ATS: Pentagon Report: Russian Pre-War Intelligence Given to Saddam

Double Post.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by deltaboy]

What needs to be asked is what were/are Russian sources doing inside our military command? What does that say of our military? Do we have spies that go "all the way to the top"?

Pretty scary stuff...

Good point elderban I wonder also as how high the spying goes, funny that this news is only making the US looks weak when it comes to control the amount of spying that goes on in his own backyard when it comes to foreign countries.

Originally posted by marg6043
Good point elderban I wonder also as how high the spying goes, funny that this news is only making the US looks weak when it comes to control the amount of spying that goes on in his own backyard when it comes to foreign countries.

(Shrugs). The Russians are good at spying on the U.S. even after the Cold War was over. Remember the FBI agent arrested in 2000? How about the fiasco of the NSA spying infiltrated by the Russians back in the 80s?

deltaboy

Yes I remember but you also have to understand that the FBI went through a Reconstruction after Bush took over office.

So I still kind of wonder about, the spies most have to be in very high places.

Not really a surprise.

I'm sure Iraq paid for the information. Russia (like most countries) have services for sale.

Originally posted by marg6043
deltaboy

Yes I remember but you also have to understand that the FBI went through a Reconstruction after Bush took over office.

So I still kind of wonder about, the spies most have to be in very high places.

Interesting post but it must be noted that the sources that provided the Russians with information were in the American High Command. So they were probably military personnel.

"Sources within the American Command" ? What there saying the Russians inflirtarted the American Command of Iraq and gave reports to the Iraqis? Thats freaking nuts. Wow I didn't know the Russians were spying on us again. We need better counter-intelligence too how do you get into the counter-intelligence? And sorry if I repeated a lot the same things I didnt read anything on page 2. Anyways hmm makes us wonder if theres any russian spy rings currently operationg in america.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by PsychoSteve85]

Originally posted by Odium
So...

The Russian's sold them the WMD.
The Russian's informed the United State's of the WMD.
The Russian's helped transport them to Syria, Iran, etc.
Then Russia told the Iraqi Government how they planned to attack.

Roughly, the United State's got played into killing thousands of people, having more terrorists hate them, a war which is near impossible to win and that has cost the tax payer millions as well as the Government's standing in the internatioanl community.

The United State's got played...and who says the Cold War's dead and Russia lost it? lol

First off, I think your claims that Russia sold Iraq WMD's as well as transported them back out of the country are quite ignorant. Such a feat could but never would be pulled off with all the political implications that could result.

In fact, before you say that "the U.S. got played" you should understand that the U.S. didn't play anyone but themselves. They should have goten all their facts straight before they went in. You simply can't pin this whole war on Russia because each country that is part of the "Coalition" in Iraq is there for some personal benefit.

Spying on us again!--Hell they've never stopped spying on us PsychoSteve85. But neither have we stopped spying on them, it is the prudent thing to do for both sides.

As far as the U.S. being played by the Russians goes, I seriously doubt that, but if it takes heat off the administration to let people think so, then go with it. I think it was more a matter of not pouring water on what the administration wanted to do anyway.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by Agent47

So they were probably military personnel.

Hum. . . military. . . high ranking. . . for some reason Rumsfeld comes to mind, I don't know why and it kind of sounds ridiculous, but you never know if the information was allowed to be leaked in purpose or not.

Because like I said before it did nothing in favor of Saddam anyway.

Originally posted by Agent47
According to a recently released unclassified Pentagon report entitled "Iraqi Perspectives Project", Saddam's forces received intelligence regarding American troop movements from the Russian ambassador in Baghdad. According to the report Russian intelligence agencies had sources inside American central command in the days leading up to the invasion.

According to a fairly lengthy report on CNN today, much of the intelligence supplied by Russia to Iraq was inaccurate. They suggested that Russia convinced Saddam that the stronger blow would come from the north.

Even given the "pipeline" of information coming from the Russians, Saddam refused to act on advice from his senior commanders that they destroy the bridges south of Baghdad, fearing that his greater threat was from a Shiite uprising in the south and that his military would need those bridges for a counter-attack. CNN intimated that this may have been part of Russia's faulty intelligence.

