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'Real' Magic

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posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by saint4God
Sheesh Cug, would you give a gun to a three-year old?


What the H are you talking about?

A magick ritual for a 3 year old to cure thirst.

1. Enter your magical space (Where mommy or daddy is)
2. Say the magick words (Mommy I'm thirsty)
3. You magick manifests (Mommy tells Daddy to get you a sippy cup of milk)


Magick comes in many shapes and forms. Magick is just one word used to describe what is being done. But there are more words like science for excample or how about "life" itself. People are to hung up on words isntead of looking at the definition and actions behind that word.

The 2 excamples cug gave were real life events that people undergo daily. Are they considered magickal or dangerous? No but it has become so normal and regular in life that people forgot the magickal experience of it. This is also shown in how people live their lives, taking everything for granted and thus creating a fastfood materialistic driven society.

Many people form decisions every second, but they don't notice it. Many pre-programmed reactions to similar situations making people more and more like a robot instead of being aware of each choice and each action and see it as a new one. Become aware of it all and make different decisions in similar situations and see different results. Due to pre-programmed reactions people end up falling into very similar situations all the time in their life. Try telling this to people who experience #ty lives. They got so accustomed to making these automatic decisions that they can't change even if they want to.

To me magick in the 2 excamples Cug presented is becoming more concious and aware of everything in life:
1. your thoughts
which ones are your own and which ones are from so called demons or angels

2. be aware of your actions
you're responsible for your own decisions made from the thoughts and each actions has several possible outcomes. Be aware of each possibility and then see which one applies best for the situation you are in and bare full responsibility for your actions

By becoming more aware and conciously involved you'll actually become a responsible individual that thinks before they act.

However the excamples which Cug provided are what is considered "Low Magick" (which everyone does in daily life no matter what name they give to it) and can in no way be compared to the complex High Magick rituals. And those rituals we won't be sharing with 3 year old kids seeing that we are AWARE and CONCIOUS about the dangers. These rituals and practices will only be taught to those who had a considerable amount of training. Similar to monks in priesthood who need to train themselves before being able to become a bishop and the responsibilities that come with it.

@Cug.
If you read what I said about my interpetation about karma in my previous post you'll see that I also agree with Crowley's definition "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."

[edit on 1-4-2006 by Enyalius]



Cug

posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Okay, I'll accept not knowing the full ramifications of the practices as an answer.


And again I'll say HUH?


Did you read the post I made? Did you see the whole "ritual" was walking into a bar and ordering a beer? What kind of loaded gun was that? I don't even think it could qualify as a water pistol.

You seem to have completely missed one of the points that has been stated in this thread.. learn the basics first... and that was what I was describing. Apparently all you saw was the words "Magick ritual" and wigged out.

OK how about this. here is the first Enochian key:


Ol sonuf vaoresaji, gohu IAD Balata, elanusaha caelazod: sobrazod-ol
Roray i ta nazodapesad, Giraa ta maelpereji, das hoel-qo qaa notahoa
zodimezod, od comemahe ta nobeloha zodien; soba tahil ginonupe pereje
aladi, das vaurebes obolehe giresam. Causarem ohorela caba Pire: das
zodonurenusagi cab: erem Iadanahe. Pilahe farezodem zodenurezoda
adana gono Iadapiel das home-tohe: soba ipame lu ipamis: das sobolo
vepe zodomeda poamal, od bogira aai ta piape Piamoel od Vaoan!
Zodacare, eca, od zodameranu! odo cicale Qaa; zodoreje, lape zodiredo
Noco Mada, Hoathahe I A I D A!


Now Enochian is probably the most complex/powerful forms of magick there is. Yet they is zero danger in posting this. Why?

First, while pronunciation is not all that important nobody is going to accidentally have that flowing out of their mouths in any sort of effective manner.

Secondly, Magick is not the words, or the rituals. Magick is the intent, or Will. That's why it takes so many forms, they all work for the practitioner.

Thirdly, if you don't know the basics you wont have any idea how to use it.

If I wanted to invoke your big bad guy, sure I could do it by saying the Catholic Mass backwards, but I could also do it by saying John 3:16 over and over if my intent was to invoke Satan.

