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Argentina: leader in jet fighter technology

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posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Argentina is generally not thought as the centre of aerospace development, but in the immediate post-war years it was something of a hotspot for jet fighter development.

The main reason for this was the fact that key German aircraft designers sought refuge there after WW2.

IAe.27 Pulqui I
The first ever Latin-American fighter jet was designed by famous French aircraft designer Émile Dewoitine in 1946, flying in 1947. Although it used the new jet technology, it was otherwise much like a 1939 piston engine fighter in key respects, such as the straight wing, rounded tail and basic cockpit. The design was a failure; underpowered and unremarkable in performance, it was also difficult to maintain and operate.



IAe.33 Pulqui II
Designed by famous German aircraft designer Kurt Tank (Focke-Wulf Fw 190), The Pulqui-II was truly at the cutting edge of fighter technology. It was based on Kurt’s Ta 138 Huckebein concept, but with a Rolls Royce Nene II jet engine and 40degree swept wings. The first powered flight was in 1950 and the jet went on to perform very well, comparable to the Mig-15 (which incidentally was also evolved from Kurt’s Ta 138 design, hence the similarities). Unfortunately the economic problems that plagued Argentina in the 1950s and 60s killed of the project.



IA.37
Designed by famous German designer Reimar HORTEN in 1954, the IA.37 was to be a supersonic delta-wing fighter powered by two Rolls Royce Avon jets. The project made it to manned unpowered flights but never flew with jets installed.





posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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Argentina was briefly a world power after the second WW- 5th largest economy. The dictatorships ruined everything though. That's pretty interesting



posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 10:39 PM
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Well the reason that Argentina had such a great influx of German scientists post WWII was the fact that these guys were running from ISrael/US prosecutors (and/or jews). The Latin American countries provided them asylum against such.
Infact countries like India also sought these intellectuals and India actually went looking for Kurt Tank(mentioned above) and brought him back to India promising 'secure' asylum(many of these guys were getting tracked and caught in Latin America) if he would help them design a fighter.
And so was born the first indigenous Indian Fighter:
The HF-24 (Hindustan Fighter -24):

HF-24 Marut



posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 11:03 PM
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The Nazis escaped to Latinamerica theory is BS. Latinamerica let more Jewish immigrants in than Europe and Northamerica put together, plus all sided with the allies (Brazil also declared martial law on it's German population). Latinamerican steel, explosives, bases for American subs helped give the allies the edge, and troops in the Alpinines fought battles even the allies wouldn't touch (Brazil alone lost 28,000 troops in the Alpinines). Most of the Nazis escaped to the Soviet Union and America (ratline anybody?). The soup kitchen division might have escaped to Latinamerica though. There is also a myth that the Nazis relocated their Goverment to South America. This might be derived from the bizarre mysticism of Himmler which believed in openings to underground worlds in the poles, but it does not fit history. The Nazi occupation Goverment was caught in Holland. Hitler's succesor was tried if I am correct. Unless we are talking about a post-post occupation shadow nazi conspiracy it ended at that.


One exception: Eichmann *DID* escape to Argentina. The junta which seized power in the 70's helped shield him. Note that nobody liked the Videla regime which killed about 33,000 people (and true to his "heroe" with crematories).


[edit on 23-3-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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In Colombia there were concentration camps for Germans during the war. They were not tortured just confined to farms that were barb-wired. They were jailed until the end of the war. They also took all their properties. A influential political family kept the majority of these properties...

And about Argentina, its sad.
They always think of themselves as an European country located in the wrong part of the world. From time to time they do things like those planes but then they screw everything up. They are Latin Americans after all.

BTW. Apart from Brazil and Embraer, are there any other current Latin American Aviation projects?



posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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The same thing happened in Brazil. The Germans couldn't even light a cigg at night or the police would say they were sending morse code or something (my Mother is Brazilian). Venezuela has some projects involving missile technology, I bet they aren't too good (not as much tech as Argentina or Brazil). Argentina has an identity issue, that's for sure, they are smart but have had bad civil goverment for ages (endemic to latinamerica), also bad economic policy (remember when their currency devalued?). Lately though, their president did something cool to break away from past leaders- he gave the IMF the shaft and renegotiated debt on his terms. Great. Latinamerica needs a few more Chavezesque leaders who don't bend over to big multinationals and foreign interest.


on a side note, I remember one (1) antisemitic incident in Argentina (I lived there). We had a Jewish IT teacher, and we loved making the class a riot and learn squat (friday, school, last subject). So when the teacher was out, we would do crap like start printing insults against each other in "wars" which would eat up all the paper, one of my classmates put a Hitler screen paper on the Teach's pc to piss him off. After the teach came and got pissed off (and left for another coffee) he then used the scanner to scan his face squashed against the machine and put it as the new wallpaper. Best part of the class was when he returned and we were printing a million zillion papers in one of our "wars" (your momma this, your momma that) and after the last paper finally printed he said "Whoever prints the next paper will have to face the principal today" and suddenly a paper prints out randomly along with another 50 or so


[edit on 23-3-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Nakash
The Nazis escaped to Latinamerica theory is BS.


