Christianity and Homosexuality....

Many of you took Junglejakes quotes to heart as actually having been written in the bible. I prefer the actual scriptures which do not assume meaning.

Originally posted by junglejake

On top of that, Paul, in the same letter, comments about homosexuality in First Corinthians 6:9-10:

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

However, this does not make homosexuality into the paramount sin that so many make it out to be. It is a sin no worse than any other people commit intentionally, and there is forgiveness through Christ.

Okay here is my problem. The wording is completely changed. The King James version of the bible has the following as 1 Corinthians6:9-11

I believe the previous quote must be from a new age bible. It is making way too many assumptions to the meaning of words and changing them.

The actual quote is:
"9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Notice the word Homosexual is not used or the word male prostitutes? The meaning of words do change as time progresses. I think trying to modernize the bible using assumptions of text and context is a sin itself.

Today American Christians change the bible to fit their own needs. They refuse to follow the actual teachings of Christ if it does not fit their world view. Instead they violate one of the key teachings of the bible which is that no man may judge another.


Bible Verses

[edit on 4/20/2006 by nativeokie]

the reason why the word homosexual wasnt used was because maybe... just maybe it didn't exist at that time? The idea is still there...

Lie with mankind...

Leviticus 18:22 (Whole Chapter)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 (Whole Chapter)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Shortness let's try a few of these...

Exodus 21:7
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

So selling your daughter into slavery is good...

Leviticus11:10-12
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 they shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Eating shellfish is an abomination as well, just like homosexuality

Leviticus21:20
20 or crookbacked, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

This means if I have any of these conditions it is an abomonation for me to approach the alter of God. Glasses do me in on this one.

My point is there are hundreds of things in the Old testiment that you quote that for some reason today's Christians ignore. Why not support slavery? Why not sell your daughters into slavery? Why not condem the blind? We have evolved.

I just want to know why you get to pick and choose which of gods laws you follow? Why is it that all the other laws such as Lev. 11:6-8 which won't allow me to play football, Lev.19:19 which condems me for planting two different crops in the same field aren't as important as the one condeming a man laying with another man?

I look forward to standing before God and having this discussion. I think you might be the one surprised by the answers.

Yep, and just because its popular to eat pork and drink alcohol doesn't mean its ok to God. However, at these times of ignorance God winked at, and i won't dare question someone's Christianity if they truly, HONESTLY believe its okay to eat pork, drink alcohol, or eat shellfish just because they don't know any better. However, its widely known that homosexuality is a sin.

ALSO, you seem to somehow forget that some of those levitical laws were re-emphasized by Jesus himself. Paul said it as well, therefore, regardless of whether Christians pick and choose what they believe, it is a definate thing that homosexuality is a sin, and it'll be up to God whether or not they were truly ignorant that they know they should not eat pork or the fat and blood of any animal etc.

edit : You think because there's a law with the Jews concerning slavery that we in our culture should do the same? Just because the Jews stoned women because of prostitution 2000 years ago should we do the same thing in our time?


[edit on 20-4-2006 by Shortness]

I am really confused Shortness. Are you saying God winked when he handed down his law? Why is it the only thing you think is certain is homosexuality is wrong. Jesus taught us about love, caring for the ill and poverty stricken. He did not talk about homosexuality or abortion. I believe since he was the son of God he knew these would be the driving issues of Christianity. Why keep silent on the subjects? Why not say specifically they are wrong. Instead he focused on peace and compassion.

In the end no one knows for sure. But for a Christian to condem someone for one law and believe it okay to violate others in my eyes destroys any level of credibility.

There are so many other faults in this world, the focus on homosexuals is easy and straight white christians just can't grasp love between two people of the same sex (many too busy cheating or divorcing to try). Sadly many of them claim this while trolling for sex with other men. I am in Tulsa, the mecca of married christian men who hide in bushes looking for other men to have sex with. These are the same ones who will vote to deny marriage rights to homosexuals.

I will gladly stand before God with these Christians and those who believe they are equal to God and can condem others. I do believe I will walk through those gates first. Possibly alone.

Acts 17:30 (Whole Chapter)
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

No one said God was ignorant when he made the law. I'm saying RIGHT NOW, there are many Christians who have a saving relationship with Christ who are eating pork... how can this be? Because they are ignorant that we aren't suppose to eat pork.

John 9:41 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

It's widely known that homosexuality is a sin. It is NOT widely known that eating pork is a sin... why? because most churches teach it so and it'll be God who he will judge whether they simply were ignorant, or that they willingly knew it, but chose to eat pork anyways.

edit : Jesus didn't have to tell in the Bible that they were wrong, the common misconception is that the OT is done away with and we don't need it no more. Christ came to to verify and expand on the law and the prophets.