EDITED

I just thought of another ritual that shows it's not the rituals that matter but the intent.. this on comes from what many call one of the blackist of the black magick books Grimoire of Honorius (Linked to a pdf)



My Sovereign Saviour Jesus Christ, Son of the living God! Thou who for the salvation of all mankind didst suffer the death of the Cross; Thou who, before being abandoned to Thine enemies, by an impulse of ineffable love didst institute the Sacrament of thy Body; Thou who hast vouchsafed to us miserable creatures the privilege of making daily commemoration thereof; do Thou deign unto thine unworthy servant, thus holding thy Living Body in his hands, all strength and ability for the profitable application of that power with which he has been entrusted against the horde of rebellious spirits. Thou art their true God, and if they tremble at the utterance of Thy Name, upon that Holy Name will I call, crying Jesus Christ! Jesus, be Thou my help, now and forever! Amen.


then in the next paragraph they start killing chickens


After sunrise a black cock must be killed, the first feather of its left wing being plucked and preserved for use at the required time. The eyes must be torn out, and so also the tongue and heart; these must be dried in the sun and afterwards reduced to powder. The remains must be interred at sunset in a secret place, a cross of a palm in height being set upon the mound, while at each of the four corners the signs which here follow must be drawn with the thumb :


The danger comes in when somebody is just goofing around with the intent of invoking some evil, or scary, or something exciting for kicks. They get what they intended.

A person with a loaded gun with the intent of doing some target practice is not dangerous.

A person with a loaded gun with the intent of killing every one they see is a danger.


Originally posted by Enyalius
And those rituals we won't be sharing with 3 year old kids seeing that we are AWARE and CONCIOUS about the dangers. These rituals and practices will only be taught to those who had a considerable amount of training.


That is one of the reasons the old Grimoires used to stick things like babyfat candles into the rituals.. to keep the dabblers out. but IMHO it did more harm than good.



If you read what I said about my interpetation about karma in my previous post you'll see that I also agree with Crowley's definition "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."


That's the part I said most people agree with ;-)

The point I have seen many disagree with is every willed action is a Magical act. Many still like to see magick as something beyond normal so to speak.


[edit on 4/1/2006 by Cug]



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 02:56 AM
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Would be good to add this...

Even though many grimoires, manuscripts and study material is very old in both wording as well as the actions described. These days we are further in our evolution and got a better understanding of the symbolic meaning of all actions. This also caused many writings to be re-written to apply to the 21st century. We don't kill peacocks or goats as offerage or for blood rituals because we understand it all better due to science and by having a deeper understanding of the symbolism as well. Thus we now use alternative methodes which are a lot more user friendly and a lot less bloody.

So the image of people running around naked and offering blood sacrifices is no longer valid.

Same as how Valentine's day originated from the fest called Lupis Cali. Lupis Cali was a fest in the time before the Romans and Christianity. People who lived outside the large cities lived on the fields and were called Paganus. Paganus is greek/latin for those who live on the fields. But in those days there was the threat of wolf attacks. Very long story, but people lived in different times and needed to do different things to sustain life then we do these days. Now a days we live more comfortable lives with a lot less danger and lifethreatening situations and this also reflects onto our daily way of living.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 11:53 AM
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Would just like to give a big thanks to Cug and Enyalius.. the more you write the more I learn. I'm amazed at how it can affect people in their day to day lives so greatly, even if it is 'low magic(k)'.

Saint4God- Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect everyone's views. The one thing I do not accept is the quote about giving a 'loaded gun to a 3 year old'. If I am correct, I think Cug posted some kind of spell (??) or powerful phrase within the world of magic(k), yet although powerful it will have little or no use to beginners because they have no previous experience and training of such things. As with anything we do in life, sport or any other another activity we need to know the basics and I presume people need to know alot more for magic as it seems to be more of a lifestyle requiring dedication and alot of time. I think personally, magic is in the right hands of these professionals who spend alot of time preparing themselves for such things.

I personally wouldn't practise because I lead a busy and hectic lifestyle and I don't think i could maintain the dedication. This however does not deter me in learning about such an art and it makes it far easier when guided by such experts.



