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Me and "Them"- Alien Experiences

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posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 05:39 AM
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Funny you should say about crumpling head like paper.
I have had a recurring dream that I have assailents (regular human not aliens) I punch them only for my strikes to do nothing, its like I have no strength, so I have to crush their head in my hands, their head is like rubber in it bends into a little crumbled rubber type head in my hands, I have had that dream a few times, probably means nothing, just interesting how you crumpled its head, good for you.

As for what you do when confronted by it, some have experiences with them in childhood, when they make themselves known, this can be frightening for a young child, as the person gets older they make a presence by more stealthy ways, being frightened as a child makes one angry, as an adult one thinks show your damn face now and try and frighten me, so I thought that if that was your experience that you would be busting to have them give you a surprise as an adult, one thing frightening children, its another a grown adult, funny how they tend to get shyer then, perhaps they don't with all people.

Have you ever been paralyzed by them, I would be keen to hear your description of that in detail, people don't forget that in a hurry.




posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Yes. It's not pleasant and you at first think (or at least I did) that I'd had some sort of stroke, or worse. It's never happened to me at night in bed, but rather in waking hours, and most times when I was at work later then usual. My business was in a very rural area not far from where my wife and I had the experience together (and sighting with others), so I was always a little wary of getting into the truck to go home.

More then once I was "held" at my desk while I heard them flittering about behind me. They would often come up on my right side so as just to be visible to me in my periphrial vision. Just enough to set me off.

I also saw one float near the ceiling (which was maybe 20-25 ft high) but he was visible only as dark and light areas of air. I didnt even see him till he moved. That was one of the less fearful things I ever saw, and I actually watched him for several minutes. Had anyone else been there, he would have been highly apparent to them too, it wasnt subtle, but it also didnt freak me out like usual. He seemed a lot more distant to me for some reason.

I heard an audible "I have to go...(unintelligible)" and he flatly vanished. I never saw that again that precisely and clearly. The voice sounded almost like one of the vocal vibrators you hear people use when they've lost their vocal chords....the small device they hold up to their throat to speak. You probably know what I mean.

At any rate I need a break from this, I've been writing and talking about it far too much lately and I had an extremely hard time getting to bed last night. I also recently had a small red light float in front of my face and dissapear when I sat up. I'm getting a bit too close to all this again, and I will not allow it to get into my life as it's done before.

Take Care



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Hi jritzmann !

I've read this thread all this time and I couldn't wait till your next answer. I've never wrote anything waiting for the right moment (and I think I've missed my shoot)

Anyway the pattern of your experiences is most likely the same as of the most abducties (I'm refering to Bud Hopkins books, Intruders, Sight Unseen etc. There are alot of similarites and common things).
My question is about your marks in your belly button. Have you ever checked your self for any kind of implant in that area or in your head (since commonly the implants are inserted through the nose cavity).
And the next one for which I can't stop thinking is about your definition for "them", who's doing that to you. When you say them why don't you accept the idea that they could be aliens? In your posts by "denying" that fact I got the impression that your imput was more to define this experience as a MILAB or something spiritual but sinister. At this point not being sure about neither of them why the alien idea has to be left apart? Besides it fits with other accounts from very serius people who have been going through the same thing. I mean I don't want to believe that are aliens doing that is just a thought why shouldn't this option be taken in consideration?

BTW is a great thread. The best I've ever read about abductions.

Take care.

Telos

[edit on 24-8-2006 by Telos]



posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 06:56 PM
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Why would they have to inject you, don't we have injections now with pressured air, they don't need to use a needle.
Also why are US reports, virtually always reports of grey aliens doing them harm, this isn't what we get in Europe, we have reports of different types of entities, also they are generally reports that are either beneficial, or just mostly strange, in the US it is predominantly, greys with anal probes.

Also you talking about it will not bring on activity, it sounds a bit dodgy that mate. I would also like to substantiate that symbol number one, also I want to hear your description of the paralysis, you see what I hear in these cases on the net on the most point is a lack of details, they miss out keys that I would expect, descriptions have a focused on the wrong cues, or miss others that would be better cues, or descriptions, focus, on what is described, this happens a lot and always makes me suspicious, because of this I feel that experiences/happenings are a lot rarer than we think, or would like to believe.

