Ancient airplane runways

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posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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I heard that people found ancient airplane runways in south america, I was wondering if anybody could expand on this.




posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 01:25 AM
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Actually what they are is a series of straight lines laid out in a grid pattern that can only be seen from the air. They don't know WHAT they were for. One person put forth that they were an ancient spaceport, and they were runways for landing space craft. But nobody knows what they are for sure.

There are several giant figures laid out in the area, and they were jokingly called a spaceship landing area, and someone apparently heard the joke and put forth a theory that it really WAS.


It is difficult to take von Dänekin seriously, especially since his "theory" is not his own and it originated in jest. Wrote Paul Kosok (1947), the first to study the markings: "When first viewed from the air, [the lines] were nicknamed prehistoric landing fields and jokingly compared with the so-called canals on Mars." Moreover, one cropped photo exhibited by von Däniken (1970), showing an odd configuration "very reminiscent of the aircraft parking areas in a modern airport," is actually of the knee joint of one of the birds figures (Woodman 1977). (See Figure 1.) The spacecraft that parked there would be tiny indeed.
Nazca lines
FIGURE 1. Etched upon the Nazca plains in Peru are giant drawings like these. Their large size has fueled speculation that they were drawn with the aid of "ancient astronauts" or by sophisticated surveying techniques, the secrets of which are lost.
Closer to earth, but still merely a flight of fancy, in my opinion, is the notion of Jim Woodman (1977) and some of his colleagues from the International Explorers Society that the ancient Nazcas constructed hot-air balloons for "ceremonial flights," from which they could "appreciate the great ground drawings on the pampas." If one believes that the theory is also inflated with hot air, one must at least give Woodman credit for the strength of his convictions. Using cloth, rope, and reeds, Woodman and his associates actually made a balloon and gondola similar to those the Nazcas might have made had they actually done so. Woodman and British balloonist Julian Nott then risked their lives in a 300-foot-high fly-over of the Nazca plain. Their balloon was descending rapidly and after they had thrown off more and more sacks of ballast they jumped clear of their craft some ten feet above the pampas. Free of the balloonists' weight, the balloon shot skyward and soared almost out of sight, only to finally crash and drag briefly across the ground.
The Nazca markings are indeed a mystery, although we do know who produced them--von Däniken notwithstanding. Conceding that Nazca pottery is found in association with the lines, von Däniken (1970) writes: "But it is surely oversimplifying things to attribute the geometrically arranged lines to the Nazca culture for that reason alone."

www.onagocag.com...

[edit on 3/28/2006 by Zaphod58]



posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 01:30 AM
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If you do a search for Nazca Lines it should take you where you want to be.

They are, essentially, a series of "lines" scraped into the desert surface of...Peru, I think...which form huge outlines of animals and birds, which are only visible from above (like up in the sky, above).

Some of them are exceptionally straight, and go for quite long distances.

The fact that they are only visible, as a design, from higher altitude is what has fed the theory that they are some type of landing site for ufo's.



posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 01:32 AM
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sorry Zaphod58...I was writing while you were posting, apparently,,,and a much better post you did, too!



posted on Mar, 28 2006 @ 04:56 AM
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Although some of the lines do, superficially, look like 'runways' they were actually formed by scrapping away the surface of the desert floor. They are no more suited for a wheeled aircraft to land on than a ploughed field. We can be pretty sure they were not intended as runways



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 12:32 PM
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yeah but since they were not seen until earlier this century, some of them were farmed, and when you farm over them then stop the Nasca lines grow back. (can you say anti gravity?)

I have pics of many Nasca lines tourists do not see and you would be surprised (including a star map, plus english words -yeah thats right). many are also similiar to petroglyphs found all over south, central america and southwestern us but on a much larger scale. Many are carved on steep hillsides no Quecha athlete could have scraped or managed to get to. You can even see many Nasca lines from downtown Cuzco on the surrounding hills. All left over from the Virachocha (sea foam people) who went to Polynesia.

