do any ats members actually not believe in aliens?

ive been thinking, seeing how ats revolves around ufos and aliens, who here honestly does not believe in aliens? why do you think they dont exist?

i hope non believers understand that it is impossible for humans to be the only form of life in our galaxy, nevermind the universe considering the trillions of suns in the universe capable of supporting life on other planets...
your thoughts?

[edit on 25-3-2006 by worksoftplayhard]

ATS revolves around much more than aliens and ufos. Much more. As for believing in them or not, not until I see proof. I want to believe, and hope there is something out there, but without hard evidence, I can't just say, Yes, they exist.

Well I think life is probably universal. However, intelligent life may not be universal. There is a 50% chance that intelligent life does not exist anywhere except here on Earth (ie it does or does not). But then again if intelligent can occur here it can probably be present elsewhere. So intelligent life may also be universal. The possibility of different forms of intelligent life being alive at the same time and meeting and knowing that they are meeting is a different question.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by foofoo]

Originally posted by worksoftplayhard
i hope non believers understand that it is impossible for humans to be the only form of life in our galaxy., nevermind the universe considering the trillions of suns in the universe capable of supporting life on other planets...
your thoughts?

You meant intelligent life right? Cuz there is lots of life on Earth alone =)

It's not impossible. We could be the only ones. It's highly unlikely I would say, considering the astronomical (pun intended) amount of chances for earth like planets.

Then again, I have had personal experience with the Greys so I would say we are not the only ones

However, I dont believe the specific details that some members post here. Such as the names of the alien races and what planets they come from, etc.

[edit on 063131p://25u04 by Lucid Lunacy]

I believe in aliens like i believe in father xmass, more than i believe in the official story of 911.







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[edit on 3/25/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

you do get the odd bozo who comes on here and attempts to disprove hard factual evidence and millions of sightings on most probably the forum with the highest concentrations of hardcore ufologists(excuse spelling)and PHD graduates.

Its a real mystery why they try.But in anycase many of them gets shot down anyway.And i must say i do enjoy debating with many non-believers.Thats what makes ATS such a good site.

If you do not believe in extra-terrestrials,thats you choice.I wont hold that against you.But dont discrimminate me in what I or many others believe in here,because your stepping on hot ground.

I dont like people who force their beliefs upon others.Its cause for conflict highly unwanted here on ATS.

There's intelligent life on Earth? Where is it?






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[edit on 3/25/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by blackSt33L
you do get the odd bozo who comes on here and attempts to disprove hard factual evidence and millions of sightings...

You seem to confuse evidence with conclusion.

Its a real mystery why they try....i must say i do enjoy debating with many non-believers.

It's no mystery why this odd bozo would try: I have theories to test, and hard evidence to back them up, not fuzzy pictures to gawk over, and I believe any good theory has to stand up before the toughest critics. The UFOlogists and PhDs have had over six decades and have failed to make any progress; let's just say I'm a bit skeptical at this point.

So where ya' been?! I've been begging for good, logical, reasoned arguments. Come on by and tell me where I'm wrong. (Please bring hard evidence )

PS: there are almost undoubtedly aliens, somewhere, but if they made it this far out into the Galaxy, I would sure hope they've got better things to do than f* around. I also believe that if ETs are buzzing around our planet, they're absolutely the worst drivers in said Galaxy.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by rand]

I think the possibility of life on other planets is very concievable. Its just that theres not really any concrete proof that ther is, yes i know the galaxy is very big and there could be other earth like planets with different races and such, but will we ever find out in our lifetime? probably not, i think for many years to come its just going to be sightings caught on tape, paranoid delusion of abductees, and crop circles, until then guys good night ad good luck....

I think the view that this little speck of nothing we call earth is home to the only intelligent life in the whole universe is perhaps the most egocentric concept mankind has ever come up with.

posted by blackSt33L: “ . . you do get the odd bozo who comes on here and attempts to disprove hard factual evidence on the forum with the highest concentrations of hardcore ufologists and PhD graduates . . It’s a real mystery why they try. But many of them get shot down anyway. And I must say I do enjoy debating with many non-believers. That’s what makes ATS such a good site . . If you do not believe in extra-terrestrials, that’s you choice. I wont hold that against you . . don’t discriminate [against] me in what I or many others believe, because you’re stepping on hot ground. [Edited by Don W]

Geez, BS33L, you say you enjoy debating but then you say not to discriminate against you or other UFO believers. Can you have this both ways? It seems one excludes the other? In any case, let me recite my TWO experiences with UFOs. First, mid-1960s. Nighttime. My girlfriend and I were alone in my car parked on lover’s lane on top of Iroquois Hill, the highest point in Louisville, Ky.

