Quest for human driven alternative electricity.

I am investigating the viability of alternatives to grid energy in the event of collapse. Primarily different ways of keeping car batteries charged, as these would be readily available in such a situation.

Solar is obviously the simplest, however it has a high initial cost and low gain.

I have concluded the most practical outlet (har) is bicycle driven generators.

This leads to two routes: DC motors and automobile alternators.

Alternators have the advantage of, typically, having voltage regulators built in. If driven at a high enough RPM, a bicycle could keep a car battery charged fairly efficiently. This also carries the advantage of availability, as with the batteries themselves.

DC motors however require additional regulation and circuit protection. A diode must be used to keep the target battery from turning the motor. Unregulated, a DC motor can output hundreds of volts, which can also be quite useful. Many 110VAC devices will run perfectly fine off DC.

So I remain undecided as to which avenue to pursue. I seek any input on the matter as well as any conclusions others have come to with their own investigations into the practicality of human powered generators.

I think one major portion of this that should be looked into, is how to harness wasted energy/work that results from a human. An example of this are the specialized backpacks you can wear. When you walk, you create an up/down motion. The weight of the backpack is powered up by your legs, but when it's pulled down by gravity it's essentially wasted. Nothing usefull has come of that energy. However, these backpacks have a special system of coils/magnets and springs, so when the backpack is pulled back down to earth, the work is put into the small generator, and it can charge a battery pack stored in the backpack. This can then be used to power portable devices, mp3 players, cell phones, gps etc.

This is just one brilliant design, think about all of the other wasted work we do throughout the day. Hell, what about shoes with small springs/generators in them that create electricity when you walk? Im' sure there's something out there already like this hehe, but just think, it could keep your feet warm on a wintery day, and if you attatch two metal spikes on the end, not only could you fend of someone with a swift stabbing kick to the kidney, but they'd get a nice zap as well =P

Keep in mind you need a 12v source to excite the field of an alternator.
Which means, if you're using the main battery for an excitation source and it's dead the alternator won't charge.

Generators will charge due to they have residual magnetism.


I note that trailer supply outfits carry small solar panels that will keep a 12v battery topped up.
Price is right around $100.


(Edited to add a little more electric stuff.)

[edit on 27-3-2006 by Desert Dawg]

Originally posted by apc
I am investigating the viability of alternatives to grid energy in the event of collapse. Primarily different ways of keeping car batteries charged, as these would be readily available in such a situation.

Solar is obviously the simplest, however it has a high initial cost and low gain.

I have concluded the most practical outlet (har) is bicycle driven generators.

This leads to two routes: DC motors and automobile alternators.

Alternators have the advantage of, typically, having voltage regulators built in. If driven at a high enough RPM, a bicycle could keep a car battery charged fairly efficiently. This also carries the advantage of availability, as with the batteries themselves.

DC motors however require additional regulation and circuit protection. A diode must be used to keep the target battery from turning the motor. Unregulated, a DC motor can output hundreds of volts, which can also be quite useful. Many 110VAC devices will run perfectly fine off DC.

So I remain undecided as to which avenue to pursue. I seek any input on the matter as well as any conclusions others have come to with their own investigations into the practicality of human powered generators.

I dont think you need to worry about electricity, nuclear power plants will always provide suficient energy and it does not reqire oil.
As for the rest, cars, engines , heating, usualy things that use fuel as oil I think water is the answer.
Hidrogen from water will be the next generation that will replace oil.
Spliting the hidrogen and "oxigen" from water and then combining it again as fuel creates a burn procces, stronger in fact, the flame that it produces is higher in temperature than oil, gas and it's reusable, the flame burning turns back to water.
There is the 0 point energy but it's research and a little break thru progress
SO i think the next generation is all hidrogen.



[edit on 27-3-2006 by pepsi78]

Intersting. The backpack idea is one I had not considered. While I am really looking for solutions to providing alternatives to grid power, this backpack generator could be used to supplement primary power storage. Discharging the pack batteries into the primary supply battery.

And yes using a solar panel to provide a low output charge is a secondary method I have been considering. It would indeed be beneficial to have a constant charge source for when primary charging was not active (not peddling).
I was however unaware of the need for voltage presence to energize an alternator. Using a battery of known good charge or solar charged would accomplish this.

Excellent ideas. I like where this is going.

Pepsi78: I am interested in sources of power in the event that those nuclear power plants are not reliable. Having either been shut down, destroyed, or any other possible situation where grid power is unavailable.

