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Two Strains of H5N1?

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posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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See the following article:

news.bbc.co.uk...

double barreled nightmare!




posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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There are about 6 strains talked about.

FYI - the H5N1 found in Scotland in 1959 and used in experiments is called "chicken/Scotland/1959."

The none popping up in China is called "Asian" H5N1 - the one in Vietnam is different again, and the one in Indonesia may be...


H5N1 is around the world - and each location has a different endemic strain.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 01:03 PM
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DOH!

Thanks Soficrow, and I was getting worried about only 2, when apparently there could be 6, as you put it, variations.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by w1kdtr1p

Thanks Soficrow, and I was getting worried about only 2, when apparently there could be 6, as you put it, variations.



Probably many, many more.

Most flocks/bird populations have a specific strain, and most geographic locations also have a specific strain in the water and soil.

Some mutations likely have jumped right out of the H5N1 category - and many may have hybridized with other microbes. These are the ones that I'm most curious about.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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Currently there are 6 different strains of the H5N1. 3 of which are classified as X strains as they are still under research. ALthough there have been unsubstaniated reports that there are 10 different strains.

H5N1 R12 - spread amongst poultry and can infect humans but with minor complications and can be treated with medicine


H5N1 RW4 - This is discovered in 2004 and 2005. Human can be infected by in from poultry, and can be fatal to human if not handled properly

H5N1 RK7 - this is the most powerful strain found so far. This can be transmitted from poultry to human and from human to human


And the X classes:

H5N1 X1, H5N1 X2 & H5N1 X3



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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THANKS DDay.


My info dates back to July 2005.

Google translation from Chinese:

Translation: China's Qinghai H5N1 avian flu internal classification information (Boxun July 16, 2005)
OR Go to
216.239.39.104.../language_tools
/a3z6n



At present known divides into seven big kinds about 致命性 the birds and beasts flu virus: H5N1 is the host, other are besides H5N1 the variation but

1, H5N1

This is the virus which everybody already knew, basically only disseminates in the domesticated fowl, birds and beasts and so on chicken, duck, bird, did not infect the person in particular, did not pose the threat to the person

2, H5N17B

This is in July, 2004 the virus which discovers in Hunan, the characteristic is also is disseminates in the domesticated fowl, is dissemination domesticated fowl itself which is special is virus's carry, but itself does not arise moreover does not have any infection symptom, only is may disseminate the virus. The domesticated fowl which infects also is the similar symptom, this kind of virus at present only in the chicken, the duck middle dissemination, after the domesticated fowl infection turns viral carry, but does not manifest suddenly. But edible domesticated fowl's animal or the humanity which infects can appear the allergy, the immunity reduces, easily the flu, the physique drops, arise suddenly cardic muscle convulsion and so on. The domesticated fowl food quantity which infects can be very big, but the weight gain are less, this virus completely through contact dissemination.

3, H5N19A

This is in November, 2004 the Shantou area virus, the contact infection, not too greatly distinguishes with H5N1, but infects this virus domesticated fowl's excrement is very special, because Chinese partial area excrement and so on use chicken, duck, pig pours into the fish pond, therefore, is had by this kind of viral influence fish the very strong aggressivity, and has the certain toxicity, the fish bone can change softly, the reason is unclear, this conclusion obtains by the laboratory.

4, H5N1L33

This is the H5N1 variety which in 2004 discovers, its characteristic is uses present the guard vaccine to its is invalid, radically is unable to kill, the basic reason which alone lists is its all symptoms and H5N1 is completely same, biggest is not different, is does not have any birds and beasts flu medicine to have the guard to this virus, moreover this virus has the very strong activeness, even may parasite under the certain temperature in under the humidity permission condition in the insect body, but the at present does not have this kind of viral infection for humanity's any report, at present only has one kind to this kind of virus's solution way, Is burns down.

5, H5N1R12

This is 2004 early times in Xinjiang, places discovery the such as Guangdong Zhanjiang new virus, its characteristic is the virus in the domesticated fowl interior dissemination, moreover may infect gives the humanity, but the person infects the symptom merely is the mild cold symptom, the domesticated fowl and the humanity cannot be fatal, may use the medicine treats. Uses R series classification, R expresses red, namely expresses this virus may infect gives the humanity.

