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Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences

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posted on Aug, 3 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Jritzmann,

Wow, I am only starting page five I remember reading some of this way back when but I need to refresh myself and read the new stuff.

All I can say is your writing reads like .....well, mine.

I am getting tired and plan to read the rest either later or in the morning, I want to catch up on anything new going on with you.

Then maybe we can talk if need be




posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 07:29 AM
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Jeff

I'll start by saying that I'm not a debunker, nor a skeptic in the sense that I require facts and evidence etc to believe in certain things. I have, for years now, had a keen interest in everything regarded as 'strange', from conspiracies and the like, to the paranormal and extra-terrestrials. I have read many books stating peoples encounters and few - if any - have had the impact on me that this story (for want of a better word) has. I started out by believing pretty much everything I read, then I came across the Mantaulk Project and seriously had to think about what I believed. I then started checking for evidence of whichever event had my attention at that time.

However, after losing a good couple of hours reading this thread (I think I'm still on page 6/7), I have once again been forced, in some way or another, to have a re-think as to how I find things believable.

I have realised that I'm skeptical of everything. Plain and simple. But this, I believe, is not due to thinking that most would create of exaggerate tales for the sake of attention or money. Instead I now think that I simply do not WANT to believe. Your experiences are horrifying, just as much as they are interesting, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who tries to dismiss your experience simply because it is - simply put - scary, even terrifying to think that these things can happen.

Reading your account has actually led me to try and remember if anything remotely similar has happened to myself in the past.

My point is, that even though we (myself for sure) try to choose not to believe, it's simple fact that I can't bring myself to dismiss your account. There's just something about it, something not said or implied, that MAKES it believable.

I can't thank you enough for sharing. I can't imagine your mindset while writing it all down, as I have (so far as I remember) zero experience of this type of event myself. The skeptics will ask their questions and try their hardest to debunk it for whatever reason, but the experience is your's and in some cases others that were present at the time and you have quite rightly said... this is all the proof you'll ever need.

I'm at the part of the thread where you are having computer troubles, however I have to get ready for work and - thanks to your account - have been putting off a much needed trip to the toilet for at least an hour and can wait no longer. I will DEFINATELY continue reading later.

To finish, your post has inspired me to think beyond the doubt, beyond the unreasonable. While it may make no difference to you, you made a believer out of me


Thanks again,
Kyle



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by kai22
 


You're welcome Kyle.

Of course mine is just another story, mostly unverifiable - another one upon the pile. What I hope it does is to get people with similar weirdness to feel better about discussing it.

As I've said before, to speak of this experience with 100% honesty, not only strains credulity, but follows the paranormal's battle cry: Make them look like a nut. To speak of it in full disclosure no matter how weird or bizarre is to be thought a fool.

That's just the way it is - and it's consistently that way, not just for me but many, many others.

The Hopkins and Jacobs of this field, or this end of the study have left out significant data in my opinion, and have painted a VERY inaccurate picture of the phenomena and our interaction with it.



[edit on 4-8-2010 by jritzmann]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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I couldn't agree with you more.

I've tended to find, not just in this field but in many more unfortunate experiences, that those who are more willing to talk about their experience more - and in some cases endlessly - are the least likely to tell the truth. Since signing up to a few social sites, I've actually become abit of an agony aunt, people just seem comfortable talking to me about bad events in their lives. I can't detail their personal stories, obviously, but through those people I've managed to clear up the line between fact and fiction in those particular kinds of stories. From the start of this thread, you made it clear that you weren't originally keen on sharing your account in a place like this. I obviously can't be sure here, but when you say you have spoken about this before in public, I'm thinking that you never told the story as a whole?

Either way, I have to go sort some housework out now (the joys of being on the property ladder...) I'll be back to read the rest of this thread later as I'm very curious about how you came to 'escape' from these events, if you see my meaning.

All in all, well done mate. You should be proud of youself.

Kyle



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by kai22
I obviously can't be sure here, but when you say you have spoken about this before in public, I'm thinking that you never told the story as a whole?


I wouldn't say as comprehensively as here (although this is far from all of it)...but this is some of the more pinnacle events to me.

I started writing a book with everything at the request of hundreds of people here - but I have since questioned whether it's worthwhile. The UFO field is mired in crackpots and con-men, and the UFO interested public is not really interested in data that refutes their preconceived notions of what they desire this phenomena to be. If it doesn't fit their mold, they attack it. I for one don't need that.

So, unless this field does a turnaround to real thinking "outside the box" as they so routinely claim to do - but rarely if ever succeed at - I won't be giving the effort to contribute. I'm better off on my own studying for my own desire to know, or try to understand more, which has already led me in places I'd never dreamed it would.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Well to be fair to you, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't write a book. Especially after some of the skepticism I've seen on this thread.

