight known cokeheads? LOL

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Doppel]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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that is the pillars of "Hercules". I beleive south american coc aine is over in Egypt. See the egyptian carvings at the Marchauski plateau in Peru for one...

im with Doppel reed boats went all over the world in antiquity... mayan elders say they deposited 7 sacred magnetic energy sources all over the world in ancient times (russia egypt to name a few) and the world is slowly going back to the Mayan way of learning. Even to this day those places modern names are still in the Mayan tounque..

[edit on 30-3-2006 by mosca]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Loki
I also remember, some time ago, reading about the existence of extensive mining operations for copper and other semi-precious metals in the great lakes region, specifically UP Michigan, and Minnesota.

The story goes that there are several mine shafts that are reckoned to be quite old. And that, judging by their structure, were possibly built by Romans.

Loki,

I don't know about the Roman Bust, but I wouldn't use that Michigan copper as evidence of any ancient contacts with North America.

From www.ramtops.co.uk...


...Here at home however, popular books which are widely available and by all accounts financial successes, help to perpetuate the myths that stand for the truth about Michigan prehistory. These myths are dangerous for the following reasons:

1) They detract from the pressing need to preserve archaeological sites. Some of these publications announce that the sites are already destroyed (Sodders 1990:27-28), which is absolutely false. The trouble here is that the public may be persuaded to disregard important site protection issues based on wrong information.

2) They put people's energies into false hopes of splendid and snazzy discoveries (which encourages site looting) rather than into productive activity, such as training in excavation, analysis of artifacts, and site preservation and protection.

3) They're so sensational that people are liable to devalue the facts in favor of the fantasy. Archaeology gets a bad name when it takes away people's pet myths, even if they're irrational!

4) These authors overlook the requirements of science, particularly those about testing hypotheses objectively, yet offer speculations as though they were scientific fact. This failure to distinguish fact from fiction disadvantages people in a culture such as ours that prides itself in generating literacy but also succeeds in the generation of misinformation! Telling truth from myth is an important skill for citizenship, no matter what the subject.

Most of the myths take their 'truth' from mantra-like repetition rather than empirical evidence. In fact try as I have, it's often impossible to find the original sources of some of the ideas accepted as fact in these volumes! For example, when I read about the area in which I've lived and done fieldwork for twenty years, that being Houghton County, Michigan, I'm simply amazed! According to these books, there is evidence, everywhere, of Phoenicians, Bronze Age Europeans, and others sailing copper-laden flotillas from the Keweenaw home to the Old World! And I've apparently been asleep at the switch the whole time because I sure never found any such evidence!

I'd like today to point out some of the major elements of mis-statement and myth revealed in these books, and to suggest why they are fallacious, using current archaeological data about copper mining as counterpoint....

Go to the link to find out why.

The above appeared in "The Michigan Archaeologist" (a periodical) in 1995. The author, Susan R. Martin, is an archaeologist in Michigan that is well acquainted with these copper mines.

Harte






Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3/30/2006 by Majic]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
that the coc aine that was found in a couple of mummies is actually from contamination after the mummies had been recovered and while they were in storage.


I always found that explanation a bit strange. Do they expect us to believe people where doing coc aine on mummy bodies
or that someone purposely contaminated them with coc aine?

Im not saying that impossible crazier things have been done, but I personally find that a bit hard to swallow.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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While I would lean towards Byrds answer usually...
I think even byrd wasn't absolutley sure in this case...

as far as ability of ancient trade...
it is a fact that vikings made it to america from well before columbus, and there were better makers of boats, even back then.

If you think about it, boats haven't changed all that much... still the same basic form.

after traveling across the USA (took 2 days of almost straight driving)
I couldn't beleive that anyone ever did that by anything less than an airconditioned speedy automobile, and smooth highways

But people have done it with Model A's, horse drawn carraige, bicycle, and even walking...
so I can understand why it is hard to beleive that people in small boats would travel farther than the horizon, in years before maps and knowledge of what was there.
Those kind of geological restrictions haven't kept explorers at bay during our time, so why wouldn't they be as adventureous back then?



