Lucid's Abduction Experience (the Greys)

How can you be agoraphobic, yet be in 'wide open space'? Or is that meant as an anomaly?

Sorry, Lucid, a little OT.

-Sour (a tad on the agoraphobic side)

[edit on 27-3-2006 by SourGrapes]

Originally posted by highhorse313
Hi Lucid Lunacy,
Thank you for sharing your experience.

Thank you for listening =)

I completely agree that ET is not superior to human beings.

Agreed. But I think it's too premature to say we are more superior to them.

Their total involvement in our civilization over the years proves that they comprehend our uniqueness to the universe.

Do you have personal experience or are you referencing a paticular case you found convincing that would lead you to that?

The abduction experience reflects their commitment to helping us survive in spite of ourselves and rampant human ignorance.

Same as I said above.

I don't know who is above them in the heirarchy. Do you?

I'm not sure if there is a heirarchy as I only saw the 3 grey beings.

Some suggest the reptilians. No idea about that. Some suggest they are insectoids so they have a hive-mind which is the whole queen/workers heirarchy. Or maybe the Greys are their own bosses and they communicate telepathically (via tech?). I did not see/hear any communication.

[edit on 113131p://27u47 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by SourGrapes
How can you be agoraphobic, yet be in 'wide open space'? Or is that meant as an anomaly?

Sorry, Lucid, a little OT.

-Sour (a tad on the agoraphobic side)

How can I be both lucid and in a state of lunacy? Hehe.

Not much meant by it. I thought it was clever (prlly isn't). I do have a fear of wide open spaces. Not a crippiling phobia...a mild phobia, or perhaps medium. Possibly related to my fear of being spoted and taken

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

How can I be both lucid and in a state of lunacy? Hehe.

hmmm, how'd I miss that one? Must be late (thee mind).

Be careful in those open spaces.

-Sour (anxious for spring, when I shed the 'fear of the outside')

Originally posted by MrChipps
You begin your story by saying you were in the garage, which was converted into 2 bedrooms. Then you say they grabbed you by the ankle and were dragging you through the house. I thought you were in the garage?

I was gonna draw an illustration, I still will. I know I worded it kinda funky so I will rephrase it.

My garage is connected to the house. The garage was converted into two additional bedrooms. I was in one of those rooms. The Greys (actually just one of them) dragged me out of my room, through the hallway, through the living room and towards a sliding glass door which leads to my backyard.

Originally posted by isisinanna
It's great of you to share this experience, as it most surely is difficult to recount.

Well it's easy for me to discuss it during the daytime and harder to discuss during the late night

I have had many strange experience also

I am very interested in any ATS members personal experiences, so please share, if you're willing.

and I would agree with the first comment, you should ask you family if they have had similiar experiences.

I havnt directly talked to my sister about my experience but I know she is absolutely terrified about anything having to do with aliens. She has what you might call an "irrational fear of the Greys" (borrowed that from Ground_Zero). I have wondered though if that fear was fueled by an actual alien encounter. Unfortunately I don't want to ask her...let's just say she has her share of dramatic experiences (non-related).

Originally posted by isisinanna
I also had a strange experience & my best impression was that they were between 3.5 - 4 ft tall and I REMEMBER A HORRIBLE SMELL...it was like nothing I'd experienced before or since. A mixture of funky mold ~ mustiness and something else, that I can't quite describe accurately.
I felt that they were cold & cruel. I felt anger from them also, it could have been some other form of alien, I can't say for sure, I was too afraid to open my eyes fully.

Ah oops I should have read both your messages before I replied to your last one. Well if you could elaborate more on your experience, I sure would like to hear. Like where were you and what did they look like and did they see you, etc.

I don't remember any smells myself. Has that been reported in other cases? I can't recall any off the top of my head.

Originally posted by jritzmann
Lucid-
If you wouldnt mind answering these questions

Don't mind at all.

1) What nationality is you ancestory?

Hmm. I am a little less then 1/3 Native American Cherokee and the rest is pretty much German. Some other "white" in me but it's miniscule.

2) What is your I.Q.