Read the english version of the "messages of the engraved stones of Ica" (available only in Peru) by Doctor Javier Cabrera for a little knowlede about the Nasca lines.

Those deserts in Peru are one of the 5 oldest geological plates in the world. Not only have they found dinosauar bones there alongside human (no cromagnon here folks) as well as petrified Dinosaur eggs, but also extinct five toed llammas, and the Nasca culture was not only tied into Polynesia, but those mummies in those deserts 4/5 of them are red haired or blond haired.... not to mention the Nasca pottery,textiles, culture and lines. Plus the wells that run under the nasca lines that were made with no mortar! Plus all the interesting Lake Titicaca ruins that use the "fingerprint" masonary the same as Machu Pichu and Easter Island, not to mention the underwater ruins at Bimini, and the island of Bahrain in the middle east... plus sites like Cahauchi (where nasca lines intersect the adobe buildings) and Chan Chan..

not to mention similiar pyrimids in areas of Peru as on the Canary islands off the coast of spain

Peru is defintily unique and I dont even think we have the capability to grasp all that has happened there. Red and white men lived side by side there in very ancient times as brothers.




[edit on 30-3-2006 by mosca]



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by mosca
yeah but since they were not seen until earlier this century, some of them were farmed, and when you farm over them then stop the Nasca lines grow back. (can you say anti gravity?)

I'm afraid you got this information from sites that wanted to prove that the Nazca were associated with aliens or had information that related to the author's pet theory. If you'll look at some of the non-"goshWow" sites, you'll learn that the Nazca lines are located in the middle of the Nazca desert. There are no farms there, and nobody has been able to farm there.


I have pics of many Nasca lines tourists do not see and you would be surprised (including a star map, plus english words -yeah thats right). many are also similiar to petroglyphs found all over south, central america and southwestern us but on a much larger scale.

We'd love to see them. Got links?

I do know that a number of sites have been damaged by tourists (I photograph one such site on a yearly basis.) The presence of English words isn't unusual.


Read the english version of the "messages of the engraved stones of Ica" (available only in Peru) by Doctor Javier Cabrera for a little knowlede about the Nasca lines.


Cabrera's been dismissed as someone so eager to accept New Age tales that he ignores any other facts. The Ica stones are hoaxes perpetrated by the villagers who got a lot of money for "digging up" the stones. The main perpetrators were Basilio Uchuya and his wife, Irma Gutierrez de Aparcana and their motive was that they needed the money and the rather gullible Cabrera and others were willing to give them a LOT of money for carved stones baked in dung:
www.csicop.org...



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 12:26 AM
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star map 130-133 of "arrival of the Gods" by Erik van Daniken. pg 39 shows a farm right next to a Nasca line.

Nasca lines and glyphs run in the Atacama desert, parts of Chile, the mexican Sonora desert, even as far north as California and Arizona (some up to 100 meters long). If you want to get technical with me, have you ever heard of the 5,000 "picture hills" burial mounds running from the Rocky Mountians to the Appalachians? There is even a glyph similiar to (above book) pg. 18 that can be seen in Florida. (and you wont find that in Danikans book find it yourself) Do you know the snake mound of Ohio is a Hopi symbol? That comes from the Hopi people directly.

I dont provide links to closed minded people. Do your own daXm research use a library and read for once.

As for the Cabrera stones: because they actually validate what the indiginous people say, they are dismissed as fakes by closed minded non-indiginous peoples such as yourself with their own agenda. Next time you are in Peru get his book like I did and read pg. 40-84

[edit on 11-4-2006 by mosca]



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
I do know that a number of sites have been damaged by tourists (I photograph one such site on a yearly basis.)

I am curious as to what you are photographing?

=====================

Apologies for that being my only addition to the thread with pertinant discussion, but unprovoked flames grate me intensly...........


Originally posted by mosca
I dont provide links to closed minded people.

I have read Byrd's posts for almost to years - by far one of the most open minded people on this board.


Originally posted by mosca
Do your own daXm research use a library and read for once.

