It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

evil masons???

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 11:22 PM
link   
i have been reeading alot of posts here about how evil masons are and whatnot....one of my best friends was a mason & a good man at that i cringe at the thought that he would have been involved in somthing EVIL. do people post negitive things about masons because they are guessing or because they are not members and have been denied acceptance and talk smack or is masonry as dark as some say??? please dont take this post offensivly im just tring to grasp somthing i dont understand.




posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 11:33 PM
link   
The reason that mostly negative things are posted here about Freemasons is that this is a conspiracy website. Freemasons have historically been perceived as contributing to the advent of the "New World Order" amongst other theories.

The positive elements of Freemasonry (fundraising, personal development etc) are not exactly exciting in that regard, nor are they appropriate fodder for conspiracy theorists.

Welcome to the forum.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 12:28 AM
link   
Masonry is not evil man, many people think it is because we have secrets. Mostly just ways to tell if someone is really a mason or not. But because we are secretive they think that must be bad. and if it's bad it must be evil, evil means devil and drinking blood from the skulls of babies....sounds far out there doesnt it? Well trust me all of those things have been said of masons. But we are not evil at all. not in the least. and defenatly no blood or babies or devils.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 12:57 AM
link   
Many people are conspiracy buffs and some don't even know what they are talking about...

I happen to be "blood related" To the first president George Washington, and he was a 33rd degree mason... I hear that 1, 2, 3, degree masons don't know what goes on in the higher degrees..

A mason is sworn to keep his secret even if he has to give false testimonies. If he leaks out the secret, he is cut from the left ear all the way to the right....

I met a mason. He was really nice, and a majority of them are extremely kind. He told me that the G stands for geometry and God...

The only thing I don't understand is why they have the "goat".



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 03:17 AM
link   
cajundj, your friend was more than likely a good man. Freemasons gave us America and pure Freemasony is spiritual as well as a fraternity, despite what many Masons will try and tell you and can ONLY be a force for good. However, that doesn't mean that there has never been any proven Conspiracies involving Freemasons, or involving the craft/lodge in the past.

If there was no truth at all regarding any of the past Conspiracies, than why did the Freemasonic lodges in Bavaria get shut down in the late 18'th century? Would it have been better to not have shut them down knowing what we do know today about A.W and the Bavarian Illuminati?

Another reason why Freemasonry attracts so much attention - is really, the fault of Freemasons themselves. Allow me to provide a tiny example of what I have noticed while posting here on ATS: Many Masons deny any role in the layout, or symbolism in the streets of Washington DC, yet they do not deny their HUGE role in the forming of America (which is a good thing), or charity and it is situations such like these which I am still wondering about? In the mind of the seeker of truth, it's rather odd that all these Presidents are Masons and the creators of America were mainly Masons and Christians but as for the symbols; the Masons are truly baffled and they have no idea what they mean - even when their ATS Avatars match the pattern in the Streets of DC.

But let's for a moment assume that the Masons are in fact correct and there is no connection to the symbols in Washington DC: then if this be the case why is it that they haven't ant alternatives to offer about WHO DID put the symbols there? Was it aliens, was it the Jesuits who put those symbols there; yet somehow the Masons are totatly in the dark. Yeah, one can sort of understand why there is so much attention on them?

And even more interesting is the inability of certain Masons to admit that, "yes, there are very bad Freemasons, for example...so and so and so and so, etc just like any other"? It's almost as if " how dare anyone say there are any Conspiracies involving Freemasons!" The Jesuits, no problem, let's talk about that evil church ok... but never talk about Freemasons, right?


Masons tend to at times. be the innocent victims of their own aloofness.


[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 09:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by whitelightwolf

I happen to be "blood related" To the first president George Washington, and he was a 33rd degree mason... I hear that 1, 2, 3, degree masons don't know what goes on in the higher degrees..


