Everybody in the USA moves to Mexico (government and all). Everybody in Mexico moves to the USA (government and all). Then we Americans turn Mexico into a lush, luxurious, tropical paradise with beautiful clean cities, brand new everything, turn the economy over, turn Mexico into a world power..........

....and watch the USA go under.
LOL!

teh other day i was in L.A. and i was like: OMG im it looks ilke teh Mexico!!1
joke aside,

I understand people need something to worry about, to look for or just someone to hate but you guys make me laugh especially the teen-racist-i-have-no-real-opinion-on-things-so-i-just-write-first-crap-i-think-of, and the other guy talking about "respectful immigrants", so italian mafia is respectful?.
Also the one stating that: "whites and blacks will ally and shoot hispanics" ahahahha, yeah right, whites and blacks allied..
CAPT PROTON may be totally right, his theory sounds very probable.

Finally, I just want to tell people in US that people in my country people may not know what the official name of Mexico is, may not know who was our president 20 years ago, may not know who Benito Juarez was, but EVERYONE knows US stole Mexico´s land, that being said, every illegal alien that goes to the US, besides the idea of working, they go thinking on recovering what was ours.

Yes, in 30 years you will be full of hispanics, its been done many times before in history.

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Zeratul]

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Zeratul]

Originally posted by Kruel
The problem isn't immigration, or even illegals so much as it is all the big companies closing up shop in the US and moving their operations elsewhere (China, Mexico). But you can't blame them either, because if the government hadn't taxed the hell out of them in the first place, their factories would still be here.

I would say that this is a 'seperate' problem. One does not exclude the other............

If all the jobs were gone the illegals wouldn't be coming here!

Originally posted by Zeratul
...EVERYONE knows US stole Mexico´s land, that being said, every illegal alien that goes to the US, besides the idea of working, they go thinking on recovering what was ours.

#1
It was stolen mostly from the Native Northern Americans. Middle/Southern American tribes were blasted by Spaniards 500 years previously. Not the US.

Yes, in 30 years you will be full of hispanics, its been done many times before in history.

#2
When have the 'Hispanics' filled North America in history? 'Hispanic' implies Spanish blood, which their was none until about 500 years ago. Also, the Nothern Amerindians did a nice job of keeping the Central Amerindians at bay, so to speak, before the Europeans ever arrived. So where do you get your information, I'm confused...

#3
What's all this talk about race? True there are different ethnicities, but only one race, the Human Race. The only reason we look, talk, and think a tad bit differently is 30-40,000 years of migration, seperation, etc. That's it. Before the end of the Ice Age, we were one and the same, why can't people ever see this?!
We're seperated by time, not blood. Just get that through your skulls and get along already.

#4
Pertaining to the topic at hand.

Personally, I despise the way the US handles eveything. The politicians are so one sided, yet the country is run on neither side. To solve Illegal immigration, you must do one of two things. 1) Constitute a rediculous Nazi type ordered society, or 2) do away with all laws pertaining to citizenship, birth rights, etc. and go back to a smaller scale society where things are run with out the risk of an identity known to a small group of people (government) who watch and control you.

I prefer plan 2. But as we all know, we're heading full steam toward option 1.

Originally posted by Striker8441

Think again, I am in NW Ohio and we have a huge problem with illegal immigrants. In the county I work in the population is 109,000 and the main city's pop is around 45,000 with an illegal population estimated between 3-4,000 if not higher.

I live across the state from you (Wayne County) and while I know of a few Hispanic people around here, I don't know if they're here legally.

I say ship 'em back to Mexico and charge Fox for gas money!

zero thats the problem with sweet people like you you think america is african and european its not and it will never be just those 2 races and by the way yes mexicans and africans dont like each other mainly because africans think the mexicans are taking their food stamps however theres one thing that unites africans and mexicans and that is we have a common enemy and that being the white european question

As a person considered a minority and "Black", I have to ask you if you have taken leave of all of your senses? Jiminy Crickett...gimme som dat!!

Here in Dallas,TX the Mexicans are planning on bussing in illegals from all over the country,just like they did in L.A.,for an April 9 riot.We TRUE AMERICANS are planning a counter-rally for that day.Both parties sre going to be near City Hall.Pass the word to join us and show both the illegals and their supporters and the traitors in Washington D.C. that no one is going to take our country.
KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Texas Patriot]

Call me unpatriotic... but I'm for open-immigration. Either that or we all leave and let the Native Americans have their country back.