Are you in a habit of cursing a poster when unporvoked? Is this your persona in the real world as well?
If you've bothered to read any of Byrds posts (obviousdly not), you would find she is both very literate and quite knowlegable.

It's difference of opinion - hardly a hostility provoking action.

NN



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 03:49 AM
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Interesting thread which has been covered here on this site before. I could say some deep things about this topic but I won't...

All the same it is annoying when self appointed experts chime in at every topic they know nothing about.

The nazca lines were so interesting that the following agencies studied them in secret and I have no proof except for my contacts: NASA, Catholic Church and secret service agencies of several well known countries. Why? simple really, the perceived alien aspects.

Calling cards if you will.



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by moscaI dont provide links to closed minded people. Do your own daXm research use a library and read for once.


Originally posted by denythestatusquo
All the same it is annoying when self appointed experts chime in at every topic they know nothing about.
My emphasis.
Hey mosca and deny....,
Byrd has not appointed herself an expert, she was appointed by the ATS Staff. You bunch of fools here don't get around even this section of ATS very much, do you?
Byrd is a Bona Fide anthropologist, morons.

Good Gawd, it's embarrassing reading some of the posts here sometimes. Let me apologize to you for these ignorant seekers of knowledge, Byrd.

They know not what they do.


Originally posted by denythestatusquo
The nazca lines were so interesting that the following agencies studied them in secret and I have no proof except for my contacts: NASA, Catholic Church and secret service agencies of several well known countries. Why? simple really, the perceived alien aspects.


Typical horse# peddling. "I know this, but I have no evidence." It's good in the garden, but nobody should swallow it.

Well, denythestatusquo, then by the exact same token, I know you are lying, but your post is the only evidence I have. Gee, looks like I have more evidence than you.

Harte



posted on Apr, 11 2006 @ 10:10 PM
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Too bad you can't see anything, but here's a little something for the Google Earth users... At least it shows you where they are.

Nazca Lines



posted on Apr, 12 2006 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by mosca
I dont provide links to closed minded people. Do your own daXm research use a library and read for once.

As for the Cabrera stones: because they actually validate what the indiginous people say, they are dismissed as fakes by closed minded non-indiginous peoples such as yourself with their own agenda. Next time you are in Peru get his book like I did and read pg. 40-84


Ah, I was going to flame you for your absolute ignorant statement. But members before me pointed out to you that Byrd is without question the most intelligent and informed person on this topic (and similar topics) on this forum! She probably wrote half the books you're reading in your library!


Er... Sorry... Am I flaming?

My point was that if you state that you have "evidence", you should put up or shut up. It's an unwritten rule on ATS that if you make a claim you should back it with something or get dismissed with contempt. That's the whole point of this board. To share information. Not to tell each other to go do your own research. That would be completely pointless.

It would be like me telling you that I have an alien living in my basement, but I'm not going to show him to you because you have to find your own alien. Share to inform. What you're doing is denying information - not ignorance.

Edit: Back to the topic...
Erich von Daniken's theories paved the way to get him on the (unofficial) "Lunatic Ideas Hall of Fame", which kinda tells you exactly what people thought of his book and ideas. And it's been proven time and again that Chariots of the Gods contains fraudulent evidence (such as faked pottery with fake pictures of fake flying saucers). There are just too much questions as to why aliens would need a couple of lines and pretty pictures of Pelicans, etc. to land their UFO. The theory holds little water - interesting as it may be.

[edit on 12-4-2006 by Gemwolf]



posted on Apr, 12 2006 @ 05:11 AM
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A Challenge For The Open-Minded


Originally posted by mosca
I dont provide links to closed minded people.

No problem. I have a very open mind.

So let's see some links.

Otherwise, I would be inclined to think you were being less than honest when you posted this:


Originally posted by mosca
I have pics of many Nasca lines tourists do not see and you would be surprised (including a star map, plus english words -yeah thats right).

Of course, in the spirit of Denying Ignorance, I want to do what I can to help you get these pictures out, so here's a link to ImageShack. It's a free image hosting service that's very easy to use.