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 06:05 AM
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Dedication and time are seperate of one another. It is quality over quantity. Even if you have only 1 hour a week to spare on your practice (whether it is a prayer to god, going to church on sunday or performing a ritual or studying the theories from many things of life by reading a book or watching documentaries)...As long as you are 100% dedicated and consiously aware during those times you'll already be busy with the "training". There is not a set time limit in which you have to achieve something, because everyone does it at their own pace. As long as you enjoy what you do



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 03:47 PM
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Magic...is it real? Try it, does it work for you?
Or maybe you dont want to try it, then observe others. Yes people give you stories, but have YOU seen anyone levitate, etc? Anyone can give you a story, but we are all lacking proof.

So when you see the apparent lack of magic, then you may try it (the only thing that I agree with being careful, is with your mental state...if you believe it(magic) is dangerous, then dont mess with it, or your state of mind on the subject will mess with you...

Gods Peace

dalen


Cug

posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by dAlen
Magic...is it real? Try it, does it work for you?
Or maybe you dont want to try it, then observe others. Yes people give you stories, but have YOU seen anyone levitate, etc?


Levitation and etc... have no part in Magick.

Magick is not supernatural so it follows that lack of proof of a supernatural thing will not disprove Magick. If you have never seen someone levitate, it does not mean there is no such thing as bookkeeping.



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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If you want to see levitation and the likes you should go to India and study Siddhi techniques from Fakirs to achieve levitation. People not sleeping for 50 years or not eating for 50 years is pretty common there and I've done so for a while as well. But deu to the dangers and strain on my body in its current state I stopped doing that and will continue at a later stage in my life. Still these are Siddhi techniques and are not taught in the magickal/occult stream, unless the individual themselves delves into it. Such as I have done.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by dAlen
Gods Peace


I see capital G. If we're talking about the same God, then there is His written impression on the subject matter and would be cautious of statements like the "try it" one here:


Originally posted by dAlen
Try it, does it work for you?


"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

"Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." (Revelation 22:15)

Wow, sounds like this magic stuff is a serious offense to God, why do you think that is?

[edit on 3-4-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by forestlady
It was the Christians who invented Satan not witches.


Ah, blame game, how mature. By the way, if you'd cracked open an Old Testament, you may be surprise to see Satan was in existence before Christ is mentioned in the New Testament, erego not a "Christian invention".
[edit on 31-3-2006 by saint4God]


Saint4God, I went to Christian school from Kindergarten until I graduated from high school, I've probably had more Bible study than most. Yes the NT talks about Satan. And Pagans came way before Christianity or the Bible. Believing in Satan is not a part of Pagan belief structure, it was invented by the Christians. If you do any kind of scholarly research, you will find that this is true.
No, I'm not playing a blame game. I was trying to be informative and to say that lots of Christians think Pagans, witchesand magick are evil. But I say how can it be evil if we don't believe in Satan? How can we be followers of him if we don't believe in his existence?
Paganism is the oldest religion there is, it has been around for thousands of years before Christianity, so why would Pagans believe in Satan?

-Forestlady



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 01:15 PM
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Not even going to reply indepth to Saint4God any more. Waste of time seeing he's to focussed on 1 book only. As I mentioned before...don't reply in here unless you got actual experience on the path of magick yourself. No need for ignorant views in here. Cug and I explained what magick is and keep falling over the word and if you're to blind to see the explenation then simply buzz off and leave it to people who do understand what they are talking about.

Forestlady explains it well. When at the beginning of the study called magick, or whatever other study in life or at school, you always start with the theory from books. You will be a scholar and delve through many manuscripts and writings. Many books with historically correct information from archeologists for excample. Many books that comfirm the information that another one gives. This way it can all be verified as well.

The first people that roamed the Earth did so in forms of tribes. These tribes held people in their groups which are now a days called Shamans. Men that were able to communicate with spirits, guide the souls of the dead safely to the other side, find back lost stock and more. The women in the tribe were the opposite and instead of helping the dead safely to the other side they assisted new born souls into this world. The men stood for death and women for birth and fertility. The men also felt some form of trivial threat from the women, a form of competition....but both were 1 part of the duality of life and death and belonged to the one thing called life.

The shamans were men only at that time and the women were equal to witches. Witch is a word that can be traced back through many histories of various languages and all come down to being "Wise Woman". A wizard respectively means "wise man".

Shamans were the foundation from which every religion or life philosophy grew. Many shamanistic teachings and aspects can be found in christianity, judaism, islam, taoism and more. The book Shamanism: The basics of magic by Wardford is a very good source to use for this.

