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ATS: Newly Translated Documents Reveal Saddam Had To Have Terrorist Ties

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posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:47 AM
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The Wall Street Journal says




online.wsj.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">source

The Paper Trail [Saddam/terrorism/WMD]

After substantial prodding -- including from this paper -- the U.S. government has finally begun to release its captured Iraqi documents and is posting them at the Web site of the Army's Foreign Military Studies Office. This material will take considerable time to absorb and analyze, but it may yet contribute significantly to our understanding of the nature of the threat Saddam Hussein posed. [...]



I will of course be following up on any and all future documents as they become available, hopefully with links to articles that can be read w/o a subscription requirement.

(Mod edit: source fix)



[edit on 27-3-2006 by Riwka]




posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Code_Burger
Actually, I'm not new to ATSNN, and am well aware of the TAC, or whatever set of rules the "stay on topic" rule falls under. Where a narrow minded person may assume I have deviated "off topic", someone with a wider understanding of events may understand exactly where I'm coming from.

Muadibb, are you a moderator?


No but I am and please stay on topic.

Thanks, u2u me if you have any questions rather than posting them in the thread itself.

Cheers
Fred



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by NoGrinia
Well I never thought I would have heard of that one nor live to see the day where one of the bigger threats in the desert were Camels of Mass Destructions

Neither did those poor souls that were killed by IEDs stuffed into the carcasses of dogs, goats, and even human corpses. Hiding them on/in camels is entirely plausible.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:22 AM
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Oh this is just laughable...it borders on pathetic, both the headline and its assertion and the idea. Think about these things before you post them will ya.

First off using animals as the deliverer of explosives is old as dirt, we've done it...or tried to with dolphins, who refused to co-operate. They didn't trust us. Smart animals. Second they would hardly be weapons of mass destruction...distraction is more likely, like a camel is going to kill thousands, besides that fact they are well known to be ornery and cantankerous on a good day, deciding that they aren't going anywhere if they get it in their mind. And finally, really if you have an army you are going to need, and then there are a bunch of kooks outside of it just dying to die blowing up their precieved enemy, who are you going to use for suicide missions? This reads more like an idea that was kicked around, than one that was actually going to be implimented...its a stupid idea but hey our military has considered some hair brained schemes before as well.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 07:08 AM
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the only terrorist(s) ive ever seen doing business with Saddam is Donald Rumsfield and US government that sold him biochemical weapons.

You`ve seen the tape...

There were most probably others as well, but hey, lets start at the beginning shall we



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 07:37 AM
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Mod edit: removed offtopic content

All: Please stay on topic!



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by grover
[What??? Which London bombing? The most recent? His sons were dead by then ya know. Or so we have been told by OUR government.



Grover you have to realize everything I have used to this point was obtained from inside Iraq and predates the London attack when he was still alive. I assume you missed this portion of the original post so here it is again with the underlined text pointing out the known information regarding London and his Sons order.



Weekly Standard

One of the Saddam documents details orders for an extensive terrorist operation.

SADDAM'S ULTRA-LOYAL Fedayeen martyrs were ordered to carry out bombings and assassinations in London, Iran, and "self ruled areas" of Iraq in May 1999, according to a newly released Iraqi intelligence document. One such operation, codenamed "Tamooz Mubarak" or "Blessed July," was apparently intended to hunt down Iraqi dissidents and bomb other unspecified locations.

Although a copy of the original document was not released, an English translation was published on the Foreign Military Studies Office's Joint Reserve Intelligence Center website yesterday. The site cautions, "the US Government has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available." But, the document appears to be the same as one discussed by a team of military and defense analysts in Foreign Affairs mag azine earlier this month.

The Fedayeen Saddam was established in the mid-1990s and its ranks were filled with recruits fanatically loyal to Saddam and his sons. Uday, Saddam's eldest son, was the group's commander throughout much of its existence. And according to the Foreign Affairs piece, it was Uday who issued the order for the "Blessed July" operations.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Now as you can clearly see this is alleged to have taken place prior to his death and according to the Foreign Affairs article it was Uday who issued the order for the "Blessed July" Operations.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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Here is yet another document with link to translation that asserts the WMD's were shipped to Syria and mentions Germany and France





Saddam Regime Document Dated January 2003: The French and German Connections (Translation)

Posted on 03/27/2006 7:26:09 AM PST by jveritas

In this document ISGZ-2004-02817 there is a report by the Assistant of the Iraqi Intelligence Director to his boss “The Director” dated January/23/2003 regarding the visit of one German and one Frenchman to Iraq and these two guys talk about their strong relation with the top government officials in both France and Germany. In this letter the German that German Chancellor Schroeder was totally opposed to the idea of the war in Iraq and it his opposition to the possible war that made him win the German elections held in 2002. Also there is an important part of the letter where it mention the visit of German Chancellor to meet with the Chinese Prime minister and that the Chinese PM told Schroeder “about the information that was obtained by the Chinese intelligence and it says that Iraq has moved his mass of destruction weapon to Syria and the German Chancellor told him that the German intelligence did not indicate this. And after two days the US state secretary went to Damascus to check on this with the Syrian government that in turn denied this news.” Also in the letter it show the fear of the French to join the war because of the heavy losses that will suffer..