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 06:24 PM
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If an individual was sitting in a room where coc aine was used, residual coc aine can be found on everyone in that room - on the outside of the hair. Even if people came into that room a day after it was smoked.

The coc aine is found in the hair shaft.
This means it was consumed, or injected, or forced into the body prior to death.
Furthermore, the concentrations are several times over the lethal dose.
I have discussed this with my neuropharmacology professor. We postulate the high doses are for bacteriostatic mechanisms. Since the mummification process was sacred, none of this was ever written down, hence the lack of evidence.

Furthermore in a discussion of lab error, I have somewhere a study that has expanded beyond the original study in 150 or so mummies done by another lab - WITH THE SAME FINDINGS.

What this could mean is a MAJOR change in the historical record.
I'm a scientist, not a historian. It's time for the historians to step up.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 06:35 PM
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It is also well documented that the pharos and other Egyptian elite consumed many drugs such as opiates and hallucinogens. I believe all the drug consumption went hand in hand with the link to divinity. However, this can be explained since these drugs could be grown in that hemisphere.

Nicotine, while able to grown in nearby Ethiopia would require several ten thousands tons plant for the dose found in one mummy. Even with today’s chemical engineering in a clean room, with vented chemhoods, and pure solvents, this would be difficult. – whereas the concentration of nicotine can be easily extracted from tobacco.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by carlwfbird
Furthermore, the concentrations are several times over the lethal dose.


You have to take what people consider a "lethal dose" with a grain of salt. Many people that have done hard drugs for years can easily consume amounts that would kill the average person.

I have personally seen people with reported lethal blood alcohol levels. 0.40 is the accepted LD50," or lethal dose". Heavy drinkers can at least double that number. In extreme cases, individuals have survived BAC ratings as high as 0.914.

So its not impossible for some druggy Egyptian elite to survive doses we general consider fatal.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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Earlier I reported "several times the lethal dose" I should have reported roughly 6 times LD50. I know more about metabolitic tolerance of other substances, but I have never seen tolerances that go to the extreme of 6x LD50 - which is what is being reported in the hair shaft.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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There are some difference between coc aine and alcohol though I was just using it as a example. The lethal dose of Cocaine isnt even that well understood even though its been known about for thousands of years.

Deaths have occurred in doctors' offices with as little as 25 mg applied to the mucous membrane or the snorting of a single line in recreational use where the average dose of 1 line is 20-30 mg.

Yet most people consider anywhere from 500mg and 1.4 g as lethal dose for the average person. People that have been doing it for years can have vastly higher tolerances then that.



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 11:12 PM
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Getting The Shaft

It's not clear to me that the presence of high concentrations of coc aine or nicotine in hair shafts necessarily means these substances got there via metabolism or prior to death.

If these chemicals were used in mummification, it seems plausible to me that the high concentrations of them measured in the hair and tissue are a consequence of the embalming process.



posted on Mar, 31 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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anyone know if any coc aine was found in the caucasian mummies of the Canary Islands (Guanches) they had many pyramid and pottery similarities to South America and of all the mummifiers in the world they had the most similarities to mummification of Egypt.

But their writing was unlike anyone elses...



posted on Mar, 31 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Good point mosca something worth looking into
The Canary Islands would make a logical outpost for any trans-atlantic trade going on at the time.

I honestly dont know if they have ever even been tested for coc aine.

[edit on 31-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Mar, 31 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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The following are all summaries obtained from: A Primer of Drug Action by Robert Julien. Tenth edition. Chapter 7. While some of this is not necessarily pertinent to the mummies, it is relevant nonetheless.

It is generally accepted that a LD of coc aine is concidered to be toxic at 2 mg per kilogram of body weight and lethal above these doses. Thus a toxic dose for a 70kg individual would be 150mg. However this statistic is not reliable due to different methods of administration.

For the following, note the peak plasma levels for the various levels of administration. Anything that tops that level is considered an overdose.