Originally posted by apc
Pepsi78: I am interested in sources of power in the event that those nuclear power plants are not reliable. Having either been shut down, destroyed, or any other possible situation where grid power is unavailable.

Well you looking for fuel?
Nothing can produce more than nuclear energy.
But I told you water can be used as fuel.
It's the only way for now that would produce suficient power and it's clean.
By spliting oxigen from hidrogen and mixing them up with out integrating them back again in one just by mixing them a fuel is created.
All you need is a device that will split the molecules, it's fair simple, it's not much of a big deal.
First water is poored in a tank, from there it go's in to the procesor where oxigen is splited from hidrogen(water has hidrogen and oxigen) from there they go on 2 diferent pipe lines and they mix back in another container where the 2 elements just simply mix (not on a molecular level) if they would mix and become one they would become water again, the fuel burns
and after the burn what is intresting is that it becomes water again.
It's simple , clean no polution and reusable.
It's the best thing that can hapen, it would be a blesing.


So what can run a car is a bucket of water with out any special ingerdiants.
The burn proces is stronger than fosel fuel.




[edit on 27-3-2006 by pepsi78]

Or, zero point energy.
I am a fan of huchson, the theory is using batteryes that recharge them selfs from empty space.
Acording to string theory this would be posible.
The famos cristals for capturing energy has been proven that it can be turned in to electicity.
On the sub level of atomic particles there is an energy called 0 point energy
just in theory so far.
This type of energy can stick to rocks like minerals and stock in there.
This is known , like cristals that have energy in them and are used by people to do stuff with them like heal etc , rumors.
All this has taken a scientific side lately that such energy does stick to minerals and cristals.
I wached a clip where a battery is created and it runs with out the need of recharge because it recharges while it runs from empty space.
The proccess is sqashing a sort of mineral rocks and adding aluminium powder over them mixing them and giving them a so called charge, I dont know how that is done and I dont know what comes next in the proces of making such things.
It captured my atention on how it's done for a while but I could not find out the rest of the proccess so I gave the whole thing up.

Pepsi I appreciate your input. However, I thought I made it clear that I am looking for an alternative source of electricity in the event of a grid collapse. Meaning, if an earthquake/hurricane/nuke fight were to happen tomorrow, I wouldn't be able to run to my handy dandy electrolysis generator or ZPM.

Hydro gens, I would be able to put a turbine in river near my house and get power that way. PS: dont understand how you can make hydrolosis work if tere is no power.

If you want to read about something really out there as a method of creating alternative electricity, take a look at this project a couple of profs at my university did.

www.electricityforum.com...
physics.about.com...
www.findarticles.com...
azonano.com...
www.futurepundit.com...
www.newsfactor.com...
www.classscoop.sunherald.com.au...
www.blueverticalstudio.com...

Those are all articles on the same story. Basically, by forcing water through tiny 'microchannels', these guys were able to separate positive and negative charges, which produces a voltage, albeit a small one. Anyhow, I seriously doubt you can replicate this in your garage, since to make the microchannels would require sophisticated equipment But I post it here in the hopes that it will at least spark some creative ideas, or at least provide some interesting reading material.

10-micron-diameter-wide channels

two-centimetre wide glass disc cut by 480,000 holes

Thats wicked! I wish I could try that in my garage. I guess Ill have to stick to making lifters and marx generators for now... :...(


[edit on 28-3-2006 by imbalanced]

Check in with mother earth news. Great stuff on there. I download stuff all the tie for emergencies and just for fun.

Figured I'd update this thread as Ive made some progress, albeit not much as finances have been restricted.

Ive picked up a few 105AH deep cycle batteries. Right now they are just charged by a smart charger off the mains. They have come in useful many times as my area suffers frequent power outages.

I also have a bicycle training stand. I am going to be mounting a DC motor to be used as the generator.

Still investigating solar options. If anyone has a source for inexpensive panels in the 100-200watt range, do share. I'm even looking into stringing up a few hundred pocket calculator cells Those little suckers are 1.5V at around 0.2 watts. I am accepting donations of calculators! (seriously... please send me unused calculators )

Im also putting together my own charge regulator circuit that will also incorperate an ampmeter and "fuel guage" based on a preset amphour setting. It will actively monitor used amphours and adjust the reading accordingly.

I have not been able to come up with any other practical ideas for charging the batteries. Wind is out, so the best I can come up with is solar and pedal power, with emphasis on the latter. Any ideas out there?