All you need to do is upload some of those images you have and post the links here for us.

One good link deserves another, don't you think?


[edit on 4/12/2006 by Majic]



posted on Apr, 12 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Since Links seem to be wanting for, see the following.

images.google.com...,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:en&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title

Pictures along with followup links to various site and various comments.

Still there is nothing more than speculation noted, and no attempt to consider other ways these lines and depicitions could be placed without some influence from the Air or Space Visitors.

Keeps the Door ajar for Aliens as the only option, I guess.

The problem with things like this is we forget that simple guideline.

K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid.

Anyone heard of "The Firmament"? Ancient Cultures confirm it once was there. But since it is no longer here, we simply assume, it never was, and this earth has always been like it is today.

www.newadvent.org...

Heres a Catholic perspect, (not that I am one), but it may lead to some thought on this, and individual searches to confirm this premise.

The truth is out there. We just ignore it.

And if you have questions, feel free to ask.

Ciao



posted on Apr, 15 2006 @ 12:19 PM
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yeah majic I can see your point.













here is small sample. I have two more jpgs to get up (the best ones including the "star map", both of which are over the 1024kb limit of imageshack. Once i fiqure out how to get them up I will post them.

As far as Danikens book goes I never said i buy his theory I just said it is a great place for pics of Nasca lines not often seen. In address to the original question of this thread in my opinion it is impossible to try to understand the Nasca lines (as ancient UFO runways or just Quecha holy scrape drawings) without at least considering the Cabrera stones, the Nasca textiles and pottery, the puquios (they actually contain granite) and local indiginous oral history.

As far as Cabrera goes: Several other individuals earlier then Cabrera tried very hard to validate the authenticity of the Cabrera stones (Soldi bros., Agurto Calvo, and others), and in some cased managed to do so back to Inca and pre-Inca cultures. It wasn't until Cabrera tried to push it back to the millions of years old that people began to have a hard time with their authenticity. He basically beleives they are from the Mesosoic era, which in turn places homo sapien man in the same ancient time frame. (I cant say I can swallow that far back, but I do beleive they are from an ancient pre-deluge humanity) If they are even 250,000 years old, his theories as well as their authenticity would destroy the current historical and scientific version of not only the antiquity of the original Peruvians but also all of mankind on earth. It also would demonstrate that ancient man developed a spiritual and technological society uncomparable even today. But what if he is right? What if? If he is right what better topic to address on an ancient and lost civilization that the proposed most ancient and most lost?

When Basilio Uchuya and Senora Aparcana were taken into custody by the PIP and questioned, they had to say the falsed the stones or go to jail as "huaqueros". Can you blame them? In an effort to deny ignorance I will say a lot doesnt add up. The forgers time frame and rate of production doesn't match up. (if they made 3 stones a day over the 10 years they gave for a time frame they were forging stones they would have actually needed 23 years) Where they dug the etimated 25,000 stones were not the two small pits they showed the reporters. They even contradicted themselves in their own confessions. The same false stone was used in both articles as evidence they were fake. These pheasents would have had to have been masters at knowing extinct animals anatomy, reproductive cycles, star/comet knowledge, surgery, and acupuncture, and anti-gravity technology to say the least to forge all of these stones. Many of the stones in Cabreras and others collections were larger then the size of an orange (the forgers said they only made ones the size of an orange) some hundreds of times larger then an orange.

Cabrera actually claims to be able to tell the difference between "genuine" and "fake" stones, among which his ability to interpret the drawing, level of oxidation on the stone, type of stone, scoring method etc. He also claims the ones he consideres genuine are from an era he labels gliptolithic humanity. Later pre Inca and Inca cultures made some stones of their own, but even is some gravesites true Cabrera stones were found among the later indicating they may have found some of the depots. In 1976 Daniken and the cheif architect of NASA (Joseph Blumrich) were shown examples of "fake" and "genuine" stones by Cabrera and under the microscope the difference was indisputable. Cabrera also took four stones he felt were genuine and had them analyzed. In 1967 Eric Wolf (geologist-Maricio Hochschild mining co. in Lima) and Dr. Fernando de la Casa and Dr. Cesar Satillo (Facultad de Minas of the Lima Tech College) and both confirmed the level of oxidation on the stones was at least several thousand years old.