6, H5N1RW4

This is the this year new virus, this is 2004, in 2005 on the discovery virus, has the domesticated fowl infects gives the humanity, does not treat when may cause the humanity death, the person which infects is had mildly may prevent has the infection, this virus has the serious lethality to the domesticated fowl, is infected the domesticated fowl certainly can die, ambush time from 2 days to 60 days between. In the viral carry egg also can carry continues the variation has the immunity ability and differently to the H5N1RW4 new virus, at present uses the birds and beasts beasts medicine for its is invalid, only can use the small dosage the humanity uses same viral medicine.

7, H5N1RK7

The sampling is Qinghai, this is in the present known birds and beasts flu the might biggest one kind, compared with is he which is special is by the birds and beasts class infection for the humanity and between the humanity disseminates, compared with is the person which is special which infects is been unable to return again the infection birds and beasts class, speaks its might big reason is his diagnosis unusual complex, moreover is not suitably discovered, the ambush time is shorter, the death reason completely is because the symptom question diagnosis fault creates the litigant dies.

At present still at studies by no means classifies the naming variation H5N1 also has 3 kinds. Temporarily calls X unknown series

8, H5N1X1

In 2004 the sampling, discovers by the human body flu virus in, may infect the birds and beasts class.

9, H5N1X2

The Qinghai sampling, continues 变异性 the virus, the H5N1RW4 variety, the existing medicine is lower to its function.

10, H5N1X3

Qinghai, Hunan, the Ningxia sampling, infects H5N1RK7 person oneself also has other infectious disease, causes to appear the newborn virus, may between the birds and beasts class humanity and in two between overlapping infections virus

These three kind of virus' material does not have, at present the Chinese official strict blockade virus in fact is these three kinds with H5N1RW4, H5N1RK7, may analyze according to the degree, this three kinds also belong to R series.


The H5N1 series variety virus to humanity's infection in fact unusual obvious, in particular in to its diagnosis in, can have the very big error, at present in the mainland infection virus, are more according to the situation overlapping infection, namely the viral variation speed is quicker, the usual one generation of viral variation became the new virus, the gene 再组合 time already drops from 2003 7 months to 4 months, moreover acted according to local the situation, the variation situation is not also same. _ (abundant news freely sends manuscript area sends manuscript) (abundant news boxun.com)






[edit on 21-3-2006 by soficrow]



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by DDay

H5N1 RK7 - this is the most powerful strain found so far. This can be transmitted from poultry to human and from human to human



If this is the most powerful, why is this one not the center of attention? Is it no longer prevalent in poultry or humans?

Wouldn't this be exactly the same as what they are afraid of happening with the latest strains of the virus?

My thoughts are, if this is very similar to what may happen to the current strain, wouldn't the fallout from the above mentioned strain already have occurred with fatalities worldwide.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by DDay

H5N1 RK7 - this is the most powerful strain found so far. This can be transmitted from poultry to human and from human to human



If this is the most powerful, why is this one not the center of attention? Is it no longer prevalent in poultry or humans?

Wouldn't this be exactly the same as what they are afraid of happening with the latest strains of the virus?

My thoughts are, if this is very similar to what may happen to the current strain, wouldn't the fallout from the above mentioned strain already have occurred with fatalities worldwide.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 09:02 AM
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If this is the most powerful, why is this one not the center of attention? Is it no longer prevalent in poultry or humans?


Ok I am not proclaiming I have all the answers here but when a strain is "pure" in it's natural state it tends to kill every host it encounters. This is not the intent of the virus. It's natural evolution is to multiply. If it kills everything in it's path it eventually becomes obsolete itself.

The other strains mentioned are in circulation as we speak. They are in the process of finding the right vectors to sustain it's evolution. This is the one we focus on in my opinion because although the strains are still lethal they have a better chance of gaining a foothold in the population thereby creating a pandemic.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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On that note, I found an article that supports the 2 distinct strains that were mentioned originally. Although there are many out there 2 are most lethal to humans.

The H5N1 virus responsible for the current virulent strain of bird flu has evolved into two genetically distinct strains, US scientists have confirmed
Back in 2003 we only had one genetically distinct population of H5N1 with the potential to cause a human pandemic. Now we have two

Prior to 2005 every known human case of bird flu had been caused by a particular subtype of the H5N1 virus, which infected people in Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand.

But the latest analysis by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention identified a genetically distinct variant which appears to have emerged last year, infecting people in Indonesia.


I obvioulsly won't quote the entire article but this makes it that much harder to create a vaccine because they won't know which strain it is until it hits.

Link
medpundit.blogspot.com...