In response to the o.p. title...It would be a revolution, not a civil war. And, yeah, it may very well happen. Anyone ever notice how two of the most illegal haven-ish places have two of the most republican pres. candidates--a.k.a. governors--Schrwazenegger and Jeb Bush? Just the right PROBLEM for them to REACT to in order to establish a SOLUTION...(A military-induced earthquake in CA would be sufficient too, but that is a 'lil too sci-fi even for ATS)...Anyway, my point is that if a revolution does occur it will have been instigated by the gov't. Who actually thinks a bunch of busboys can start a revolution? Ha! Give me a break man.

edited to add a hyphen in the word "haven-ish"

[edit on 29-3-2006 by MilitantAngel]

Haha your all funny. First off illegal immigrants do contribute to our economy regardless if they are undocumented, and being paid cash at a lwoer rate. State sales taxes are one of the biggest contributors of revenue for our government. To say these immigrants contribute nothing to our nation is like saying they just work and work and work for money and don't buy anything. You must buy in order to survive in this nation. Especially considering many of them live together in one housing unit.

The money they pay for their housing units are also taxed. Western states charge sales tax on food as well. They contribute to our economy whether yall liek it or not. And even when you consider that some of them are able to live here for years paying property taxes and income taxes all while still being illegal. There are millions of illegal citizens living in this nation exactly the same way as American citizens live in this nation. If you are a hispanic it is likely you know quite a few people like this. They contribute to society as normal citizens, and live as normal citizens. They are even on the CENSUS!!

It is not only hispanics. There are Africans, Chinese (a damn lot of chinese), immigrants of former soviet republic nation states. This isnt a problem with most Europeans because the ways of life are almost exactly similar with the exception of language as America. They come here to make money, they go back to Europe. They live in both continents.

As far as Mexicans starting a civil war, its highly doubtful. The Senate already relaxed alot of the criminal aspects of the new legislation. Mexican illegals will not be the only problem to deal with. Many asians and other hispanics as well as illegal africans would rise alongside to fight against the ruling white elitist and America would cease to exist as it once was
It would further be split by attempts of international takeovers by the majority foreigners origin nations.

Life is going to go on in this country like it has been for awhile now because the representatives are smart enough to know the consequences.

I try to keep my head on my shoulders about these things. I've gotten better about it over the years. When I was young, I tended to have major problems over this issue.

Things are looking a little rough over here. Roughly 1/3 of the student body at the local highschool has marched out of class for 3 days running to protest. It's even showing up in the middle school to a lesser extent (and nearly started a race brawl there according to my younger cousin).

I'm not getting ticked off about it, but I did pick up another box of shells for my rifle, just for the outside chance that things get ugly, which I both doubt and fervently hope against.

All the same, I did get the ammo, because my grandfather was one of the demonized farmers of the Ceasar Chavez era. Chavez' people beat the snot out of my grandpa's employees and threatened the lives of his daughters- they had to keep a shotgun behind the front door when my grandpa was out working. Something like that tends to stick in the back of your mind.


Its not that I want this to come to violence though. I see what they're upset about. I think it's funny that poor whites are being pitted against poor immigrants; it's not entirely dissimiliar to the way poor white southerners were pitted against blacks after reconstruction. The great irony of it is that we've got more common cause than difference.

Those who come across illegally (and I'm not defending this entirely, because I do use the world illegal, however unPC it is, because it's legally appropriate) are doing so to contend with a failed border policy, and as a result must entrust themselves to organized crime in the human trafficking business and once here can be blackmailed by employers, landlords, etc because of their status.

Native-born citizens are also victims of a failed border policy because the federal government's mishandling of the border is not adequately protecting them from the small minority of illegal immigrants who are here to cause trouble. Additionally, illegal immigration, whatever its benefits may be, is bad for working class natives becuase it increases their share of the tax burden.