CNN said the report pointed to the US command based in Qatar as the source of the "Russian Infiltration". If it turns out to be true that much of Russia's intelligence was faulty, then perhaps American Military Intelligence used the Russians as a vector for some "disinformation".

I can try to find a link to the CNN report...

And, no, I am no friend of Russia.

Rest assured this is the LEAST the Russians will do for Iran. The amount of penetration the Russians have in the American High Command is quite considerable.

I wish I had the link saved, from Russia, about the "quotes from Russian officials" saying the war in Iraq helped them assess U.S. forces in war, or something along those lines. Now I can't remember if I gave that link in a thread I started, or in response to someone else's post....

I gave this link about a year back or so, I will see if I can dig it up again.

Oh BTW Subz, unless you said that president Bush' ratings was the lowest from any other president, then that wasn't in response to you. Anyways, that would be for another thread.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by Muaddib]

OK...so I re-read the wire dispatch, which makes a note that there was no knowledge of the value of the info...looks like maybe CNN got it wrong...

Found the link, in ATSNN, as well as some other ATSNN links about this same issue.

Last week it was disclosed that two retired three-star generals -- Vladislav Achalov (a former paratrooper and specialist in urban warfare) and Igor Maltsev (a specialist in air defense) -- visited Baghdad recently and were awarded medals by Hussein. The awards were handed out by Iraqi Defense Minister Sultan Khashim Akhmed.

It was reported that the retired generals helped Hussein prepare a war plan to defeat the Americans. Achalov confirmed he was in Baghdad just before the war and received medals from Hussein for services rendered. He also told journalists that the defense of Baghdad was well organized, U.S. tanks would be burned if they enter the city and U.S. infantry would be slaughtered. According to Achalov, the only way the allies could ever take Baghdad and other Iraqi cities was to raze them to the ground by carpet bombing.

Last week, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov echoed Achalov's opinion: "If the Americans continue to fight accurately, avoiding high casualties, the outcome is uncertain. If the Americans begin carpet bombing, Iraq will be defeated." Ivanov also announced that the Defense Ministry was attentively studying the war in order to learn how to build a stronger Russian army

www.cdi.org...

As to the comments that seem to imply these two retired Russian generals, and other Russians that helped Saddam's regime had no link with the Kremlin, here are some interesting excerpts and links.

According to the Russian website www.gazeta.ru, former Soviet generals have also admitted that, just days before the beginning of the U.S.-led campaign against Iraq, they received state awards from Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. These are senior retired Soviet officers, General (three-star) Vladimir Achalov and General (also three-star) Igor Maltsev. Achalov, former Soviet deputy defense minister, participated in the failed putsch against then-Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev. He was also the Soviet airborne-troops commander and the last Soviet commander-in-chief of the rapid-reaction forces. Maltsev, who is considered a leading authority in air defense, was the chief of the Main Staff of the Soviet Air Defense. He is also a pardoned 1991 coup plotter.

Russian defense sources in Moscow told NRO that both retired generals had to obtain permission from top-level Russian political and military authorities to perform their advisory roles. Thus Russia's official denials that the Kremlin did not know about the "mission to Baghdad" can only sound hollow.

www.nationalreview.com...

Russian engineers secretly aided Saddam Hussein's long-range ballistic missile program, US Government officials say.

Iraqis who were involved in the missile work told US investigators that the technicians had not been working for the Russian Government, but for a private company. But any such work on Iraq's banned missiles would have violated United Nations sanctions, even as the Security Council sought to enforce them.
.............
Because some of the experts were said to have formerly worked for one of Russia's aerospace design centres, which remains closely associated with the state, their work for Iraq has raised questions in Washington about whether Moscow officials knew of their involvement in forbidden missile programs.

www.smh.com.au...

Here is what the U.S. government did about this, which probably we should have done more, although I admit that I don't know enough on the reasons behind our government not protesting more forcefully against Russia for their involvement in helping Iraq.