However, to stay silent for fear of skeptics and bad-mouthers would, in at least a small way, defy the point of this thread. I believe you started this thread not only to appease those that were asking to hear it, but in the hopes that someone, somewhere might benefit from it? Well NOT writing a book would, in a sense, allow the skeptics to 'win'. I know this isn't a battle, it's simply people sharing experiences while others poke holes and accuse them to be liars. But if everyone with account worth telling decided NOT to write a book then there would never be a reason to look into these occourances.

It would be generally accepted, by the skeptics most of all, that everyone who ever told a story like yours were lying, and that everyone thinking about writing one longer saw the point in trying to 'deceive' people anymore.

I hope you see what I mean by all this. I'm basically saying that if you want to write a book, write one. I'd certainly buy it. It wouldn't have to be soley about your account. For example, you could flesh it out with details from these public appearances, any photos or videos you may have taken yourself, comparisons - if any - between another account and your own.

I sincerely hope you go ahead with it. If not soon then in the not too distant future


Either way, good luck to you

Edit to say the 'fear of the skeptics' part didn't sound how I wanted it to. I know it's not fear that stops you writing a book. Maybe 'to avoid the skeptics' sounds better?


[edit on 5-8-2010 by kai22]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by kai22
 


I think you misunderstand me - I don't mind skeptics, nor the skeptical viewpoint. I don't care for the fundamentalist skeptics, but they're a minority to me.

What I refer to is the current state of UFOlogy, not the skeptics. UFOlogy is on hot rails to hell as far as I'm concerned. There's a severe lack of critical thought, a desire to believe any number of UFological "heroes" no matter how unlikely or flimsy their "answers" are, and extreme resistance to anything that doesn't fit neatly into the preconceived box of "answers".

UFOlogy has become a cottage business for many - and to upset the apple cart with alternative ideas is to earn the ire of those doing conferences, radio shows, lectures, etc.

In my 20 years of involvement in this subject, I have never seen it in such a condition, nor have I seen the interested public so eager to get sucked into nonsense. My internet radio program Paratopia has earned itself quite a lot of criticism because we've gone outside the UFO community to talk to everyone from scientists, to theoretical physicists, to psychologists, to NASA personnel, to paranormal investigators who have background in quantum mechanics.

We have effectually dispelled a lot of nonsense that proliferates this field (regression hypnotherapy for one), and offered new directions and thoughts on the enigma to learn one thing: this "field" however loosely defined, by-in-large doesn't want that. A small core of thoughtful, critical thinking and analytical folks do, but your garden variety UFO buff is set on ETs and space doctors and won't hear otherwise.

The UFO enigma is far greater in scope than people dare to imagine - and so they won't.

I see no reason to write a book that could take a year or 2 of my life for people to argue moot points that I'd detail within it, nor to write it to be dismissed by a community of people who already have their minds made up.

And to be honest, to detail the complexity of the open ended and largely incomplete theory I have about all this would be a considerable undertaking. And I often ask myself: "For what?"

I haven't yet made up my mind to continue or not. I guess I'll wait and see if this thing turns around.

I will say it's been a complete pleasure communicating with ya the past day or 2 - and in a field rife with conflict, it's nice just to talk.



[edit on 5-8-2010 by jritzmann]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 01:55 AM
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Ah, yes I can see I was more than a little mistaken haha. I had no idea just how bad a state the field is in, much less the effect it has on the people involved. From the sounds of it, there are many people - who claim to be 'open minded' - deciding amongst themselves that there is some kind of 'rule' that these accounts must adhere to, as in events, timescale and the 'beings' involved? Therefore any new ideas/opinions are simply pushed aside in favour of the more common experiences?

I have to apologise if I am mistaken again, as this thread is probably the first time I've had chance to discuss the matter properly, with people who are actually 'in the know'. PLUS, it seems that your theory of just about everything to do with these events differs in someway to anything else I have read.

Out of curiousity, what are your opinions on :-

The 'beings' themselves? It seems you think it goes deeper than just flesh and blood, could you give me a brief over-view as to why?

UFO's? While many can quite rightly explained as secret aircraft developments and/or hoaxes, there are many that have no 'earth-based' explaination, or so it appears anyway.

I did have more but it's early in the morning and just like the sun, I'm not too bright just yet
haha.

I haven't yet read the entire thread and I can't put it off anymore, so I think I'm about to lose the next few hours on it


It's been a pleasure as always Jeff,

Kyle

Edit: I've now finished reading the rest of the thread, and you can disregard my question as to why you think the 'beings' are not extra-terrestrials. However I would like to know your opinion on UFO's. Do you think they could be vessels of some kind or part of a bigger, I don't know, illusion I guess, created by 'Them'?