Some do, some don't. Masonic authors have written all about the "higher degrees" for a few hundred years; anyone curious about them only has to visit the library. For the Scottish Rite degrees, I recommend "A Bridge To Light" by Dr. Rex Hutchens, 33°, G.'.C.'. Dr. Hutchens' book goes into great detail for each degree from the 4th to the 32nd, explaining the ceremony, symbols, regalia, etc., for each degree.

Of course, if one is already a Third Degree Master Mason, another way to find out "what goes on the higher degrees" would simply be to apply for them.


A mason is sworn to keep his secret even if he has to give false testimonies. If he leaks out the secret, he is cut from the left ear all the way to the right....


Neither is true. A Mason is sworn to keep two different types of secrets:

1. The modes of recognition, which are revealed to the candidate in each degree. These consist of traditional passwords, handshakes, signals, etc., and date from the middle ages.

2. The confidences of a worthy brother. If a worthy Mason tells us something in confidence, we are vowed to keep his confidence.

Nowhere ever in the history of the world has a Mason sworn to give a false testimony. Since Truth is one of the Four Cardinal Virtues of Masonry, giving a false testimony would be unmasonic. If someone asks us something that is not their business, we do not lie to them, we just tell them it's none of their business.

Lastly, the symbolic penalties are just that: symbolic. Many Grand Lodges, including the UGLE, have completely eliminated them from the ritual. All this scandalous talk about "Masonic penalties" from the anti-Masons becomes absurd when one realizes that many Masons have never even taken those obligations which even mention them.

For those who have, they are aware that such penalties are symbolic. The literal penalty for violation of Masonic vows are censure, suspension, or expulsion, depending on the gravity of the offense.




The only thing I don't understand is why they have the "goat".


lol, Conspiracy Nut and I were chatting about this recently. According to Mackey, it was the belief among Puritans in 17th century England that in Masonic initiation, the devil appeared in the form of a goat, which the candidate was then required to ride around the Lodge room. Also according to Mackey, some Masons considered this story funny, and adopted it as a joke, which still persists.

However, the website for the Grand Lodge of the Elks claim that they invented the Lodge goat, also as a goat. If this is true, it would seem that some Elks who were also Masons just carried it into Masonry from Elkdom.

In both cases, goats were never a part of initiation in any Masonic or Elk Lodge. Whether it's derived from Puritan superstition or a small mechanical bull that the Elks used to use, today it's just a joke among Lodge members.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 09:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by markusjharper


But let's for a moment assume that the Masons are in fact correct and there is no connection to the symbols in Washington DC: then if this be the case why is it that they haven't ant alternatives to offer about WHO DID put the symbols there? Was it aliens, was it the Jesuits who put those symbols there; yet somehow the Masons are totatly in the dark. Yeah, one can sort of understand why there is so much attention on them?


Perhaps the reason that we don't respond to the 5 million posts about the D.C. layout is that at least some of us are bored to death with the topic, as a new thread appears on it practically every day. Personally, I don't care if the streets look like a pentagram or a U.F.O. or a kangaroo or whatever, as it has no bearing on my life at all.

However, if you'd like to read a Masonic article on the subject, you may do so here.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 02:30 PM
link   
Your article speaks of a secret satanic plot. ML, do you not yet understand? What does a secret satanic plot have to do with the evidence of Masonic symbolism in the streets of Washington DC? Do you not see that the article you posted is not only insulting to the person in search of truth, but it also assumes that Masonic symbolism is:

a) a Bad thing
b) That I really care to know about a so-called Satanic Conspiracy

Until you start understanding what I am trying to tell you about this, I promise you shall never see peace of these conspiracies. Take it or leave it, the choice is only Masons.

[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 04:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by markusjharper
Your article speaks of a secret satanic plot.


Did you actually read the article? It is quite clear in it that there isn't any plot, and the vast majority of people involved in the street scheme were neither Masons nor occultists.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 06:17 PM
link   
Yes, I did read the article but it does NOT address the REAL issue.

Your weblink added the idea of A SATANIC PLOT to manufacture the illusion that people who claim that there is a connection to the symbols in the streets of Washingtion DC, and Freemaosnry are 'somehow' claiming something Satanic.