Ok we skip a big part of evolution till about 200bc when mythology from greek and rome were present. You will see many female priesthoods worshipping female gods like Hera. Godesses which stood for fertility. Many people created godly figures to represent natural effects such as vulcanic eruptions, thunder storms etc. They created these mythological gods and made each deity an icon of the natural elements as well as certain human psychological aspects such as War and Love (Aphrodite). Still people used Gods and gave them human looks and traits so that people could more easily identify themselves with it and use external sources for what is simply the nature of nature itself.

Then christianity came slowly rising up. In the beginning forcing people to convert and killing them. Nothing "wrong" there seeing that the Roman Empire basically did the same so it was natural behaviour to force people and if they didn't do as you wanted you kill em. But there were acts of rebellion, simply because people felt no need for yet another god.

Christianity tried many things to convert people. Even went to the lengths of looking shallowy in other religions and eventually found the pagan god Pan. A protector of woods and forests, but the christians altered Pan so much that it became Satan. A propagandic icon to put everything under that didn't correspond with the teachings of the christians. But just as all the other religions everything that was written down was by the hand of man. No divine intervention at all. The Bible has been altered so often by so many hands...a book with teachings and rules from men that thought that they had the answers. Same as with any other form of religion. But there are always people who see things differently and have their own set of rules.

Many christian festivals are that of paganistic origins as well. For simple excample...go delve into the festival called LuperCalis and you will see the origins of St.Valentines Day. Nothing Saint about it you bunch of hypocritical thieves
Christians to me is a synonym of Ostreiches (sp?)...keep your head in the sand and ignore the truth and live in your own little world

Jezus never wanted a religion nor did he wanted followers. All he wanted was share his thoughts and teachings. If people wanted to follow fine, but he also said NOT to place him higher then anyone else...never idolize anyone because no man is better then you. Buddha had the same teachings. They promoted the strenght of human beings as individuals both men never wanted religions formed of them.

The religion Wicca and many others are that of nature. Respect nature and everything in it. Including animals and people. Do not harm is one of the most important laws among those "religions". So there is no Satan or other deity that represents all that is bad and needs to be worshipped. Christians are a bunch of contradicting masochists that seem to like to live in pain and agony believing in a god that is so perfect and benevolent that it gives you free will but still feels the need to punish you if you dont do as he says. Well that is free will alright and is very forgiving and unconditional love right there for you


Hardly a blame game indeed. The history is so dark, but people rather run away from it. Turning their other cheek when it becomes usefull to them. Denying a very large and important part of their own history and thus pushing away a big part of themselves as well. Depends how selective you want to be in seeing things. The truth never is easy to acknowledge when it is a part you're ashamed off. But accepted its there and is a part of you shows strenght and the first step in changing things for the better.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Wow, sounds like this magic stuff is a serious offense to God, why do you think that is?


Saint, I have over 30 years of evangelical Christian experience. I was a missionary to recently having worked directly with a pastor that is internationally known and broadcast in over 70 countries.

Beside knowing the ins and outs of every major denomination of Christianity, over the past 6 years I have studied every major religion possible (having also studied in Bible college apologetics, etc.), and also Judaism (Orthodox) and mysticism of the Catholics and Jews (Kabbalah).

All I can say is there was a point in time (when i was a missionary) when I could argue points around anyone, including the Baptist belief of eternal salvation at one point in my much younger years. (INteresting there are so many major disagreements in Christianity itself, they should look at resolving those inconsistencies.)

Like most Chrisitians I would say how infalable the Word of God is, etc.
I am here after 30 something years to say the Chrisitan God...is not my God (not the way they toss it around) There is no argument, no scripture, nothing you can say to convince me. Like paul (saul), I was the zealous one...
...but I want, and always wanted truth. There came a time (a process) when I had to just face the facts and see things for how they are. (Study & understand Judaism, and you will go a long way in seeing how pervierted, and modern evangelical Christian concepts are.)

Of course, you have all rights to believe what you want, this is great...and I know this message aint gonna do one thing to change you all of a sudden...cause I dont want to change you.
The point is to give my testimony (as a Christian knows, this is something that no one can refute, cause its your story.)

As far as majic, there is a strange inconsitency in majic, take a look at some magic practiced by the Bible characters of old. Evangelicals label it other things...its wierd how that happens.