One thought that has gripped my attention is that these 'beings' may be connected to the paranormal... ghosts in particular. My mum, dad and two of my sisters have had some sort of experience with ghosts (me and my other sister haven't). With the exeption of my mum, whom I haven't asked, they are all open minded to E.T's, though no experience of them that I know of.

Not sure what my point is there, just thought it may amount to something, somewhere LOL.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by kai22]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by kai22
However I would like to know your opinion on UFO's. Do you think they could be vessels of some kind or part of a bigger, I don't know, illusion I guess, created by 'Them'?


These days I think of them like symbolic instances of some kind (possibly). Do I think they are craft of some sort? No. Not the ones associated intimately with our little friends. Plenty are just aircraft we don't know about, and I don't much care about that. The question is how does one tell the difference? That's tough to do.

Therefore this leads to cases that have great photos, or video and you've no idea if it's attributable to "alien" or not. People can say "we don't have craft like that..." all they want - the fact is, they don't know. Yet another UFOlogy wish fulfillment issue there.

The symbolic nature of discs is obvious, as is the sphere. But do I think they fly around in those? No. My question is, how do you even know they're "flying"?

That aside, whatever you might have gleaned on what I think "aliens" are, is likely changed a lot. I did at one point see this as a "demonic", or "toxic" phenomena. It still can be toxic, as it's coupled with anti-structure all the time. The 2 go hand in hand.

But I'm back to square one again with the "aliens". I don't know. On one hand I think they are folly - a subfaction of the trickster undercurrent in reality. On the other hand I see them as evolutioners - they force growth an inspire new thought - which is also why they're associated in '___' and psilocybin experiences.

What I do think, is that they are around us all the time. We are simply incapable of perceiving them - and only under certain circumstances, can we at all. They are real, and not real at the same time. One thing they have done is made me critically evaluate the nature of reality, which is where most of my interest is these days.

EDIT: Oh also you mentioned ghost phenomena - which is something that I've become more interested in these days, because I've been seeing that sort of thing for a while now too. What I deduce from it is that it's all part of the same anti-structural intelligence. It's purpose? Again, no idea. But there's more solid theories there in that field than has ever been postulated in UFOlogy.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by jritzmann]



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Hello,

I understand the skepticism about UFO's and Alien's. If you have not experienced this kind of event I would think it would be difficult to accept someones account.

In this time of Human history we have technology that can be mistaken for UFO's and with computer's it is so easy for tricksters to make CGI pictures that set this subject back a few notches.

Many abductee's/experiencers are still trying to come forward to either share their happenings or are seeking others that might help them understand in some way what has happened to them.

Many that are taken try to find another reason to deny their own experiences because many times it is much easier for them to handle it this way.

Discovery is what they seek themselves but I believe way down within each dealing with this in their life knows in their gut their answers, they just need time to accept it if possible.

One problem I see is there are good Beings, not so good Beings, and some misunderstood Beings. With many not believing or understanding what is going on it can make it difficult knowing who/which is safe and who is not.

In the past 63 years since Roswell this subject as I see it has not taken a giant leap for mankind.

What I observe is we are at the point that these ships could be our own military craft and if there were Alien ships it doesn't mean Alien's are in them. I say this is rather slow movement in process considering the Human life span is not all that long however, I know others will argue we have come a long way in the past 60+ years.

Actually this is the way the (Alien) game is played in our terminology.

I'm not going to continue because I will be called a moron, stupid a know it all and let's face it what it all comes down to is everyone has to experience it for themselves...... and in their own way try to understand this.

One last thing the Alien ships move way to fast for us to see however, we can catch them if we slow down the movement with our equipment or they slow down enough for us to see.

I have no doubt a skeptic would never believe they are here in mass but they are.





[edit on 22-8-2010 by observe50]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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As hard as it is for debunkers to accept any of this at all, why is it equally difficult for believers and researchers to understand that this is deeper than the conventional "alien" explanation?

Good aliens. Evils aliens. Misunderstood aliens. Meanwhile, we don't even know if they are aliens or even if there is a them to begin with. The them in question could be one thing in many forms of something else entirely. We don't know. Why isn't it good enough not to know?

Why do we have to pretend to know? What about us are we protecting?

The acronym UFO has come to mean spaceship. What happened to the word unidentified? Unidentified is actually the only realistic word in the acronym and we've left it for dead.

We don't know that they are objects as we define objects and, as Terrence McKenna pointed out, we don't even know if they fly. But we do know they are unidentified. That's all we know. The rest is wish-fulfillment and cottage industry. This is a field of people afraid to say "I don't know" or unwilling to because they cannot sell you that.