I have no idea. I'm not entirely sure I accept the validity of those kinds of intelligence tests. Nor do I think I have ever come across a real I.Q. test. I am smarter then alot of people (whatever that means).

3) Do you have any experience with hallucinogenic drugs. (Not a trick question. At *any* time in your life, not matter how long ago)

I am not too familiar with the board rules so I will just say this:

I have done a couple different kinds of hallucinogenic drugs and only a few times at different points in my life (I'm 23). I did it for spiritual purposes. I did not take any drugs anywhere near the timeframe of my abduction.

4) Have you ever practiced whats called an "occult" religion, or toyed with anything "occult" related, i.e. oujia board, tarot, etc.

Yes just about every other day I would say. Esoteric studies, gnostic studies, the occult, Thelema (Crowley in general), kabbalah, i-ching, lucid dreaming, meditation, etc, etc... It's my passion.

You didn't ask but I am also very interested in alleged (human) paranormal abilities such as telekinesis, telepathy, etc. I approach this topic with much skepticism though.

5) Have you ever sighted what you believe to be a UFO before.

No I have not. Not that I am aware of.

During my abduction I was lead to a bright light that filled my entire vision and it blinded me from seeing what was in the backyard, if anything.

I've U2U-ed the answers I have found consistent with experiencers to Gazrok, a moderator here. If you feel comfortable enough to answer here, maybe he could post them after you answer. Just a little exersize in theory.

Sure. Id be interested in comparing my experience with the consistency of other cases. Question though: How did you sample that? How did you determine that consistency?

**edit: you pretty much answered the above question in ur other post**

Speaking of Gazrok. I had hoped he would join in. He seems to know alot about this.

[edit on 013131p://28u55 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by cl888
I told you, undress and spread broken glasses or nails or anything on the floor, when they drag you, the pain will wake you up.

You mean it would wake up my body? My mind was already awake.

If they joined ATS and read this forum, they might change their plan.

Hah! I suppose that is a potential risk. I have already confronted the member Alpha_Grey about this but it claims i'ts not involved

Originally posted by jritzmann
While the experience does transend some boundaries, there are ancestoral connections. I've used these questions on alot of experiencers, and they were developed over some 13-15 years of research where my research partner and I noted similarities.

Wow. Sorry I missed this part of the post when I replied to your other post. That's great man! I am definetly excited to see the comparison now!

He spoke of hypnosis, which is in my opinion a bad deal all around. The APA has long since detailed it's dangers, and determined that regression is dealing not with the part of the brain used for memory, but for fantasy and dream senarios. If the subject is already contaminated by the alien abduction thought, then thats the direction the session will go. Not only that, but many therapists are unable to question subjects without intentional or unitentional "leading".

It's been years since my abduction and I have not gone to a hypnotherapist for those reasons/concerns. I am working on a post called "Hypnoregression versus False-Memories" and I would love your feedback on that once I post it.

So far, I've found information on stricthnine, as regards curtailing paralysis. The problem is, it only works when the substance that is causing the paralysis has a particular chemical configuration and I believe it only works on particular parts of the nervous system. Since we don't know what is causing the paralysis: electromagnetic or biochemical, we have to assume that strichtnine is not an option. "If you were paralyzed from the neck down, something must've interfered with the signals in your brain stem, around the cervical vertebrae. Any lower, and you would be able to move some parts of your anatomy below your head. Could you move your head, btw? Blink? Lick your lips? Any facial control?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Then surely your t-shirt would also have these scratch marks on?

Very very hard to scratch yourself through clothing, not unless you put a knife, and even then it still needs to cut through your clothing to make the neccesary mark on your skin.

After reading this post I decided to put this theory to the test. I put on a short-sleeved light brown cotton shirt and scratched my chest through the shirt. I took off the shirt and low and behold there was scratch marks, and no visible indications on the shirt itself. As far as scratching pressure goes, on a scale of 1-10, I would say I scratched a 5 And I have average nails

Also note Iori_Komei and ImaginaryReality1984 both described instances contrary to what you said.

