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House majority leader: "Legislation that is in any way anti-Israel will not be considered"

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posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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Boehner says he won’t let anti-Israel laws through

The new Republican majority leader in the U.S. House of Representatives said he would never allow anti-Israel legislation come to the floor.

“As the new House majority leader, I can assure you that under my leadership, legislation that is in any way perceived as anti-Israel will not be considered in the House of Representatives,” Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) told the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference, to thunderous applause.

More at source.


The Israel Lobby Report was right, and it is being reaffirmed in the halls of power that Israel comes first in US policy. The Shameful submission of such a powerful nation the world has never seen.




posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 07:40 PM
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This is what I'm talking about.

I hate Israel. It's a dirty stinking country that pretends like it's the victim. The worse part is that it has us (the US) in its crooked, dirty, criminal, greedy pocket.



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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His job should be to insure only American intrests and , not any other country, that comment if it was truly made suggests that the house is nothing more than a tool of Israely goverenment , which in and of it's self is treason.



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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Okay, but why?

Why, IMO, does the U.S. react so positively to Israel?

What sway do they hold over us or what "stuff" do we get from them that makes us set foreign policy up around them?

The politicians live and die by Public Relations (PR), so why wouldn't a statement like this have cut his political throat?

Also, IMO, politicians think in the short-term so I don't think that they are waiting for Israel to jump up and take over the MiddleEast and hand us oilfields and such, so what do we get from them?

Also, during the first Gulf War, Saddam lobbed some missiles over into Israel, but Israel never took any action toward Saddam. Why did Israel stay out of the war when, to me, it was like kicking a hornets nest?

JDub



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by BlueTileSpook
Okay, but why?

Why, IMO, does the U.S. react so positively to Israel?

What sway do they hold over us or what "stuff" do we get from them that makes us set foreign policy up around them?


Money. I have no facts at all to back me up, but I would bet that the majority of lobbyists (and their patron- corporations) have pro- Israel sympathies, whether through the obvious familial ties, or as a result of intensive brainwashing (in our media, in our public education system, etc). [Flame me if you want, and I'll understand why you did it, because that was a generalization, but I'm sure I can find some evidence to back up my claim.]

Also, and probably not as important to the actual players in this little tragedy, religion. While there have always been evangelical, and apocalyptic, sects of Christianity in the US, this presidency is the first one that appears to have taken them, and their concerns about 'moral decay', seriously. Since this is his base, the same people who believe the Apocalyse is, like, next year, they tend not to put up much of a fight when our government fights Israel's battles. They are, after all, the "Chosen People." Remember, 'pious Christians' perfected their rudimentary but effective techniques of genocide on the Cathars, and then, fought the Crusades in order to reclaim the Holy Land.







This is just an opinion. I was answering a question. The sarcasm you may have noted in my post is not the result of hatred toward either religion. I don't hate Jews, I don't hate Christians. I hate Goliaths of any race, religion, creed, nationality, or sexual orientation.



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 11:26 PM
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Could it simply be that at this point in time allowing any sort of anti-Israel policies to go through would be opening the flood gates to a major conflict in the Middle East?



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Could it simply be that at this point in time allowing any sort of anti-Israel policies to go through would be opening the flood gates to a major conflict in the Middle East?


They started wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with no thought as to how their actions would destabilize the Middle East.



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 11:42 PM
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Haven't all those countries just been waiting for the US to ease up on Israel policy since the nation was created? The region was highly unstable to begin with.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Haven't all those countries just been waiting for the US to ease up on Israel policy since the nation was created? The region was highly unstable to begin with.


You just gave all the reasons why the creation of Israel, as we know it, probably wasnt the best idea the Allied Forces ever had.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:34 AM
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Why would the U.S consider anti-*any country that's not our enemy* policies in the first place? I think all he was saying is that we won't shun Israel.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
You just gave all the reasons why the creation of Israel, as we know it, probably wasnt the best idea the Allied Forces ever had.


Israel tried for its freedom in 1948 and was prompty invaded by Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi, Jordanian, and Lebanese forces. It wasn't until 1949 when the UN put an end to the war by backing its status as a free nation.

So blame the UN, not the "Allied Forces."