I am going over all the pages again to review.

this interests me.



I could not move. I could get my head/neck up, but nothing else. Past the light, there was nothing but blackness. Like trying to see into a dark house when youre outside in the sunlight.


I would like to know more of this, I would like you to digress from this in other experiences, I am interested in descriptions of rooms.
the look, sound, lighting smells, etc, not them but the environment.

Its hard to prompt without letting on what I am prompting for without leading an answer.


[edit on 25-8-2006 by Watcher of the Watchers]



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Telos
My question is about your marks in your belly button. Have you ever checked your self for any kind of implant in that area or in your head (since commonly the implants are inserted through the nose cavity).


No. I dont personally believe in such "implants". That to me is another part of the illlusion portrayed to us that these beings are spacemen tracking us like cattle. There is to date no retrieved implant that cannot be explained. In my opinion it's nothing but anoter ruse to lead us into another definition of "them" that, well, is essentially what I believe they want us to think.


Originally posted by Telos
And the next one for which I can't stop thinking is about your definition for "them", who's doing that to you. When you say them why don't you accept the idea that they could be aliens? In your posts by "denying" that fact I got the impression that your imput was more to define this experience as a MILAB or something spiritual but sinister. At this point not being sure about neither of them why the alien idea has to be left apart? Besides it fits with other accounts from very serius people who have been going through the same thing. I mean I don't want to believe that are aliens doing that is just a thought why shouldn't this option be taken in consideration?


I have seen absolutely nothing that hints that these beings are from another planet. I have read account after account of "recovered" memories by the use of hypnosis (which is patently unreliable) that documents sperm and egg samples, anal probes (eek), implants, etc. I believe that the vast majority of these accounts are based within what would be called "cultural contamination".

By that I mean that at some point the hypnotherapist had led the subject, or the subject actually came in to the hypnotherapist's office due to missing time they believe is related to a UFO sighting. Well, hello, of course with all the media bombardment of the typical alien abduction senario, thats what the subject will "recall". The majority of hypnotically retrieved memories are done because that person has the suspicion that they've been abducted, so the idea is already there.

A very small percentage of accounts have been found by hypnosis for other reasons, and simply came out. This wasnt the reason for the hypnosis session, it was more or less "accidentally found", and that individual had no preconcieved notion of what their issue was.

In the reports I have been privy to reading, of accounts of this type of recovered memory (accidentally found/no preconcieved notion of alien abduction) none of them contained the typical reproductive/sexual issues, nor what I call the "Jacobs/Hopkins" scenario.

Nor have my own. Not once have I been subject to any medical/sexual scenario, other then the arm scrape. Mine have always pertained to my perception of reality, my fear, and my realization of the reality or hyper-reality of the beings themselves. Almost as if theyre trying to get me to admit them as a "nuts and bolts" reality.

Thats not to say they havent tried to make me believe such "proceedures" havent happened to me, or my wife. We've both had marks and cuts we couldnt explain. Again, I dont believe these to be any more then triggers for belief, or slaps to get them acknowledged. At such a point one has to make the assumption that they need us to believe in them for them to have any relevance in our reality.

While Watcher of Watchers might think it "dodgy" that I say talking about them brings on interest from them, to you...and while he might not believe that talking about it cant bring it on...I beg to differ, and do so forcefully.

If I dont KNOW anything from any of this, I know the more concentration and time devoted to talking about it and rolling it around in your head, the more activity is likely to happen.

That is not saying you make it up in your head because you "have it on the brain". If that were the case no one else would see it, or experience it's effects, within a shared experience like has happened more then one time to me and those around me. It's definitely an external, independant thing. But one can give too much to it in the way of concentration and devotion of time...and that does make the enigma take an "interest" in you.

I'll note without mentioning names that I've had several people U2U me on this board and tell me they've been hanging on this thread and mulling it over and over for hours, and some have said they have to back off because they themselves feel and or see something wierd happening around them due to their interest in this thread.

To me thats again another confirmation to me that the reaching for the "answer" so intently can bring you more questions in the form of sightings and at worst, experiences. This is how it works as far as I'm concerned, and I dont base that on "feeling" or a guess. I have absolutely seen it work that way, and I'd never lie or mislead anyone by making it up.

