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NEWS: Use Of SWAT Teams Out Of Control?

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posted on Mar, 13 2007 @ 10:35 PM
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I personally think it is outa hand. I live in NZ now, but am from Ft Worth, Texas...was watching TV the other nite..."Texas Swat" comes on...right in the beginning they state there are 17 SWAT teams in Texas...WHY???...there are only 8 maybe 9 cities of sizable consequence in Texas...why the hell do the smaller towns need SWAT teams???

Becasuse its a status symbol to intimidate the populace, and once you have one, you gotta use it...they are expensive. So consequently they use them for EVERYTHING!!! just to recoup funds.

IMO it's just egalitarism...it grows the gulf between us and them...problem is "them" are way over equipped to be handeling the actions of the everyday people. 90% or better of the population are NOT criminals...why do they need a police force that resembles a military force...for a general populace?



df1

posted on Mar, 13 2007 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
If it were up to me SWAT teams would be serving every felony warrant, we simply are too outgunned nowadays. Buy body armor and assault weapons is relativly easy, and the number of criminals with each are increasing daily.

My expectation is that you will get exactly what you want, because a whole lot of people with the necessary weapons skills are currently in the pipeline being trained in Iraq. As the hostilities in Iraq come to a close these well trained future police officers will be coming home and applying for jobs in our neighborhoods. And let their be no doubt that they will bring their field tested lessons into practice on their new jobs at home. Gosh, doesn't that make everyone feel safer already?



posted on Mar, 13 2007 @ 11:04 PM
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SWAT Teams

Pure Power

SCARY



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by df1
Gosh, doesn't that make everyone feel safer already?


Yes it does, considering the experience and personality of a military man, civilians should consider themselves lucky we have such individuals for public service...



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 03:08 AM
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The original post was about a year ago,I`m glad someone gave it a bump otherwise I would have missed this.

I watch the American TV show Cops here in Australia and I thought by what I`ve seen of normal American police enforcement was over the top and used to intimidate the populace,but reading this about these SWAT teams,man! thats a messed up country.

I wouldn`t go there for a holiday let alone live there.I feel sorry for the decent Americans.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 06:21 AM
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I believe SWAT Teams do have a place in law enforcement, but that things are getting out of hand with their use. SWAT is needed for HIGH-RISK stuff: Hostage situations, Crazed gunmen w/Automatic weapons, ect.

However, they need to really look at where and when they are used. I see them as the civilian equivaent to the Military Special Forces, ONLY for Special situations.

Tim



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
If it were up to me SWAT teams would be serving every felony warrant, we simply are too outgunned nowadays. Buy body armor and assault weapons is relativly easy, and the number of criminals with each are increasing daily.

My expectation is that you will get exactly what you want, because a whole lot of people with the necessary weapons skills are currently in the pipeline being trained in Iraq. As the hostilities in Iraq come to a close these well trained future police officers will be coming home and applying for jobs in our neighborhoods. And let their be no doubt that they will bring their field tested lessons into practice on their new jobs at home. Gosh, doesn't that make everyone feel safer already?



I have been shot 5 times in the line of duty 3 of those times were when myself and other officers were serving felony warrants. At one warrant the guy opened fire with an AK-47 he had 4 75rd drum magazines, so you can imagine how long he held us off, oh and bye the way because of this incident an officer that has a wife and kids will be on disability for the rest of his life.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 07:03 AM
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I am going to get into more of this later, but I wanted to just say this first...

I am a 17 years SWAT veteran and Police Sniper...

It is BECAUSE of my Marine Training that SEVERAL people are alive now...


Simple fact... I went through Police Sniper Training and SWAT training, still that was 1/10 of what the Marines taught me...

Taught me about ...

