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reply posted on 24-3-2006 @ 03:06 PM by LazarusTheLong
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Well of course it isn't in a politicians best interest to support efforts to restrict gift and donations from interest groups..
but getting the support of the constituents (for votes) is...
we have to connect the two issues...
Vote for reform, or take another job!
Marg, dont give up... I can tell you see this as hopeless...
it isn't by a long shot...
people can make the difference...
these two authors felt the whole worlds opinion was against them also...
and surprise, only the media is.... the internet is abuzz with it, and that is the core of grass roots change...
I applaud their bold efforts... 
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reply posted on 24-3-2006 @ 03:26 PM by Malichai
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KSG Seeks Distance from Paper
Yesterday’s issue of The New York Sun reported that an “observer” familiar with Harvard said that the University had received calls from
“pro-Israel donors” concerned about the KSG paper. One of the calls, the source told The Sun, was from Robert Belfer, a former Enron director who
endowed Walt’s professorship when he donated $7.5 million to the Kennedy School’s Center for Science and International Affairs in 1997.
The lobby proves the paper right by exerting force agianst the university, and ignoring it in the media.
They might as well have put their spamp of approval on it by doing this.
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reply posted on 24-3-2006 @ 03:49 PM by Majic
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Heart And Soul
[Majic decloaks.]
I'm trying not to butt in too much, but I am compelled to say that I am thrilled by the quality of the discussion taking place in this thread.
Investigation and deliberation of controversial, outside-the-mainstream issues is the heart and soul of what ATS is about.
This is a very important issue that deserves in-depth scrutiny, no matter how one might feel about Middle Eastern politics.
My heartfelt thanks to the contributors in this thread for showing us how it's done.
Please keep up the excellent work and stimulating discussion, and keep digging! 
[Cloaking device engaged.]
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reply posted on 24-3-2006 @ 03:52 PM by LazarusTheLong
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Good point...
yes, the people being scared/intimidated into silence regarding this, doesn't help the cause of proving it wrong...
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reply posted on 25-3-2006 @ 09:56 AM by Malichai
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I'm trying not to butt in too much, but I am compelled to say that I am thrilled by the quality of the discussion taking place in this thread.
I had not seen any. The opposition has had nothing to say really. Let it drop down and ignore everything. Couldn't give a better endorsement. 
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reply posted on 25-3-2006 @ 11:32 PM by Astronomer68
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Returning to the career politician problem for a moment, I think we all pretty much agree that career politicians are generally bad news for the
interests of the average American. The primary reason for that conclusion is that election campaigns cost big bucks and donors dollars are what allow
a politician to be elected over and over. Big buck donors expect something for their money and they generally get it, but if politicians were limited
to say two terms, then they would be less inclined to sell average voters out in favor of big buck donors. Term limits; therefore, make sense--at
least to me. If the rules on campaign contributions were tightened up a bit at the same time then I think the lack of representation by our elected
representatives would rapidly go away. Needless to say, the influence of the various lobbying groups would also diminish.
[edit on 25-3-2006 by Astronomer68]
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 12:47 AM by goose
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I found this little gem while trying to do some research on PNAC and where the pipelines and permanent bases will be in Iraq. I was not looking for
any of the info I found below but was rather shocked by Sharon's statement. I doubt it received any coverage in the US, at least I have not heard
about it until I uncovered it in searching for the PNAC info.
www.nogw.com...
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about
American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael
-- it was no idle chatter. He was telling the truth. They have gained control through the Federal Reserve System [Updated Link] controlling the banks.
They are also firmly in control in England. Hence the 2 allies will unite to fight a good fight for the greater good of Israel.
Just follow the trail of the money!
The United States has given Israel over 90 billion dollars in foreign aid.
www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> mod edit to use external quote code, please review this link
[edit on 26-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 01:12 AM by Beachcoma
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goose, I tried to verify that quote however a preliminary Google search revealed the quote was repeated throughout anti-semitic and neo-nazi websites.