So now, think, why would me concentrating on it, or being borderline obsessed with it, then coinside with sightings/experiences seen by me, my wife, friends (who dint even know anything about it) etc?? Why do my beliefs have anything to do with why they come?

Because they need it, to interact. And it's not random. It's planned (obvious by those of us who've experienced it as children). I think I'd mentioned before reading somewhere a study done way back in the 40's by a think tank on the defense against invasion by these UFOs and their occupants. (At the time, I guess invasion was what they thought was going to happen) There were many statements by the members, from "they dont exist" to "it's not a threat as near as we can tell".

But one members comments stuck with me for years: "These beings and their craft seem to have only as much ability to enter our reality as we give to them. Total denial therefore would be the most effective defense."

That doesnt sound like ETs to me. At all. Nor have my experiences given me cause to think it either.

I should say that I have the belief or suspicion that "alien" interraction may happen with everyone at one time or another. Either not everyone can percieve it, or they flatly forget it. I suspect the seed is planted in everyone at some point or another...it's what you do afterwards that either brings it into your life or not.
My research partner used to often say "Sh$%t dont stink til ya stir it". And I never found that to be any more true then in this case.



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 07:18 PM
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Ahh yes, I got you,
Before I say this, no I am not a trekie by the way.
This reminds me of an episode of the original star trek, they landed on a planet that was all ancient greek style, an ancient god appeared and started screwing with them, threatening to punish them if they did not pay it tribute and bow down to it etc, Kirk worked out that it needed worship for its powers, it needed the crews attention, adoration to exist, kirk and buddies simply turned around and ignored him, the god without attention simply disappeared.

The god had existed on earth, but when the ancient Greeks stopped worshipping, stopped believing, it left to go to a new planet, it took some Greeks that still worshiped it to sustain it on the new planet, once the descendants had died it was in trouble so it captured the passing Enterprise.

Its an interesting take on why the old gods, including the old testament god need worship, like our attention is needed for them to be, we stop believing and they disappear, its a great idea.

the same idea was in the film Excalibur, Merlin has to enter the earth to sleep, to wake again at another age, the reason being the old ways are dieing so his powers are weakening. So what he means is, the old ways, pagan times are changing, the new ways, ie religion, ie Christianity is coming, people not believing in the old ways is weakening Merlin, or making it so he cannot exist, so he has to sleep inside the earth.
Merlin's is of some odd parentage, of strange origins, one character who wants his help to satisfy his lusts, to be turned down be merlin's magic, states, your not a man Merlin you would not understand. (his lusts/needs, human ways)

So same ideas, ones belief, thoughts, have an effect on the physical world, a quantum physics experiment bears this out, one had a different result if you observed the experiment than if one didn't, the observation in effect caused a particle to make a decision, not sure if before one observes the particle it exists as a probability or exists in all locations, I forget the details.

Heisenberg principle/,Uncertainty Principle do a search for a better explanation of the rubbish description I can barley remember of it.

Also check out the holographic universe, idea being the world is a projection of the mind. (thoughts)


[edit on 26-8-2006 by Watcher of the Watchers]



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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Thanks jrItzmann

Still though I'm not clear about what I've asked you before.
Regarding the implants I've seen (of course in internet) few of them and read the analysis done by experts. There is nothing that could lead me to believe that those were a fraud and hoaxed. Anyway this is my perception and at this point is not important what I think and believe in comparison with you.

I repeat my question again. When you say "THEM" what do you mean by that? Who are you refering to? To be honest what I get from your answer is that all what happened to you is being done by humans who want to make you believe that is an alien abduction experience (which is a probability). So can you please be more specific and explain who are this THEM and what is your final opinion about this experience. If is not an alien force who's doing that to you then who is it? And for what purpoise?



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Telos
Thanks jrItzmann

Still though I'm not clear about what I've asked you before.
Regarding the implants I've seen (of course in internet) few of them and read the analysis done by experts. There is nothing that could lead me to believe that those were a fraud and hoaxed.


