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Suicide still grants entry to Heaven in Chrisitan Doctrine.

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posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 02:01 PM
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Having spoken to people regarding the Chrisitan belief about suicide, I am told that..

"suicide results in your soul not entering heaven."

I have to admit that up until looking into this further, I had the same understanding but was sure that this had to be wrong in order for all sins to be forgiven upon death so long as you accept christ as you saviour.

Having looked further into it, I have found the following revelations applicable to this idea that souls burning in hell as a result of suicide is completely wrong.



The Bible does have stories about people who committed suicide but, it doesn't talk about where their souls went - to heaven or to hell. But, Jesus promised: "I am the resurrection and the life - he who believes in me though he may die - yet shall he live." John 11:25

Link to additional info

So as long as you believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as your saviour, regardless of the circumstances of your death you will be saved.


It is also believed that..


Faced with the loss of so many of its members, in the early centuries (4th to 6th) church decided that anyone else who committed suicide was going to hell.



To keep power within the land in which Christianity was prevalent, rules were put in place.

Link to further info

Surely what happens to a persons soul is based purely on how they have acted during their life and not at the end of it.

Does it not make sense that all souls under the Christian doctrine are granted access to heaven?

I would be interested in others opinions regardless of your personal belief.

(I am personally undecided with regards to religion, I find that because of these contradictions in religion I have become more secular.. I beleive that if a person should choose suicide then they have been given an option and chosen their own personal true path and if any God(s) are infallible then the option would not be available and intervention would exist.)




posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 02:38 AM
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Here's the thing....

Whoever said "people who commit suicide go straight to hell" is not very "up" on their christianity i guess is the way to put it.

See we can't know who goes to heaven or hell. people can look at someones actions and get a pretty good idea but...we don't know 100%. So anyone who says "those people don't go" really have no say in the matter.

The only unforgivable sin mentioned in the Bible is "Denying the father."
Suicide is obviously a sin. Your body is the temple of the holy spirit and therefore you are destroying something that is various precious and you are also in affect playing God. but the simple fact is this...we cant pass judgment on a person and tell them they are going to Hell. and even if the Bible had a list of names in it of all people that where going, i think it would be really crossing the line to declare that judgment to people because the fact is..we aren't God and judgment isnt our job. im not some liberal christian or something...but i just dont think anyone has earned that position of judgment but Christ. Our job is to be the best that we can be, put God first, and be a good example for others. It might not be as fun as pointing your finger and shouting at somebody but frankly thats all we have earned at this point.

Cherrio!
DigitalGrl



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 06:05 AM
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And what happens to people who've never heard of the bible or Jesus and live lifestyle's we may consider immoral and wrong. Say, a canabalism tribe.



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 06:06 AM
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To answer your question,

I would say God would look at their hearts and decide accordingly.

If i say to you "they go to heaven" or "they go to hell" that doesn't make it so. since nothing i say concerning a persons eternal judgment has the power to actually make that happen. i'm not God. So i think that its important to pray for those people and its ok to hope that they all be saved. its is not heretical to say that one hopes that all things be saved. i think all good people wish that. But i'm not about to demand that they all MUST be. again, i'm not about to make these kinds of judgments.


Cherrio!
Digitalgrl



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by DigitalGrl
To answer your question,

I would say God would look at their hearts and decide accordingly.

If i say to you "they go to heaven" or "they go to hell" that doesn't make it so. since nothing i say concerning a persons eternal judgment has the power to actually make that happen. i'm not God. So i think that its important to pray for those people and its ok to hope that they all be saved. its is not heretical to say that one hopes that all things be saved. i think all good people wish that. But i'm not about to demand that they all MUST be. again, i'm not about to make these kinds of judgments.


Cherrio!
Digitalgrl


But the New Testament says only through Jesus, doesn't it? And one of the Commandments, thou shalt not kill is broken by a tribe of canibals. So wouldn't they goto hell despite them not knowing this comandment or not knowing they need to follow Jesus to get into heaven?



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 07:17 AM
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3 things ...

#1 -
If a person commits suicide because they are mentally ill or in such pain
that their thought process is impaired, then God isn't going to condemn a
soul to hell because of that suicide. If He did, then He isn't a God that I'd
want to worship anyways.


#2 -
My personal experience with a soul who has commited suicide is as follows-
My husband and I had a good friend in high school - Steve. We lost touch
with him over the years. One day, a couple of years ago, I thought of
Steve and had a very warm fuzzy feeling about him. It was like he had
just given my soul a big loving happy hug. It was out of the blue. I hadn't
thought of him in years. It was a SOULFUL event. Very spiritual and it
lasted all of 10 seconds. The next day my phone rang. My my was calling
to say that Steve had committed suicide. He had clinical depression for
many years and he finally couldn't take it anymore.

