Christianity and Homosexuality....

Originally posted by Seeking Nirvana

Now, I'm not a christian and I don't have the bible memorized from cover to cover

Shortness, I admitted to my shortcomings in my post.

If you're a true christian you have a lot to learn about humility.

Remember when Elijah made fire come down from heaven in front of 50 or a hundred pagan priests ( i forgot the number ) What did Elijah do? Oh yes thats right, he told then to shout louder when Elijah was dueling those priests to see who was the true God.

Its funny how people say WE SHOULDNT JUDGE NO ONE, and yet John the Baptist did exactly that....

Mark 6:18 (Whole Chapter)
For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

and in the end he got his head chopped off for it. TOO BAD FOR JOHN THE BAPTIST BECAUSE HE WONT GO TO HEAVEN because he judged somebody /sarcasm

But the bible did say that in the end before Christ Second Coming that it'll be like in Lot's day, so prophecy is being fulfilled RIGHT NOW with the increase of Homosexuality.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
there is no contradiction between Matthew 7:1 and John 7:24.

Once one understands that Rightiousness is one of His names among many...one understands that the judgement must be of Him ..not of the traditions of or customs of men. THe Judgements we use must be of Him/Righteousness. Not our own. This requires discernment..knowlege..wisdom...of Him.

From time to time in our walk here on this earth we must make these judgements. Not because we want to..make them but because this world will not allow us anything else. Furthermore this world will often deceive us about much of this and judging...so as to get us to mix leven and unleven..new wine with olde...as stated previously.

Thanks,
Orangetom

So by your reasoning everytime the word righteousness is said in teh bible we have to apply it to the "Righteousness" who is God? Sorry, but i think that's your own reasoning. Perhaps we should look up righteousness with a concordance in its context and see if its really talking about the righteousness of God or is it just a word? here i'll do it for you...

dikaios [dik'-ah-yos]

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 2:182,168 from 1349
Part of Speech
adj
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) righteous, observing divine laws

a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

2) innocent, faultless, guiltless

3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

a) only Christ truly

4) approved of or acceptable of God

b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them

HEY LOOK, the very first entry it says OBSERVING DIVINE LAW. AHem, wouldn't that include the sin of homosexuality? I think so alex!

Yes i can be rude, but honest christians need to ask themselves, am i following the bible or am i following my own way but God will still accept me. NO, that ain't going to happen, Sodom and Gomorrah burned because of thier immorality, and to be frank, so will unrepented homesexuals.

Am i judging you for saying that? Nope, I can only state what the Bible says, and if the bible says thieves, killers, adulterors will not see the kingdom of heaven, how is it any different if i say homosexuals will not see the kingdom of heaven?

And for the record, the doctrine that hell last forever and ever for all of eternity is a lie, the wages of sin is DEATH. If you look in the bible it also said Sodom and Gomorrah would burn with an everlasting fire...

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Shortness]

Shortness, thanks for your post. If you don’t mind, I’d like to point out a few things and make some observations if I might.

Originally posted by Shortness
Remember when Elijah made fire come down from heaven in front of 50 or a hundred pagan priests ( i forgot the number ) What did Elijah do? Oh yes thats right, he told then to shout louder when Elijah was dueling those priests to see who was the true God.

Its funny how people say WE SHOULDNT JUDGE NO ONE, and yet John the Baptist did exactly that....

Mark 6:18 (Whole Chapter)
For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

and in the end he got his head chopped off for it. TOO BAD FOR JOHN THE BAPTIST BECAUSE HE WONT GO TO HEAVEN because he judged somebody /sarcasm

Did you read any of my post on the previous page? Elijah and John the Baptist judged in righteousness. Now if you are in that same caliber, my hat is off to you. Elijah was so righteous that God took him to heaven without his having to die! John the Baptist was so righteous that he was allowed to baptize our Lord.

I would never deny my Lord but I don’t consider myself worthy enough to be in the same company of these two men.

Originally posted by Shortness
But the bible did say that in the end before Christ Second Coming that it'll be like in Lot's day, so prophecy is being fulfilled RIGHT NOW with the increase of Homosexuality.