This made me suspiscious, and then a deeper search revealed this CAMERA article:
 Syndicated Columnist Georgie Anne Geyer Uses Fabricated Sharon Quote
CAMERA conducted extensive Nexis and Internet searches, and found that no mainstream news organization reported as true the fabricated quotation.
The hoax originated with an October 3, 2001 press release from the pro-Hamas group, the Islamic Association for Palestine[...]
According to the IAP press release, the statement was reported on Kol Yisrael. However, CAMERA’s calls to Kol Yisrael confirmed that no such
broadcast occurred.[...] Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
So I'm afraid that quote holds no water.
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 02:54 AM by Regenmacher
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Mearsheimer and Walt's study goes mainstream:
Who's afraid of the 'Israel
Lobby'? - LA Times
It seems silly to deny that a powerful lobby on behalf of Israel exists. The real question is how pernicious it is. Does it, in fact, persuade us to
act counter to our national interest — or is it a positive thing, as publisher Mortimer Zuckerman suggests?
"The allegations of this disproportionate influence of the Jewish community reminds me of the 92-year-old man sued in a paternity suit," Zuckerman
told the New York Sun. "He said he was so proud, he pleaded guilty."
My advice is to judge for yourself. The full article is available at www.lrb.co.uk... . Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
If Bush becomes a unitary president, powerful lobbies will be rendered obsolete. So maybe all this is just water under the bridge to distract us
from the real gambit?
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 03:04 AM by apocalypticon
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I don't believe that Israel thinks it "owns" American foreign policy...as was stated earlier, many interest groups try to influence government, and
it seems to be how government is "done" these days. It is a major problem.
What concerns me is the potential for unwise foreign policy decisions based on pressure from domestic groups, primarily classified as "Dispensational
Fundamentalists", who support Israel because of it's place in their eschatological understanding.
This might not be worrisome, if it were not for the degree to which this doctrine permeates the Christian interest groups who have so much much
influence in politics these days.
President Bush, at a question-and-answer session the other morning, was asked if he believed that Israel had an apocalyptic role to play in history,
and he completely dodged the question, refusing to either affirm or deny in any way his own beliefs on the subject. If those who hold to that
eschatology had no significant political influence, then Bush could have easily denied his belief in that teaching. To have affirmed a belief in it
would have raised some obvious questions...
An excellent book on this subject:
"On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend" by Timothy Weber (Baker Academic, 2004).
Weber holds a PhD. from the University of Chicago Divinity School, and is president of Memphis Theological Seminary.
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 04:34 AM by twitchy
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I found one segment of a four part series that was supposed to run on Fox News after 9-11 that you guys should watch.
www.youtube.com...
This one primarily focuses on Converse Infosys, Amdocs, and Odigo, but just to give you an idea of the power we are talking about, it was pulled off
the air after the first segment of this special aired by different factions of the very lobby that we are discussing here. If any of you guys know
where to complete series, I would like to get my hands on a copy.
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 05:10 AM by Regenmacher
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 09:22 AM by Malichai
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What concerns me is the potential for unwise foreign policy decisions based on pressure from domestic groups, primarily classified as
"Dispensational Fundamentalists", who support Israel because of it's place in their eschatological understanding.
The paper also included the Christinan fundies in the Pro-Israel lobby. Its not just Jews, its all the Zionists.
The Lobby also includes prominent Christian evangelicals like Gary Bauer, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, and Pat Robertson, as well as Dick Armey
and Tom DeLay, former majority leaders in the House of Representatives. They believe Israel’s rebirth is part of Biblical prophecy, support its
expansionist agenda, and think pressuring Israel is contrary to God’s will.67 In addition, the Lobby’s membership includes neoconservative
gentiles such as John Bolton, the late Wall Street Journal editor Robert Bartley, former Secretary of Education William Bennett, former U.N.
Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and columnist George Will.
Page 15
AIPAC and its allies (including Christian Zionists) have no serious opponents in the lobbying world.