Well that depends on who does the analysis. One thing I took special note of is those making the claims of the outcome of such analysis. You surely know that if such an implant existed that did not originate from any place on earth, and functioned in *any* way, I'm sure you realize this would put to bed any doubt of external intervention. This wouldnt be debated, it'd be fact, and I expect we'd all sleep a lot less then we do now.

Most of the proponents of retrieved implants, as with a lot of other UFO "experts" or "stars" have much to gain from something they discover being "real alien implants" then common biological fragments, or something as mundane as glass. Thats an important distinction to make. What is the quality of the messenger...I preach that all the time with UFO matters, you cant just read a report and say thats gotta be right.

Who did it? What is their motive for doing the investigation to start with? Who are they and what is their background? Are they even knowledgeable about other possibilities of explaination? The proponent of the information, is twice as important as the information itself. Dont ever forget, legitimate unknows sell more airtime and books, DVDs and lecture dates then a piece of glass, or DNA fragments.



Originally posted by Telos
I repeat my question again. When you say "THEM" what do you mean by that? Who are you refering to? To be honest what I get from your answer is that all what happened to you is being done by humans who want to make you believe that is an alien abduction experience (which is a probability). So can you please be more specific and explain who are this THEM and what is your final opinion about this experience. If is not an alien force who's doing that to you then who is it? And for what purpoise?


"Them" I refer to are small beings, tan/beige skin, rather lengthly fingers, and quite large black/glassy eyes. I explained this pretty much in the second installment of these posts.

No, I dont believe anything human is involved, at all. My wife as well has been in the presence of a being she described the same way, during a shared experience where I was separated from her, me elsewhere, her in our vehicle.

Whats confusing you is the aspect that these beings I personally feel are trying to portray themselves (not only to me) as Extraterrestrial peoples. I absolutely do not believe this to be the case. They are by all definition "alien" though.

If you read through all the posts I've written in this thread, it'll help you to understand better some of your questions.



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher of the Watchers

So same ideas, ones belief, thoughts, have an effect on the physical world, a quantum physics experiment bears this out, one had a different result if you observed the experiment than if one didn't, the observation in effect caused a particle to make a decision, not sure if before one observes the particle it exists as a probability or exists in all locations, I forget the details.


I believe this totally applies to the UFO/alien situation.

I have said for years UFO "hotspots" didnt necessarily have to be any particular place...that it may well be the reason UFO's show up in different areas more then others, is simply because people go there to seek them out.



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 03:57 AM
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Kudos to you for your story. But unfortunately my diagnosis (which I know, you didn't ask for) is a wild imagination.

You mentioned that this was all written out previously, but then you go on to say in each update something along the lines of "Tired now, will update tomorrow" etc etc. Hmmm.

You start off with vague-ish details and go on to provide so much detail it's almost like it happened hours ago (you must have an excellent memory). Perhaps initially you were testing the waters and given no bad responses, you delved deeper into your 'story'?

And then you say:
"If I have learned nothing, it's that this phenomena has only as much ability to enter our reality as we give to it." Well, for starters, that seems a condratiction to your account. But if you trully believe your story, then maybe it really is just your imagination going wild? And you're believing a fictitious account as real? Hell, I still remember waking up one night, looking at the moon and seeing a rocket parked on it. No joke - the rocket was about 1cm tall and if my mind today didn't know any better - I would still swear that I had seen it for real. Of course I didn't, as it wouldn't be possible for the human eye to see such a thing from so far away (and the rocket was a kind of cartoon style rocket, but hey) so I know it was a dream.

I've been a member for a long time and I've read some stories on here that really make me think - "you've gotta be kidding", but I've never voiced these doubts (read my history, never). But you start off by saying that you're a skeptic when it comes to other's stories, and you're building up a reputation for yourself so that people will beleive you. So I'm sorry, but someone needs to let you know that you aren't fooling them.

Sorry, but it didn't work for me. I feel sorry for you for having to spend all of this time making up such an elaborate story - for what?



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
Total denial therefore would be the most effective defense."

I agree.
And I think they will succeed by acheiving a mass belief in them. The preferred version they want you to adhere to is typically the Lazar one, or variations of it..

