Christianity and Homosexuality....

Originally posted by dbates
Love how you mixed Chrisitanity and reincarnation. It's like we're shopping at Sears for religion and we mix and match tops and bottoms to create our own personal religion. Christianity clearly teaches that you have one life and then that's it. If your religion states that you come back for more lives then it's not Christianity.

According to who?

The vulgar Roman Priests who deviated from the original Gnostic teachings of our Saviour?

The profane Protestants and Calvinists who claim to follow the original teachings of Master Yeshua, even though their version of Christianity is still Romanism with only a few differing points of dogma?

Reincarnation is indeed a teaching of the Ancient Secret Doctrine, the Divine Thread that runs through all authentic religions, including Christianity.

If you read between the lines, even some of the early Church Fathers were Gnostic, even though they apparently spoke against the Gnostics(they were speaking against false Gnostics and not Gnosis itself).

Don't get me wrong, all sects of Christianity have their value; however, don't expect one to just sit back and let falsehood be spoken without due justification.


Also, every authentic Religion(including Christianity of course) has strongly condemned homosexuality because it is a sin against the Holy Spirit and Shekinah.

The Buddhists know that it is a sin against the Nirmanakaya and Dakinis(the Buddhist Holy Spirit).

The Brahmans and Tantrikas know that it is a sin against Shiva and Shakti(The Hindu Holy Spirit).

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.

"But whosoever speaks against ( Shema Hamphoraseh ) the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." - Matthew 12: 32

How can a fornicator follow the recently-quoted Greatest Commandment of God, considering that Bodhicitta(the sincere wish to achieve Enlightenment for All Sentient Beings) is within the proper utilization of the sexual force?

www.gnosticteachings.org...


(Sanskrit) Literally, Bodhi means "enlightenment" or "wisdom." Citta means mind. The synthesis, bodhicitta means "the enlightened mind" or the "mind of wisdom." This term has many levels of application.


(1) In an introductory form, it is used to describe the altruistic intention to attain enlightenment for the benefit of suffering beings.

2) In Mahayana teachings it is an elevated state of awareness (prajna) which directly perceives Emptiness.

3) In Tantrism it refers to the seminal fluids of the body.

4) Samael Aun Weor often expresses the synthesis of the term, which combines all these meanings.


"The Bodhicitta is the awakened and developed superlative Consciousness of the Being. The Bodhicitta emerges in the aspirant who sacrifices himself for his fellowmen, long before the Mercurial bodies have been created... It is necessary for the Bodhicitta, which means the auric embryo, the awakened Consciousness, to fall into the Illuminated Void." - The Pistis Sophia Unveiled

"Obviously, before the Bodhisattva is born, the Bodhicitta must be formed within ourselves. Furthermore, it is important to clarify the necessity of disintegrating the ego, the “I,” in order for the Bodhicitta to emerge. The Bodhicitta is formed with the merits of love and supreme sacrifice for our fellowmen. The Bodhisattva is formed within the environment and psychological atmosphere of the Bodhicitta." - The Pistis Sophia Unveiled

The only way a homosexual could avoid the Second Death of the Hell Realms, is to stop existing as a homosexual(by comprehending in meditation the desirous causes for it, in this life and past ones), and to stop fornicating.





Regards

Originally posted by dbates
Homosexuality is a sexual preference. Child molesters have a preference for little kids, but we require them to change or we throw them into jail.

Now I know that you're not taking a sexual act forced onto an unconsenting person and comparing it with a consensual relationship. I know I'm misunderstanding you.

This nonsense about Christians needing a sin they won't commit is just that. Nonsense. I don't know why you feel that Christians never sin.

Quite the opposite. Christians sin all the time. I'm just offering up a reason as to why homosexuality has become the "sin" that is threatening the moral decency of this world, when if you asked Christians everywhere to donate one of their cars to charity you would get laughs that would put Leno out of business.

People want to feel good about themselves.

There are two ways to feel holy, I think. (1) Don't commit the sins that are really hard to avoid (pride, greed, lust, judgement) or (2) Take a sin that is easy to avoid and make it really important.

In a lot of ways, I just feel like the Christian church has done the latter.

(For the record, I'm not shoveling dirt into someone else's house... I'm Presbyterian and proud.)

I don't fault someone for being a homosexual any more than I fault the man who cheats on his taxes. I would fault someone for not making an attempt to change their bad habits.

...and echoed...stated with Tamahu's signature poetic flare...

Originally posted by Tamahu
The only way a homosexual could avoid the Second Death of the Hell Realms, is to stop existing as a homosexual(by comprehending in meditation the desirous causes for it, in this life and past ones), and to stop fornicating.

