Killing Babies, Compassionately (part II)

AT LAST A HIGH GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL in Europe got up the nerve to chastise the Dutch government for preparing to legalize infant euthanasia. Italy's Parliamentary Affairs minister, Carlo Giovanardi, said during a radio debate: "Nazi legislation and Hitler's ideas are reemerging in Europe via Dutch euthanasia laws and the debate on how to kill ill children."

Unsurprisingly, the Dutch, ever prickly about international criticism of their peculiar institution, were outraged. Giovanardi's critique cut so deeply that even Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende felt the need to respond, sniffing, "This [Giovanardi's assertion] is scandalous and unacceptable. This is not the way to get along in Europe."

As is often the case in the New Europe, what is said matters more than what is done. Thus, the prime minister of the Netherlands thinks that killing babies because they are born with terminal or seriously disabling conditions is not a scandal, but daring to point out accurately that German doctors did the same during World War II, is.

Story

Finally it is the Italians that see this evil fo what it is............a reminder the 'doctors" that murdered babies for being disabled in WWII got "hung" after the war.

I love it when non-Europeans jump into European politics and act like they know what they are talking about .

Carlo Giovanardi is a district deputy in Lecco, he is not, by any means, a mouthpiece of the Italian government as a whole. He is a member of the Christian Democratic Centre, so of COURSE he's gonig to side against anything even resembling abortion.

Try finding a good, secular view point, Thermo, instead of another religious one. Perhaps a medical study showing this infant wasn't in pain, or something that is outside of religion?

~MFP

[edit on 3/29/2006 by bsl4doc]

Have you ever read A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift?

It's a short article, and gives me a few ideas.

thermo:

I can't imagine why you wanted to resurrect this thread except to tick people off all over again. Are you one of those people who thrives in contentious environments?

Beating this subject to death isn't going to bring back the baby or influence Holland's laws about it.

Give it a rest.

So doc, are you telling us a Christian's opinion on life and death issues is NOT VALID because they are a Christian?

That's what your post reads like.

That you can discount the opinion of a European, recalling how the horrors of Nazi Death and Human (Eugenics) Experimentation camps in Europe started, BECAUSE he is also a Christian, is...

How about I stop here before I list all the reasons all your posts have convinced me your opinions are poison.

Please people, read both pages of the link to the full story in Thermopolis first post. When someone excludes facts and details like those from concideration because they are presented by a Christian, you have to seriously wonder about the character and agenda of that person.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
So doc, are you telling us a Christian's opinion on life and death issues is NOT VALID because they are a Christian?

I think its pretty obvious that he is saying that its not the

thermopolis
a reminder the 'doctors" that murdered babies for being disabled

These children aren't disabled, they're terminal, won't live for very long, and are in horrendous pain.

Therm, give it up man...just give it up. We all understand how you feel. We all know where you stand. I seriously doubt that starting arguments on a conspiracy site is going to change anyones mind, or influence the world. Stop wasting server space.

So doc, are you telling us a Christian's opinion on life and death issues is NOT VALID because they are a Christian?

That's what your post reads like.

That you can discount the opinion of a European, recalling how the horrors of Nazi Death and Human (Eugenics) Experimentation camps in Europe started, BECAUSE he is also a Christian, is...

How about I stop here before I list all the reasons all your posts have convinced me your opinions are poison.

Please people, read both pages of the link to the full story in Thermopolis first post. When someone excludes facts and details like those from concideration because they are presented by a Christian, you have to seriously wonder about the character and agenda of that person.

No, I'm discrediting Giovanardi's opinion because he is a small time political mafioso who few trust or agree with. He is a radical member of a radical party, and the only reason he is getting media attention is because one of his common tirade's is about a major European issue this time. It would be like me using your own Senator Delay as a shining example of clarity in American morality. See how I can take a politician I know only a little about and try to use him as a focal point for American politics? That's what the media is trying to do with Giovanardi.

~MFP

Yes Thermo, you wouldn't want to be one of those people who fans international outrage to the same high profile level that stopped Free Speech, Western, Democratic Countries printing cartoons.

Surely not over something as unimportant as doctors killing babies without telling their parents, because these compassionate doctors decide the baby's life is worthless.