Luke 17
26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The days of Noah and the days of Lot have much in common.
1. They are both examples of God’ judgement.
2. Noah and Lot both were righteous enough to escape this judgement.
3. Those who were judged continued in their lifestyle of transgressions against God.

This leads me to three conclusions:
1. God is planning another judgment against the world,
2. The righteous will escape.
3. Those who are judged will not repent but will continue in their lifestyle of transgressions against God.

Just what were these transgressions?

Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

In the days of Noah we see that the sons of God (fallen angels) had mated with human women and created hybrids that were an abomination before God. These hybrids were very violent and and wicked. It was so bad that God was sorry He had ever created man.

But in verse nine we see that “Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.” Noah’s DNA was pure human. There was no trace of the hybrid corruption in his family tree.

Genesis 18
20And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

According to many people, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is homosexuality. But what does the Bible say?

Read my next post for the answer.

Due to word limits, Ive had to break this post up. This is a continuation of my last post.

Genesis 19
1And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

I have a few friends that have been to prison. I am told that there age gangs of men who violently prey on other men. These gangs of men will often rape other men. Most of these men are heterosexual and would not engages in homosexual activities outside of prison.

The sin of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality, but that of violence. Rape is never about sex. It is an act of violence to demean the victim.
So we can see that the sins in the time of Noah and the time of Lot is violence.

Originally posted by Shortness

Originally posted by orangetom1999
there is no contradiction between Matthew 7:1 and John 7:24.

Once one understands that Rightiousness is one of His names among many...one understands that the judgement must be of Him ..not of the traditions of or customs of men. THe Judgements we use must be of Him/Righteousness. Not our own. This requires discernment..knowlege..wisdom...of Him.

From time to time in our walk here on this earth we must make these judgements. Not because we want to..make them but because this world will not allow us anything else. Furthermore this world will often deceive us about much of this and judging...so as to get us to mix leven and unleven..new wine with olde...as stated previously.

Thanks,
Orangetom

So by your reasoning everytime the word righteousness is said in teh bible we have to apply it to the "Righteousness" who is God? Sorry, but i think that's your own reasoning. Perhaps we should look up righteousness with a concordance in its context and see if its really talking about the righteousness of God or is it just a word? here i'll do it for you...

(snip)

HEY LOOK, the very first entry it says OBSERVING DIVINE LAW. AHem, wouldn't that include the sin of homosexuality? I think so alex!

Observing divine law would mean to abstain from sin, not necessarily judging others.

Originally posted by Shortness
Yes i can be rude,

Please don’t. It does nothing for your argument and turn others away from whatever truth you may have in your post. It can also get you a warning or even banned.

Originally posted by Shortness
but honest christians need to ask themselves, am i following the bible or am i following my own way but God will still accept me. NO, that ain't going to happen, Sodom and Gomorrah burned because of thier immorality, and to be frank, so will unrepented homesexuals.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they offended God with their evil. I have known many homosexuals in my life. Some are really good and loving people. Some are absolute jerks. I’ve never met one whom I would call evil, but I’m sure they are out there. Just as there are evil heterosexuals. Evil is unrepentant. Those who turn their backs on God will be judged by God, not by me. I can’t see their hearts, only God can do that.

Originally posted by Shortness
Am i judging you for saying that? Nope, I can only state what the Bible says, and if the bible says thieves, killers, adulterors will not see the kingdom of heaven, how is it any different if i say homosexuals will not see the kingdom of heaven?

Um, yes you are judging. Anyone in unrepentant sin will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. Singling out a group of individuals is judging. God will judge each person individually.

Originally posted by Shortness
And for the record, the doctrine that hell last forever and ever for all of eternity is a lie, the wages of sin is DEATH. If you look in the bible it also said Sodom and Gomorrah would burn with an everlasting fire...

Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word death from Strong’s includes a physical death and a spiritual death. The spiritual death is defined as:

a. the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell

Now the opposite of the wages of sin is the gift of God which is eternal life. Doesn’t it stand to reason that if life is eternal then so is death?
Sorry this post is so long, but thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear a few things up.

very intresting couple of posts. Thank you.