See the first link above to read the translation.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 11:16 AM
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Shots, the document they have translated on that page appears to be missing, or the link they have posted to it is broken. I question the authenticity of these documents, and the contents of them. We have no idea who the guys are who are translating the documents, or if they're Scholars or not. People could just blatantly post false translations, and the Government could have just blatantly falsified the documents themselves before passing them on to this FreeRepublic message board. Of course though, these translations may be accurate, and from genuine Iraqi pre-war documents, but this whole thing just stinks. Surely nobody can blame me for being sceptical here, right? I mean it's a conservative message forum, for Christ sake, where they all sit around making fun of Cindy Sheehan (Shots posted a link to that thread somewhere).



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Code_Burger
Shots, the document they have translated on that page appears to be missing, or the link they have posted to it is broken.


No the links are there the site just appears to be down for the time being and you can locate some of the translated documents here.

fmso.leavenworth.army.mil...

As for those translating and what background they have I posted that I was trying to contact them and get the information so you will have to be patient.

Now if you would be so kind please do not respond to any more posts in this thread. I would like it to be just a place to locate information on the individual documents all in one place. I will then start a Lets discuss thread in the war on terrorism forum with the individual titles of each document.

I.e. the thread title in that forum might read

Lets discuss the Iraq German and France connection with a link back to this thread and the individual post that contains the information.

I will be asking a mod to edit the original comments section of my first post sometime today to indicate this thread is not for discussion but just to locate translations and links as they become available. We can then discuss them in the other forum while using the title of each document in a thread of its own. That way the topics can maintain a constant flow on just one discussion in its own thread.

Thank you



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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shots
Now if you would be so kind please do not respond to any more posts in this thread. I would like it to be just a place to locate information on the individual documents all in one place. I will then start a Lets discuss thread in the war on terrorism forum with the individual titles of each document.


Pffft. This is an open forum and I will respond if I so choose. If you would just screw your head on straight for a minute you will see I was trying to locate information on the individual documents, right here, all in this thread. The link to the document concerning Syria and the German connection is not working, which I thought needed to be brought to attention. We still have no information on the translators, which I brought to attention. I also brought to attention the possibilty the translations are false, seeing as they're published on a message board, this is not at all unreasonable. All I'm trying to do is gain information on these documents, which just so happen to be exactly what this thread is about. How dare you tell me not to post!



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:35 PM
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Anybody may post in this thread as long as they are within guidelines and on topic

However, I urge all to remain ontopic and within guidelines.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Riwka
Anybody may post in this thread as long as they are within guidelines and on topic

However, I urge all to remain ontopic and within guidelines.



I realize that and that was a request on my part not a command as I have explained I had hopes of placing the information all in one thread and we could then discuss each on their own merits in the War on Terrorism thread
It is there I planned on discussing the individual authors of the translations and their merits.

I had hoped that way the flow of discussion on each would be much better
then discussing several documents which can only lead to mass confusion.

But I guess that appears to be an impossibility the way it is



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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OK, let me get this straight?

is this is the supposed proof, that Saddam was looking to tie with terrorists...?

Doesn't convince me yet, I could go into specifics, but lets look at it this way...

what it looks like is a desperate leader, trying to think of ways to get ANYONE on his very unstable side...

Terrorists wouldn't have worked with him, even if he would have worked with them...
try "private mercs" and you get closer to the truth... and before you call private mercs "terrorists"
be careful... we use them all the time...


As to whether i beleive anything coming out of our governments lying mouth... well... they have lied all along about our evidence/reasons/connection, So why should i trust info being "discovered" now?

Discovered... created... same thing to a desperate administration with less than 40% approval rating...



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Ok I have started the first discussion thread titledLets discuss Iraqs German, French, Syria connection

We can discuss that particular topic there if no one minds.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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It should be remembered that the US navy has trained porpoises to act as WMD. What's the difference with using camels?



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
OK, let me get this straight?

is this is the supposed proof, that Saddam was looking to tie with terrorists...?

Doesn't convince me yet, I could go into specifics, but lets look at it this way...

what it looks like is a desperate leader, trying to think of ways to get ANYONE on his very unstable side...

Terrorists wouldn't have worked with him, even if he would have worked with them...
try "private mercs" and you get closer to the truth... and before you call private mercs "terrorists"
be careful... we use them all the time...


As to whether i beleive anything coming out of our governments lying mouth... well... they have lied all along about our evidence/reasons/connection, So why should i trust info being "discovered" now?



LazarusTheLong please be patient we at ATS should be able to find out the real answers as we have done in the past with other topics.

I am working on alternate sources/translations and will post alternate translations as they become available for all to read.