[edit on 013131p://28u17 by Lucid Lunacy]

Reviewing my posts throughout this thread and the responses to them I have come to realize I was using the word "paralysis" to mean both paralysis and numbness. Although the two may infact at times be synonymous with eachother, I should have seperated the ideas to begin with. I'm sorry for the confusion.

During my abduction:

1) I was paralyzed
2) I was completely numb to tactile sensation
3) I was unable to speak
4) I could see normally
5) I was fully cognitive

*When I say I could see normally I am talking about prior to being dragged towards the light, which was fairly blinding.

*It's possible I was unable to hear. I'm not sure. I was unable to speak (to test that) and the Greys were not making noises (at least I didn't hear any). I don't recall hearing anything actually, not even the sounds of being dragged.

*I have also determined in retrospect that I must have had at least a little movement in my eyes to of seen what I did.

*It's possible I was only paralyzed from the neck down. I am doing my best to recall good memories.

*I'm not sure about smell. I Don't recall any smells.

[edit on 043131p://28u00 by Lucid Lunacy]

The numbness was it a tingling sensation the whole time or simply no feeling at all? I had an epidural before I gave birth to my last child, and it numbed me from the chest down to my toes. It tingled at first, and then went completely numb. Do you recall if you could move your head from side to side? Hear? You could see, so the effect was apparently not on the brain tissues themselves, but on the spinal cord, in the area of the upper vertebrae

The sample was something my research partner and I found over files we collected on several cases we studied. I've studied the UFO phenomenon over the past roughly 20 years, mostly concentrating on photo and video analysis, and more on the interaction experiences for around 13 years. I facilitated the only support group in my state for many years, and also created and ran AES (Alien Experiencer Support) forum on AOL, a sub forum of Parascope. I lectured on photographic and video evidence, and also my experiences, and met alot of folks at those lectures, and after while a pattern just comes out.

I'm yet to see the pattern fail altogether...and you are no exception.

I have also had the experience in my life since 4 or 5 yrs old, I did post a thread on it at some point last week, however my wife had some reservations about that, which we're talking about. I removed the post and had the thread deleted...I may be able to share once she and I reach an agreement about how far I go. The experience had profound effects on both our lives, hers only after being married to me. (Yeah, along with being married to an artist, she's got that to deal with too.)

The sad part is, we've never figured out what the pattern actually means...only that it is. Here is what I sent Gazrok before I posted to you:

-------------------------------------------
rom: jritzmann
sent: 27-3-2006 at 10:05 AM
I'm posting some questions in this thread:
"Lucid's Abduction Experience (the Greys)"

..where I have askd him a series of questions. I believe there is a pattern of sorts in relation to "abductees", and these question can often be interesting.

The pattern and answers is as follows:
1) Irish/german
2) Above average I.Q.
3) Yes, most likely nothing serious.
4) Yes.
5) Yes. Most likely at a very young age before he even knew what it was. (No knowledge of UFOs at all

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Youre 4 out of 5, dependant on the IQ issue. Youre best having one given by a psychological professional. The ones online are garbage. I'd be very curious to know if youre above average.

You also strike me as being a creative/art type guy. Thats another aspect, however it's more specialized, and applies to some...not as specific as the others.

So...what the pattern is, we only have theories about.

Nationality: Irish/German : I've found this to make up the vast majority of experiencers. Why. No idea. My research cohort often said they were very old cultures, and had plenty of lore of gnomes, fairies, etc. Celtic ancestory is another very common trait in experiencers.

IQ: Our surmise was that being able to extrapolate extraordinary senarios had some meaning. The ability to conceive far reaching theories might perceive the experience better...it is, after all, all about perception. Who knows.

Hallucinagenic drug use: Nope, you dont have to be using currently or on anything to have the experience. While it's an easy out for skeptical minds "hell man he was stoned!", and yes, it'd be easy to say that. But you nor I are experimenting like we're 16 again. I wasnt any acidhead either. But I tried marijuanna a few times...wasnt for me and that was the end of it. I dont drink.

Ya know what, doesnt matter. We did what we did, just like millions of others.

