Well of course it isn't in a politicians best interest to support efforts to restrict gift and donations from interest groups..

but getting the support of the constituents (for votes) is...
we have to connect the two issues...

Vote for reform, or take another job!

Marg, dont give up... I can tell you see this as hopeless...
it isn't by a long shot...

people can make the difference...

these two authors felt the whole worlds opinion was against them also...
and surprise, only the media is.... the internet is abuzz with it, and that is the core of grass roots change...
I applaud their bold efforts...

Heart And Soul

[Majic decloaks.]

I'm trying not to butt in too much, but I am compelled to say that I am thrilled by the quality of the discussion taking place in this thread.

Investigation and deliberation of controversial, outside-the-mainstream issues is the heart and soul of what ATS is about.

This is a very important issue that deserves in-depth scrutiny, no matter how one might feel about Middle Eastern politics.

My heartfelt thanks to the contributors in this thread for showing us how it's done.

Please keep up the excellent work and stimulating discussion, and keep digging!

[Cloaking device engaged.]

Good point...

yes, the people being scared/intimidated into silence regarding this, doesn't help the cause of proving it wrong...

I'm trying not to butt in too much, but I am compelled to say that I am thrilled by the quality of the discussion taking place in this thread.

I had not seen any. The opposition has had nothing to say really. Let it drop down and ignore everything. Couldn't give a better endorsement.

Returning to the career politician problem for a moment, I think we all pretty much agree that career politicians are generally bad news for the interests of the average American. The primary reason for that conclusion is that election campaigns cost big bucks and donors dollars are what allow a politician to be elected over and over. Big buck donors expect something for their money and they generally get it, but if politicians were limited to say two terms, then they would be less inclined to sell average voters out in favor of big buck donors. Term limits; therefore, make sense--at least to me. If the rules on campaign contributions were tightened up a bit at the same time then I think the lack of representation by our elected representatives would rapidly go away. Needless to say, the influence of the various lobbying groups would also diminish.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

I don't believe that Israel thinks it "owns" American foreign policy...as was stated earlier, many interest groups try to influence government, and it seems to be how government is "done" these days. It is a major problem.

What concerns me is the potential for unwise foreign policy decisions based on pressure from domestic groups, primarily classified as "Dispensational Fundamentalists", who support Israel because of it's place in their eschatological understanding.

This might not be worrisome, if it were not for the degree to which this doctrine permeates the Christian interest groups who have so much much influence in politics these days.

President Bush, at a question-and-answer session the other morning, was asked if he believed that Israel had an apocalyptic role to play in history, and he completely dodged the question, refusing to either affirm or deny in any way his own beliefs on the subject. If those who hold to that eschatology had no significant political influence, then Bush could have easily denied his belief in that teaching. To have affirmed a belief in it would have raised some obvious questions...

An excellent book on this subject:

"On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend" by Timothy Weber (Baker Academic, 2004).

Weber holds a PhD. from the University of Chicago Divinity School, and is president of Memphis Theological Seminary.

What concerns me is the potential for unwise foreign policy decisions based on pressure from domestic groups, primarily classified as "Dispensational Fundamentalists", who support Israel because of it's place in their eschatological understanding.

The paper also included the Christinan fundies in the Pro-Israel lobby. Its not just Jews, its all the Zionists.

The Lobby also includes prominent Christian evangelicals like Gary Bauer, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, and Pat Robertson, as well as Dick Armey and Tom DeLay, former majority leaders in the House of Representatives. They believe Israel’s rebirth is part of Biblical prophecy, support its expansionist agenda, and think pressuring Israel is contrary to God’s will.67 In addition, the Lobby’s membership includes neoconservative gentiles such as John Bolton, the late Wall Street Journal editor Robert Bartley, former Secretary of Education William Bennett, former U.N. Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and columnist George Will.

Page 15

AIPAC and its allies (including Christian Zionists) have no serious opponents in the lobbying world.

Page 40

Regenmacher, did you notice how subtly the L.A.Times article slipped in as many negative connotations about the study as was possible (and still be thought to be unbiased) before saying read it yourself. By the approach used in the article, the readers will have a generally negative opinion of the article before they ever read a single word. Also notice the generally favorable comments interjected throughout the article about the efforts of the people speaking up for Israel. As I said earlier, they are smart, the're slick and very effective as well as being pervasive.


[edit on 26-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by Malichai
[
The lobby proves the paper right by exerting force agianst the university, and ignoring it in the media.

They might as well have put their spamp of approval on it by doing this.

How can anybody here add anything to that... you said it all man and so succintly too. Those are the facts so try and deny them all you controllers.

Originally posted by Malichai

The paper also included the Christinan fundies in the Pro-Israel lobby. Its not just Jews, its all the Zionists.

The Lobby also includes prominent Christian evangelicals like Gary Bauer, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, and Pat Robertson, as well as Dick Armey and Tom DeLay, former majority leaders in the House of Representatives. They believe Israel’s rebirth is part of Biblical prophecy, support its expansionist agenda, and think pressuring Israel is contrary to God’s will.67 In addition, the Lobby’s membership includes neoconservative gentiles such as John Bolton, the late Wall Street Journal editor Robert Bartley, former Secretary of Education William Bennett, former U.N. Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and columnist George Will.

Page 15

AIPAC and its allies (including Christian Zionists) have no serious opponents in the lobbying world.

Page 40

Most Christians would not have agreed to 911 no matter what. Most Christians are not rich or successful either, so they are not in on the party so to speak yet their numbers are great (the silent majority they are often referred to as by the media).

Originally posted by Astronomer68
Regenmacher, did you notice how subtly the L.A.Times article slipped in as many negative connotations about the study as was possible (and still be thought to be unbiased) before saying read it yourself.
[edit on 26-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

Yeah, Times was rather biased, but as they say in Holllywierd even bad publicity is good. Least he linked it unlike many trash and hack journalists.