in his defense some of the tools and implements indicated in some of the stones have been found in the same geological stratum as dinosaurs (as well as homo sapien bones), some of the stones support things like tectonic plate shifting, space travel, and cogintive energy, and he also predicted Kohetek but who knows I cannot sum up his 256 page book in this thread but here is what i feel applies to the original ?

He feels these stones are a record left over from a prev tech advanced society who used their technology for good. Their spiritual and intellegent society can be interpreted in some of the Nasca lines like the monkey, killer whale, hummingbird. He also warns modern man that because industrilization and misuse of the earth that because we lack the ability to harness cognitive energy for long distance space travel like these former inhabitants could we are dooming ourselves and creating another deluge we can not flee from (as many of these former inhabitants did to the Pleides). He also claims what many others do that the lines are ancient runways, as part of the anti gravity and world grid.

as for the jpgs, the one with the pottery is an example Cabrera used to demonstrate ancient space travel, ie it is the landing and take off of an ancient spacecraft. He asserts how many of the pottery and textiles use the same three levels of communication as the "genuine" Cabrera stones.

All together they make up an alleged giant record of pre-historic events, that not only contradicts the "way it is" but also validates history from an indiginous perspective from not only Peru but other areas of the world. An unfortunately, indiginous perspective is not easily listened to by sceintists, archeologists, and even some members of this forum, but what do I know with my 47 ats points after all.

I for one consider the Nasca lines a really cool topic and I cannot say I beleive these stones are millions of years old i definitley beleive they are hundreds of thousands of years old but bottom line the Nasca lines can only been seen from the air and go beyond the borders of Peru.

Another interesting thing on some of these Nasca glyphs is some look like cave glyphs from all over the world. I'll get some jpgs up soon. I have an interest in ancient worldwide rock drawings and thier similarities and I fascinated by the fact that many Nasca lines/glyphs resemble cave petroglyphs on a much larger scale. www.morien-institute.org...
www.morien-institute.org...

i'd hate to be a self appointed expert and chime in on every topic here but

Here is an example: www.viewzone.com... of a kokapelli petroglyph from Scandanavia, this is a diety known among the Hopi people in particular as a helper of mankind and one of the distributors of mankind around the world after the flood. note the reed boat, and think of all of Perus ties to reed boats and Polynesias ties to reed boats and South America.

some dudes site with pics of colorado glyphs
www.poweredparaglidingcolorado.com...

a little background on some of the southwestern goeglyphs, as well as give you an idea of how sacred they are to the individual tribes.... i personally do not beleive they are tied into the world grid but they are interesting to look at
jan.ucc.nau.edu...

picture of a European geoglyph for the really curious: www.morien-institute.org... that can only be seen from the air. Note sure if it is made of chalk like many Uk glyphs are or not



www.sinay.com...
www.viewzone.com...

two different rock drawings very similiar in two different places.























[edit on 15-4-2006 by mosca]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 04:10 PM
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www.mueske.net...

star map.



posted on Apr, 17 2006 @ 06:36 AM
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Well I've definitely not seen that 'star map' before. Thanks!


Interesting that it's not drawn on level ground - so the lines dip down into gullies and back up again, for example (centre of picture).

Can you tell us any more about it?



posted on Apr, 19 2006 @ 04:23 AM
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Its located about 12 mins flight from the Nasca strip that tourists see in the Palpa mountians. Its over a kilometer long, and the not flat surface it is imprinted on made no difference to the artist. Find the center of the middle circle, and look just to the right of that at the symbol. It is unique and the other two circles do not have that.

Oh yeah nearby is a "chessboard" grid pattern that glints in the sunlight that is very similiar to modern day VASIS or PAPI grid patterns used by pilots for landing aircraft.





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