Chewing a coca leaf has a purity of .5-1% coc aine. The average dose can be between 20 and 100mg. (200mg daily). Plasma levels peak at 150ng/ml as soon as 300 seconds after consumption. Of this 25% is absorbed by the body. This gives a high for 45-90 minutes. It is nearly impossible to overdose since one would need to have more than one could eat within a day.

Oral consumption of Cocaine hydrochloride (HCL) has a purity of 20-80% coc aine. The average dose is between 100-200mg. Plasma levels peak around 175ng/ml as soon as 600s after consumption. Of this 20-30% is absorbed by the body. This gives a high for 45-90 minutes. (SIDENOTE: The original formula for Coca-Cola had 60mg of coc aine per 8 ounce serving. It's effects would be under this category. It's lethal dose would be somewhat lower since combined effects with caffeine and sugar will have their own effect on the body)

Snorting Cocaine HCL has has a purity of 20-80% coc aine. The average dise is 25-100mg. Plasma levels peak at 150ng/ml as soon as 120 seconds after administration. Of this 20-30% is absorbed by the body. This gives a high that lasts 30-45 minutes.

Intravenous Cocaine HCL has a purity that varies. The average dose is around 25mg. Plasma levels peak between 300 to 400 ng/ml. 100% is absorbed by the body and acts within 30 seconds. This gives a high for 10-20 minutes. (if a dose of over 200mg is taken plasma peaks around 1500ng per ml followed by death)

Smoking the various forms of coc aine have purities between 40 (coca paste) to 100% (freebase) (crack has a purity of 50-95%). The plasma levels peak from 300-800ng/ml (data for crack is unknown). The onset is as soon as 8 seconds. The duration of the high is between 5 to ten minutes.

As for the earlier statement based on deaths
Cocaine at low doses:
Cocaine is rapidly broken down by esterases (enzymes) in the blood and liver. A person with a genetic deficiency leaves them with little or no esterases (this condition is rare). Such a person will die from a low exposure to small amounts (20 mg) of coc aine. Since it is rare, this does not make up a large part of the LD50

Finally, This site acknowledges that it is already known that south american mummies consumed coc aine.



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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To the best of my knowledge, only one study has been done that shows this. The mummies were not restudied by other labs, and studies of other mummies have showed no such contamination.

www.straightdope.com...

A very balanced article from the Fortean Times (and note the PS that the lab that confirmed the results apparently doesn't exist):
www.forteantimes.com...



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
Getting The Shaft

It's not clear to me that the presence of high concentrations of coc aine or nicotine in hair shafts necessarily means these substances got there via metabolism or prior to death.

If these chemicals were used in mummification, it seems plausible to me that the high concentrations of them measured in the hair and tissue are a consequence of the embalming process.


Well, maybe, but the question remains, how'd they get there in the first place?

Here's a quote from, and a link to, another story on this. Apparently, if true anyway, this "problem" is much larger than I had previously known or was led to believe:



...But if tobacco from Mexico or coca from the Andes was carried across an ocean, it apparently need not have been the Atlantic. According to Alice Kehoe, a number of other American plants mysteriously turn up outside the "sealed" continent. But they are found on the other side of the Pacific.

PROF ALICE KEHOE - Anthropologist, Marquette University:
"The one that absolutely proves trans-pacific vaoyaging is the sweet potato. There are also discoveries of peanuts more than 2,000 years ago in western China. There is a temple is southern India that has sculptures of goddesses holding what looks like ears of maize or corn."

NARRATOR:
And if American maize might have got as far as India, why couldn't tobacco or coca have reached Egypt? They could have come across the Pacific to China or Asia and then overland to Africa. The Egyptians need not have travelled to America at all, or known where the plants had originated, but could have got them indirectly, through a network of world trade. But any ancient trade route that includes America is unacceptable in archeology.
My emphasis.
Source: www.druglibrary.org...

What about it Byrd? I mean, what about this Far East idea, with the sweet potatoes and peanuts? Anything there?

Harte



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