EDIT TO ADD: Also, Israel is a democratic, free nation. This is the policy the US dreams to spread around the world. So why wouldn't out government be inclined to support them? We do it for all sorts of nations around the globe. Israel only gets singled out because of the stereotype (see your own post) that all Israeli people are rich and have thier hands in the US government.

[edit on 3/27/2006 by cmdrkeenkid]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid

Israel tried for its freedom in 1948 and was prompty invaded by Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi, Jordanian, and Lebanese forces. It wasn't until 1949 when the UN put an end to the war by backing its status as a free nation.

So blame the UN, not the "Allied Forces."



Thank you for that clarification. I don't mind being wrong- it means I learned something new that day.



...Israel is a democratic, free nation. This is the policy the US dreams to spread around the world. So why wouldn't out government be inclined to support them? We do it for all sorts of nations around the globe.


Are you serious? The US isn't even entirely "democratic, [and] free."

Vote Suppression in 2004 Presidential Election
Voting Irregularites and Controversy in 2004 Presidential Election

How dare our leaders encourage us to impose "our" will on other SOVEREIGN NATIONS, taking care of other people's problems (or creating them, as we see fit), as our own country is left to rot from the inside out?

I think the US should focus on its own domestic problems, ranging from the cataclysmic economic forecasts, to our total lack of preparedness for any type of disaster at all, much less 'terrorism,' to the fact that our southern borders seem to be completely open to whosoever decides to mosey on across. Like I said, I think we have our hands full.



Israel only gets singled out because of the stereotype (see your own post) that all Israeli people are rich and have thier hands in the US government.


First of all, re-read the post that you so kindly hyperlinked. In fact, I'll quote the relevant part



I would bet that the majority of lobbyists (and their patron- corporations) have pro- Israel sympathies, whether through the obvious familial ties, or as a result of intensive brainwashing (in our media, in our public education system, etc).


[*Editted to add this link Harvard Study Finds Pro-Israel Lobby Influences U.S. Foreign Policy. I didn;t have time to read it, but I thought it was timely, and I didn't want to lose my editting window of opportunity.]

I absolutely did not say that all Israelis are rich, or have their hands in the US government.

You said that.

Further, let me just say that this is the first time I've voiced my opinion on the super-sensitive topic of Israel, and I find it shocking that my original comment, which I made sure to state in a humble, non-incendiary way, full of self- deprecation, was so twisted as to become what was quoted back to me. Wow. How will we ever get our nation out of this "entangling alliance" if we can't even have a conversation about it?


HH

[edit on 27-3-2006 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted byHerman
Why would the U.S consider anti-*any country that's not our enemy* policies in the first place?


A lot of Americans feel like Israel may, in fact, be an enemy.

Going all the way back to WWII, with the USS Liberty, Jonathan Pollard during the Cold War, and "the dancing Israelis" on 9/11.

That last one sounds apocryphal, but there was a bomb threat on NYC bridges on 9/11, a few hours after the edge of initial shock had begun to wear off. I remember, because my boyfriend was in another borough, and I was concerned as to how he would get home.

Anyway, back to the point, I just don't see any distinct advantages gained from our alliance with Israel. If anything, it's gotten us into more trouble. What do you think?



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Are you serious? The US isn't even entirely "democratic, [and] free."


Then I invite you to go spend some serious time in foreign nations so you can learn first hand just how free the US is compared to any other country in the world.


How dare our leaders encourage us to impose "our" will on other SOVEREIGN NATIONS, taking care of other people's problems (or creating them, as we see fit), as our own country is left to rot from the inside out?


While I do agree that we have our own problems to fix, we also have the power to fix other countries problems. Would you sit back and allow a despot leader to start a massive genocide? I mean, after all, WWII was just the US and GB imposing thier will on Germany. Imagine if they hadn't?



I think the US should focus on its own domestic problems, ranging from the cataclysmic economic forecasts, to our total lack of preparedness for any type of disaster at all, much less 'terrorism,' to the fact that our southern borders seem to be completely open to whosoever decides to mosey on across. Like I said, I think we have our hands full.


A lot of economy has to do with oil, and a lot of countries are switching over to the petro-Euro (or at least planning on it). Also, as the terrorist organization OPEC raises oil prices more and more it will have effects on our economy. Oil truely is the lifeblood of our economy. So as of right now, it all depends on that.

