Christianity and Homosexuality....

I've known some pretty hatefull, violent 'gay bashers' in my days.

NONE of them were Christian.

Most had the same reguard for Christianity and God as Spamandham and Proton/Produkt.

Hatefull people are hatefull people. Sly people are sly people.

Sly people who hate Christians, love these threads that invite "Christian Bashing".

Oh, I nearly forgot, I was credited for 'turning' a bi-sexual man straight, but it was an "accident" through him adopting The Christian Faith he spent years trying to 'turn' me from.

He'd have made a great speaker at Diversity Day, if it wasn't cancelled to stop "Ex-Gays" sharing their life experiences in order to promote understanding and tolerance.

You have voted suzy ryan for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

I have voted you suzy because you make a good arguement. Although, I do not agree with you 100%, I still feel that this "censorship" is not the way we as a people want to get into. And yes, I do feel ( not entirely happy about it) the ex-kkk member (notice i said ex...) has the right to speak. Just like a kkk member has the right to speak. Just like an ex-gay member has the right to speak. Just like a gay person has the right to speak. This is coming from a gay man by the way. I sometimes really get sick and tired of some of the things that are done in the name of "the gay agenda" for lack of other words. I know we always don't see eye to eye (not you in particular suzy) but can't we just get along? Peace out my brothers and sisters.

As I said (more than once) in the diversity day thread, there is no such thing as an ex-gay person.

They are either gay and came out, and decided to lie to themselves and call themselves ex-gay, are bi-sexual or were initially just confused about there sexuality.

As a gay man, I can totally understand if someone wants to try to change their sexuality. I mean, I never could because I know myself...and I couldn't. I've actually tried. But, it still doesn't mean that someone (be him/her bisexual or not) has the right to speak at a diversity talk. I mean, we can't rule out all speakers if we are talking about diversity. Isn't diversity suppossed to mean diversity?

Yes but the so called "ex-gay" speakers were going to put down homosexuality, and say it's evil and other idiocentric ideological thinking like that.

True people should be allowed to speak at those kind of events, if they are not going to put another group down.

I'm sorry folks. My last couple of posts are in the wrong thread. I thought I was in the diversity day cancelled thread. My bad.

Yeah, the rejection of gays is really Old Testament. The Christians have long had a secret link with homosexuality in ritualized form, likely carried over from some old Egyptian rituals. This is Secret Mark, from:

www.earlychristianwritings.com...

From a letter attributed to Clemet of Alexandria:

To you, therefore, I shall not hesitate to answer the questions you have asked, refuting the falsifications by the very words of the Gospel. For example, after "And they were in the road going up to Jerusalem" and what follows, until "After three days he shall arise", the secret Gospel brings the following material word for word:

"And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, "son of David, have mercy on me". But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered , went off with her into the garden where the tomb was, and straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus thaught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan."

And these words follow the text, "And James and John come to him" and all that section. But "naked man with naked man" and the other things about which you wrote, are not found.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb.....they basically started sodomizing as we know it! there isnt any other way for a homosexual, male however, to make ''love'' without doing it the wrong way

Sorry bud, sodomy has been around since the dawn of man.....or do you actually believe the first homosexual appeared in Sodom? Ha ha ha ha! LOL!
....lots of other ways for homosexuals to make love without having anal sex (kissing, masturbation, oral sex...you know, just like straight people)
You need to quit stereotyping....

Originally posted by iori_komei
As I said (more than once) in the diversity day thread, there is no such thing as an ex-gay person.

You're wrong. Ever heard of a gay man that came out happy to explore his new found gay self/identity/sexuality........only to run into one diseased gay man after another (HIV, assorted heptitis's, clamidia, molluscum contagium, thrush, anal venereal warts, assorted funguses), outrageouly high promiscuousity, infidelity, gay men who have absolutely no sense of loyalty (once a gay man is sexually satiated, he moves on to the next guy), honesty (most gay men are honest individuals until it comes to relationships, love and sex), respect or sense of morals (when you "come out", you dump your old "straight" morals - considered Victorian and poo-pooed in the gay culture), who flit from bed to bed to bed. Almost every single study on the 'Net available on gay relationships indicates that only 2% of gay men are actually truly monogamous to their partners. Most supposedly monogamous relationships always have a partner who has gone outside for sex.

There are ex-gays out there....men who woke up to the lie of homosexuality. Found out it wasn't all it's cracked up to be....men who still realize they are homosexual by nature, but have chosen not to act on it after discovering the futility of gay relationships....seeing that they "truly" aren't meant to be.

Not every gay man discovers the sin of homosexuality...most embrace it and bathe in it's lust. They adhere to the "if it feels good" theory (do what thou wilt). It says somewhere in the Bible, that the first time you commit a certian sin, you feel bad about it, but the more you commit it, the less you feel guilty, until after awhile it just becomes part of your life.......when you're gay, it's easy to get caught in the trap, and not see what you're doing as sinful (why? because it's how you live your life).