I am absolutely sure that Steve stopped by 'on his way out' to give my
soul a hug and to say that he was relieved and happy and everything
was just fine. He wouldn't have been able to do that if his soul was
being tormented in hell.

3 - As people learn more about science and mental health, those churches
that used to automatically condemn souls to hell because of suicide are
now thinking in a more responsible and rational manner. Suicides are no
longer excluded from Christian cemetaries/burials. No longer are the
survivors subjected to the old 'that soul is in hell' garbage. People
now understand mental health issues better and so the churches are
becoming much more compassionate in this area.



[edit on 3/25/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 02:35 AM
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Good response flyer


and just to further add to the answer..yes their are certian things outlined in the bible that are necessary for salvation. the 10 commandments aren't something that you can NEVER break though. there is forgivness for sins. nobody can follow those to a "T" if they could..what would we need Jesus for. as for someone out there at some tribe that never heard about Jesus i think that God is a just and merciful God, and there is definate hope for them to be saved. but again, we dont know 100% just by examining people on the outside whether or not they go to hell. thats why it think it is important that people focus on their own personal accountability instead of trying to figure out where everyone else stands.

Cherrio!
digitalgrl



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 06:56 AM
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Jesus says though, only through him. Jesus also says he and God are one, so wouldn't Jesus be the final say all in a situation such as that? From what Jesus says in the bible, being God's authoritive word, even some innocent child who never ever heard of him would surely not get into heaven. Because Jesus say's so, who is God's authoritive word. Or do we not have to listen to God's word through Jesus in situation's like that just because it doesn't "feel" right to us?



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Prot0n
From what Jesus says in the bible ... even some innocent child
who never ever heard of him would surely not get into heaven.


Do you have some quotes so we can refer to them here? Thanks.

I think I remember the bible saying that those who rejected Christ
wouldn't get to heaven.

A person who has not heard of Christ, or those that have heard of
Him but don't know Who He is, can't really reject Him can they? To
really reject Christ you have to know of Him and you have to fully
and completely know Who He is first.

Therefore, it would make sense (at least to me) that after a
person dies God would inform him/her of His plan and of
Christ and then allow the person to accept or reject Him.

Otherwise, God would just be making people with the sole purpose
of sending them to Hell. That's not a loving father, and that's not
a God of justice. The bible claims God is a loving father and a just God.



posted on Mar, 26 2006 @ 07:36 AM
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"No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

Surely one who is religous and know's his bible better then some unsaved heathen would know where Jesus says this.



A person who has not heard of Christ, or those that have heard of
Him but don't know Who He is, can't really reject Him can they? To
really reject Christ you have to know of Him and you have to fully
and completely know Who He is first.


So, say a missionary group went to one of these tribe's and tried teaching them, and they chose not to believe, does this mean all those people will now goto hell because they chose to live the way they've been living for thousands of years?



Therefore, it would make sense (at least to me) that after a
person dies God would inform him/her of His plan and of
Christ and then allow the person to accept or reject Him.


This isn't what god or Jesus says in the bible. Actually, that sounds an awful lot like many older pagan polytheistic religions that Christianity claims to not come from or have any elements of.



Otherwise, God would just be making people with the sole purpose
of sending them to Hell. That's not a loving father, and that's not
a God of justice. The bible claims God is a loving father and a just God.


The bible claims, yes. But how does one justify a punishment upon an individual when one know's that no matter what, that individual will sin. God knew through creating the tree and satan that we would be decieved and lead into sin. Really think about it. If you were in such a position, how woulf YOU justify something like that.

That's like saying to a 4 year old "Don't eat that m&m off the floor!" You know he/she is going to do it, but you still tell him no. He/she does it and you turn around and smack him/her. How do you justify such a harsh punishment when all you could've done was take the m&m and thrown it in the trash where it belongs? You specifically. How do YOU justify something like that?

[edit on 26-3-2006 by Prot0n]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 12:57 AM
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for me... I am a christian in heart and kidneys.. and have unfortunately been on the brink of suicide due to mental illness..

now one of the things preventing me to do it, was the actual fear of ending up in hell.. The other (most important) thing that withheld me was the presence of God in these terrible moments.. I simply could not ignore His requests to not do it.. He was like all around and in me, trying to change my mind in everyway possible.. and he succeeded, luckily.

You'll have to confess your sins and repent to be able to enjoy the forgiveness that Jesus delivered on the cross.. how are you going to do that after you kill yourself? I sure hope for the unlucky souls who read this and get motivated by this again to kill themselves, that Jesus will be waiting to take their last confession.. but I sincerely doubt that, though He would really be a cool dude if he were...

remember you're taking a life wich belongs to God... suicide is the same as murder, doesn;t matter to God if it's yourself or someone else..

And besides dealing with yourself and God, there's the tremendous loss you will be causing for your close ones and family..