Not being fully occupied, I noticed a light speeding across the sky. In a few seconds, it repeated. I asked my companion to verify the light. She witnessed the third appearance of the light. Having as much love of science as of the art of procreation, I exited the car to stand on the paved edge of the hill road to see what was happening. The light appeared again. This time, I was able to connect it to a rotating beam at a local airport. There were scattered clouds and the beam would become visible when reflecting off those low flying clouds. No UFO. Just a rare event when the sky looked clear but was not.

My second encounter of the first kind came in the late 1970s one mid-summer evening just as the sun had set. I was sitting on a second floor porch on the back of the apartment house where I lived. I just happened to look up and saw a twirling bright red-green-blue colored object at 11 o’clock. It was large. It was much taller than it was wide. It was moving from west to east. At a noticeable speed. I was completely aghast. I had never seen such a sight before. I called another person to come out and observe this moving object. OK, so that person came and we discussed what it could be. He immediately suggested a weather balloon. Eureka! That is what it was. A weather balloon. The varying colored light was a prismatic effect as the long rays of sunlight struck the edges of the moving balloon. No UFO. Just a rare event when the sun light created an unusual effect.

Sorry, BS33L, but you’ll have to add me to those who do NOT believe in UFOs or Area 51 or aliens or panspermea or angels, demons, leprechauns, or silicon based life. And etc.

Thats what people want.Hard proof evidence.Thats always the case,although its not always a reasonable reason to doubt something in existence.there are somethings in this world that do exist.It is just up the people to decide what they want to believe and what they dont.

The betty and Barny Hill abduction set the stage for this major phenomena.
here are the facts.

September 19,1961 Betty and Barny Hill reported beings abducted.Here are the facts.

-It is highly unlikely that this abduction could of been anything else.Not to mention both betty and Barny Hill could not have dreams or imagined this event at the same time. with exactly the saem details.

Many tests and hypnosis were done on the Hills regarding this event.
"Stanton T. Friedman", a nuclear physicist had said that the hIlls were not nuts and suffered no illness or minor mental problems to imagine this abduction up.Not to mention,many close friends and associates of the Hills would never conclude that the Hills were nuts,they were just your average everyday american couple.

Quote: (Henry Regnery Company, 1972): "Under repeated hypnosis they independently revealed what had supposedly happened. The two stories agreed in considerable detail, although neither Betty nor Barney was privy to what the other had said under hypnosis until much later. Under hypnosis they stated that they had been taken separately aboard the craft, treated well by the occupants - rather as humans might treat experimental animals - and then released after having been given the hypnotic suggestion that they would remember nothing of that particular experience. The method of their release supposedly accounted for the amnesia, which was apparently broken only by counterhypnosis." A number of scientists, including Hynek, have discussed this incident at length with Barney and Betty Hill and have questioned them under hypnosis. They concur with Simon's belief that there seems to be no evidence of outright fabrication or lying. One would also wonder what Betty, who has a master's degree in social work and is a supervisor in the New Hampshire Welfare Department, and Barney, who was on the governor of New Hampshire's Civil Rights Commission, would have to gain by a hoax?

Betty and Barney Hill had said these beings gave them a clear discription of the star system they had originated from.Later over a decade following this abduction,the starsystem of Zeta Reticuli was discovered,to scale as what betty and Barny Hill discribed.

General reports
-93% of all close encounters or abduction discribes the same being,the grey.There has been an estimated 3million people all over the globe who have reported being abducted.A large fraction of these reports were of a similar being to that of a Grey,same saucer type.Most people who have reported being abducted had not had any interest or have heard of the grey before,not to mention some had not believed in extra terrestrials until their abduction.Take this case in Zimbabwe.62 kids reported almost if not the same discription of greys and the spacecraft.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reports such as this come out everyyear.How do you explain abduction in rural areas where people have no means of elctronic or media entertainment and yet report exact discriptions of U.F.O`s and aliens beings.