I think if you feel you have had these experiences, to stick wth your intuition on what or who they are, don't let books, hypnosis, or others tell you what you saw, or what it meant. For example, saying you "saw a Gray", when in fact you may only have seen a dark figure. If you are using the term gray because you found out that's what they are called. or saying they probed you and made hybrids you parented, because of scars or other medical anomolies, then these are most likely pre-conceived notions.



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Tim356
Kudos to you for your story. But unfortunately my diagnosis (which I know, you didn't ask for) is a wild imagination.


Tim-
Thats certainly your entitlement. This was written down years ago, in a diary, not typed out for easy cut and paste. And when you go thinking about these things, it is very much like it happened yesterday.

I would love to think it was all my imagination, and that none of it really happened. Unfortunately it did, and youre belief that I made all this up out of thin air makes very little difference in all that. The idea that they have as much ability to enter our reality as we give to it, doesnt point to imagination when other people see it in a shared experience...which I said and you tended not to quote to make your "point".

If you believe there's anything to gain from this, I had previously said there wasnt, but I have to edit to say I hope that there is, that people will look a bit differently at the UFO question, and see it from a different angle that might help in some way to get some sort of "answer" or at least a direction. If you think there's anything to gain other then sore fingers and lack of sleep, I'm sorry to dissapoint you. But I feel it's important enough to say and take the chance.

My stance on this whole UFO thing has been one of an extremely skeptical nature, and my history online and cases I've worked on bears that out whether you tend to agree or not.

Why I am skeptical and out hoaxes so brutally is *because* of my own experience, and those of others who have seen legitimate unknown craft and "beings". I know enough to say this is far more important then we care to admit, and the idea of some joker making up stories and faking pictures is more then mucking up any serious attempt to get at real answers. Such is why I have the reputation I do as a skeptic in many circles.

I dont think "outing" hoaxes has anything to do with me trying to make anyone believe me over someone else. I have said over, and over in this thread that I dont care how many people believe it or not. Believe that. There's no words to express how little I care that you dont "believe" me. This isnt about ME, or YOU, it's about getting an aspect of this mystery out of the dark that people dont want to look at, and experiencers dont want to often admit: that the experience is FAR more surrealistic and wierd then they care to admit.

I personally suspect the start of new research into this is in those details.

Why I have related these experiences is because I care that people know them. If you believe it to be all B.S. then I'd suggest you just move along, because there's not going to be any diatribe from me to make you believe anything.

[edit on 27-8-2006 by jritzmann]



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by violet

Originally posted by jritzmann
Total denial therefore would be the most effective defense."

I agree.
And I think they will succeed by acheiving a mass belief in them. The preferred version they want you to adhere to is typically the Lazar one, or variations of it..

I think if you feel you have had these experiences, to stick wth your intuition on what or who they are, don't let books, hypnosis, or others tell you what you saw, or what it meant. For example, saying you "saw a Gray", when in fact you may only have seen a dark figure. If you are using the term gray because you found out that's what they are called. or saying they probed you and made hybrids you parented, because of scars or other medical anomolies, then these are most likely pre-conceived notions.


True. Too many people already know the scenario, I mean it's mass media contamination. Youre also right in that you cannot let anyone else tell you what it is to you. It's so subjective, you have to go with what it presents you with, rather then jump to any conclusion. Everyone wants answers and we dont know all the questions yet. Although I have to admit being interested in how people react to the unexplained, and the variations people come to in order to fit it in the box, too quickly.



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 02:59 PM
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Jeff-

It interests me that you do not believe that these beings are extraterrestrial. I have for a long time thought that the "supernatural" and "ufology" actually ran parallel to each other.

My husband who has been having "experiences" since he was child has not only seen ufos but has also seen other entities. He has basically taken the same approach as you. If doesn't talk about it or think about it things do not happen. Unfortunately, I on the other hand want to, or need to, know what this is all about. I may be the catylist to what happens to him. Things happen when he is be himself, and friends and family members have had experiences when he is around.

My big question is always what makes him different. Why are things attracted to him (as well as our daughter)?



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher777
Jeff-

It interests me that you do not believe that these beings are extraterrestrial. I have for a long time thought that the "supernatural" and "ufology" actually ran parallel to each other.