I'm not bashing gays at all. Just speaking directly from experience.

Why would God make you imperfect and then condemn you for it?

If anybody can answer this question without any contradicting nonsense...

Originally posted by dmnqfndl
Why would God make you imperfect and then condemn you for it?

Has it ever occured to you that maybe God didn't cause the imperfection?
God has nothing to do with the choices we make in life. He doesn't make our choices, we do.
But he does lay down the law, and it's our choice to:
a.) Obey or
b.) Disobey
Whether you agree or disagree, whether you want to act on your homosexual desires or not, He made the law.

as with most relationships between 2 people, sex has little to do with it. Sex may be a natural outcome or perhaps "by-product" is a better term but, two people in love are in love for a whole lot more than the sex.

I pity anyone whose relationship is based primarily on sexual activity for they have not yet found true love. So, regardless of the genders of two people who are truly in love, I cannot see any "sin" or immorality in it.

Granted, there are promiscuous people in this world - with every possible combination of desires for men, women, and other beings of which I will not list. That's not love - that's just lust or just plain exercise of some sort.

I know many gay couples who are far more in love with their partners and are more monogamous than many heterosexuals. In fact, I think the ratio is probably about even across the board.

No amount of bible-thumping will ever convince me that G-d finds any displeasure in true love.

Originally posted by zerotolerance
Why would God make you imperfect and then condemn you for it?

Has it ever occured to you that maybe God didn't cause the imperfection?
God has nothing to do with the choices we make in life. He doesn't make our choices, we do.
But he does lay down the law, and it's our choice to:
a.) Obey or
b.) Disobey
Whether you agree or disagree, whether you want to act on your homosexual desires or not, He made the law.

But wait... I thought God was Omniscient, meaning he would know way ahead of time ALL your future sins... Now, if you KNEW prior that your creation was going to do things you despise and fail to meet your expectations, why would you create it? So, if God MADE YOU WITH AN IMPERFECTION, he caused it!

P.S. -----> I don't have any homosexual desires.

Originally posted by Al DavisonI know many gay couples who are far more in love with their partners and are more monogamous than many heterosexuals. In fact, I think the ratio is probably about even across the board.

No freaking way....you obviously don't know many homosexuals. And like most homosexual couples your gay friends are hiding their dirt from you to retain some respect. Trust me on this one. I know because me, my friends and all the gay couples I've ever known did their best to keep their families and straight friends completely in the dark about their affairs, liasons, tricks and general sleaze. Gay men will do everything possible to make their lifestyle look clean, respectable and healthy to prove the straight world otherwise. But it's a lie.

Are you gay? No, I didn't think so. Until you live, breathe, eat, sleep and **** like a gay man, then you don't know squat about gay culture (especially from your gay friends). I know dude. Don't tell me, I lived that way for 15 years. Gay men don't fall in love; they fall in lust. Keep a gay man's penis hard and he's "in love". As soon as the fire dies down he's "not in love anymore". When the lust (which gay men confuse with love) dies, so does the relationship, because in the end, the sex is what breaks or makes the relationship. Yes, gay relationships center around sex exclusively. Don't believe me? Pick up any gay periodical, newspaper or literature and sex is ALWAYS at the forefront. In the gay world monogamy is made fun of and frowned upon. Very sad indeed. That lifestyle is a lie. It promises wild, unbridled sex and that's about it. Nothing more. If you're looking for long-lasting love, trust, honesty, loyalty in a partner....you will never find it in a gay relationship. Never. Maybe for awhile, but it will not last (unless you go the codependent route and "open" your relationship to allow outside sex or "three-ways" - something widely accepted and practiced among gay couples - in fact, these relationships way outnumber monogamous ones). Trying to find a truly monogamous gay man is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Been there, done that. It doesn't exist.

Trying to find a truelly monogamous man in general is a far cry. Don't believe me? Go to your areas Craigslist and go to the men seeking men section. About 90% of the ads on their are for "married" guys who want to have sex with other men. Warning ladies, they show pictures and all. But beware also because you just might see your husband on there.

Originally posted by Griff
Trying to find a truelly monogamous man in general is a far cry. Don't believe me? Go to your areas Craigslist and go to the men seeking men section. About 90% of the ads on their are for "married" guys who want to have sex with other men. Warning ladies, they show pictures and all. But beware also because you just might see your husband on there.

Yes, monogamous men in general are rare, but there's something about women, kids and a marriage certificate that keep most straight men in line (maybe fear is a factor here). It is also taboo (mostly) in our heterosexual American culture, to cheat on your wife. It is looked down upon, and men that do it are considered deadbeats. Not so in the gay world - it's every bit the norm there.