A census done in Canada alone showed 3million people had seen a U.F.O.Since 98% of all UFO reports are explain at average,that leaves 30,000 unexplained sightings.This is huge.Especially for Canada`s size.
Source: www.ufoevidence.org...

You explain to me NOW how so many people report the same sightings of saucers and close encounter.You tell me now that all those people are imagining things..

hypnosis is a very strong technique in proving whether events happened or not.You cannot lie in an hypnosis,neither can you imagine it.hypnosis is done on a daily basis for many who have claimed to have been abducted.All report the same thing,taken into the ship,grey beings,experiments.

This major incident might be of interest to you.
ufocasebook.com...
www.subversiveelement.com...
You tell me right now that these objects were air balloons.I dare you.You tell many others who were there in DC when this happend that these are airballoons.

If you dont believe in abductions and UFO sightings,what are you doing here?

Are you really prepared to tell some of the members here,who have been abducted before that they are imagining all this?

Do you really have the nerve to come onto a very serious sight such as this and question the existence of these beings,dispite the mounting evidence of 1000`s possibly 100,00`s of reports of abductions,millions of UFO sightings,crop circle occurences,Peru Nazca lines,and physicle evidence such as body marks?

Do you really believe that your going to change everyone with evidence you have provided in the last thread?

What difference have you made?So long as you are on this site trying to disprove the E.B.E Phenomenon,you are going to have a very hard time trying to change others.

There are many members that have seen what you have not,including many others around the world.This has effected them mentally and physicaly.Not to mention some of their social and family lives have been destroyed because the world forces them to deny something they so clearly encountered.What right do you have to tell them that their wrong if you were not there?.

If you dont believe in UFO`s and close encounters,its your choice.But if you have the nerve to come onto a site like this and disprove many beliefs,constantly,because you think otherwise,then I question your one sided view.And i really question how you could in a realistic sense expect to gain from this?




[edit on 25-3-2006 by blackSt33L]

I think the only way you will convince many people that aliens exist is if Dick Cheney shoots one on the white house lawn. Afterwards he'll swear he was aiming at a bird.

I'm one of those people that aren’t convinced one way or the other. Is it possible? Yes. Is it true? I don't know. That’s the part that bothers me, I don't know. I want to know the truth one-way or the other. That’s why I live for sites like ATS. Perhaps here I can finally get some answers.

I’m even open to the possibility that mankind is not the top of the species when it comes to planet Earth. That the UFO’s and other anomalies are actually a species that is native to this planet but of a higher intelligence and far more advanced then we are. As an example:

Ants have many characteristics of the human species. They wage war, take slave’s, get drunk, teach their young to perform tasks properly. They have a hierarchy with a dominant queen, her minions and a work force that contributes to the ant society by helping to build and spread the colony. They have an army and a working class.

Yet ants know nothing about mankind and the abilities that we have. They occasional may catch a glimpse of us or the world we inhabit, and then go home and tell their ant friends they saw an alien from another world. It could only have come from another world because they are the dominant species on this one. Or so they believe.

There may be a higher species than mankind that is native to this planet. We may be the ants just thinking that we are the highest.

I honestly hope the conspiracies we discuss here are not true.

I just want to know the truth behind them.

Love and light,

Wupy

the thought of superior life in this world always comes down to not aliens or at least the definition of thought as an alien is from a different planet etc. I think it would be more likely to see an entity so to speak from a different dimension ie heaven/hell/afterlife what have you.

I don't believe, I'm 100% convinced their here.
The millions of abductions alone can't be explained any other way.
There's just too much coincidence and correlating facts from different sources that fit together like a glove.
I've been interested in this for over a year, and must have done about 1000 hours of reading atleast on the subject, including forums.
I've met tons of real life people who have witnessed or have had friends that have witnessed, aswell as individuals on forums.
It's not hope or weird desires for something greater than nothing else out there. I really wish they would leave are planet alone, but I just can't even try to see it as false, sometimes it scares me and I try my hardest to think otherwise, but it just is what it is.

I think people just have a hard time beleiving, because are human knowledge is so caveman and ridiculously small. Alot of things our minds just can't bend around right. Unless they gradually aquire some sort of thirst for knowlegde, fascination with learning things, or just open their minds enuff, it's always gonna seem too unbeleivable.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I think the view that this little speck of nothing we call earth is home to the only intelligent life in the whole universe is perhaps the most egocentric concept mankind has ever come up with.