Matthew 5:17 (Whole Chapter)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus said that not only the act of committing adultery was a sin, but also thinking it in your hearts.

If you think that homosexuals will see the kingdom of Heaven CONTRARY to what the OT AND NT says about homosexuality, then you believe in something other than the Bible. Regardless of what OTHERS think, our final authority is what the bible has to say.

[edit on 20-4-2006 by Shortness]

[edit on 20-4-2006 by Shortness]

Whilst I'm not a theologian, I think it's pretty obvious that verses such as that which prohibits the use of pork should be taken into context.

God apparently passed these laws down to the ancient Israelites at a time when they were wandering in the desert. Hygiene and disease would have been a major concern at the time, and I'm certain that most of these laws were simply founded in practicality.

It has no bearing on whether you can play football or not as an American living in the 21st century.

What I don't understand is that if God loves me (if fact many Xtiens say that God IS love) why did God make so many thou shalt not dos. Then place my salvation in the hands of a two thousand year old carpenter?
It would seem to me that with some 630 commandments that God does not want me or any one at all in Heaven.
And when you add the fact that it's just as much a sin to think it as to do it... well I'm going to hell I guess, But hey on the way I will have some really cool thoughts.

I think Shortness is talking himself in circles here. I hope he didn't get dizzy typing all that.

So, it's OK to sin if you didn't know that was a sin and that applies to all the sins except, obviously, any homosexual daliances since we're all born knowing that this is sin. So, even those devout Christians who have been studying their bibles for about 50 years but just never noticed that stuff about the shrimp cocktails and the barbecued ribs well, that's not really a sin.

Actually, you missed the current popular Christian argument about how Jesus's New Covenant said it was OK to eat that stuff. I've heard that one a few hundred times. Still, the part about not being allowed to plant different crops in the same field and wear clothes made of different blends of fabrics and such...well, nobody ever seems to really pay much attention to those sins so, they must be OK and the bible was just having some fun with you on those, right?

The greatest of all the abominations according to the bible; the one that is way, way bigger than the others in this list is....hmmm...it doesn't really say, does it?

But, the Radical Christian Right tells us very clearly that G-d really meant that all that other stuff was OK but, not homosexuality. Thank heavens we have the Right Reverend Falwell to clear all that up for us.

Onward Christian Soldiers!

Originally posted by Al Davison
I think Shortness is talking himself in circles here. I hope he didn't get dizzy typing all that.

So, it's OK to sin if you didn't know that was a sin and that applies to all the sins except, obviously, any homosexual daliances since we're all born knowing that this is sin. So, even those devout Christians who have been studying their bibles for about 50 years but just never noticed that stuff about the shrimp cocktails and the barbecued ribs well, that's not really a sin.

Actually, you missed the current popular Christian argument about how Jesus's New Covenant said it was OK to eat that stuff. I've heard that one a few hundred times. Still, the part about not being allowed to plant different crops in the same field and wear clothes made of different blends of fabrics and such...well, nobody ever seems to really pay much attention to those sins so, they must be OK and the bible was just having some fun with you on those, right?

The greatest of all the abominations according to the bible; the one that is way, way bigger than the others in this list is....hmmm...it doesn't really say, does it?

But, the Radical Christian Right tells us very clearly that G-d really meant that all that other stuff was OK but, not homosexuality. Thank heavens we have the Right Reverend Falwell to clear all that up for us.

Onward Christian Soldiers!

since you don't even know what it means when the bible says "at these times of ignorance God winked at"

I have a bible text for you...

Matthew 7:6 (Whole Chapter)
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


and if you missed it Al Davidson.... I did say only God will know whether these ppl were ignorant of the things concerning thier salvation.

In the end, yes homosexuality is a sin, and those who do not repent of it will have the same unfortunate end as the people in Sodom and Gomorrah, regardless of any argument you have.

Am i some kind of bigot for making such a blount statement? If your answer is yes, take it up with God and his written Word.


edit : And yes i am fully aware about the current popular teaching about the New Covenant and that the 10 commandments is abolished, worship on sunday etc etc. but i believe in other things.

[edit on 21-4-2006 by Shortness]

Originally posted by Shortness

Originally posted by Al Davison
I think Shortness is talking himself in circles here. I hope he didn't get dizzy typing all that.

So, it's OK to sin if you didn't know that was a sin and that applies to all the sins except, obviously, any homosexual daliances since we're all born knowing that this is sin. So, even those devout Christians who have been studying their bibles for about 50 years but just never noticed that stuff about the shrimp cocktails and the barbecued ribs well, that's not really a sin.