The whole point I was making, is I dont believe in majic. Not the hocus pocus stuff...its all technology.

Burning in fire...lets see, what do I need for eternal life? (oh i forgot, even evangelicals cant agree on whether its forever or you can loose it...)

Gods Peace (that means the oneness of all things and I send peace to you as this letter is truly not argumentative, just sharing a story from a perspective you wont hear much from someone that has been so deeply involved in Christianity.)

Take care...we all have to take our own time on this path, so again, enjoy yours.
Thanks for caring about my soul though. (By the way, if anyone truly knows from experience what happens after this life, tell me. See the fact is no one knows...we might all end up as worm food.)

dalen





Mod Edit: Please Don't Quote Entire Posts


[edit on 4/3/2006 by Majic]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
Levitation and etc... have no part in Magick.

Magick is not supernatural so it follows that lack of proof of a supernatural thing will not disprove Magick. If you have never seen someone levitate, it does not mean there is no such thing as bookkeeping.


I guess it depends on what view you take. Everyone has a take on what is and isnt majic, all think they know which is the right way. do i? of course not...
Levitation to me is majic, but I understand where you are coming from and from your studies I know what your saying.

Magic is technology, even if its mind power.




(Mod edit: Trimmed quote.)

[edit on 4/3/2006 by Majic]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 01:34 PM
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Actually...

Magick is nature and nature provided us with all that we have.
This includes the human psyche and personality traits, Science and a whole lot more. Magick encompasses a lot of aspects of life under one word. Like god


But dalen's text reminded me of something.
Cug...did you happen to study Hebrew? If so how usefull is it? Seeing all the kabbalistic references as well as judeo references of the archangels in Hebrew I reckon it's very usefull to study it. Asked a jewish collegeau of mine if it was possible to introduce me to a rabbi who could teach me Hebrew and possible even the Tree of Life. But its difficult for an outsider to be acknowledged in the jewish community as a student unless they fully converted to that religion.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
Cug...did you happen to study Hebrew? If so how usefull is it? Seeing all the kabbalistic references as well as judeo references of the archangels in Hebrew I reckon it's very usefull to study it. Asked a jewish collegeau of mine if it was possible to introduce me to a rabbi who could teach me Hebrew and possible even the Tree of Life. But its difficult for an outsider to be acknowledged in the jewish community as a student unless they fully converted to that religion.


- you should be able to learn hebrew from most synagouges in big cities. (at least introdutory for free...some charge. I know from experience, but it really depends on location.) edited: just saw you were in the Netherlands...so it might be harder. (i.e. less synagouges.) but there are plenty of online free versions if you want to learn enough for pronounciation for meditation purposes.

- you can order material from a rabbi online to learn "orthodox" kabbalah (kosher torah)

you dont have to fully convert to learn kabbalah

Gods peace

dalen



[edit on 3-4-2006 by dAlen]

(Mod edit: Trimmed quote.)

[edit on 4/3/2006 by Majic]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
Actually...

Magick is nature and nature provided us with all that we have.
This includes the human psyche and personality traits, Science and a whole lot more. Magick encompasses a lot of aspects of life under one word. Like god
[edit on 3-4-2006 by Enyalius]


true, nature has provided us with all that we have. So it is the source of technology...

you are right about responding to saint4God...when someone, anyone, has their mindset...wild horses cant change them. (no matter how logical the argument.)

Peace
dalen



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
Saint4God, I went to Christian school from Kindergarten until I graduated from high school, I've probably had more Bible study than most.


Good deal, it should make our conversations easier.


Originally posted by forestlady
Yes the NT talks about Satan.


I was talking about the Old Testament, but yes, more details in the New.


Originally posted by forestlady
And Pagans came way before Christianity or the Bible.


Pagans came before "In the beginning..."? Really.


Originally posted by forestlady
Believing in Satan is not a part of Pagan belief structure, it was invented by the Christians.


As I said, no Satan was not invented by Christians and provided the proof. It's in the Old Testament. Not concerned with whether Pagan belief structure includes him or not.


Originally posted by forestlady
If you do any kind of scholarly research, you will find that this is true.


I have and found what I've just said. What records do you have to show otherwise?