The term I look for often..is "violence" to fill the land with violence.....to do violence to. This is a "fingerprint" of those against God. THere are other fingerprints of those against God but filling the land with violence..or to do violence hence evil is the eventual fruit of this disobedience or those against God.... Always.

I have one of those Franklin Electronic bibles ...this helps alot in portability where ever I am when the idea/ideas come to me.

I have had a preacher speak to me on DNA...or the science of DNA. What he told me was startling..even shocking to those of us raised on evolutionary thinking in public schools. What he told me was that DNA wise ...people were of a much better or superior link of DNA than today..with all of our watering down of the species. Occasionallly someone of very good characteristics in DNA is born but mostly the strain deteriorates over time. In otherwords it deteriorates ..or degenerates...over long periods of time. IF this is true ..Adam and Eve had the best DNA possible...since that time it has gone down hill.

What I am saying ..is that for all this superiority in DNA in past historys...peoples conduct ..historically was not much different than today..in places and times much worse by what I read of recorded History. Men were not really better people...for all the greatness/intellect of many civilizations recorded. Even with all our technology today to make us more comefortable and live easier ,better cars, homes,clothes, etc etc...we are not better peoples than in those days.
Historically there seems to be a handful of times where civilizations or peoples rose above this natural wildlife but it didnt last long.

If you are sufficently perceptive to see pieces and glimpses of things from a Occult/Esoteric standpoint it becomes obvious. From recorded History unto today.
Our science and technology has put us in better homes, cars clothes and foods ..but has not really made us better of character. To do this requires something much different than Science and Technology.

When this knowlege is applied to the body politic it really becomes clear.

I am surmising here Dark Elf that you know something of which I speak.

With this surmising in mind..it is not difficult to see where it pertains to the topic of this thread and to others as well.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

Orangetom, in dealing with where we are going, it remains important to know where we have been. We don't always have to go back to the beginning. Sometimes we can start in the middle. Christ's letters to the seven churches is a good start.

darkelf... you are seriously not contending that sodom and gomorrah was burned because of "violence" You do realize where the word sodomite and sodomy came from right? Or how Lot had to get the 2 angels disguised as men into his home before the MALE inhabitants of the city tried to rape them?

Genesis 19: 4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

And for anyone even thinking that the term " know them " does not mean homosexuality... lets read it into its context, considering that verse 7 says "do not so wickedly" means they didn't want them over for a cup of tea >_<

the term "know them" is also used in the NT before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, when an angel came to mary and told her she should give birth to a son.

Luke 1:34 (Whole Chapter)
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

But hey, no matter what bible texts i give some of us will just go back to Matthew and quote the bible " Judge not lest ye be judged"

Also darkelf, you seem to forget the power of God, that He is somehow unable to change a person to the likeness of john the baptist or Noah, when Jesus himself said that we can be like CHRIST himself. I mean doesn't Philipines say that i can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth me? And aren't REAL christians a holy priesthood?

1 Peter 2:9 (Whole Chapter)
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

darkfelf, you said most of the men in prison who perform homosexual acts are really heterosexual and would never do that if they weren't in prison. Did you ask them that yourself? How do you know? Also, many people in the bible never had sex in thier entire lives, did they resort to homosexuality?

I just don't understand where you are trying to go with this topic? ARE you saying that homosexuality and the act of comitting gay acts is not a sin? Because i gave ample amount of texts that show it most certainly IS A SIN.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22).

IT IS AN ABOMINATION! OH NOES SHORTNESS, you are judging again! Judge not lest ye be judged!

I don't see why people are so concerned with what two grown people do behind closed doors. I'm hetero and must admit that if I try to imagine what to men do, I get a little disgusted. but it's the same way if I try to imagine my mom and her husband or my sister and her husband. some things you just don't think about! my only issue with a lot of homo's is that they speak on their sexuality all the time. alot are very flamboyant and flaunt their homosexual lifestyle. I am a conesuer of rap music but I do have a problem with artists that list the women they've had sex with. that's just TMI.