The United States delivered a protest to the government of President Vladimir Putin yesterday for refusing to stop Russian arms dealers from providing illegal weapons and assistance to the Iraqi military.

Bush administration sources said one Russian company is helping the Iraqi military deploy electronic jamming equipment against U.S. planes and bombs, and two others have sold antitank missiles and thousands of night-vision goggles in violation of U.N. sanctions. The sources said Moscow has ignored entreaties from senior Bush administration officials concerned about the threat to U.S. forces.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Here is what happened to a U.S. official for going directly to the press, about Russia's involvement in Iraq's evanescence of wmd, instead of telling government officials first.

A Pentagon official, John A. Shaw, former deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, and formerly an aide to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was dismissed from his job for disclosing information that Russia was tied to the dissapearance of Iraq's WMD. According to Mr. Shaw he was asked to resign for "exceeding his authority" by releasing the information to the public. Mr. Shaw also states that this information on the Russian involvement in moving the weapons from Iraq, was discussed with retired Air Force Lt. Gen. james clapper, the head of Great Britain's MI6, and another foreign intelligence officer whose name Mr. Shaw did not disclose.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

One more link from ATSNN about this topic.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why does everyone find this surprising? Russia was opposed to us invading Iraq in the first place, and second they had a good working relationship with Saddam. What I find surprising was that someone in the American High Command was passing info on to them. Why is what I want to know.

Originally posted by elderban
What needs to be asked is what were/are Russian sources doing inside our military command? What does that say of our military? Do we have spies that go "all the way to the top"?

Pretty scary stuff...

A few months ago I read an article that stated the Russians currently have more spies in the US than they ever had during the cold war. The article claimed we dropped our guard after the "fall of the communist govt" in our haste to be buddy buddy with them. Wish I still had the link. The jist was the belief that the Soviet Union still exists. Stuff like this makes you wonder.

Why isn't this a conspiracy topic among all our resident conspiracists that see conspiracies everywhere? I always found it hard to believe the communists just gave up power with so little fight. It's just not the way they operate.

They also could just be playing both sides to their own benefit. Nothing unusual for them or most any country. This is just an example of why the Russians aren't to be totally trusted.

Originally posted by Odium
Roughly, the United State's got played into killing thousands of people, having more terrorists hate them, a war which is near impossible to win and that has cost the tax payer millions as well as the Government's standing in the internatioanl community.

While i do not believe the cold war ever ended ( it's a great tactic to often make peace with the enemy so as to confuse the hell out of him) i am not so sure that the US does not derive substantial benefit from their actions in Iraq. No nation that wants to win a war sends in one third of the men their current chief of staff( which they decided to fire for not shutting up) tells them will be required for victory and then policing. I just do not believe such mistakes are really made so i end up thinking it's all just another ploy to keep the ME as unstable as humanly possible to put upwards pressure on the global oil prices which leads to growing global demand for USD which obviously negates trade deficits and such to a great extent.

How involved Russia was in supplying the pretext of WOMD i am not sure as weapon inspectors ALWAYS made it clear that there could not possible be much left and certainly not in the form to attack America. I guess it must serve the current American administration to try draw Russia into the mud with them but i do not believe they were suckered into the war based on WOMD or such claims.

The United State's got played...and who says the Cold War's dead and Russia lost it? lol

Not sure about the first but the cold war is not over and the US seems to have lost it.

Before anyone decides to attack me about these claims give these threads a read and decide if i seem able to defend my claims or not.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Stellar

How do we know this is actually true, number one like almost everyone has said, why didnt the iraqi military put up more of a fight, number two, why isnt russia doing anything, if it was true im sure theyd be denying everything left and right.

AND if it is true, why isnt the U.S. doing anything about it, wouldnt you expect Bush to go to Russia to talk about it with Russian leaders?

As for the newer weapons *not wmds*but like night vision goggles and that sort, thats the first im hearing about that.

And not to go off subject but what ever happened to everything going on in afganistan, you dont hear about troops dying over there or anything about bin laden, when hes the whole reason why we are fighting in afganistan and iraq......thats just my question and sorry if this leads off topic