Actually, you missed the current popular Christian argument about how Jesus's New Covenant said it was OK to eat that stuff. I've heard that one a few hundred times. Still, the part about not being allowed to plant different crops in the same field and wear clothes made of different blends of fabrics and such...well, nobody ever seems to really pay much attention to those sins so, they must be OK and the bible was just having some fun with you on those, right?

The greatest of all the abominations according to the bible; the one that is way, way bigger than the others in this list is....hmmm...it doesn't really say, does it?

But, the Radical Christian Right tells us very clearly that G-d really meant that all that other stuff was OK but, not homosexuality. Thank heavens we have the Right Reverend Falwell to clear all that up for us.

Onward Christian Soldiers!

since you don't even know what it means when the bible says "at these times of ignorance God winked at"

I have a bible text for you...

Matthew 7:6 (Whole Chapter)
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


and if you missed it Al Davidson.... I did say only God will know whether these ppl were ignorant of the things concerning thier salvation.

In the end, yes homosexuality is a sin, and those who do not repent of it will have the same unfortunate end as the people in Sodom and Gomorrah, regardless of any argument you have.

Am i some kind of bigot for making such a blount statement? If your answer is yes, take it up with God and his written Word.


edit : And yes i am fully aware about the current popular teaching about the New Covenant and that the 10 commandments is abolished, worship on sunday etc etc. but i believe in other things.

I do agree however, that Roman Catholicism and Radical Christians using secular authority to get homosexuality laws and abortion laws in this country will lead this country to ruin. I believe this to be true considering I believe the time comes it will be these very organizations that will pave the way for the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast.

[edit on 21-4-2006 by Shortness]

I am shock!!
God and Jesus never nerver spoke or wrote about Homosexuality.
I am sick and tired of so call Christian hiding behind a Bible to express
their hatered against a group of people.
I know this for a fact MAN WROTE THE BIBLE NOT GOD OR CHRIST.
The Bible was wrote so man had some laws to be governor by and to teach
man to respect and love one another.
I just love, how some Christian are first to point out some one elses sin as long as that we don't look in there back yard. ya I like that !!!
Some men are born Homosexual and that is a fact! it is not a choice.
There is nothing wrong with a man who love another man, it is normal.
and as far as people who think their straight and think gay sex is offensiven I let you know many Homosexuals think straight sex is disgusting. There is only one God and its not a fearful God, as Christian want you to believe.
God loves all his children.
Religion is not for straight people I didn't see where it says in the Bible that Christianity is only for straight people.
People need to wake up here, gays where here long before the Bible was ever written. Not to mention, but Homosexuality has been here on earth sence the dawn of man. And thats a fact!

I am openly gay. if you have any questions feel free to ask. Please no insults. I get enough of those at work.

[edit on 21-4-2006 by Ford Farmer]

I am a christian but I am not trying to back up anything that other christians have done or said in reguards to homosexuality but here are my thoughts. I completely agree that christians are to love others jesus said the two most imporatant commandments are to Love God and Love others. However i do not believe there is as much of a connection between disagreeing with homosexuality and hatred as you assume. I know there are many christians out there who live in ways that completely contradict what they profess and give us a bad name but i cannot account for them. I do not hate homosexuals but i do believe that homosexuality is a sin. I believe that Homosexuality is no different from other sins. The reason i believe this is because for anyone who reads the bible it is obvios that it is not God's design and that it is wrong in his eyes. Gods design in genesis shows his intention for heterosexuality. In the bible God took serious actions against sexual immorality which included homosexuality (such as Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19). There are tons of sins, some as horrible as rape and others as small as stealing. All of this to say that as a christian i believe that as a creature of God it is right... to live as God has created and commanded us to live and not to do so is a sin. I do not hate those who steal or those who are homosexuals. I do not think that everyone who is not like me is evil and i do not believe that my disapproval of homosexuality is hatred. I disagree with homosexuality because God does. I have many friends who are homosexuals and we contine to be great friends. However my deepest wish is for them to believe in and live a lifestyle that is pleasing to their creator. This is not theological argument for the existance of God but merely for a better view of a christian or better put a biblical view of homosexuals and homosexuality.

I don't think anyone can argue with the Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" nor the five commandments regarding our dealings with one another "don't kill, steal, cheat on your wife/husband or with anyone else's wife/husband, lie (false witness), respect for your parents (because they gave you something you can never pay them back for: existence)". They give us a humane and dignified way of interacting with one another. "Human rights", if you will.