I'm not going to speak on whether homo is a sin or not. if it is or isn't do I "win" if I'm right? let God sort it out. but in the meantime, I don't need to cause more tension down here on earth worrying about what other people do in their bedrooms. We have poverty and war going on and people are worried about other people's penises and vaginas? get a grip. just grip yours and don't worry about mine.

Now I do worry about the whole "gay agenda". things like books in elementary schools with gay couples and such. no matter what argument homos want to make male/female relationships have a purpose biologically. I'm not saying that Homos weren't born that way or anything. I think that is logical to assume that if God can make Hermophidites and other genital abberations, HE/SHE/IT/GOD can make normal looking people with to much or to little of a specific hormone. We have to say either God makes mistakes or sexuality doesn't rally matter. But Hetero is natural and without it life as we know it would cease to exist. Sex for the sake of sex, whether it be male/male, male/female, male/self or male/sheep is simply lust. carnal satisfaction. don't try to teach my kid that any kind of sex is OK! Even with himself! He doesn't even need to know about sex until junior high when the hormones start poppin'.

and IMO, I think God's issue was with violence. even Jesus said that the most important law was love your neighbor as yourself. or it was at least equal to love God. he didn't say love your neighbor that's like yourself. so I would assume that this means gay neighbors too. And I know someone is going to comeback with "I do love them. that's why I'm telling them that they're sinning so they can be saved". how about save it! preaching to children is one thing, though I am opposed to the indoctrination of our children with any religion. But leave grown folks alone! if they're not stealing, murdering, baring false witness or commiting adultry, in other words not hurting anyone else, leave 'em alone! you do know that being a busy body is a "sin." you know, that whole "worry about the log in your eye before the speck in mine" thing.

Yes I agree again...it is important in knowing where we are going to also know where we have been. Most definitely.

I am suspecting that this is one reason History is such a poorly taught subject today among so many.

I think that it is often ironic to find that in all our/mans posturing about inventions and genius that his discoveries often clear up where we have been and also confirm that there is no new thing under the sun.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Shortness
darkelf... you are seriously not contending that sodom and gomorrah was burned because of "violence" You do realize where the word sodomite and sodomy came from right? Or how Lot had to get the 2 angels disguised as men into his home before the MALE inhabitants of the city tried to rape them?

Not just violence, but violence so grievous that they would rape an angel of God. Where do you think that amount of evil came from? As I stated before, rape is an act of violence regardless of whether it is homosexual rape or heterosexual rape. These are not folks who live a different sexual lifestyle, these are violent men. They came to take by force.

Yes, I know where the words come from. The act of sodomy whether by rape or consent is anal sex. It is the only way that a rape can be committed against another man. Hence, the word sodomy was derived from the Biblical city made famous for it’s destruction.

2 Timothy 4
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Here Paul said:

Preach the word: Proclaim the Word of God.

Reprove: Convict

Rebuke: Judge.

Exhort: Comfort, encourage and strengthen.

Endure afflictions: Endure hardships.

Do the work of an bible.crosswalk.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">evangelist: Preach the good news.

Make full proof of thy bible.crosswalk.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">ministry: Fullfill your service.

He also said to do this with patience and in teaching. In other words, can you judge the sin without judging the sinner?

I acknowledge that the Bible says that all acts of sexuality outside of marriage is wrong. I do not, however, acknowledge that the Bible says all homosexuals are going to hell. That would be up to God to judge on an individual basis.

shortness, I have to agree with Darkelf. You don't need to be rude. It's not necessary. Being rude will only cause people to not listen to you. If you want people to see your point there's a lot that you could from a Navigator. One of the goals of a Navigator is personal transformation to Christlikeness. I can guarantee you that rudeness is not something they value in their discipleship.

Originally posted by Seeking Nirvana
shortness, I have to agree with Darkelf. You don't need to be rude. It's not necessary. Being rude will only cause people to not listen to you. If you want people to see your point there's a lot that you could from a Navigator. One of the goals of a Navigator is personal transformation to Christlikeness. I can guarantee you that rudeness is not something they value in their discipleship.