Once we are independant of foreign oil, by drilling in Alaska, the Great Lakes, or other "protected" areas, or by a new source of energy, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place.



First of all, re-read the post that you so kindly hyperlinked. In fact, I'll quote the relevant part



I would bet that the majority of lobbyists (and their patron- corporations) have pro- Israel sympathies, whether through the obvious familial ties, or as a result of intensive brainwashing (in our media, in our public education system, etc).


That's the exact part I was referring to as the stereotype too. You said yourself, that that was a "generalization." Well what is a stereotype?




I absolutely did not say that all Israelis are rich, or have their hands in the US government.

You said that.


I was just restating the stereotype that you have. I'll comment on parts of your post and point out the stereotypes in each section.




Money.


Your stereotype that all Israelis are rich.



I have no facts at all to back me up, but I would bet that the majority of lobbyists (and their patron- corporations) have pro- Israel sympathies,


Your stereotype that Israel has its hands in US government.



... or as a result of intensive brainwashing (in our media, in our public education system, etc).


Your stereotype that Jewish people control the American media.


[Flame me if you want, and I'll understand why you did it, because that was a generalization, but I'm sure I can find some evidence to back up my claim.]


Funny, when I called you out on having a stereotype before, that didn't seem to be the case. Also, where are your links for evidence?


I read your link (despite that you hadn't) to how "Pro-Israel Lobby Influences US Foreign Policy," but I honestly didn't need that discussion or a Harvard study to tell me that. Of course it does. Just like Pro-Tobacco Lobby Influences Policy at home. So what's your point in that?



Further, let me just say that this is the first time I've voiced my opinion on the super-sensitive topic of Israel, and I find it shocking that my original comment, which I made sure to state in a humble, non-incendiary way, full of self- deprecation, was so twisted as to become what was quoted back to me. Wow. How will we ever get our nation out of this "entangling alliance" if we can't even have a conversation about it?


Again, you even said it was a stereotype and that you wouldn't be surprised if someone was offended by it. So why the underhanded ploy to gain sympathy?



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid

Then I invite you to go spend some serious time in foreign nations so you can learn first hand just how free the US is compared to any other country in the world.


As an American citizen, without dual citizenship anywhere else, my primary concern is MY country. I don't really care about "how free the US is compared to other countries." That's not, directly, my problem.

If the woman next door is getting beat up by her boyfriend, all I can do is advise her, and help her get help. I will not walk in and get beat up too. Again, it's not, directly, my problem.


While I do agree that we have our own problems to fix, we also have the power to fix other countries problems.


No, sadly, we don't. This presidency has no ability to multitask. Have you been watching the increasing drama surrounding the illegal immigrants issue? What about the outsourcing of American jobs? Or the fact that the vast majority of Americans have no healthcare?

Add to this list of growing problems the fact that the president and his team are worn out.



Would you sit back and allow a despot leader to start a massive genocide?


....Oh! You must be talking about Bush. No, I, personally, would not, but it seems that I, personally, have no choice in the matter.

I certainly wish that the global community had been as interested in human rights when Europeans unleashed the genocidal machine of colonialism.


A lot of economy has to do with oil, and a lot of countries are switching over to the petro-Euro (or at least planning on it). Also, as the terrorist organization OPEC raises oil prices more and more it will have effects on our economy. Oil truely is the lifeblood of our economy. So as of right now, it all depends on that.


I notice that you didnt respond to any of my other domestic policy concerns, aside from oil, which, as you explained, is not, in fact, a domestic policy issue, unless they start rationing.

But, to respond to what you did say, it looks like we painted ourselves into a corner, doesn't it? So, now what are gonna do? Kill anybody who gets in our way?

As to this "stereoptyping" that you refer to so often, I will not fall back into line because you used that word. Yes, I'm black, and, yes, we often complain of being sterotyped, but I have noticed that those sterotypes are accepted and actually discussed at great length on ATS. So, I will not back down from my original reply, or what you have claimed are my 'sterotypes.' If anything, I expect the same, open, civil discussion. Thank you.



Also, where are your links for evidence?



You're the moderator and expert on this subject. Do an ATS search. You'll find links posted by people who state this case much better than I do.