It's not a Mexican issue. Working and middle class whites ought to make common cause with Mexicans for immigration reform which
1. Eases and speeds the LEGAL immigration process and makes it accessible to as many people as the United States can accomodate without harming itself.
2. Cracks down on those who illegally immigrate in spite of the more accessible legal route, thus reducing job competition for those who come here legitimately, ensuring that everyone can get a legit ID and thus be accountable for their responsibilities here, and above all, reserving this land of opportunity for the good people who want to work and deserve a chance- not for the small minority of immigrants who may come to loaf or to live as criminals
3. Punishes businesses and other entities which attempt to profit at the expense of immigrants and tax payers. This is the best way to address the problem afterall. Although illegal immigrants ARE offenders, they ARE ALSO victims in a sense, and they have very little to lose; how do you punish such a person? Those who want them here to be exploited however do have something to lose, and they are offenders through and through- not victims.
4. Makes the Mexican government able to and accountable for improving that nation, because this is vital to the longterm security of America, vital to the economic future of Mexico, which is losing as many workers as America is gaining through immigration, and vital to creating good will between these two groups of people who historically have been very much at odds since the early to mid 19th century at least.


I'm a little worried that trouble is coming, but I think the odds are mainly against it. If it does happen though, it will be a shameful display of one half of the poor being hired to kill the other (either in a metaphorical or literal sense) by the powers that be, who are safely beyond the consequences of their inept and often exploitative policies.

I'll close with a note on what I suggest people do:

Mexicans- Be very careful in expressing your views that you do not alienate potential allies through hositilies. It might be a good idea to carry an American flag along with the Mexican one in these protests, and to do some intelligent and well thought out PR work in conjunction with it. I would also avoid the whole Atzlan issue- that's just not a discussion conducive to peace.

Americans- Don't bother supporting the current bill to criminalize illegal immigration. I can't imagine that there's any doubt in anyone's mind that it will be stricken down by the SCOTUS for political reasons, so all we're really doing is creating animosity. Put your weight behind a compromise when one comes up- preferably one that attacks the underlying causes of the immigration problem and safeguards the interests of immigrants as well as natives.

And for the love of God, keep you voices civil and try not to kill anyone.

It is true, that the lower half of the western US, was taken by the us army due to Mexicans killing Americans in some river near or in Texas, right? This was sometime before the US civil war, if my history's on.

From what I've read, Mexicans got taken over by the Spanish, who sewed caste society into their lives. They are mentally hamstrung by their own culture, frankly. It is far too religious. From what I've heard (from Mexicans also) is that in jail, Mexicans fight each other more than any other gang. Whites hang out and blacks hang out and indians/muslims hang out, but Mexicans beat each other up and kill each other all the time. Their culture is destructive in a weird way, IMO.

However, they and the larger latin body of people, like Brazil and so forth, have produced some awesome things. Mexico showed up for the WBC, for example. Skateboarding and X Games sports are regularly topped by Brazil. [That matters to me, as an American.] I must give Latin people their props. They will one day produce an NBA MVP, of this I am sure.

But this idea of civil war? It's crazy. Mexicans would get their *Mexican* kicked. Look at it logically. All they would want to take is perhaps everything south of San Fransisco, which they do have at least the same claim to as say, Israel has to Jerusalem.

But who cares if Los Angeles was taken over by Mexico? What would happen? More smog, More Spanish, more hookers. So what? It'd be the shining star of Meixco, and maybe we'd be able to legitimately own land (and kill mauraders, I mean) in Mexico. Great land down there, if a little hot.

But seriously, civil war? Would they take Texas? Answer: No. Would they get past the central valley of California? Answer: No.

Really now. Considering how stunningly gorgeous Mexican women are (or at least, can be at times), can we really say that their culture should not assimilate with the US? Is it really because they are non-whites? Because I hear a lot of racist talk here.

The fact of the matter, is that your cheap little drive-thru expresso business is only possible with 4-dollar labor, so if you send them home, you'll lose multiple service-business in the southern california area. Also, illegals pick every type of veggie and fruit, do every time of miserable job, and all they really want is a pickup truck and maybe braces for their daughter, when it comes down to it. They don't want much but to escape the financial experiment of poverty called Mexico.

Think about it? Why are they screaming about being sent back? Uh, because their country sucks! They are not able to have the pride they want to have, because all their gov't is drug-funded (for real) and so they take orders, and orders say: We gave you NAFTA, now shut the hell up. We want cheap labor.

But why can't Mexico become the fifty-first state? I mean, add a star to the flag and well basically all own the Panama canal together. And I'm sure Brazil will be a good neighbor if they saw Mexico really profiting from statehood. What would it mean, to have Mexico as a state? Well, it'd mean lots of white assimilating into brown communities. Also, it would mean cultural mixing in the form of spanglish, and so forth.