My husband who has been having "experiences" since he was child has not only seen ufos but has also seen other entities. He has basically taken the same approach as you. If doesn't talk about it or think about it things do not happen. Unfortunately, I on the other hand want to, or need to, know what this is all about. I may be the catylist to what happens to him. Things happen when he is be himself, and friends and family members have had experiences when he is around.

My big question is always what makes him different. Why are things attracted to him (as well as our daughter)?


I wish I knew. Youre right I do see it as supernatural and not extraterrestrial. I find it highly amusing there's a thread now on ats asking "creepy feeling when researching UFO's?"

Thats exactly it. Sooner or later people are going to realize the engima's (aliens) need for attention to enter our reality.

As far as you and your husband, is he Irish/celtic or German descent? Are You? Has he dabbled in any occult practices? Have you? These are a couple of the aspects I came across long ago with relation to who sees what and possibly why.

I honestly dont have any solid answer for you. I know the feeling of "need to know" but I also know where that led me, and I wouldnt wish that upon anyone. I'll wager your interest borders on obsession, and if it doesnt yet, it will at some point.

My advice would be if just cannot drop it cold, to keep it at arms length. I take a break from here every so often for a day or so, which keeps me out of it as far as I can tell. I cant talk about it, or type it for hours on end like I started to initally.

But I'm telling you from my heart of hearts, youre better to drop it. If you cant you cant. But just be aware of what can happen. I lost everything to it's effects and "the chase". I was able to rectify my life while I could still salvage it.

One thing you'll have to do is truly examine every "odd" thing that happens. This is WAY too easy to mistake coinsidence and misidentifications. Be critical. When it's "them" you'll know it without mistake. But be aware that alot of things happen on the edge of ourt perception. And, that leads to paranoia and conclusion jumping. If youre not very critical and able to step back and examine what happens, it can literally drive you crazy. And, in some cases, it has done just that.

And also, if youre not critical of your own experiences, you're just adding to the noise/signal ratio. The UFO field is literally littered with bits of those who dont do the due dilligence of examining their own experiences (noise). You cant be any less critical with yourself, then anyone else.

I had a few strange instances I almost put to "alien" interactions. But when I stepped back and looked objectively, I found the answers. Not every odd thing is an alien intervention...sometimes it's just one of those things. But when it was a truly unexplained encounter, there's just no mistaking it, and you'll feel rather silly for thinking that light bulb flickering in the corner was an "alien" presence.

So, I'd look into your husband's heritage, and if there's any "occult" history. See if there's anything significant between him and you. Thats my only guess.



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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As far as you and your husband, is he Irish/celtic or German descent? Are You? Has he dabbled in any occult practices? Have you? These are a couple of the aspects I came across long ago with relation to who sees what and possibly why.

You know it's funny you mention that jr. My ancestry is Aryan and I have a Celtic cross tattooed over my heart. Could have something to do with why photos of me contain anomlous images. Gee, one more angle to check.
Rock on Jeff.



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by longhaircowboy

As far as you and your husband, is he Irish/celtic or German descent? Are You? Has he dabbled in any occult practices? Have you? These are a couple of the aspects I came across long ago with relation to who sees what and possibly why.

You know it's funny you mention that jr. My ancestry is Aryan and I have a Celtic cross tattooed over my heart. Could have something to do with why photos of me contain anomlous images. Gee, one more angle to check.
Rock on Jeff.


The cross is a sun symbol.

Take a circle, that's the sun, add a cross through it, that's the 4 seasons.

as are crowns, lions, torches and others I'm too tired to remember.
crosses = sun
See X factor, having star quality, ie like the sun

You will find sun symbols everywhere for the establishment/large companies etc.

the Celtic cross is interesting, it still keeps the circle, that Celtic cross is really a sun symbol.

Could just be Christianity taking pagan religion, ie sun worship, like Egyptian gods- Horus = suns horizon, Set = sun set etc, and making it Christian.