1. Self Discipline
2. Personal Responsibility
3. Self Control

Semper



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 07:28 AM
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Hi let me tell u my experience with them .
Long long long agaio in a place well only 25 miles away .
I was living on the streets for a few years from the gae of 17 to 22.
and way theres this park in tallahassee florida some of the homeless hang out at .The park is half a block from the police station and is compleatly circled with mid class homes . ( nice place )
anyway a copple yoyooos (just for the record white yoyoos)
were down this park thats near these peoples homes talking about how they had all these guns .( said yoyoos dident accutly have guns )
anyway some people that lived in the area over heard this stupid conversation and called it in.
The next day im down this park sitting at a pickinc table next to a table the same yoyoos that were there the day befor are now sitting at. At this point the park is quiet seaminly empty except for a early morning jogger.
within 2 seconds the 2 tables were compleatly sarrounded buy whats best descrided as storm troopers compleatly dressed in black armor helms and shilds probly about 25 of them all sticking guns in our faces (no one move every one down ) man talk abbout impressive if theere had been a guy with a bomb and had his finger on a triger he wouldent have had a chance to use it thats just how fast there were .
Totaly professinal well corantated . Of corse they searched us no wepons found and went on there way . But just let me say they did a fine job and if this world needs storn troopers then these are the guys i want protecting me .
wile i have no dought there are bad cops and bad things happen in all my years on the streets and all the cops i had to deal with I only ever ran into problems once or twice .
Ps my spelling bites yes in know so save your rants.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 07:38 AM
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I'm guessing this is also pushed to happen as part of the cost/benifit statistic, where the high cost of SWAT teams needs to be validated by putting them in the field more often then a couple of times a year.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
I`ve seen of normal American police enforcement was over the top and used to intimidate the populace,but reading this about these SWAT teams,man! thats a messed up country.


Quite frankly you have no idea what you're talking about, SWAT and all upper tier police units are for the most part professional and extremely capable. Why risk lives when these guys can get the job done so much more efficiently? And trust me when you have SWAT show up people are a lot less likely to start shooting at police for various reasons...


Originally posted by gps777
I wouldn`t go there for a holiday let alone live there.I feel sorry for the decent Americans.


You feel sorry for me? Isn't that cute...


df1

posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 08:33 AM
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No personal response to the undocumented first person tall tales offered to rationalize the existence of these armed government SWAT thugs is appropriate or needed as without a doubt these stories are unverifiable and most likely self serving.

This SWAT team can't even it get it right on Armed & Famous with ample opportunity to stage everything for a television show.

SWAT team kills its own, the dead SWAT team member was survived by his wife and two minor daughters.

Targeted 911 whistleblower raided by NY SWAT team. This guys was important in gaining the release of documents proving a government cover-up that deliberately put police, firemen and rescue personnel at risk.

In a minor pot bust SWAT team kills mother Cheryl Noel in overly aggressive home invasion tactics by police officers, according to a Cato Institute study. The study states, "Paramilitary raids on U.S. houses have increased by 1,300 percent in the last 25 years".

SWAT Team in full military combat regalia stormed a rave in Utah, with video showing our nations finest in action.

Fox news reports Fairfax SWAT team kills unarmed optometrist in gambling raid on the doctor's front lawn.

In Atlanta SWAT teams are used to enforce copyright laws for RIAA.

America needs a lot more Andy Griffith and a lot less Rambo.



[edit on 14-3-2007 by df1]



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by shots

Yeah I saw it and no I am not advocating a police state. All I am saying is they are essential in this day and age.

Now if they could ban automatic weapons I would agree with you. Until that changes, I am all for swat teams since they are highly trained to deal with most situations, notice I said most not all.


ban them from who? Law abiding citizens? You can't ban a gun if it was already bought illegally. That is where most the crime comes from, illegal guns. If you think an assault weapons ban with make assault weapons disappear off the streets, thats ridiculous. A guy can buy an AK-47 illegally without too much a hassle. If some one really wanted an AK-47, they could get it illegally and easily.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 11:23 AM
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With my experience with police, I'd trust the mafia before I would a cop.

When I was married to my ex, my now ex sister-in-law was driving home with her 3 small kids. This is a small town. Very small town. She gets pulled over by police and the cop had already called for back up. He waves this gun around in the face of her and her babies telling them not to move. Back up arrives and the cop finally allows her to reach for her registration while two guns are now pointed at her. Why was she pulled over? They told her it was because she had an air freshener hanging from her rear view mirror. The two oldest kids were traumatized from it. The youngest was a young baby. The oldest at the time I think was 5 years old. Very scary criminals we have out there.