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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Just to be clear, all h5n1 types of flues aren't, as far as I understand it, exclusively related to each other. h5n1 is a classification of a segment of the virus, there are h5n1, h2n1, etc etc, they aren't, necessarily, related to each other. Unless I am mistaken and someone can correct me.

Here what we have is that there has been evolution within the big, recent, scary avian h5n1 population, into two strains that are, for the researchers cited in the article, genetically different enough to be called different strains of one another.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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My question becomes is this truely a new strain? Or has it been there all along, and the researchers just found it because they have been concentraing on the h5n1.

Is the new strain created by scientists to become a time bomb for a panedemic? Meaning that the strain is being passed from host to host either by birds and/or humans. They will lay in a dormat state for a preprogramed period of time. Then once it reaches that time, then the panedimic happens. The problem is that people would have already been infected. The government could claim not enough vacanine (spelling), and the virus helps them in their depopulation plan.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Just to be clear, all h5n1 types of flues aren't, as far as I understand it, exclusively related to each other. h5n1 is a classification of a segment of the virus, there are h5n1, h2n1, etc etc, they aren't, necessarily, related to each other. Unless I am mistaken and someone can correct me.




Nygdan sorry - on way out door - but here's the quick answer:



...Influenza viruses are separated into strains, which are labelled according to the particular versions of two proteins that they carry - haemagluttinin (H) and neuraminidase (N). ...These strains are then subdivided into genetic groups called genotypes, and some genotypes can be separated further into smaller units called clades.

Bird flu mutation 'adds to threat of human pandemic'







Here what we have is that there has been evolution within the big, recent, scary avian h5n1 population, into two strains that are, for the researchers cited in the article, genetically different enough to be called different strains of one another.



Nah. Here we have watcha call sloppy reporting.



See above - re 10 known genotypes of H5N1.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Just to be clear, all h5n1 types of flues aren't, as far as I understand it, exclusively related to each other. h5n1 is a classification of a segment of the virus, there are h5n1, h2n1, etc etc, they aren't, necessarily, related to each other. Unless I am mistaken and someone can correct me.

Here what we have is that there has been evolution within the big, recent, scary avian h5n1 population, into two strains that are, for the researchers cited in the article, genetically different enough to be called different strains of one another.




Good question...the answer is that H5N1 has different variants or "Chade" now. Like all viri, they change until they can exist within their chosen variation.

The 2004 H5N1 cases are from Vietnam with some from Thailand (Chade #1), and the case fatality rate was over 70%. This variant has now becone either less virulent, or treatment was better.

Chade # 2 is the Qinghai Lake H5N1 strain (China) from 7/2005 and all the numbers changed.

There are many H5N1 variants out there, and maybe one or the other or a couple could become "pandemic" and really create a nightmare senario for the world. This is why all labs should make their sequence data public so that we can track and maybe stop the greatest danger our civilization has ever seen.



posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 09:24 AM
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Thanks gman.


FYI - it's "clade" not "chade." Important typo that.


Here's a quick glossary:

Strain:

www.biology-text.com...
Drug Discovery

Genotype:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.biology-text.com...

Clade:

en.wikipedia.org...
tolweb.org...
www.biology-text.com...


So with H5N1:

The strain is H5N1.

The different genotypes include H5N1 7B, H5N1 9A, H5N1 L33, H5N1 R12, H5N1 RW4, H5N1 RK7, and H5N1 X1.


The clades in the "X" series include 1, 2, and 3, for example.


My questions: Are R, RW, and RK different genotypes, with 12, 4 and 7 describing the clade? Or is "R" the genotype with "12," "W4" and "K7" being the clades?


??? Anyone?


.



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
See above - re 10 known genotypes of H5N1.

Ah. Thanks.

"Back in 2003 we only had one genetically distinct population of H5N1 with the potential to cause a human pandemic. Now we have two."

They might just be using different criteria for what is enough difference to amount to a 'genetically distinct population'.
Whats kinda ironic here too is that we're using biological terminology for a thing that, to many people, isn't even really 'living'.



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan



"Back in 2003 we only had one genetically distinct population of H5N1 with the potential to cause a human pandemic. Now we have two."

They might just be using different criteria for what is enough difference to amount to a 'genetically distinct population'.
Whats kinda ironic here too is that we're using biological terminology for a thing that, to many people, isn't even really 'living'.





Yes, it is.

Also ironic is the fact that only the fatality rate is considered relevant in defining "high pathogenicity" and consequently, "human pandemic."

...The evidence is clear that low level infection produces chronic disease - but " 'mild' pathogenicity" is not considered important enough to merit attention and intervention.




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