Allow me to put these thoughts into the catch phrase of good Christians everywhere:


"Love the sinner, hate the sin."


I'm sorry, what an f'ing joke.

I love my wife and that is WHO I AM.

What would I do if someone tried to disparage the way my heart feels love...tell me that when my heart races at the sight of her that it is an ABOMINATION to God...tell me that the only way to please God is to lead a life of unfulfilled loneliness... ?

Hey but it's cool because I LOVE YOU MAN.

You know what I would say to that person?

I'd say that they must worship a different God than the one that made me. And I would never...ever...never...ever listen to another word they had to say.

Originally posted by Essedarius
Now I know that you're not taking a sexual act forced onto an unconsenting person and comparing it with a consensual relationship. I know I'm misunderstanding you.

So it would be okay for an adult to sleep with a 9-year-old if the 9-year-old consented? Not according to our law books...

From how I understand it, though, homosexuality is the big sin in Christian culture today because the secular culture is trying to force it down everyone's throats as being not only acceptable, but priviliged. You have stories like this one where the defense attorney's entire defense is that her client was insulted on the basis of his sexuality, so he had every right to murder a woman.

Then you have situations where workers are being fired for saying they're against gay marriage (example1, example 2), too. So, from a Christian's perspective, we're seeing that there's freedom of religion, as long as that religion is fully accepting of homosexuality. Otherwise, your religion has to change.

I, for one, am not one who is willing to change scripture because a political lobby wants it to match with their agenda...

Originally posted by junglejake
So it would be okay for an adult to sleep with a 9-year-old if the 9-year-old consented? Not according to our law books...

The consent of a nine year old is dubious. Nine year olds will consent to tasting poop on a dare. That's why there's a law against abusing their lack of judgement.

You have stories like this one where the defense attorney's entire defense is that her client was insulted on the basis of his sexuality, so he had every right to murder a woman.

That story is an indictment of our justice system, not of anyone's sexuality.

Then you have situations where workers are being fired for saying they're against gay marriage...

I just can't let you play the "oppressed minority" card on behalf of the conservative Church. It just doesn't work...in how many states is same-sex marriage legal? We'll revisit this argument when the answer is 50.

So, from a Christian's perspective, we're seeing that there's freedom of religion, as long as that religion is fully accepting of homosexuality. Otherwise, your religion has to change.

Again, I can't play the violin for the way the Christian church is getting "pushed" around the playground by the big bad gay bully. It doesn't ring true to me.

What the church is feeling is the backlash from a community that is being told that their relationships are illegal in a real "icky" way, but straight people can get dry-heaving wasted in Vegas and marry a hooker without endangering the "sacred institution of marriage", and therefore receive the blessing of the state (oh and God too).

I, for one, am not one who is willing to change scripture because a political lobby wants it to match with their agenda...

Hey, at least their not asking you to stop seeing the love of your life, right?

Originally posted by junglejake
I, for one, am not one who is willing to change scripture because a political lobby wants it to match with their agenda...

I, for one, am not willing to change the way your God made me because a religious right wing nut wants to match it with their scripture.

Edit: I don't mean you specifically Jungle Jake

[edit on 11/3/2006 by Griff]

Originally posted by Essedarius
Allow me to put these thoughts into the catch phrase of good Christians everywhere:


"Love the sinner, hate the sin."


I'm sorry, what an f'ing joke.

I love my wife and that is WHO I AM.

What would I do if someone tried to disparage the way my heart feels love...tell me that when my heart races at the sight of her that it is an ABOMINATION to God...tell me that the only way to please God is to lead a life of unfulfilled loneliness... ?

Hey but it's cool because I LOVE YOU MAN.

You know what I would say to that person?

I'd say that they must worship a different God than the one that made me. And I would never...ever...never...ever listen to another word they had to say.

I'm not sure how and/or if you're relating the Loving of your wife to homosexuality(perhaps you are female?)...

But for the record, the Divine sexual act between Woman and Man is not fornication.

Orgasm, however, is fornication.




Regards

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm not sure how and/or if you're relating the Loving of your wife to homosexuality(perhaps you are female?)...

And there, in hi-def, is the problem.

There are so many that find it impossible to compare the love between straight people with the love between gay people. Like it is IMPOSSIBLE that those nasty gays can have deep feelings for each other...it's absolutely UNTHINKABLE that they could be more successfull at marriage than straight folk!

Here's how I'm relating straight relationships to gay relationships:

They are EXACTLY the same thing.
There is no difference. ZERO.

Some work, some don't. Some are one night stands, others are 60 year marriages. Some are healthy, some aren't.

Oh wait...I take that back, there is one difference:

Gay relationships have to survive the unending scrutiny and unchecked hatred of numerous strangers.