That's exactly how I feel.

I am astounded whenever an intelligent person thinks otherwise. Personally I think those people are just regurgitating what others told them and not seriously considering the matter for themselves.

Wait...what? Ants get drunk? Sweet. haha.

I personally don't think aliens could be a physical advanced race living on our planet. The only place they could be is deep underwater or inside the Earth. And I'm 99% convinced that the Earth isn't hollow. If they lived "on Earth", the only option I would say is Interdimensional. They could exist on Earth "one frequency up". We can only hear/see a very small spectrum. Although then I don't know how they would be primarilly undetected, but then sometimes become visible (Unless they are purposefully doing it).

I view aliens much the same way as Bigfoot. I don't know if I can be certain I believe in them until I see them. But there are a lot of credible people out there who say these things exist, so I take their word for it. I trust them.

I think 90% of educated people can agree that there is most likely another intelligent civilization SOMEWHERE in the universe, whether they are visiting us or not.

i'm sure that there is life out there somewhere...
i know the fact that they ain't visited us is proof that they're intellegent.


or maybe they just ain't visited me...hmm

posted by Lucid Lunacy: “ShadowXIX said ‘. . this little speck of nothing we call earth is home to the only intelligent life in the whole universe is perhaps the most egocentric concept . . ‘ That's exactly how I feel. I am astounded when an intelligent person thinks otherwise. I think those people are just repeating what others told them and not seriously considering the matter for themselves.“ [Edited by Don W]

IF there are 300 billion galaxies, and if on average, there are 300 billion stars per galaxy, then it follows the number of stars in the Universe is 90,000 X ten to the 12th power. 90 quadrillion stars. If 10% or 15% of all stars are like our Sun, then that is truly a large number of opportunities for habitable planets we are familiar with to form.

TWO coincidences of planet formation stand out as factors limiting the potential for our type of life. First, water. Water is the basis of life as we know it. Early on in Earth’s history our planet acquired water. The surface of the planet had to have been no colder than 32 deg F, and no hotter than 212 deg F. ASIDE. Water itself had to possess that unusual expansion or contraction rate as it changes from liquid to solid, lest our planet’s water would be frozen solid long ago.

Second, our planet’s core had to be composed of a semi-fluid electrical conducting material, such as iron and nickel. But for the resulting magnetic field protecting Earth from the constant solar wind, life here would have been killed almost before it started. I don’t suppose there is any way to calculate the frequency a star of the right kind would have planets of the right size equipped with both water and an iron core. Now that’s got to be a small number.

Because of the distances involved, the likelihood of any planet ever contacting another planet are surely approaching zero. It is only been since 1901 the Earth has transmitted intelligent signals into space. The website, www.solstation.com... lists 14 stars or groups up to 100 light years distant from Earth. Allowing time for a return message, the number of stars or groups in 50 light years is reduced to 11. That any one of those stars would harbor Earth-type life is ultra remote. Sorry, L/L, but inter-planetary contact will not happen in your lifetime.

[edit on 3/25/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by blackSt33L
Thats what people want.Hard proof evidence.

Yep, hard evidence is a good thing.
September 19,1961 Betty and Barny Hill reported beings abducted.
Nice hard fact. We can prove it, and more to the point, disprove it if it's false.
It is highly unlikely that this abduction could of been anything else.Not to mention both betty and Barny Hill could not have dreams or imagined this event at the same time. with exactly the saem details.
Oops, back to opinion and conjecture. There's nothing wrong with opinion or conjecture, but we do need to recognize it as such.

Many tests and hypnosis were done on the Hills regarding this event.
Again, a nice neat fact.
"Stanton T. Friedman", a nuclear physicist had said that the hIlls were not nuts and suffered no illness or minor mental problems to imagine this abduction up.Not to mention,many close friends and associates of the Hills would never conclude that the Hills were nuts,they were just your average everyday american couple.
Hmmm...more difficult, this is opinion wrapped up as fact. Everyone may not completely agree with Mr. Friedman or the Hill's buddies. But I'll accept it as a fact the he and they do feel that way.

Quote: (Henry Regnery Company, 1972): "Under repeated hypnosis they independently revealed what had supposedly happened...
This I like. It's sounds like the direct report of qualified observer. But the 'repeated hypnosis' bothers me.