People talk about government disclosure as if that means something too. How about a little ufological disclosure first?--WE MADE EVERYTHING UP!

Start there. Start over. And let's reexamine the evidence with two honest eyes open.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Unfortunately I disagree with you.

I KNOW there are AFO and AB that are inside their ships. There is enough evidence out there that should be more then enough proof but unfortunately that proof isn't good enough for skeptics and it never will be.

A skeptic will have to have some kind of experience themself.

Now don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with being a skeptic it's when they are rude, belittling and just down right insulting to a person that has lived with this in their life.

We are somewhat in a situation with this subject kind of like the saying ......you can lead the animals to the water but you can't make them drink.

I am an experiencer..... I have been on their ships..... I have had communication with them and I am not ashamed to say it or to share what they have shared with me.







[edit on 27-8-2010 by observe50]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by violet
I don't think the fact that he is a writer is an indication he is lying. The "well-written descriptions", being able to describe things and dates usually indicates the person is being truthful.

As for pictures and videos. they aren't needed, and they would only be called "fakes".

I had hoped to read more of his story and that he could continue this thread, but if that doesn't happen, it's ok.



I agree. You can be both, a writer and an abductee.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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Oops, I just realised I never got back to Jeff, you have my apologies mate, will write a reply in the morning.

Observe50, I'm intrigued about your experiences. As you may have seen from my discussions with Jeff, I'm not here to debunk, give grief or any other negative response. I might ask questions but they are only to understand the events better.

I was wondering if you could U2U me, detailing your experiences? Or post them on here if you prefer? Either way would be fine


While talking with Jeff, I've come round to the line of thinking that there may be more to all of this than just 'aliens, UFOs, ghosts etc', and that it could involve a level of understanding that we cannot comprehend.

Thank you,

Kyle



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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Wow I just found something really interesting after reading through this thread JR.

"When he wasn't "seeing" them, Streiber nonetheless frequently "heard" their voices, "as if a small speaker just to the right of my head." Without any difficulty at all he saw that this was similar to pagan oracles of old: "the oracles at Delphi and many other places in the ancient world were channels answering questions in trance... With the rise of Christianity the voice died...So the voice I was hearing, as also the voices heard by modern channels, was possessed by an ancient and lofty human heritage...I was still well within the tradition of human experience." "

conspiracyarchive.com...

This is exactly the way you described it in one of your posts. I am curious if you had ever heard Whitley make this description before?

edited to add quotes

[edit on 8/27/2010 by sputniksteve]



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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@jritzmann

i have a couple of questions for you

1) About the gong alien, the one with the chinese hat. do you think the alien showed up on that form so you wouldn't be scared by it's true identity. Also can you give us a picture of him.

2) did you at any time thought these beings were demonic in nature and your faith in God was being put to test? Do you think they are spiritual or biological beings?


3) do you suffer from sleep paralysis or lucid dreaming?

4) you told us you see beings through the corners of your eyes, are these the so called shadow people?

5) have you considered regression hypnosis.


thanks for your time



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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I am a believer myself. Your personal story does sounds scary. I cant imagine you wanting to remember all those things. Maybe its better that they make us forget those kinds of expirences, for the better good. Who know.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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this is a very intriguing story thank you so much for posting.. I've never personally experienced being abducted but ive seen many UFO's over the years and have taken pics of these objects..But i understand the fear you had as a child mine was somewhat diffrent they were called ( night terrors)common sleep problem among children, Night terrors are diffrent then nightmares but i had that problem from age 5 till age 10..thanks for takeing the time relate all this to us i know it has to be difficult and emotional..and i wish you well..



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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yeah ive had the same thing well not that it was the same things happen but they went on in my life about the same ages from like 6 till i was 24 i tell no one they would show up but the light was white the cleanest white and brightest white i ever seen. people have always treated me badly all my life and one time i asked them why and i was told its the reason i was put here was so they can judge how rotten the human race is becoming and they come and probe my mind to see who is evil and who is good and from what they told me the torture people put on me will be repaid by them because they know who they are. its something that happened over and over and when i was about 23 or 24 it totaly stopped but who knows maybe it still happens but i just dont know about it.



posted on Jan, 10 2012 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by anthaltie
 


Bumping this thread as it was mentioned in a recent post. I have been a member since 2006, and for some reason I had not read this account by the OP. . . simply amazing. You are brave. I can't imagine how hard it was for you to go on with your daily life, and actually have a career. Yet I know how accomplished you are.

If anything Ritz, I just wanted to give you props for coming out with this six years ago.

Has it helped you heal by revealing these events? Curious, as I have experiences that I haven't said publicly. . ever. For fear of it bringing it all back. I'm sure you can relate.






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