But for the record, the Divine sexual act between Woman and Man is not fornication.

Orgasm, however, is fornication.

I...I don't even know what to do with this information.
The practical application of it horrifies me.

Originally posted by Tamahu
The only way a homosexual could avoid the Second Death of the Hell Realms, is to stop existing as a homosexual(by comprehending in meditation the desirous causes for it, in this life and past ones), and to stop fornicating.
Regards

I am not sure that there is any way to stop the thoughts that pop into your head. When you walk by a pretty woman, can you control the one perverse thought that pops into your head.NO!!! It's primal. while you may be thinking about her im thinking the same about her boyfriend.

Originally posted by Essedarius
I...I don't even know what to do with this information.
The practical application of it horrifies me.

The awakening of the Kundalini horrifies you does it?

Suffering and the View


...To feel what one should feel, what nobody understands what is unknown by he who feels what is not worth feeling, is in reality Being awake.

Behind the sentiment that one considers to be so real (which is not real) there is another sentiment that people do not understand.


The authentic happiness of the Being horrifies the Ego…


That which is felt in the Being causes pain to the ego.

The Being and the ego are incompatible. They are like water and oil; they can never mix. - Samael Aun Weor

Of course, the Divine Mother always horrifies Lilith and her Legions:

Lesson 2: The Ninth Commandment


...The result of the mixture of that Tantrism (of Lilith) created monsters inside of the human. Adam was infected with Lilith, creating devils in our world or psyche.

Jahve’s wife refused to practice Black Tantra and although he fell, she did not.

At that time there were different types of falling, and humanity became infected, and humanity is unfolding in two circles, Lilith and Nahemah (peoples minds are in this way). Every male and female fell into one of these spheres: either Lilith (Black Magic) or Nahemah (enjoying fornication and adultery).


Lilith is related with homosexuality, abortion, Celibacy, lesbianism – Lilith is inside EVERYONE.

Usually humanity unfolds with Nahemah,

but when we follow Lilith then that being is completely lost.

Both of these women are whores, adulteresses. This is what we have to understand...

The Gnostics are always condemned by the infrasexuals:

Kundalini


...Degenerate infrasexuals hate and condemn Gnostics because we teach the mysteries of sex. They are scandalized by the mysteries of sex, but never by their own lasciviousness, Adultery, Fornication, etc.

Anyone who wants to Self-realize without the Maithuna (Sexual, Magic) is a definite candidate for the infernal worlds of the submerged mineral kingdom...

Homosexuals/Lesbians hate the Holy Cross:

Klipoth 7: Saturn


...And the enemies of the Holy Spirit hate the cross - how are they called? There are many levels of this type of hatred, but the most well known person is Dracula.

Who is Dracula? A vampire - a type of psychological defect, a lustful defect, which is related with homosexuality. A male vampire is a homosexual, and a female vampire is a lesbian, in the physical world. They hate the cross, because the cross is the crossing of the masculine force with the feminine force in the sexual act. The phallus united with the uterus makes the cross. This is why male and female vampires hate the cross.

Those vampires are the egos of lust of homosexuals and lesbians. So there are as many male and female vampires as homosexuals and lesbians in the world - those egos that like to suck the energy of those that are "normal."

In a similar way as the ego of anger likes to fight and argue, the ego of homosexuality and lesbianism likes to suck the energy and hates the cross, and gives a lot of justifications in order to justify its hatred of the cross. That is why they are enemies of the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit works in the cross, makes life in the cross.

The Holy Spirit is that wisdom, that intelligence, that unites two atoms of Hydrogen with one atom of oxygen, crosses them, and in that cross the Holy Spirit makes water, and thanks to the water we are alive.

In every single union, or crossing of elements, is what is nature. The Holy Spirit is always creating different types of life with the crossing of elements. The sperm and the ovum, or the water etc, are always the result of the cross.



The cross is a holy symbol.










That is why Jesus was crucified on the cross - because he was sacrificing himself in order to give life, through the cross.

That's why it is stupid when you know the knowledge to say that Jesus also accepts homosexuals and gives them eternal life, to say that they will be saved. Homosexuals and lesbians are rotten seeds, spiritually speaking. Why? Because they do not germinate, not even physically.


...There are many enemies of the Holy Spirit...

I think that puts the final nail in the coffin(pun intended).








[edit on 3-11-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
The awakening of the Kundalini horrifies you does it?

If "waking up kundalini" means having sex without having an orgasm...then yes. It horrifies me bad. Luckily, my partner is pretty good about letting me "knock kundalini out."

I think that puts the final nail in the coffin(pun intended).