Or something sinister, the Devil was once called Lucifer, the light bringer, the morning star, his job was lighting the stars of the universe, so he is associated with the sun, also he is a creature of fire, see the Koran, God threatens him with hells fire, the devil boasts he is a creature of fire, he cannot be burned, God says I will make a special fire just for you.
Fire also represent knowledge, the devil told Adam to eat the apple in the garden of Eden, the apple represented knowledge, the knowledge of good and bad, see story of Prometheus stealing the fire of the gods to give to man and incurring the wrath of the gods, fire representing knowledge, same story, only fire symbol instead of the apple.

so cross could be a symbol of Lucifer.

interesting- X rated, why use an X

hmm son of god died on a cross, perhaps the god of the sun died on a cross, interesting how he had 12 disciples, are they the 12 planets he being the sun, who knows, its all a bit the di vinci code style, personally I think the conspiracy stuff leads no place, I think its like Russian dolls, you open one to find another, open that and guess what, one more inside, you get no place, its all probably a screen for something else, or some other purpose.

The is also no race called Aryan, you perhaps use it as a general term meaning European or white, but there is not a specific race called Aryan, and if your American then you are a mix of lots of immigrants, with such racial diversity in America I find it very negligible that one can claim specific race, European countries are made of several races for that country and that's a localised population, American is a country of immigrants, the racial mixing is very very diverse. Hell living in the UK you can be Angle, Jute, Pict, Saxon, Viking, Norman, Roman, Celt, plus in Wales they have some heritage I believe the same as the Basks of Spain, that's just one county with its invaders, each of those invaders is made up of different races, now for the USA, everyone in the world has emigrated there, Americans are a big mix pot of immigrants, unless you have ancestors that have gone recent that is.


Myself, My racial ancestry is Roman, Norman, (Normans are Vikings that invaded Northern France, the French could not rebel them so they relented and also had to pay them tribute to defend the north of the country, ie Normandy, they made a claim on the British throne, Invaded and became the new aristocracy) and also Celt, so yea that's interesting isn't it, fits the bill.


Ill also add, I went to a friends house I had not seen in a few years, i had not seen him in like 5 years at least, I knew that when I eventualy went to his house that I would find something about this enigma, funnily enough, I guess I perhaps did. My friends girl friend was at his house, I had never met her before, conversation lead to paranormal stuff, apparently she is into the occult/new age stuff, so I told her my 'stories' the things I mentioned, mirrored the esoteric info she had read about, this excited her as this kind of strangeness, as Jitzman has stated, mirrors the paranormal, rather than the alien thing as some think it is, as I have never encountered the new age/ spiritual/ esoteric thing she got rather excited, she had read about this kind of thing but not experienced it, having someone come out with stuff that mirrored her esoteric/spiritual ideas but had not read about it, come across it, to collaborate it, was to her proof of the existence of her beliefs, anyway she wanted to read my tarot cards, and every time I saw her at my friends house she liked to talk about my paranormal experiences and her esoteric thing, anyway, every time I talked with her, straight after, that night or the next few nights, stuff would happen, stuff in my sleep, well my odd sleep, messages, seeing things in dreams, lucid dreams, being visited by stuff in dreams telling me stuff, my mate broke up with her so I didn't see her again, and so its died down, I thought that being around her changed me, made me more receptive, I though her belief in my experiences enhanced it, the people I normally are around don't have much imagination, anything out of the box doesn't exist to them, being around her, I don't know, it did something, so I think you may be right, I prefer to think of it as aliens, she saw it differently because of her spiritual new age occult do-dah thing, I wanted to think of it as aliens, its easier, but everything says otherwise, it keeps saying no we are not, everything says that, but still you keep saying, no your not that, show me the answers, and the answers say they are not aliens, but still you keep ignoring that, but you just cannot ignore it, you know deep down what they are, funny how you keep ignoring it.

I wonder if I came across people that I told my thing to, that took that as a reality, I wonder if it would accelerate it, its a funny coincidence, speaking of which, once after I talked to her, late one night, like 2 in the morning I left there house, outside was 2 strange men, one shouted to me, have you got a light, being a bit paranoid makes me wonder if they put them there, like its a question, have you got a light, do you know now, light symbolising knowledge. Funnily enough she gave me a book, esoteric type book, she said someone gave it to her and that she was to pass it on to the next person, that she would now when that was right, kind of funny that, but these new age types say stuff like that so perhaps its just that, this whole thing can sometimes do that, its just that when a coincidence does happen they can be damn strong, so you tend to be a bit sensitive to them because of that, Il have to get round to reading it one day, perhaps its got something to tell me.