When I was going to a live spades tournament in Tennessee, I got pulled over by the TN police soon after crossing the border. They had back up arrive and I was forced out of my car. I was not allowed to take my daughter out first. They opened my trunk and started ransacking my car, throwing my clothes and belongings out along the road. My daughter was 3 years old at the time and screaming her . off, absolutely terrified. I tried to go comfort her and they slammed me into the police truck that was there and told me if I approach the car again that I was going to jail. I had to stand there, listening to my baby cry. (Her behavior problems started after this incident, and she's still messed up from it nearly 8 years later.) Finally, they let me leave after forcing me to sign a paper. I was terrified. I got as much of my stuff as I could off the highway. It was dark out and I had trouble seeing everything and I am sure I left something behind. My clothes I packed for the trip were all dirty from being thrown on the ground. I left as quick as I could and pulled into the closest town to regain my composure because I was shaking and crying and couldn't see where I was going. The excuse given on the piece of paper for my treatment was that my high beams were on. I was very sore from the beating and had bruises. I went on to the tournament and told most people there what had happened to me. I took a different way home when I left even though I had not traveled that way previously and didn't know my way.

I have no criminal record whatsoever. Back then I was very skinny and no way posed a threat to anyone. They just pulled me over for no reason and attacked me.

Like I said, I would much rather deal with the mafia than the police. At least the mafia doesn't just randomly target people on the highway like that. They only go after people who they think are a threat to them.

These SWAT teams are even worse than that. When the cops or SWAT comes to your home, you are guilty without a chance to prove yourself innocent in their minds. I don't trust them at all.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Quite frankly you have no idea what you're talking about, SWAT and all upper tier police units are for the most part professional and extremely capable.

I`m allowed an opinion of what I see on and of your Cop shows and its disgusting how many people are treated by law enforcement,to women or men and if that makes it onto TV,I can only imagine what they dont show.



You feel sorry for me? Isn't that cute...


Please show me where I have called and considered you decent,because I dont know you to make that call.I would rather make up my own mind than you telling me you are.Isn`t that the meaning of pretentious?



[edit on 14-3-2007 by gps777]



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 07:03 AM
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Individual experiences aside, as they are 1. unreliable 2. By definition INDIVIDUAL and 3. In no way show trends or general use statistics

This is what I know...

First let me add a disclaimer, I do NOT know about every SWAT team in the country, yet I have worked at 7 Departments (Full and part time), in 3 completely different states for 21 years now...

SWAT

As a rule officers are not allow to even try out for SWAT prior to their 5th year. That is to ensure that we have a good solid picture of the kind of officer we are getting.
Their ethics
Courage
Ability to act in a stressful environment
ETC

The physical requirements for SWAT are rigorous. As such, the testing is extreme at the initial application of an officer and each officer is tested yearly after that. The tests are as difficult as any PFT test I took in the Marines. (Except the STA test)

The use of weapons is also tested but.....

6 times a year and the accuracy and speed requirements are akin to that of a competitive shooter..

A SWAT officer is also held to a MUCH higher standard in their behavior in the department.. Any infractions and the SWAT board gathers and considers appropriate action within the SWAT unit.

SWAT is the best of the best and expected to always perform that way..

Semper



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by Jessicamsa
With my experience with police, I'd trust the mafia before I would a cop.

When I was married to my ex, my now ex sister-in-law was driving home with her 3 small kids. This is a small town. Very small town. She gets pulled over by police and the cop had already called for back up. He waves this gun around in the face of her and her babies telling them not to move. Back up arrives and the cop finally allows her to reach for her registration while two guns are now pointed at her. Why was she pulled over? They told her it was because she had an air freshener hanging from her rear view mirror. The two oldest kids were traumatized from it. The youngest was a young baby. The oldest at the time I think was 5 years old. Very scary criminals we have out there.