I have a confession to make, Tamahu. I don't really read the massive external quote-fests you have in almost all your posts. I stopped trying weeks ago. There are just so darn many and they go on and on and here I am with such a short attention span and precious little knowledge of ancient sumerian literature or whatever it is you're quoting. If you could just tag a little Cliff Notes section onto the bottom of your posts, you know, to sum up what it is you think we should take away from all those big huge words, that would be totally coffin.

IF I, BEING A VAMPIRE HATE THE CROSS. THEN WHY THE HELL DO I WEAR ONE AROUND MY NECK What the hell are you talking about??????????????? you have just officially pissed me off. I try to be tolerant, really I do. But saying that Gays, and Lesbiens are Vampires who HATE the cross. has pushed me off the end. I do not hate the cross. I embrace It for what it means


I also agree with the footnotes translating what it is your saying

[edit on 3-11-2006 by Ford Farmer]
*Please dont' shout*

[edit on 3-11-2006 by dbates]

Well the quotes(at least in my last post) are pretty short actually.

But if you don't want to read them that's fine too of course.

It is very very rare for a homosexual to repent for such a strong ingrained ego, and to return to Christ.

All we can do is pray that they do repent, or that they at least have perfomed many good deeds as to shorten their stay in the Hell Realms...




Regards

Excuse me, But there is no need for me to return to Christ, for he is already in my heart

Originally posted by Tamahu
All we can do is pray that they do repent, or that they at least have perfomed many good deeds as to shorten their stay in the Hell Realms...

At least we agree about short stays in the Hell Realms.

Question for you Tamahu...and I'm asking you, not your reference manual...have you ever had someone discriminate against you for something you had no control over?

Your skin color, body shape, gender, hair...anything?

OK
I apoligize for screaming (in text) at you Tomahu, but that just really ticked me off. I had a bowl of corn chowda, and mulled it ova, this is what I came up with.

1. I apoligize for yelling at you
2. I stand by my beliefs
3. I still don't completely get the whole Vampire thing
4. I should have respected you opinion, instead of burning it dow. We all have our own beliefs, and I disrespected yours, for that I apoligize
5. I do not Hate the cross. (Hate is an extreme word).
6. I love the Lord, and the Cross.


Ford Farmer

Essedarius



That is beside the point, because we all have karma to deal with and have all been discriminated against.


But the fact that Buddha and Christ taught, is that we all have the oppertunity to alter our karma and be liberated from it.

So yes, you can control whether you're a homosexual or not(you're true Inner Being is not homosexual, only the personality is).


That is the true meaning of Grace.


You can repent, and still Love the woman that you feel you love now, but without the sexual act.

Save the Sacred Sexual Fire for someone of whom you can form the Cross of the Phallus and Yoni with.


The Sexual Energy is one of the most potent forces we have to work with in order to attain Self-Realization.

Because it is the energy of action and creation itself.

Karma means action.

And thus, it is not surprising that the Sanskrit term for the Tantric Sexual Act(that Jesus taught symbolically, and that was depicted a couple posts ago), is the Karma-Mudra.

With the Divine Christic Fire or Fohat, which is Love, we can burn away the old karma that keeps us enslaved to the material realm.





Regards



[edit on 3-11-2006 by Tamahu]

No you don't I am afriad that I do not have the mental capacity to change the funny feeling I get when I look at Men.

No worries, in regard to me getting upset or not Ford Farmer




I'll I can say is to consider this:

Klipoth 2: Mercury


...If this humanity continues willfully extracting the Mercury(Semen) from their bodies, no matter how much they believe, no matter how much they love God in their hearts, God will not like that type of worship. Cain was always rejected. Cain is that mind which, through the brain, is commanding the sexual organs to Fornicate, and justifying that action according to the mechanical laws of nature. Many (nearly all) books in the libraries written by Cain (the animal mind) justify animal fornication...

Sorry, but the Cross will always be symbolic of the Crossing of the Female and Male Sexual organs and of the Three Forces of Nature(such as in the Masculine Proton, Feminine Electron, and Conciliating Neutron).


And homosexual acts will always be a profanation of the Cross.




Regards




[edit on 3-11-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Ford Farmer
No you don't I am afriad that I do not have the mental capacity to change the funny feeling I get when I look at Men.

That's because the mind alone cannot defeat such a strong desire.

Only the Atom-Nous of Christ within the Heart can.

And this can be done by devotion through Transmutation and daily Meditation.

Not just by "mind power" alone.

...Homosexuals/Lesbians hate the Holy Cross:

That's the most BS and totally ignorant thing I've heard in awhile.

I'm (for all intensive purposes) gay, and I don't hate the cross,
I hate the intolerance of the religion it stands for, but I don't cringe
and hiss at it.

And I'm not a vampire, though It'd be pretty cool to be one IMO.