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Its best to be blount concerning things especially if it has to do with one's salvation. Regardless of the sarcasm, Christ made his points across in an otherwise seemfully rudelike manner...

Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

WOWZ, JESUS called someone a DOG. /gasp

Didn't Jesus call the pharisees hypocrites? WHAT RUDENESS, JESUS IS A MEAN PERSON WAHHHHHHHHHH.

Please, you and i know full well whenever Jesus spoke it was always out of love. What better way to show his love then by telling the pharisees they were hypocrites and sinners? And if what Jesus is saying is love, how is it any different when someone says the act of homosexuality is a sin?

1 Kings 18:26And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

WHAT? Elijah, a prophet of God, mocking people? WHAT RUDENESS, WE SHOULD NEVER BE RUDE!

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

WHATS THAT STEPHEN? YOU RUDE GUY YOU, calling people murderers while preaching and making them stone you! Don't you know preachers should have ethics? we should never be mean!!

2 great examples of great Godly men, who showed a little "rudeness" to get thier point across. My question is, people who are offended on what i had to say, doesn't that kinda seem like the same thing that happened when the pharisees got offended and stoned stephen? hrMRmrRmz.

Originally posted by Shortness
Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Yes, the Galatians love and friendship for Paul had grown cold. There were factions in that church that were teaching salvation through works rather than by the grace of God. Instead of guiding them back to the truth, he called them foolish for believing in a different gospel. Now, he has to make amends to the church and win back their love. He is apologizing to them.

Originally posted by Shortness
Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

WOWZ, JESUS called someone a DOG. /gasp

The story of the Canaanite woman is an interesting one indeed. Why would Jesus call someone a dog? Was this meant as an insult?

The word dog used in these verses is the Greek word kunavrion which means little dog. This is less of an insult than the other Greek word for dog, which is kuvwn and means a man of impure mind. That is an insult.

Jesus came as Messiah to the Jews first. This woman was a Canaanite. She was following Him around like a little puppy begging for food. Jesus rebuked her because His message was for the Jews. He told her “It is not right to take food from the children’s mouth and give it to little puppies.” The Canaanites were idol worshippers. When she fell down and worshipped Him, He healed her daughter.

Originally posted by Shortness
Didn't Jesus call the pharisees hypocrites? WHAT RUDENESS, JESUS IS A MEAN PERSON WAHHHHHHHHHH.

Jesus could see their hearts. Can you do the same?

Originally posted by Shortness
And if what Jesus is saying is love, how is it any different when someone says the act of homosexuality is a sin?

It isn’t. The difference is using condemnation i.e. all homosexuals are going to hell.

King James Version
John 3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

We are all under condemnation because of Adam and Eve. Jesus came as a sacrifice to redeem us from that condemnation. There is no need for any person to condemn anyone since condemnation is already on us.

Originally posted by Shortness
1 Kings 18:26And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

WHAT? Elijah, a prophet of God, mocking people? WHAT RUDENESS, WE SHOULD NEVER BE RUDE!

Yes, Elijah made fun of the idolaters. It was not rude, it was a contest to show whose god was greater.

Originally posted by Shortness
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

WHATS THAT STEPHEN? YOU RUDE GUY YOU, calling people murderers while preaching and making them stone you! Don't you know preachers should have ethics? we should never be mean!!

Why do you feel the need to resort to sarcasm when we are trying to have a civilized conversation? Stephen was admonishing his OWN people for their history of killing their own prophets and turning to idolatry. This was historical truth. The Jews were, at that time, persecuting and killing Christians. And yes, Stephen was killed for his testimony to Jesus, as were thousands of other Christians until Constantine put an end to killing them.

Originally posted by Shortness
2 great examples of great Godly men, who showed a little "rudeness" to get thier point across. My question is, people who are offended on what i had to say, doesn't that kinda seem like the same thing that happened when the pharisees got offended and stoned stephen? hrMRmrRmz.

No, not really. However, if you went into a mosque in the Middle East and preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ until they killed you, that would be the same.