The connection my research partner drew was interesting. I remember him saying "Hallucinagenics are known throught their history as "opening doors". Doors of perception, doors of reality." I always argued that I didnt try pot til I was 18, and I'd had the experience since 5 or so.

His reply was that "Maybe they dont recognize linear time...you did it, at some point along the timeline...maybe thats all they need".

Yeah, heavy huh.

Occultism: Again, opening a different kind of door. Occult practices in some people's opinions are directly associated with beings that are not human. Perhaps it's possible that spiritual diversity is an advantage to them. Perhaps that spiritual diversity is an open door for them to show influence. Again who knows. But it's a common trait, all too common actually.

I'm willing to bet you also have a respect for God, but youre just not sure about what the church would have you believe about him.

Many go on from the experience, to abandon all faith in God. They are convinced aliens planted us, and there is no God.

And perhaps thats exactly what "aliens" want us to beleive. Perhaps the occult activity you show interest in, is their influence. Maybe to divert your spirituality....Again, who knows.

The sighting at early age: Not a constant, but I'm surprised you didnt see one. You might not even recall it if it happened early enough. Alot of experiencers do have an inordinate amount of sightings of strange things, and strange events.

My opinion on hypnotherapy is already stated. If you were coming to my support group from way back, I'd say to sit down alone, and think.

Think, about odd things that has happened over your lifetime. I mean wierd stuff you might have blown off. Go back to as early as you can recall.

Wierd medical issues.
Odd snippets of time you cant put together.
Irrational fears as a child.
Surrealistic experiences, ghosts, ufos, etc.
Finding yourself somewhere you cant figure out...how you got there, or being lost.

Write them down. Every odd thing you've experienced that made you go..."hmm, thats wierd".

When youre done, connect the dots. See if it follows any continuity...dont MAKE it follow...it should fall into place if youre objective about it.

This is how I arrived at knowing my experiences didnt cease at a certain age, but just became more "masked". Then resurfaced as intense as before later on.

I have only one experience that I can summarize for ya that puzzles the hell out of me. This is one of the few experiences that wasnt in waking hours.

I fell asleep one night in my easy chair, when I was awoke by something scraping my forearm. I opened my eyes and saw my livingroom, tv etc. I also saw something to my left arm. It wasnt human. I could not look it in the face. It had a long silver stick it was scraping my forearm with. My arm felt like it wieghed 400 lbs. I couldnt lift it if I tried...but I kicked like a mule.

I got out "what the # are you doing???" in a muffled voice.

I heard like a radio in my head: "You should know, you volunteered"

"I didnt volunteer for anything" I replied.

Again, in my right ear this time, like a radio: "Yes you did...so did I."

In a 3 second pause, he was gone. 3 scratches on my arm, gone in 24 hours.

Thats all I remember. I got up, heart pounding, got a drink and went to bed. Now you tell me how you sleep after that. I wasnt awake at the start, but I was damn sure awake when I saw it and it spoke to me. My wife later told me she heard me talking, and kicking, and thought my son was out of bed in the hall...but she couldnt make herself get up. She said it felt like we had company over that night, like someone came over after she went to bed...like alot of people were in the house. Only no one was. She just had that "feeling".

Thats about 1 of only 2 non-waking hour experiences. Most were wide awake, unfortunately.

So, try the writing down your odd life experiences. See what you remember. Let me know whatcha end up with. Take it slow.

~J

mod edit: censor circumvention




[edit on 28-3-2006 by sanctum]

BTW, you mentioned being brought to a bright white light. Right?

Did it make you squint...hurt your eyes?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I had just recently dozed off when it happened. Something wakes me...

And the response...

Originally posted by Sophismata
Can anyone point out to me why I should continue considering the rest of the post following the above part?

I'll point you in the right direction. It's a falacy of mind to form a conclusion before you have collected the relevant evidence.

Here's what happened to ME last night, folks:

I'm sorry Sophismata I fail to see what relevance your drunk driving experience has with aliens and or abductions

I finally fell asleep after watching TV for several hours and continually resetting the sleep timer on it.

You were drunk and finally passed out.