I read your link (despite that you hadn't) to how "Pro-Israel Lobby Influences US Foreign Policy," but I honestly didn't need that discussion or a Harvard study to tell me that. Of course it does. Just like Pro-Tobacco Lobby Influences Policy at home. So what's your point in that?


The Pro-Tobacco Lobby influences policy at home, like whether or not cigarettes, deadly as they are, should be legal for adults to purchase. The Pro-Israel Lobby puts ALL of our lives at risk, regardless of our personal choices. That's the point.



So why the underhanded ploy to gain sympathy?


"An underhanded ploy to gain sympathy," huh? I think you give me more credit than I actually deserve. I spoke from the heart and meant every word that I said in that last paragraph.

If you can't see how you further obsfucated the issue with a personal attack and an overall snippy tone, maybe you shouldn't involve yourself in such heated issues. This is a discussion forum, isn't it?



HH

*editted for spelling*

[edit on 27-3-2006 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Haven't all those countries just been waiting for the US to ease up on Israel policy since the nation was created? The region was highly unstable to begin with.


So;
Allowing Israel to Spy on the United State's,
Have Agents working in the U.S.
Attacking U.S. Naval Ships,
etc,

Should be allowed so that they in turn are not attacked? That logic is laughable to me. Evidently, if the Israeli Government kill, spy or do harm to the United State's that is allowed. So that Israel doesn't get harmed. Yet, these people are politicions for the United State's and not Israel? Surely the U.S. should come first? And anyone claiming that cutting the funding to Israel, stopping the sale of weapons, or the constent protection in the U.N. will result in more attacks on the United State's, either has to accept the Issue is the United State's and not Israel or an external group were acting to regain the support of Israel, as no other arguement can logically be put forward.

It's a shame, however the United State's by its own Government is controlled by Bankers, Media and the Military Industrial Complex among other small groups. This is instead of the people...



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
As an American citizen, without dual citizenship anywhere else, my primary concern is MY country. I don't really care about "how free the US is compared to other countries." That's not, directly, my problem.


Then why are you complaining that we're not a free country? How can you say we're not a free country when you haven't experienced the oppression that goes on throughout the world first hand? And no, don't twist that into an American oppresion statement. I mean the oppression of people like Saddam Hussein or the leaders of Iran and several other primarily Islamic nations or the oppression that goes on in Africa. THAT is not being free, at all, in any way. But apparantly all that is okay with you, since it's not your problem.


No, sadly, we don't. This presidency has no ability to multitask. Have you been watching the increasing drama surrounding the illegal immigrants issue? What about the outsourcing of American jobs? Or the fact that the vast majority of Americans have no healthcare?


What presidency does? During every presidency there are going to be shortcomings, goals that were not met, mistakes that were made. Go back and show me a presidency when there were no errors, or mistakes, and everything was perfect?


....Oh! You must be talking about Bush. No, I, personally, would not, but it seems that I, personally, have no choice in the matter.


If you seriously think that Bush has committed any genocide, I think you need to go and relearn some things about the past. Here are some names you can look up that should corespond with genocide: Hitler and Hussein. Also, look up what's happening right now, at this moment in Rawanda. That is genocide.


I certainly wish that the global community had been as interested in human rights when Europeans unleashed the genocidal machine of colonialism.


I bet! Then you wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't be here today. We'd probably be hundreds of years behind technologically too. Too bad we can't go back and change the events of time.



I notice that you didnt respond to any of my other domestic policy concerns, aside from oil, which, as you explained, is not, in fact, a domestic policy issue, unless they start rationing.

But, to respond to what you did say, it looks like we painted ourselves into a corner, doesn't it? So, now what are gonna do? Kill anybody who gets in our way?


I gave options to alleviate our dependancy on foreign oil. So I don't know how you got the idea of "killing anybody who gets in our way" out of my post.

And since I forgot to touch on you other domestic polocy concerns, here are my thoughts.



I think the US should focus on its own domestic problems, ranging from the cataclysmic economic forecasts, to our total lack of preparedness for any type of disaster at all, much less 'terrorism,' to the fact that our southern borders seem to be completely open to whosoever decides to mosey on across.


About the "cataclysmic economic forecasts?" Well, those are like the weather forecasts: Always changing and rarely accurrate.