One exception: Eichmann *DID* escape to Argentina. The junta which seized power in the 70's helped shield him. Note that nobody liked the Videla regime which killed about 33,000 people (and true to his "heroe" with crematories).


[edit on 23-3-2006 by Nakash]


Well whatever.. Kurt Tank was extricated from Argentian and brought to India. Maybe the promised hima safe haven AWAY from the argentines..



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 06:25 AM
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Also, Kurt Tank didn't design the Marut when he got to India, it was designed in Argentina as the IA.43 and is one of two different designs that are often referred to, wrongly, as the 'Pulqui III' (the other one being a delta that looks like a cross between the FD.2 and Mirage I ) and he took his IA.43 with him to India and continued its development there.

EDIT 'the other one' being the IA.37 picture above in planemans post.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by waynos]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 09:02 AM
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When i read the topic I thought that you meant that they were the best today... Nice post though, And everything seems to match...



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
Also, Kurt Tank didn't design the Marut when he got to India, it was designed in Argentina as the IA.43 and is one of two different designs that are often referred to, wrongly, as the 'Pulqui III' (the other one being a delta that looks like a cross between the FD.2 and Mirage I ) and he took his IA.43 with him to India and continued its development there.

EDIT 'the other one' being the IA.37 picture above in planemans post.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by waynos]


Really??!I never knew that.

Could you show some links/pics that give us the similarities between the Marut and the IA.43?



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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Here is the one and only picture I have found (thanks to emile for finding it for me again after I lost it!
) And the beginnings of the Marut can be seen here, if only in planform.





posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 12:09 AM
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Umm.. I can't see no picture..



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 05:19 AM
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I re-hosted it somewhere else, can you see this one? Am I the only one who can see this picture in the above post





posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 06:34 AM
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Yes waynos you're the only one ! The 2nd is ok, clearly Marut-esque indeed.



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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Oh.. yeah... very marut-esque as qchoblade so rightly put it..



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Nah waynos, I can see both of the pics too.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 03:37 AM
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thanks shattered, sometimes computers are just a mystery to me



posted on Jun, 18 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to I thought that kurt tank was killed in WW II.
I did not think he survived the war.
great info however.



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Nakash
The Nazis escaped to Latinamerica theory is BS. Latinamerica let more Jewish immigrants in than Europe and Northamerica put together, plus all sided with the allies (Brazil also declared martial law on it's German population).


Gustav Wagner - escaped to Brazil.
Franz Stangl - escaped to Brazil.
Erich Priebke - escaped to Argentina.
Aribert Heim - escaped to Uraguay.
Ante Pavelić - escaped to Argentina.
Walter Rauff - escaped to Chile.
Josef Mengele - escaped to Argentina, settled in Brazil.
Klaus Barbie - escaped to Bolivia.
Edward Roschmann - escaped to Argentina.

And thats only the obvious ones you might have heard about. There are thousands of Nazis who have outstanding war crime charges against them.



There is believed to be a smattering of fugitives in Bolivia, Brazil and Paraguay, but by far the most popular destination was Argentina. A government panel reported in 1999 that at least 180 Nazis facing criminal charges in Europe had moved to Argentina.


www.ebroadcast.com.au...

In addition -

Adolph Galland (Luftwaffe ace) - lived in Argentina for 10 years training Juan Peróns airforce.

Reimar Horten (aircraft designer) - moved to Argentina after WW2 to build aircraft for Juan Peróns airforce.

Kurt Tank (aircraft designer with Focke Wulf) - moved to Argentina after WW2 to build aircraft for Juan Peróns airforce.


Hitler's succesor was tried if I am correct. Unless we are talking about a post-post occupation shadow nazi conspiracy it ended at that.


Admiral Donitz was tried at the Nuremburg Trials, he was in charge of the Third Reich after Hitlers suicide.



posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 06:01 PM
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Why Richard, you forgot to mention the Holton brothers!

How could we forget the Ho-229?

Shattered OUT...



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