Did I say anything about any plot - good or bad?
Did I imply "a connection" is something evil...?

Twighlight-write will not work on me, ML.


[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 07:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by markusjharper
And even more interesting is the inability of certain Masons to admit that, "yes, there are very bad Freemasons, for example...so and so and so and so, etc just like any other"? It's almost as if " how dare anyone say there are any Conspiracies involving Freemasons!" The Jesuits, no problem, let's talk about that evil church ok... but never talk about Freemasons, right?


Masons tend to at times. be the innocent victims of their own aloofness.


[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]


Nice Straw Man argument. None of the ATS Masonic brethren responds that way at all, and you're the only person here who consistently brings up the Jesuits. We respond with skepticism when people make wild claims about our organisation drugging their dog, or blowing up their toilet, but that seems fairly appropriate, don't you think? Or maybe you simply believe anything you hear that supports your particular view... like The Protocols


Masons are more aware than most people about the darker moments in the fraternity's history (P2, Morgan etc), so as to guard against future impropriety by men who would be Masons but do not adhere to the principles laid down by the tenets of Freemasonry.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 08:08 PM
link   
Are you seeing this cajundj? If I were you friend, I'd be forgetting about finding much truth from any of these so-called Mason posters here on ATS. Besides, how do you know they are True Masons? They even managed to get into bed with them, certain Mod's and Admins but it's quite obvious they are totally engulfed with self-admiration and should hardly speak. Real Masons would not waste much time at this place - and there are few very REAL Masons around to learn anything from.

Roark said:

Or maybe you simply believe anything you hear that supports your particular view... like The Protocols


Is this not a very sarcastic and lazy response from a noob Mason?

Roark said:

"Masons are more aware than most people about the darker moments in the fraternity's history (P2, Morgan etc),..."


Notice cajundj. how Masons hate to admit that Masonic Lodges were closed down before in a PROVEN CONSPIRACY in the 1770's.

Roark (a newbie Mason), has the nerve to bring up the Morgan incident, for use as a blanket attempt to try and imply that ALL past Conspiracies involving Freemasons, are to be considered nothing more than...oh another Morgan incident.

No responsibilty - no accountability and rather than simply admit that Masons HAVE been involved in their fair share of Conspiracies in the past, they act in this typical fashion. Do you see cajundj, why there is a huge spotlight on Masons - and why they shall never find an escape until they stop assuming us all fools?

[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:34 PM
link   
Is "noob" supposed to be an attempt to belittle me? I'd say it's the quality, not quantity, of time spent that really matters. I mean, after all your years of study as a venerable scholar, you still can't distinguish between a genuine manifesto and an anti-Semitic hoax.

Oh, and I wasn't being sarcastic in my earlier post. I'm genuinely astounded that you tried to use the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in a scholarly context.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by Roark
Is "noob" supposed to be an attempt to belittle me? I'd say it's the quality, not quantity, of time spent that really matters. I mean, after all your years of study as a venerable scholar, you still can't distinguish between a genuine manifesto and an anti-Semitic hoax.


Please stay on topic Roark and answer me this: don't bring up any other garbage, don't bring up UGLE just answer me, if you can handle it:

Were any Masonic Lodges closed down in a past PROVEN CONSPIRACY, yes or no?

Have actual Freemasons been involved in any Conspiracies in the past, yes or no?

I await your response.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by markusjharper
They even managed to get into bed with them, certain Mod's and Admins
[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]


I guess there's no possibility that those warnings next to your name mean that YOU could have been in error?

No... you're right. It's ALL a conspiracy against you. We've got the mods on our payroll, and our vast centrally-controlled armies are ready to ride out under our 33rd degree commanders against the Jesuits and the Knights of Columbus in a gargantuan battle... in your head.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by markusjharper
Were any Masonic Lodges closed down in a past PROVEN CONSPIRACY, yes or no?


This is exactly what happened with P2. I'm still not sure why you got angry with me mentioning it.