Originally posted by forestlady
No, I'm not playing a blame game. I was trying to be informative and to say that lots of Christians think Pagans, witchesand magick are evil.


"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." What does that say about Christian thought?


Originally posted by forestlady
But I say how can it be evil if we don't believe in Satan? How can we be followers of him if we don't believe in his existence?


Belief in evil is not required in order to commit it.


Originally posted by forestlady
Paganism is the oldest religion there is, it has been around for thousands of years before Christianity,


Please see "in the beginning" question above.


Originally posted by forestlady
so why would Pagans believe in Satan?

-Forestlady


Only the truth is relevant, not what people believe.



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
Not even going to reply indepth to Saint4God any more. Waste of time seeing he's to focussed on 1 book only.


I do appreciate the compliment, and respect the fact that you're not implying that I've only read 1 Book.


Originally posted by Enyalius
As I mentioned before...don't reply in here unless you got actual experience on the path of magick yourself.


1.) I have
2.) Free Forum to reply how each of us wishes to


Originally posted by Enyalius
No need for ignorant views in here.


Agreed.


Originally posted by Enyalius
Cug and I explained what magick is and keep falling over the word and if you're to blind to see the explenation then simply buzz off and leave it to people who do understand what they are talking about.


No.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by dAlen
Saint, I have over 30 years of evangelical Christian experience. I was a missionary to recently having worked directly with a pastor that is internationally known and broadcast in over 70 countries.


Awesome. Good to hear you were involved in good works at one time.


Originally posted by dAlen
Beside knowing the ins and outs of every major denomination of Christianity, over the past 6 years I have studied every major religion possible (having also studied in Bible college apologetics, etc.), and also Judaism (Orthodox) and mysticism of the Catholics and Jews (Kabbalah).


Nifty, maybe you can answer some questions for me sometime.


Originally posted by dAlen
All I can say is there was a point in time (when i was a missionary) when I could argue points around anyone, including the Baptist belief of eternal salvation at one point in my much younger years. (INteresting there are so many major disagreements in Christianity itself, they should look at resolving those inconsistencies.)


Actually you should know the gospel is the same whether Baptist, Protestan, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. I'm surprised with so much history that you see "major disagreements". Perhaps you can provide some examples sometime. Paul has already addressed this in Corinthians.


Originally posted by dAlen
Like most Chrisitians I would say how infalable the Word of God is, etc.
I am here after 30 something years to say the Chrisitan God...is not my God (not the way they toss it around) There is no argument, no scripture, nothing you can say to convince me. Like paul (saul), I was the zealous one...


It's not my job to convince you, only God can do that. Again, surprised if that's new.


Originally posted by dAlen
...but I want, and always wanted truth.


Great! I shall do my best to help. We can discuss in great detail if you'd like to U2U. Since you'd shared so much of your history, I'd be glad to share mine too if interested and will do whatever I can to assist.


Originally posted by dAlen
As far as majic, there is a strange inconsitency in majic, take a look at some magic practiced by the Bible characters of old. Evangelicals label it other things...its wierd how that happens.


Very surprised you're not familiar with what is magik and what "the Bible characters of old" were doing.


Originally posted by dAlen
The whole point I was making, is I dont believe in majic. Not the hocus pocus stuff...its all technology.

Burning in fire...lets see, what do I need for eternal life? (oh i forgot, even evangelicals cant agree on whether its forever or you can loose it...)


John 3:16. No more, no less. You have this memorized, yes? "...whoever believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life." If anyone disagrees, they're not following God's word.


Originally posted by dAlen
Gods Peace (that means the oneness of all things and I send peace to you as this letter is truly not argumentative, just sharing a story from a perspective you wont hear much from someone that has been so deeply involved in Christianity.)


I'd like to hear more about how you've came to know (but apparently forget) so much yet believe so little.


Originally posted by dAlen
Take care...we all have to take our own time on this path, so again, enjoy yours.


Thanks.


Originally posted by dAlen
Thanks for caring about my soul though.


Certainly welcome. It's my job. One that I love and feel comes naturally.


[edit on 3-4-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by dAlen
you are right about responding to saint4God...when someone, anyone, has their mindset...wild horses cant change them. (no matter how logical the argument.)


Hello pot, meet kettle. I think you'd be surprised how easily my mind can change with a logical argument. Do you have one to present?




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