Ras, are you thinking we should eat these babies or the doctors and officials who who demand the right to kill them?
If you want to know how to make human skin gloves, you could ask my mother. She saw how they did it during WW2 but they didn't bother killing them first.
Just pray that the next time your unjustly locked up without any rights it's not next door to a Soilent Green factory.

And Nygden, did you read both pages of Thermo's link? It's a much worse situation than the one story bsl4doc and other keep hammering to make it sound all compassionate.

doc, how does "Christian" describe your updated excuse for invalidating this man's views? I thought we were supposed to associate Catholics with the marfia, not Christians.

So what is it, religion or politics that inspires this man to say these thing?
Is it even possible for you to concede his opinion is based purely on the ugly details in Thermos link, that all here don't seem to want mentioned?

Your statement: !. Austrailia may well be a promiss land. I really want to visit.
2. "I am a realist. I believe in God"
Lets take a look at that one. It could very well mean that you don't really believe in God but in the USA with our current atmosphere of thumperism and a Congress infested with airheads and a White House inhabited by near morons it is safe only to profess a public claim to believe in a particular deity.
Do you believe in God? Ans. No. but let's be realistic here, do I want anybody to know that I don't? I may want a government contract at some point.
See what I mean? Your statement could be interpreted that way.
Otherwise you might be found delusional as the existance of a deity has never been proven. Such a concept appears to be the result of the reasoning process of stone age peoples. Not a thought process we would want to use to make a decission involving anything dangerous that when we make the wrong assumption such thing might harm us.
Example. You want to kill mildew in your bathroom and make the black stuff go away?
Amonia will kill mildew immediately. Bleach will make the black stuff go away.
So, first lets us pray then let us mix the two chemicals, close the door to prevent the smell from wafting about the house and scrub those walls with the mixture.
Voila! mildew dead and black stuff gone. Who needs science or knowledge? Hell! We might even live to see the results of our work.
Funeral arrangements to be announced by the family.
sayswho (slep by any other name)

So It is so much more important to tell people killing babies is just, kind, sane and obviously the right thing to do because the only people who want to question it's down side are those crazy Christians.

Yep, the opinion of those who don't want anyone talking about it ever, because there are no more issues to discuss, have the intellectual, ethical and moral high ground all the way.

Are you aware how powerfull group dynamics are. Perfectly sane, kind, normal people can easily be led to kill innocent people because "the group" say it's 'right' to do so.

But lets not discuss that either. It's not important in any way.

It really make me laugh when I am accused of being (gasp) a a a Christian! I am no christian...........It is HUMAN to protect the innocent from a horrible senseless death.

The god of abraham is my god and Jesus is his son. Christ serves HIS father as do I. I also serve christ. It is OK to be angry at the planet as christ was at the money changers defiling the temple. Too many TV churches are money changers...........

Injustice is still worth fighting. Murdering babies is about as bad as it gets. Baal required live human babies thrown into the fires.

Are we no better off 6000 years latter? Still killing babies.........

Originally posted by thermopolis
It really make me laugh when I am accused of being (gasp) a a a Christian! I am no christian...........It is HUMAN to protect the innocent from a horrible senseless death.

The god of abraham is my god and Jesus is his son. Christ serves HIS father as do I. I also serve christ. It is OK to be angry at the planet as christ was at the money changers defiling the temple. Too many TV churches are money changers...........

Injustice is still worth fighting. Murdering babies is about as bad as it gets. Baal required live human babies thrown into the fires.

Are we no better off 6000 years latter? Still killing babies.........

Untill I joined ATS, I also explained my faith rather than apply the word Christian to it but for brevities sake I now call myself Christian in between explainations.

Do any of those, 'sit down, shut up, listen and give us all your money, churches', ever remind folk that sometimes you need a little rightious indignation to motivate you to DO JUSTICE, as Christ so clearly required?

The life long, human instinct, that any form of child sacrifice, under any name or 'justification', is just plain wrong, was one of the many core elements of my character that lead me to finally accepting that though in the world, I was called out from it's ways.

Saddly describing yourself as 'called out by God' has even more negative examples of those who mis-apply what it means. You can see why He will give us a new, pure language, when He returns to rule.

Untill then, 'the Bable effect' will keep many from understanding the simple statement, "Killing babies is wrong."