Originally posted by Shortness


WHAT? Elijah, a prophet of God, mocking people? WHAT RUDENESS, WE SHOULD NEVER BE RUDE!

When you become a prophet of God, make sure to come mock me first.

shortness, you crack me.

you take yourself too seriously so step down from your pedestal, take your self-righteous attitude and shove it.

Also, I agree with transparency. When you become a prophet of God, you can come mock me as well.



[edit on 3-5-2006 by Seeking Nirvana]

Originally posted by Seeking Nirvana
shortness, you crack me.

you take yourself too seriously so step down from your pedestal, take your self-righteous attitude and shove it.

Also, I agree with transparency. When you become a prophet of God, you can come mock me as well.



[edit on 3-5-2006 by Seeking Nirvana]

When will you realize you don't need to be a prophet of God to reveal people thier sins?

I mean, look at the protestant reformers, bringing the bible back to the people. Was Martin Luther a prophet of God? Melancthon? Erasmus? Luther said the pope was antichrist, OH NO MARTIN YOU SHOULDN'T BE RUDE JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED.

How about when during the reformation artists would depict Christ sitting on an ass in all his meekness and humbleness in contrast with the pope adorned in his triple crowned tiaras and his throne being carried off by his followers? WAS THAT MEAN OF THE ARTISTS?

ARe you guys finally seeing how silly that argument sounds?

Considering in the last 2000 years there seems to be a lack of prophets, ummm, does that mean NO ONE SHOULD SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE NO ONE IS A PROPHET? "Hey your not a prpohet of God, you aren't allowed to say anything."

LOL.


[edit on 3-5-2006 by Shortness]

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Shortness]

Originally posted by Shortness
How about when during the reformation artists would depict Christ sitting on an ass in all his meekness and humbleness in contrast with the pope adorned in his triple crowned tiaras and his throne being carried off by his followers? WAS THAT MEAN OF THE ARTISTS?

Blessed are the meek. What is meek if not mildness of temperament or gentleness of spirit? Was Jesus meek? Are we who call ourselves by His Holy name meek?

Shortness, this sarcastic response does nothing for your argument. Please, I ask you again, can you not make your argument without the sarcasm?

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by Shortness
How about when during the reformation artists would depict Christ sitting on an ass in all his meekness and humbleness in contrast with the pope adorned in his triple crowned tiaras and his throne being carried off by his followers? WAS THAT MEAN OF THE ARTISTS?

Blessed are the meek. What is meek if not mildness of temperament or gentleness of spirit? Was Jesus meek? Are we who call ourselves by His Holy name meek?

Shortness, this sarcastic response does nothing for your argument. Please, I ask you again, can you not make your argument without the sarcasm?

ok... i don't mean to be rude or mean, but the bible says that the acts of being homosexual, or committing such perversions is condemned in the bible and is labeled an abomination.

Now, am i therefore your enemy because i quote the bible?

YES! Shortness, you are correct. The Bible does indeed lable homosexuality as a sin. Where you and I parted company was I do not believe that ALL homosexuals are going to hell. The Bible condems the act. It does not condem the person unless that person is living in unrepentant sin. But that person is already condemmed, so to reiterate the point is moot.

Shorness, I really agree with you more than you realise. I just don't agree with your delivery. There is no fault in revealing the sin. Just remember that only God knows who is a sinner and who is a sinner saved by grace.

Originally posted by darkelf
YES! Shortness, you are correct. The Bible does indeed lable homosexuality as a sin. Where you and I parted company was I do not believe that ALL homosexuals are going to hell. The Bible condems the act. It does not condem the person unless that person is living in unrepentant sin. But that person is already condemmed, so to reiterate the point is moot.

Shorness, I really agree with you more than you realise. I just don't agree with your delivery. There is no fault in revealing the sin. Just remember that only God knows who is a sinner and who is a sinner saved by grace.

i'm not sure what you're trying to say... the only way a homosexual will go to heaven is if they were born again... meaning change thier life away from thier sins, meaning stop being homosexual?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

I don't think it is possible for anyone embracing homosexuality and still go to heaven...