I was woken up by it shutting down and I noticed a white light shining on my bedroom wall.

You awake. "ewww prettysh light.." you slur as you drunkenly stumble towards the light

It was coming from the back yard. I went out there

You stumble over the coffee table during your attempt at reaching the backyard and acquire "mysterious scratches" in the process.

(although for some reason I could only move VERY slowly - clearly something was affecting my body!!)

"Gosh!" you say, "Who knew tequila and cabernet didn't mix?!"

and I saw an awesome red Ferrari Testarossa (sp?).

*Beer-goggles* "That is a Ferrari isn't it?" you think to yourself as you squint through the blinding light at your red Toyota Camry

The headlights were shining into my window which was the light I had seen. It all made sense.

And then it happened. A moment of clarity. Of lucidity! "oh that's right...I was drinking earlier"

I got in the Ferrari and peeled out, driving out of my backyard over a ramp which had appeared overnight.

You get in your race car and speed out of your backyard, driving over your wifes parked car, which apparently appeared there overnight, and yell "Weeeeee"


Sophismata. You think I dreamt it all up. Okay. You could have just said that..

If you so desire please review some of the earlier posts as the idea that I dreamt the experience was brought up on many accounts. Please share your thoughts on those posts. If you will. Also note, I am going to address this idea in more detail later.

[edit on 043131p://28u31 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by NotClever
To address the issue of 'sleep paralysis' or dreaming being a primary factor for abduction experiences...It becomes a non-argument when the abduction experiences that occurr to completely awake subjects, in broad daylight, is brought into the picture.

Well it certainly adds weight to my defense. Does any specific daytime cases stand out to you? Know of any good links/resources on daytime cases?

The abduction experience appears to cross all cultural and societal boundaries. This weakens the 'shared cultural reference' argument by pointing out the similarities in the 'core' experience.

Yes I very much agree with that. There has been cases across the globe and yet they share many similarities. There has been abduction cases in areas that are not really exposed to the mainstream media.

And...did you know bugs have an odor? Can you guess how they smell? The clue has already been posted.

Is this the clue you were talking about?...

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by isisinanna
A mixture of funky mold ~ mustiness and something else, that I can't quite describe accurately.

Wet cardboard. Like the boxes at the supermarket, brown corrogated cardboard.

Thats always the way it seemed to me, but a very strong version of it.

I don't recall any smells from my experience. I do find it interesting that a certain kind of smell is shared between multiple cases though. Did I get the clue rght? Is that the odor bugs have?

Lucid, try to provide some photos of your scratches, or get any kind of third party evidence to help support your account.

I plan on photographing the scratches as soon as it happens again (about once a month I get "mysterious scratches", usually on my back, and I never recall how I get them). I will post the pics to this thread.

[edit on 043131p://28u51 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by jbondo
Lucid, If you were really abducted, which is up for debate, I don't believe it was random at all. In fact, they were coming specifically for you

I always figured I was selected. I'm not going to be ego-centric and assume they wanted to take me because I am unique amongst humans. I'm thinking more along the lines of something more broad like age, sex, blood-type and things like that.

and it may be just one of many times that you've been taken.

I think that might be the case because of the mysterious scratches. I am investigating it. Hopefully ill make some progress I can share.

It is my opinion that at least 75% of these night abductions are nothing more than lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis. Then there's that 25% that I believe is real.

I wonder how big a number 25% of all abduction cases really is? I bet it's pretty big. I also don't believe alot of cases.

It's hard to tell with you, although I respect your feelings and I always try to lean to the side of belief since most fakes usually hang themselves given enough rope.

The Greys already have me in a noose

That's good though, as I said earlier, it's important to be critical about anything you have not personally, directly experienced.

You are sure this is the only time you can recall? I would definitely check into hypnotherapy. As I said, if it did happen, you may have a long history of abduction.

It's the only one I can consciously remember yeah. I am hesitant to use a hypnotherapist. Although I definitely would like to recover additional memories (if there is any). I'm going to talk more about my hypnoregression concerns later.

Double post sorry.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by ImaginaryReality1984]