Racists need not fear. People are still collecting Hitler memorabilia, okay? There will always be a white, black, asian, latin, etc. Racism lives deep in every man's breast. That's why it takes a civilized mind to rise above it.

I'm 50% scots/irish and 50% french/banadian/indian, but yeah. I look white. I judge nobody by their skin. Black and Mexican people have been loyal and been disloyal to me, as have whites, etc. Really until we look within, there's no hope for any of us. Death is commonplace for those who believe in rebirth, but really? Why are you so anxious to have differences? Do you want to fight a war based on race?

Do you bigots think whites will disappear, if you lay off the racist chatter? Personally I think there will always be swedes and nordic peoples, blonde and blue eyed. In fact, having known some of these folk, I can assure you they will never leave this planet. They are tough, and even if tons of Morrocans go live in Sweden, there will always be some blonde girl who'll want a blonde male. With genetics, two black people will soon be able to have a white child, if they wish. Who cares?

So what is the deal? Let America get a bit more brown, and maybe some of the Whites in the Western states will begin to see the Native American cultures as being worth more study. Native American rituals are practiced regularly all throughout the southwest. Medicine men pray for peace. Lots of people pray with them. All that prayer will be heard, at some point. Do white people think this part of the globe was given to them by God? Really now, all the Mexicans lack, is technology. Once America is reduced to a lower level, it will be Americans, perhaps, who wish to flee South. But what's funny is that I know in my heart, the Mexicans would care for whites, not kill them.


[edit on 29-3-2006 by smallpeeps]

Mod Edit: Don't bypass the censors please

[edit on 3/30/06 by FredT]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I was with you right up to the purge thing.

Since there is no way to "purge" the bad without harming the good, I( am not really sure what can be done.

I'd like to see how they intend on removing the illegals from the country. I'd like to see them remove them from California, even. There a sections of cities that are controlled by gangs of illegals who are into every sort of crime. Their numbers run into the tens of thousands, and it would take a large military operations to remove them.

This is a pipe dream, to remove them.

Bring in the military...the The Posse Comitatus Act has been lifted before. These Illeagals for all intents and purposed are invading our soverieng country. Bring in the military to get rid of them. Close the borders, and start fresh.

1st increase the number of LEGAL immigrants to the USA.

2nd make all ILLEGALS invaders and shoot them on site!!!

3rd Fine all US business people out of exitance for hiring illegalls...(For those of you who say they do jobs, no American wants..make those on WELFARE take those jobs!! The Govt will make up the difference. But if you feel that you are doing a job beneath you...Then I'm willing to help you educate your WELFARE @$$ to get a better job. If you aren't willing to help yourself..Then F.O. and quit abusing my tax dollars.)

See above for any questions!!!!!

For those Mexicans who think that the US is their homeland, I have a great idea.



Let's start up a movement to annex Mexico. That way Mexicans will be US citizens by fiat and they can come and go as they please. I even worked up a bumper sticker for those who want to join the movement.



That ought to get someone's attention.

[edit on 2006/3/29 by GradyPhilpott]

I'm surprised that nobody talked about the "mark". You know, the one that the bible says you can't buy or sell without it.

Think about it. Our world is racing towards a period in our future where such an idea would have real significance. Take the illegal situation. If everyone in the world were marked, wouldn't it make it much easier to track a person? Anyone's movements could be traced, making it easier to round people up. Also, lets not foget about how this could reduce crime. And if there were a pandemic, the mark could be used to help determine which part of the populus are affected and how the disease is spreading.

I sure hope it doesn't come to this.

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Freenrgy2]

Mexicans are made up of the blood of Spaniards and numerous tribes from all over the central american area, from the well known Aztecas to much smaller groups that still exist in "tribal" communities in southern Mexico, remember Chiapas?

Considering a way to fix the border problem...add this to the post waaaay up there.

Implement a program of registration at all U.S. consulates and embassies for potential immigrant workers, include training programs financed by both countries.

If a U.S. business cannot locate a worker for it's operation locally, fly in the immigrant, guarantee same level of pay from the employer.

Any employer paying under the table or attempting to bypass the laws - loses all protections such as bankruptcy, LLC, Corporation, etc. Then fine them $100,000.00 per occurance, sieze the personal property of all corporate officers and place the company up for auction. There is no business so unique that it won't be replaced overnight.