My conclusion after this experience is that suicide is one of the most selfish acts that exist, allthough I must add that mental instability can bring out the most selfishness in a person.. kind of like a survival instinct was awakened in me.. not to stay alive, but to mentally survive by escaping from the hell wich I perceived my life to be at that time.

[edit on 27-3-2006 by phiniks]



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by Prot0n
"No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

Yes. There is also the part about Christ saying that anyone
who denies Him, He will also deny to the Father.

I know that. What I was talking about was the DENY part.
People who don't know Christ can't be guilty of denying Him
since they don't know Him. See?


... will now go to hell because they chose to live the
way they've been living for thousands of years?


Only God can decide that. However, if they don't believe what
the missionary is saying ... if they don't believe that he is telling the
truth ... and they deny what he says, then they aren't really
denying Christ. They have to actually know Who and What
Christ is to really and truly deny Him. Otherwise they are just
dismissing what some other human says or dismissing what
they consider to be an afront to their way of life.



This isn't what god or Jesus says in the bible.


So what? Lots of truths are in the world that aren't found in
the bible. The bible even says that if all the truths that Christ
taught were written down, then there wouldn't be enough
books to hold them all. I was giving you what I believe probably
happens ... that God in some way must show people Himself and
His plan and then give people the chance to accept or reject Him.
If it doesn't happen in this life, then it happens in the next.
It's just my thought on it. I don't know if anyone through the ages
has come up with that same thought or not.

What I was saying is that it doesn't make sense to condem someone
to hell who hasn't had a chance to accept or reject Christ. I know that
scripture says God is all knowing and all wise, etc. etc. etc. and that
what makes sense to Him doesn't necessarily make sense to us.
BUT ... if someone rejects Christ but doesn't really understand
Who and What Christ is, then they haven't really rejected Him.
IF God is all Just and Wise (IF!), then He wouldn't create
someone just to send them to Hell because they hadn't heard of Christ.

That wouldn't be a good Father now would it??

PHINKS - I understand what you said about suicide being selfish.
In normal instances I agree with you. But there is mental illness to
consider. Many people who commit suicide are mentally ill - have
clinical depression, hallucinations, etc etc. They absolutely can not
be held accountable. Their 'reality' is not reality.

I am glad things have been working out for you and that your
situation strengthened you. Now perhaps you can help others
get through their difficult times!!



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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I know that. What I was talking about was the DENY part.
People who don't know Christ can't be guilty of denying Him
since they don't know Him. See?


Here, read this. Raises some good point's, and verses.

alienman.blogspot.com...



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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People who don't know Christ can't be guilty of denying Him

So what? It says that you only get to the father by way of the son, so whats it got to do with not knowing him?

Also, think about it, what you suggest makes sense for peopel that were around before jesus, or say people in like china or alaska for a while after jesus, because either they'd heard of him or not.

But then, what about people who, all they've heard is 'those christians, they eat human flesh and drink human blood, and they beleive in a zombie god named jesus who they say died for our sins'. After hearing that, and not accepting it, does a person go to heaven or hell?

Does a person have to read the gospels, and if so, which ones, before they have 'known enough of jesus' to be able to be 'hell worthy' for 'denying him'?

It seems that it has nothing to do with that at all. Rather jesus was saying to the people around him 'you can't get to heaven except through me, period'.



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Prot0n
read this. Raises some good point's, and verses.


hmmmmmmm. Very interesting ProtOn.

from the source - God is not obligated to save anyone, and He does
no injustice to anyone for allowing their sins to condemn them.

hmmmmmm. Gotta' think about that. He's not obligated to save
anyone. True. But He shouldn't expect for people to see Him as
'Father' if he creates some people just to allow them to perish in
eternal torment due to no fault of their own. A deadbeat dad.

Good link ProtOn. I'll have to give it some thought. hmmmmm ....



posted on Mar, 27 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
jesus was saying to the people around him 'you can't get to
heaven except through me, period'.


Sure. All I am saying is that it is MY belief that those who don't
know Him won't be condemned to Hell. They have to be given
a chance to know Him and accept or reject Him. A Just and
Merciful God who wants us to call Him 'Father' wouldn't create
children just to have them tossed away through no fault of
their own. It doesn't make sense.

(I know ... I know ... 'God's ways aren't our ways')

The billions of people who were on the planet before Christ died
can't possibly all be in hell. Moses and Elijah stood with the transfigured
Christ on the mountain. They didn't know Christ while they were
alive and yet they obviously 'made it' in the afterlife.


Does a person have to read the gospels, and if so, which ones, before they have 'known enough of jesus' to be able to be 'hell worthy' for 'denying him'?


Only God would know if a person truly knows Christ and if that person
has really rejected Him. I would think that if people knew Him as
God incarnate and they rejected Him, then THAT would be rejection.
But only God knows for sure.

BTW - I brought up the 'deny Jesus' thing because it says in the gospels
that Christ said 'those that deny me, I will deny to the Father'.



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