Originally posted by markusjharper
Have actual Freemasons been involved in any Conspiracies in the past, yes or no?


This is a ridiculously broad question, and is obviously loaded. Why don't you tell me, coz you've obviously got someone in mind. How about, as a novelty, you provide some basis for what you're about to claim. Wouldn't that be nice? Even the mods are begging you to do so.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:54 PM
link   
I smell fear Roark....Again YOU avoid answering 2 very simple questions...what callious disregard, eh cajundj? I wouldn't expect much help from these so-called Mason posters on ATS.

Just in case Roark missed it the first time, I repeat my request to him:


Please stay on topic Roark and answer me this: don't bring up any other garbage, don't bring up UGLE just answer me, if you can handle it:

Were any Masonic Lodges closed down in a past PROVEN CONSPIRACY, yes or no?

Have actual Freemasons been involved in any Conspiracies in the past, yes or no?

I await your response.


Still waiting...Roark?



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 11:15 PM
link   
If you're gonna have a hissy fit every time somebody fails to provide the particular answer you'd like, you're in for a rough time.

This is the height of hypocrisy too, as you have consistently failed to respond to rebuttals of your own unsubstantiated hyperbole, choosing instead to construct Straw Man arguments in lieu of proven facts and solid research.



Were any Masonic Lodges closed down in a past PROVEN CONSPIRACY, yes or no?


As I've tried to say...multiple times: Yeah, the P2 lodge. They were found to have engaged in conspiratorial, un-Masonlike behaviour, and the lodge was declared irregular and dissolved.



Have actual Freemasons been involved in any Conspiracies in the past, yes or no?


Yes. Off the top of my head: Simon Bolivar. Conspiracy is a very broad term, Markus. I'm not dodging anything here. You just need to make your point, and terminology, clearer.

In the context of this board's interests in "conspiracy", I have yet to be presented with any kind of solid evidence that Freemasonry is involved in some kind of shadowy New World Order, and so my answer in that regard is no. Being a decentralised system of independent Grand Lodges, this would be nigh on impossible. Anyone who knows the structure of world Freemasonry understands this and yet you, who claim to have so much learning under your belt, cannot grasp it.



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 11:29 PM
link   

Yes. Off the top of my head: Simon Bolivar. Conspiracy is a very broad term, Markus. I'm not dodging anything here. You just need to make your point, and terminology, clearer.


That's one man, Roark. Anymore off the Top of your head? How come I can pop out many more at the top of my head? Tell me, what kind of Masons were these men:


Amschel Rothschild (Daddy)

Karl Rothschild

James Meyer Rothschild was Karl’s brother was also a 33 degree Mason in the Scottish Rite in Paris.

Nathan Meyer Rothschild was a 33 degree Mason and he was a member of the Lodge of Emulation

Solomon Meir Rothschild was a 33 degree Jewish Freemason

Baron de Rothschild was another French 33 degree Jewish Freemason.

Lionel de Rothschild still another French 33 degree Jewish Freemason

Max Rothschild a Freemason (Lodge No. 11, Munich, Germany)

Mazzini the founder of the Italian mafia was also a 33 degree Freemason

Karl Marx was also a 33 degree Freemason


So let's be clear here: a noob Mason has the nerve to come and post on ATS and tries to tell us that it's all in our head. Sure...Rothschild can't possibly be a REAL Mason, right?


[edit on 21-3-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 11:43 PM
link   
There is no "us" when you're involved, Markus. You're a lone voice whistling in the graveyard of ignorance. You come onto the forum and try to tie EVERYTHING in with your bizarre Rothschild/Ahriman/Bacon diatribe, even when the subject matter has nothing to do with them.

Just because you say that Hitler collaborated with Freemasons in the Holocaust, it doesn't mean that he did.

Just because you claim that someone is a 33 degree Mason, it doesn't mean that they are.

Just because you say that I'm a noob, doesn't mean that your arguments stand.

You're an obfuscator, plain and simple.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join