And you are so on the mark about the men-seeking-men in almost every "personals" section of every American newspaper. I did the personal ads years back and I can honestly say that 90% of the men that answered my ads were married, didn't want to leave their wife, but wanted hot sex with a man. At first I was shocked, but now it's no suprise. I sometimes think the "closet cases" in our country, far outnumber the gay men who are actually out and about. Unfortunately they can't come to terms with their feelings and live a life full of lies to the woman that loves them. I've seen all kinds, I especially liked the ones who after sex with you, claim they are not gay, but they just like big bulging muscles and a penis in their mouth. There's a ton of that kind out there.

well, now you aren't talking about gay men or love. You're talking about lustful, promiscuous people who are just looking for sex.

There are an estimated 30 million gay and lesbian people in the USA - count the number of ads you see and tell me if that adds up to 30 million. Naturally, you are not going to see monogamy featured prominently in places where people advertise for casual sexual encounters. I mean, just look at all the married women who advertise for sexual encounters - you think that represents all married women?

If you've had bad relationship experiences, I am sorry and I hope you'll find true love some day. But, it is childish and naive to project your bad experiences on an entire population. Look at the divorce rate among heterosexual couples - I've been happily married (to a woman - yes, I am heterosexual) for over 25 years. That doesn't mean that I get to project that every couple who marries will have the same experience.

As an aside: how does this thread qualify as a conspiracy? I've seen much more conspiratorial threads get bumped to BTS very quickly.

[edit on 18-4-2006 by Al Davison]

Al. You're absolutely right in saying that it is foolish of us to lump all men like that. I just wanted to point out all the men out there who do have sex with other men while being "monogomously married". I believe they think as Bill Clinton does that oral sex is not sex and therefore they're not cheating.

As far as the conspiracy....I think we've lost it a while back.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


Bible says that before Christ 2nd coming the days will be like in Lots day in Sodom and Gomorrah.

What specifically is it referring to? Homosexuality.

I mean seriously, where do you think the word sodomy came from??

Originally posted by zerotolerance

Originally posted by iori_komei
As I said (more than once) in the diversity day thread, there is no such thing as an ex-gay person.

You're wrong. Ever heard of a gay man that came out happy to explore his new found gay self/identity/sexuality........only to run into one diseased gay man after another (HIV, assorted heptitis's, clamidia, molluscum contagium, thrush, anal venereal warts, assorted funguses), outrageouly high promiscuousity, infidelity, gay men who have absolutely no sense of loyalty (once a gay man is sexually satiated, he moves on to the next guy), honesty (most gay men are honest individuals until it comes to relationships, love and sex), respect or sense of morals (when you "come out", you dump your old "straight" morals - considered Victorian and poo-pooed in the gay culture), who flit from bed to bed to bed. Almost every single study on the 'Net available on gay relationships indicates that only 2% of gay men are actually truly monogamous to their partners. Most supposedly monogamous relationships always have a partner who has gone outside for sex.

There are ex-gays out there....men who woke up to the lie of homosexuality. Found out it wasn't all it's cracked up to be....men who still realize they are homosexual by nature, but have chosen not to act on it after discovering the futility of gay relationships....seeing that they "truly" aren't meant to be.

Not every gay man discovers the sin of homosexuality...most embrace it and bathe in it's lust. They adhere to the "if it feels good" theory (do what thou wilt). It says somewhere in the Bible, that the first time you commit a certian sin, you feel bad about it, but the more you commit it, the less you feel guilty, until after awhile it just becomes part of your life.......when you're gay, it's easy to get caught in the trap, and not see what you're doing as sinful (why? because it's how you live your life).

I'm not bashing gays at all. Just speaking directly from experience.

Haven't had an STD yet, I'm forty one and been 'at this' sort of thing for twenty years. Of course it could happen just isn't a given is all. Come to think of it many of my gay friends haven't had an STD either. Granted there's promiscuity, open relationships etc but there's monogamy too, that's an individual choice and if your life style makes you unhappy that much stop screwing around and settle down, there's enough gay ppl out there looking for the same thing.

As for suppressing your gayness and leading a hetrosexual lifestyle, do you have enough faith in the workability of the concept to be happy with me marrying your daughter and staying heterosexual.

Zero Tolerance, it could be argued that because you lived a certain lifestyle for 15 years that brought you into contact with similar minded people therefore you see mostly what you're involved in. On the contrary I'd say gay people are far more open about the nature and dynamics of there relationships whereas straight people keep their sexual idiosyncracies a lot more hidden for much the same reason you've applied to gays. It's no accident that the easier it's become to be promiscuous or unfaithful the more men and women fall prey to the temptation. I'm not excusing it just saying it's flawed to apply some pure intent to heterosexual relationships and a tainted one to homosexual.


[edit on 20-4-2006 by ubermunche]

[edit on 20-4-2006 by ubermunche]