Betty and Barney Hill had said these beings gave them a clear discription of the star system they had originated from.
This I will differ with. Only under repeated hypnosis did they "remember" these details. There have been a number of current studies into the 'false memory' problem: Google provides a good start for information on both sides of the issue. I also recall that Betty used words more like "...where they come from..."; to me, the map looks like the DFW Metroplex, including the old I-30 turnpike between Dallas and Ft. Worth.

So, it proves...what? It is evidence, true, and some of it quite compelling (although some of it screams to me "Beware of hynotherapists!"), but it demonstrates...what? People have strange experiences? Ok, people have strange experiences and report being abducted and 'probed'. I'm still waiting for the proof that it's extraterrestrials.

93% of all close encounters or abduction discribes the same being, the grey.
That's a hard number. Source?

Have you noticed a trend for 'greys' to evolve? In the 40's and 50's it seems like they looked like people, but a few years later they were silver and/or green. Some have been in black leotards, if I recall correctly, and even some in light, almost white outfits. Now they're grayish. And didn't they used to have antennas sticking out from their ear bulges?

...an estimated 3 million people all over the globe who have reported being abducted.
Semi-hard number. Who's estimate?
A large fraction of these reports were of a similar being to that of a Grey, same saucer type.
Again, source? Your own research or passing on something you read?

In my readings I have a sense that every encounter is a bit different, that the only things common are:

-- small human(oid)s, but not small all the time;
-- silver craft;
-- if abducted, the event almost always started with a close sighting;
-- victim often feels sick or drowsy or hot before abduction;
-- medical exam;
-- temporal confusion and/or 'missing time' (amnesia).

...Zimbabwe...
Yep, I think they saw something. I also know for a fact that the spooks (CIA/NRO/etc) were there first, by several years, and seemed to be VERY interested in that spot.

How do you explain abduction in rural areas where people have no means of elctronic or media entertainment and yet report exact discriptions of U.F.O`s and aliens beings
They don't necessarily report aliens. They report strange things, which we (well, not all of us) interpret and report as alien.

...(statistics, yada, yada, yada)...

You explain to me NOW how so many people report the same sightings of saucers and close encounter. You tell me now that all those people are imagining things..
They're not imagining things. They're just not seeing aliens. I'll explain on my own schedule, thanks.

You tell me right now that these objects were air balloons. I dare you.You tell many others who were there in DC when this happend that these are airballoons.

Blimps. Airships. Not balloons. There's a big difference.

Hey folks! Those things you saw in DC in '52 were probably airships. Yep, stupid old blimps.Ha! You thought you didn't need a new national radar system, but those blimp guys showed you, right? Oh...you thought they were space ships? You mean, nobody noticed they came from the direction of the Aberdeen Proving Ground and Lakehurst blimp base? Oh, well...sorry.

Are you really prepared to tell some of the members here, who have been abducted before that they are imagining all this?
Your words, not mine. Actually, I am eager to communicate with abductees. I have theories to confirm, remember?

Do you really have the nerve to come onto a very serious sight such as this and question the existence of these beings, dispite the mounting evidence of 1000`s possibly 100,00`s of reports of abductions,millions of UFO sightings,crop circle occurences,Peru Nazca lines,and physicle evidence such as body marks?
Can and do. Like I said, the believers and UFOlogists have had at least 60 years and haven't come up with squat. You haven't either, I notice, just repeating stuff you've read elsewhere.

Do you really believe that your going to change everyone with evidence you have provided in the last thread?
Nope, but every encounter is a learning experience.

... the nerve to come onto a site like this and disprove many beliefs...
If I can disprove anything, it was bogus to begin with.

You might try to understand, although that may be beyond your abilities, that I am here for answers, not just more questions. And strangely enough, I'm getting some. I may not have all the answers yet, but I think I'm seeing more than any oof-ologist in the past decades. I love Betty and Barney; I love the Zimbabwe kids. They're going to help me prove my case. And, if it's not too much hubris, maybe I'll be able to offer some closure to those victims you cry over so much.

I notice you haven't actually tried to counter any argument I've made, or provide counter-evidence, or show me where I've erred. If you don't mid, I'll keep plodding along, finding new facts and connections and letting everybody know about them.