I only decided to use the current source because it was claimed that ABC may use the very same translations and those I have posted to this point. Now we have to take a wait and see to see if the claim was correct and ABC will air each as was claimed n two to three days after each is released or might be on a special they plan on running not sure on that. I will have to see if I can find out.

I registered under the very same name in the source forum that I am using now and plan on posting any new info I find there also with links back to ATS of course


I just wish I knew now what I did not know three days ago if I had known what I do I would have gone about obtaining the translations in another way but it is too late now. So it is sink or swim for me


Please be patient I will do my best to obtain as many alternate translations on each document as they become available if they become available by others that is. No one knows for certain if others will even take the effort once one person has done it, all we can do is hope they will.

Again please be patient with me, I will try and do my very best to get as much information as I can for discussion on ATS by our members.

Edit to add the information I stated about ABC carrying the translations is now confirmed here is the Source




[edit on 3/27/2006 by shots]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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Here is another link with some more information.


CAIRO, Egypt - A former Democratic senator and 9/11 commissioner says a recently declassified Iraqi account of a 1995 meeting between Osama bin Laden and a senior Iraqi envoy presents a "significant set of facts," and shows a more detailed collaboration between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

In an interview yesterday, the current president of the New School University, Bob Kerrey, was careful to say that new documents translated last night by ABC News did not prove Saddam Hussein played a role in any way in plotting the attacks of September 11, 2001.

Nonetheless, the former senator from Nebraska said that the new document shows that "Saddam was a significant enemy of the United States." Mr. Kerrey said he believed America's understanding of the deposed tyrant's relationship with Al Qaeda would become much deeper as more captured Iraqi documents and audiotapes are disclosed.


The question of future cooperation is left an open question. According to the ABC News translation, the captured document says, "development of the relationship and cooperation between the two parties to be left according to what's open [in the future] based on dialogue and agreement on other ways of cooperation." ABC notes in their report that terrorists, believed to be Al Qaeda, attacked the Saudi National Guard headquarters on November 13, 1995.

www.nysun.com...



[edit on 27-3-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Code_Burger
The link to the document concerning Syria and the German connection is not working, which I thought needed to be brought to attention. We still have no information on the translators, which I brought to attention. I also brought to attention the possibility the translations are false, seeing as they're published on a message board, this is not at all unreasonable. All I'm trying to do is gain information on these documents, which just so happen to be exactly what this thread is about.


1. With all due respect I answered the reason why the links are not working in another post. The main source site has been having problems all day long, no one has been able to access many of their links all day long. I gave you the link above. Please by all means check it out if you still question the links, as they may or may not be working now.

2. If you are having a problem with my sources, by all means please feel free to find alternate translations of the documents and then post them showing the differences so all can discuss them.

3. As for the author I explained, I was going to try and obtain permission to post his info and I do know it and asked for his permission to post it. He did respond, however he thought this was my site so I had to resend and make it clear this is not my site, it is just a site that I post on. I am still awaiting his approval to post the info and once he says it is OK I will be more then happy to do so. I also explained I was not all that happy with just one source, unfortunately I have been unable to find alternate translations, in the mean time why don't you find alternate translations, and post them from sources you consider to be more reliable.





[edit on 3/27/2006 by shots]



posted on Mar, 30 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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OK I seem to have resolved any problems with linking to Freep that Thomas Crowne and I discussed in Private.

Now a BlogSite will be carrying his translations as I understand it, so that clears up the direct linking problems to another discussion board that were encountered.


Here is the authors bio as they describe it followed by his permission to me to post his name and use it in this forum.



Interview With Joseph Shahda


Shahda is originally from Lebanon, having come to the United States in 1994 during his early twenties. He has lived in the United States for the last twelve years. Shahda is a Christian and speaks Arabic and English fluently.



Please be sure and read what the blog has to say there is more then just his bio, it also explains his concerns over the errors he made and how fast he corrected them when there were any. It also explains very clearly that he will not editorialize in his translations along with a one on one phone interview of sorts between the blogs author and Mr Shahda.

Email exchange direct with Joseph that verifies the very same thing



From jveritas | 03/27/2006 10:49:33 AM PST replied

Hi Shots

I am originally from Lebanon, born and lived there for 22 years so Arabic is my native language. It is very easy for me to translate from Arabic to English.

I have been living in the US for over 12 years. I am currently working as an engineer and I am doing the translations (in my spare time ļ) out of a sense of duty and deep gratitude for our country in time of war. This is the least that I can for this county to whom I am in an eternal debt that I can never pay no matter what I do.



Followed with permission to use his Name here on ATS or anyother site I migt use.



Re: The link in this thread appears to be broken that leads to the document
From jveritas | 03/27/2006 2:59:07 PM PST read

Absolutely! you can use my information on any website you want. The Pentagon/FMSO web site is down today.


Kindly note the blog site appears to be liberal rather then conservative which concerned at least one individual.

Now just what does that mean? It means that both liberals and conservatives as well as ABC news all consider him to be authentic so it is win win for all sides


Hopefully now that I have an alternate link to use this whole issue as to what these documents reveal can now continue.



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