The nations preparedness for a major disaster? I'm assuming you're talking about Hurrican Katrina. Well, a disaster like that is supposed to be dealt with on the State and City levels first. The State and City both did next to nothing, and just expected the Government to step in and help. I think those levels are more to blame for the disaster still being a problem than the Federal level.

As for terrorism, several attack attempts have been thwarted by the government since 9/11. Like it goes in the CIA, you never hear about the successes, only the failures. When was the last failure you heard of?

If you think the southern borders are unprotected you've never heard of our Great White Neighbor to the North: Canada. Even longer border, even less protected. Both borders have been problems on and off over the years, so this really isn't a new issue.


As to this "streoptyping" that you refer to so often, I will not fall back into line because you used that word. Yes, I'm black, and, yes, we often complain of being sterotyped, but I have noticed that those sterotypes are accepted and actually discussed at great length on ATS. So, I will not back down from my original reply, or what you have claimed are my 'sterotypes.' If anything, I expect the same, open, civil discussion. Thank you.


I never made any assumptions about your race, despite "Harlem" being in your name and the burrough of NYC being primarily black. I assume that people of all races can live there, and I'm probably right about that too.

If you cannot accept that what you have said are stereotypes, then that is not my problem. I was only doing what I could to promote equality.




You're the moderator and expert on this subject. Do an ATS search. You'll find links posted by people who state this case much better than I do.


So originally you said, "I'm sure I can find some evidence to back up my claim," but now that someone is asking for it you can't? Sounds like someone either doesn't care enough or know enough to do the work on thier own.


Also, while I am a moderator on this forum, I am no "expert on this subject."



The Pro-Tobacco Lobby influences policy at home, like whether or not cigarettes, deadly as they are, should be legal for adults to purchase. The Pro-Israel Lobby puts ALL of our lives at risk, regardless of our personal choices. That's the point.


I don't choose to smoke. Someone next to me in public does. Over the years I get exposed to more and more second hand smoke, develope lung cancer, and die. All because of those Pro-Tobacco Lobbyists.

And are any Pro-Israel or any Pro-War on Terror lobbyists calling for a draft? No! So technically, only the lives of those who are willing to volunteer for armed service are putting thier lives at risk.



If you can't see how you further obsfucated the issue with a personal attack and an overall snippy tone, maybe you shouldn't involve yourself in such heated issues. This is a discussion forum, isn't it?


I made no personal attacks, only observations of your character. That being said, this is PTS. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
And are any Pro-Israel or any Pro-War on Terror lobbyists calling for a draft? No! So technically, only the lives of those who are willing to volunteer for armed service are putting thier lives at risk.


Why do they sign up?
Is it to Protect Big Business?
To Protect Israel?
Or to protect the United State's, in fact many people sign up to protect from an attack on America. Which is why we have the problems with Iraq and soldiers now...



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
So;
Allowing Israel to Spy on the United State's,
Have Agents working in the U.S.
Attacking U.S. Naval Ships,
etc,

Should be allowed so that they in turn are not attacked?


And do you think the US has no spies in Israel? No agents working there?

I'm assuming that you're referring to the USS Liberty. Do you know the whole story behind that? Doubtfully. I know I don't. I would be surprised if anyone did, honestly.


Originally posted by Odium
Why do they sign up?o
Is it to Protect Big Business?
To Protect Israel?
Or to protect the United State's, in fact many people sign up to protect from an attack on America. Which is why we have the problems with Iraq and soldiers now...


I think most do it because they're patriotic, they have a family legacy, they have no other options in life, or they need the money to pay for a college education. Sure, some people do it to protect the US, but that falls under the patriotic reason.

At least, those are the reasons people I have known to sign up have used. I've never heard anyone doing it to protect big business or Israel though.

[edit on 3/27/2006 by cmdrkeenkid]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
And do you think the US has no spies in Israel? No agents working there?

I'm assuming that you're referring to the USS Liberty. Do you know the whole story behind that? Doubtfully. I know I don't. I would be surprised if anyone did, honestly.


Let's be fair, flying a U.S. flag and they acknowledge they shot them. Common sense factor here...

Also, just because you're spying on them doesn't mean it's fine for them to do the same? What if times change? In fact, paying a U.S. Military Official to spy on them, who is currently in prison, and facing no punishment shows bias to me. If this was an Iranian spy things would be a lot different.




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