Page 40
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 02:28 PM by twitchy
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Thank you so much for posting those links, I have been trying to find the complete series for a long time now. If you guys have any doubt of the power
and the extent of the zionist factions in this country, those videos are a great place to start learning. Can you imagine having the influence to have
something that has already been produced and one segment already aired pulled from Fox News? That's just the tip of the iceberg, not including the
other media companies they own outright, the federal reserve, freemasonry, the ADL, the list really does go on and on and on.
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 10:10 PM by Astronomer68
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Regenmacher, did you notice how subtly the L.A.Times article slipped in as many negative connotations about the study as was possible (and still be
thought to be unbiased) before saying read it yourself. By the approach used in the article, the readers will have a generally negative opinion of
the article before they ever read a single word. Also notice the generally favorable comments interjected throughout the article about the efforts of
the people speaking up for Israel. As I said earlier, they are smart, the're slick and very effective as well as being pervasive.
[edit on 26-3-2006 by Astronomer68]
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 10:34 PM by denythestatusquo
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Originally posted by Malichai
[
The lobby proves the paper right by exerting force agianst the university, and ignoring it in the media.
They might as well have put their spamp of approval on it by doing this.
How can anybody here add anything to that... you said it all man and so succintly too. Those are the facts so try and deny them all you controllers.
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reply posted on 26-3-2006 @ 10:48 PM by denythestatusquo
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Originally posted by Malichai
The paper also included the Christinan fundies in the Pro-Israel lobby. Its not just Jews, its all the Zionists.
The Lobby also includes prominent Christian evangelicals like Gary Bauer, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, and Pat Robertson, as well as Dick Armey
and Tom DeLay, former majority leaders in the House of Representatives. They believe Israel’s rebirth is part of Biblical prophecy, support its
expansionist agenda, and think pressuring Israel is contrary to God’s will.67 In addition, the Lobby’s membership includes neoconservative
gentiles such as John Bolton, the late Wall Street Journal editor Robert Bartley, former Secretary of Education William Bennett, former U.N.
Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and columnist George Will.
Page 15
AIPAC and its allies (including Christian Zionists) have no serious opponents in the lobbying world.
Page 40
Most Christians would not have agreed to 911 no matter what. Most Christians are not rich or successful either, so they are not in on the party so to
speak yet their numbers are great (the silent majority they are often referred to as by the media).
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reply posted on 27-3-2006 @ 12:38 AM by Regenmacher
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Originally posted by Astronomer68
Regenmacher, did you notice how subtly the L.A.Times article slipped in as many negative connotations about the study as was possible (and still be
thought to be unbiased) before saying read it yourself.
[edit on 26-3-2006 by Astronomer68]
Yeah, Times was rather biased, but as they say in Holllywierd even bad publicity is good. Least he linked it unlike many trash and hack journalists.
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reply posted on 27-3-2006 @ 03:45 AM by Beachcoma
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reply posted on 27-3-2006 @ 03:58 AM by twitchy
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I just saw this in the news today...
Source
Suppression of witness names
underlines battle in AIPAC case
By Ron Kampeas and Matthew E. Berger
March 15, 2006
WASHINGTON, March 15 (JTA) – Condoleezza Rice, Stephen Hadley, Anthony Zinni: For a few hours, the list of subpoenaed witnesses on the docket in the
classified information case against two former staffers of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee read like a Who’s Who of U.S. foreign
policy.
And that probably was precisely the point for defendants eager to prove that trading inside information with the most senior government officials was
par for the lobbyists’ course. Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Like a 'who's who of American Foriegn Policy' whose 'par for the course' is 'insider' information at levels as high as Condoleezza Rice?
Source
AIPAC charges may be unconstitutional
By NATHAN GUTTMAN
ALEXANDRIA, VA
The prosecution in the case of two former AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) lobbyists accused of communicating classified information
will have to deal with the constitutional aspects of the case and provide the court with a detailed brief on the issue....
The Israelis mentioned in the case all have diplomatic immunity and cannot be forced by either side to testify or to give depositions.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Edit:
Some amazing statistics here... www.ifamericansknew.org...
[edit on 27-3-2006 by twitchy]
[edit on 27-3-2006 by twitchy]
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