[edit on 27-8-2006 by Watcher of the Watchers]



posted on Aug, 27 2006 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

But I'm telling you from my heart of hearts, youre better to drop it. If you cant you cant. But just be aware of what can happen. I lost everything to it's effects and "the chase". I was able to rectify my life while I could still salvage it.


Very true.

When you first start to research this stuff, you want those answers so badly. The answers may come in unexpected or mysterious ways There may come a point when it completely overwhelms you. yet the more answers you get, the more confusing it becomes and certain things just don't fit together.

I remember thinking it was as if I was given a 1000 pieces to a Jigsaw Puzzle. At first I thought this was ONE puzzle, so it was one picture I had to assemble to see what it was. But some parts didn't fit, maybe they went to other puzzles (scenarios), and maybe they were just extra pieces belonging to nothing. It's the only way I can explain it.

You will say those words "I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy". When you are saying that it has become a living hell.

I also remember one day thinking what the phrase "be careful what you wish for" actually meant. Because at first I had said I wish I could know the truth. I then sat down to read the newspaper, and there is a small news item, unrelated, but the caption headline read "be careful what you wish for". It scared me. In addition to this, the next morning an incident occured that was about as bad as anything could get. It was enough to make me drop this stuff for a very long time.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

As far as you and your husband, is he Irish/celtic or German descent? Are You? Has he dabbled in any occult practices? Have you? These are a couple of the aspects I came across long ago with relation to who sees what and possibly why.


It is funny you ask this, he and I have spoken about the possible link with our heritages. He is Hispanic/Irish and I am Norweign/Irish. We have always teased that we are probably related somewhere way back.

Yes, his family has had dealings with the occult, even though they were devout Catholics. Hispanics are very superstitious as a culture. His grandmother is what I suppose you would call a "white" witch. Unfortunately I don't think she was very good at what she did, and may have let a negative energy or energies pass through. Then you add a pure Irish grandfather in the mix and things really started to happen. As I said though, he can basically turn these things off. Just stop talking and thinking about them.

So over the years, eighteen to be exact, I have watched and observed these experiences. Even though I have been a part of some of them, the majority of the time I am not a part of them. I am left alone. So I read and research and read some more and like you said I am no closer to what this is.

I step back and observe things that have happened in our lives and I see certain situations have been manipulated by an outside source, whatever that may be. Over the last 5-7 years though my "need to know" has become sometimes overwhelming. Lately I feel like I'm getting close to it again so we will see what happens.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher777
Yes, his family has had dealings with the occult, even though they were devout Catholics. Hispanics are very superstitious as a culture. His grandmother is what I suppose you would call a "white" witch. Unfortunately I don't think she was very good at what she did, and may have let a negative energy or energies pass through. Then you add a pure Irish grandfather in the mix and things really started to happen. As I said though, he can basically turn these things off. Just stop talking and thinking about them.


Thats how it works. The idea of the occult lineage is interesting. While I did study about several practices, HooDoo, Wicca, etc, I wasnt exactly a regular or anything. I played...I guess that was enough. I'm also German, and without going into too much family stuff, I'm nearly sure some have been involved in occult practices.

If the lineage thing is correct, thats why your daughter is involved...if not, we cant ignore the possibility that time isnt linear for these beings, and at some point she may dabble in Great Grandma's heritage practies. I mean seriously, who knows...could this all just be another ruse having us look in another direction? I dont think so...but who the hell am I to say.


Originally posted by Watcher777
So over the years, eighteen to be exact, I have watched and observed these experiences. Even though I have been a part of some of them, the majority of the time I am not a part of them. I am left alone. So I read and research and read some more and like you said I am no closer to what this is.
I step back and observe things that have happened in our lives and I see certain situations have been manipulated by an outside source, whatever that may be. Over the last 5-7 years though my "need to know" has become sometimes overwhelming. Lately I feel like I'm getting close to it again so we will see what happens.


I wish ya luck. Just dont fall into the same old trap...that theyre gonna give you anything resembling the brass ring, or "ultimate answer". Any hint at such is, in my opinion, nothing but pulling you in further..you'll just end up with more questions.

If you ever need help, dont hesitate to write me, U2U if ya want an email.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by jritzmann]



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