The countless other laws regarding cosher foods, sexual perverisons, hemming your garments in a certain fashion may or may not have come from "God". But the one thing they probably aided was the faithful's survival. There were STDs in those days. In Psalms, David lamented sores on his loins because of his immorality. Good reason to not be promiscuous nor to be homosexual or visit temple prostitutes (boys and men). Shellfish, beans, nuts are super dangerous to some people with killer allergies. Shellfish can be dangerous to anyone if they are caught in "Red Tide". Hemming garments stops them from unraveling. How to deal with slaves was in essence "slave rights" - barbaric by our standards, liberal by theirs. Why, when you go to war with a people do you kill every last one (even babies)? Because the survivors will want revenge. If you need to war, completely obliterate the other side. Don't charge usury (interest) when you loan money (because back then a person who defaulted on a loan became a slave you would be responsible for the degredation of your fellow).

Same goes for martial arts. "Self defence" is a PC way of saying "if you ever need to fight, fight 'till your opponent is on the ground and not moving. Mean it. Finish it. No mercy."

Anywho, homosexuals today, like in the old days, are promiscuous and have a way, way higher rate of STDs and AIDS than any other group except intravenous drug users. It is (was) a sin because it's a dangerous lifestyle (no matter the 1 couple in a thousand that get "married").

And that's the way I see sin: anything I do that puts myself or others at risk is a sin. At the time of it's writing the Bible (Torah, all its forms) was a set of instructions that helped the human machine run at peak efficiency. Most (though not all) is still invaluable today. And since no one can live without sinning I think the most basic point of the Bible is to try your best to better your standard of living (I'm not talking the hedonistic, pleasure-seeking kind) and help your fellows get though this #hole we call life.

-S

im non denominational myself, mainly because theres no mention of a single religion in the bible...but anywhoever.... when our time on earth is over, we will all return to the creator (God, yhwh, jesus, vishnu, buddah, zeus, the man on the moon, or maybe all of them at once). We will be viewed based on our actions on earth and if we have fulfilled the comandment to love one another as ourselves, not based on our relgious afiliations, or the dogmas of our relegious affiliations for that matter.

Relgions that claim exclusive salvation and damn the rest, are in for a DEVISTATING attitude adjustment. We enter the world accountable for our actions and we leave accountable.

I dare all...prove me wrong.

If I may add actually...on the subject of homosexuality itself..... its very unnatural, theres no doubt about that. Men and when (even anatomically) where made for eachother. If you have doubts about that, ask yourself...do penises belong in anuses? And I agree, being gay is risky business and dangerous. Gay people dont typically live comfortable joyfull lives. It causes pain, which in my 15 years of theological study of the bible, is the sole reason we arent supposed to do it.

Now if the concept of being born homosexual is a form of mental conditioning purpetrated by the media....well thats another story....

I think too many people INCLUDING Christians are missing the point. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality because homosexuals are bad people. It has to do with allegory.

Ephesians 5:
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

2 Corinthians 11:
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

The ideal picture is one wife to one husband for life. It is supposed to conform to a spiritual relationship between Christ (the bridegroom) and His church (the bride). No one who enters into marriage conforms to this allegory if they are not a virgin on the wedding night.

Does this mean that the divorced, adulterers or homosexuals will not go to heaven? NO! It only means that their life did not conform to the allegory of Christ and His church. Marriage, like a relationship with God, is based on faith.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Transpareny you are wrong. I am Gay and have been with my partner for 15 years
now and I am very happy with him. We where made for each other.
We live a wonderfull life I f you think your God didnt make man to love one another and to have sex with one another you are sadly wrong.
Not all of men where design to be with woman and yes man IS design to have sex with one another, you just cant stomach the idear. Not all men are to married and have children.
where do you think GAY people are born from ! from straight men and woman
you all gave birth to us, I was a GAY baby I was born GAY!
That joice crap save it!! you are not GAY so YOU do not know what it is to be GAY
You havent figgerd it out yet but every liveing species has a gay species in there group.
Now I will say this I love sex and yes I love it in the back door it feels GREAT!!!!
and it is clean sex Oh by the way most woman love it in the back door to and they will tell you they love it to. oooops I forgot to tell you somthing eles a lot of straight men love their wife to push a finger or two up the anuse while haveing sex
Some straight men love a vibrator in their anuse while haveing sex with their wife
Bet you didnt know that did you. So maybe its not a GAY thing after all.

By the way, I am going to Heaven, God told me so.
God loves his GAY children.
GOD did not WRITE the bible, MAN wrote the bible so please people quit trying to figger out what GOD is thinking because you all dont know no one knows.
A lot of you not all but some of you have a fearing condeming GOD!
I dont you see, my GOD only knows LOVE!! lol heck all I know he maybe GAY to.
I do know this, my GOD design Homosexuality he design us to feel these feeling
If it was not to be then it would not be DESIGN TO BE.
You all know what, I think my GOD is the right GOD!
ITS so funny you all say GOD SAID!!! LOL
No MAN SAID!! man said, man wrote GOD dose not need to write LOL
Wake up world!!