I am sorry, but I do not believe that story for a minute. You cannot be serious.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 07:35 AM
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Yeah, jsobecky

I just personally ignored that one...

Kind of like "I was abducted by Elvis and taken to his spaceship as a backup singer."

Semper

ps...

LAUNCH your comment section in your profile, will ya?

Your friends want to say hello..

S



[edit on 3/15/2007 by semperfortis]



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Jessicamsa
When I was married to my ex, my now ex sister-in-law was driving home with her 3 small kids. This is a small town. Very small town. She gets pulled over by police and the cop had already called for back up. He waves this gun around in the face of her and her babies telling them not to move. Back up arrives and the cop finally allows her to reach for her registration while two guns are now pointed at her. Why was she pulled over? They told her it was because she had an air freshener hanging from her rear view mirror. The two oldest kids were traumatized from it. The youngest was a young baby. The oldest at the time I think was 5 years old. Very scary criminals we have out there.

When I was going to a live spades tournament in Tennessee, I got pulled over by the TN police soon after crossing the border. They had back up arrive and I was forced out of my car. I was not allowed to take my daughter out first. They opened my trunk and started ransacking my car, throwing my clothes and belongings out along the road. My daughter was 3 years old at the time and screaming her . off, absolutely terrified. I tried to go comfort her and they slammed me into the police truck that was there and told me if I approach the car again that I was going to jail. I had to stand there, listening to my baby cry. (Her behavior problems started after this incident, and she's still messed up from it nearly 8 years later.) Finally, they let me leave after forcing me to sign a paper. I was terrified. I got as much of my stuff as I could off the highway. It was dark out and I had trouble seeing everything and I am sure I left something behind. My clothes I packed for the trip were all dirty from being thrown on the ground. I left as quick as I could and pulled into the closest town to regain my composure because I was shaking and crying and couldn't see where I was going. The excuse given on the piece of paper for my treatment was that my high beams were on. I was very sore from the beating and had bruises. I went on to the tournament and told most people there what had happened to me. I took a different way home when I left even though I had not traveled that way previously and didn't know my way.


I don't beleive this for one moment. Had this really happened it would have hit the news.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
When I was married to my ex, my now ex sister-in-law was driving home with her 3 small kids. This is a small town. Very small town. She gets pulled over by police and the cop had already called for back up. He waves this gun around in the face of her and her babies telling them not to move. Back up arrives and the cop finally allows her to reach for her registration while two guns are now pointed at her. Why was she pulled over? They told her it was because she had an air freshener hanging from her rear view mirror. The two oldest kids were traumatized from it. The youngest was a young baby. The oldest at the time I think was 5 years old. Very scary criminals we have out there.

When I was going to a live spades tournament in Tennessee, I got pulled over by the TN police soon after crossing the border. They had back up arrive and I was forced out of my car. I was not allowed to take my daughter out first. They opened my trunk and started ransacking my car, throwing my clothes and belongings out along the road. My daughter was 3 years old at the time and screaming her . off, absolutely terrified. I tried to go comfort her and they slammed me into the police truck that was there and told me if I approach the car again that I was going to jail. I had to stand there, listening to my baby cry. (Her behavior problems started after this incident, and she's still messed up from it nearly 8 years later.) Finally, they let me leave after forcing me to sign a paper. I was terrified. I got as much of my stuff as I could off the highway. It was dark out and I had trouble seeing everything and I am sure I left something behind. My clothes I packed for the trip were all dirty from being thrown on the ground. I left as quick as I could and pulled into the closest town to regain my composure because I was shaking and crying and couldn't see where I was going. The excuse given on the piece of paper for my treatment was that my high beams were on. I was very sore from the beating and had bruises. I went on to the tournament and told most people there what had happened to me. I took a different way home when I left even though I had not traveled that way previously and didn't know my way.


I don't beleive this for one moment. Had this really happened it would have hit the news.


And why would it have it the news? Not everyone is a news monger looking for media attention. Happened in October 1999. I told people at the spades tournament and my father. Why would the media have ever heard about it?



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