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Open Your EYES People Please!

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posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:05 PM
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Well, I did'nt think I'd get it tottaly right, I don't study biblical stuff.



Ok, that's odd, on apocalypticon post it says I've edited it, which of course I technically can't, weird glitch.




posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by Produkt
If he's already in the world way back when John wrote his gospel, then wth are we doing saying we're waiting for the antichrist?


There have been many antichrists throughout history, from political leaders to pastors, teachers etc. The one we refer to as THE "Antichrist" will be the single one global dictator that the elite/illuminati place in authority over 10 nations (quite possibly organised by the United Nations after WWIII). According to the prophecies, this arrangement will only last one hour and the dictator will then get even more power hungry and steal control from 7 of the nations using military force and have to wipe out three completely because of lack of cooperation (likely nuclear?).

This dictator will the the very one that you've stated earlier that hasn't shown up yet.

We are all born with the spirit of "antichrist"/sin. Without true belief in Jesus Christ, you'll subconsciously do the opposite(anti) of the will of God(Jehovah), way of his son to better state it I guess as the will of God will be done and unaffected by anyone no matter how hard they try.

It's quite amazing how strong the will of sin is. Having eternal life is the most simple thing that ever was and ever will be. Yet people go miles out of their way just to go against it.

[edit on 19-3-2006 by WiseSheep]



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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Ok, that's odd, on apocalypticon post it says I've edited it, which of course I technically can't, weird glitch.


Sorry eori-komei, my bad...I'm still trying to get the hang of the 'quotes" thing...I screwed up with the amount of your post which I quoted, ie. your editing of that post I quoted from...man, now I'm not only tongue-tied, I'm brain tied...


(I think I may have messed this one up too; time for a trip to Zedd's Handbook).



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep

The one we refer to as THE "Antichrist" will be the single one global dictator that the elite/illuminati place in authority over 10 nations (quite possibly organised by the United Nations after WWIII). According to the prophecies, this arrangement will only last one hour and the dictator will then get even more power hungry and steal control from 7 of the nations using military force and have to wipe out three completely because of lack of cooperation (likely nuclear?).


Hi, WiseSheep



Would you admit that this inerpretation you have outlined is only one of many which have sought to identify Antichrist, etc? This sounds like one variant of Premillenial Dispensationalism which, although quite popular amonst Evangelicals today, is not the only viable interpretation.

Here is a link to a site which does a pretty good job of explaining various eschatological forms; for instance, premillennial, postmillennial, amillennial, reconstructionist, etc.:


www.preteristarchive.com...

This is a preterist site; I am more of a historicist, but the guy's archive really has some good info.

It's always fun to read...






[edit on 3/19/2006 by apocalypticon]



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by apocalypticon
Would you admit that this inerpretation you have outlined is only one of many.


Sure it is. Disinformation has been flying around for years. The 'end is near' crap has been flying around for the past 200 years atleast. Only now are the real pieces of the puzzle slipping together and now everyone is denying it, even the bigwheels that have made a living on it through scaring their congregations, are seeming to be looking for the antichrist rather than the true return of Jesus. :/



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by darkelf
Psalm 122:6
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Umm I think that prayer is ok with you?



Was this not written BEFORE God's chosen people slapped his only son in the face? It's a dead given that it all was surely meant to happen, but look at it from a historical standpoint through human eyes.


But it is not a humanly-designed plan--how can we understand God's ways if we insist on approaching the manifestation of his thoughts by way of our limited human view?


It's a fairly easy picture to see


But it is the more hard-to-discern picture that is the fruit of the examination.


Try this: If you choose something and it turns around and attempts to destroy your very meaning and foundation, is it still chosen? WAS chosen would be a term used, but no IS as in the present.

That would depend totally upon the desire/decision of the initial chooser.
In this case, that would be God. Who are we to say on God's behalf?


This is NOT about the Jewish race, it's very specificly about the ones that intentionally deny Jesus Christ through their works and therefore do the work of the antichrist.

Then it's about many, many people in the world, all shapes, sizes, colors, and flavors...

God chose Israel, not the Jews. There is difference.


Read John 8:31-47 specifically John 8:44. Which is a perfect explanation of this.

Then one must ignore so many words of the prophets, such as Isaiah and Jeremiah...

And to ignore Isaiah's words about Israel demands that we also discredit the rest of his words. You know what that means, don't you?

If God would break a promise to Israel, can you be sure the promises made to you would be kept?

God loves the whole world. Period.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Well, where to start...

The idea of someone being an antichrist is by no means new. First John 2:18 states,


Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.


This letter was more than likely written before 70AD (I'll provide the link to the evidence when I post it on another thread, it'll also be linked to in my sig). Even if you believe Constantine added this Epistle in the 4th century, it is still older than the 1500s. We can actually gather a lot of information from this one sentence. First, we can see that there was talk even then of the antichrist ("as you have heard..."), but John states that anyone against Christ is an antichrist (anti being against, Christ being...well, Christ).

Then there's also the Revelation account. What's interesting about this book of the Bible is its duality, or potential for duality. Way back in the day, there was a very prominent and powerful antichrist by the name of Emperor Nero. A lot of the prophesy in Revelations applied to that time which has led many to believe that the apocalypse as described in Revelations has already taken place.

There is one important factor to consider, however, when making that judgment. Many messianic prophecies, of which Revelations is one, had dual meanings. A recent prophetic event, and a longer term one. For example, prophesies foretelling a King for Israel. The initial satisfaction of the prophecy was with King David, but it was truly fulfilled with Jesus. Personally, I believe that that is what Revelations is, along with a lot of the end times prophesy coming out of the Old Testament.

Annie, what parts of Isaiah and Jeremiah do you content contradict John 8:31-47?



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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JJ,

Interesting that you would post that verse ... Sounds an awful lot like alot of thing's Jesus said.



www.religioustolerance.org... [EDIT] source added.
"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

....This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished....But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is." A "generation" normally refers to a forty year interval. If Jesus spoke those words circa 29 CE, then all of the events predicted in Mark 13:24-27 would have happened on or before 69 CE: the sun and moon would have been darkened, the stars would have fallen from heaven, the Son of Man would have arrived in the clouds with great power and glory, and the angels would have collected "his elect" from around the Earth and taken them to Heaven.

Jesus is recorded as saying: "...there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (KJV) As mentioned above, the early Christian movement assumed that Jesus was referring to the individuals standing in the crowd in front of him. The King James Version, cited above, does permit another alternative interpretation. Jesus might have been referring to a location and not to the crowd. He could have meant "there will be some people standing at this location sometime in the future who will see the Son of Man coming." However, other English translations make this improbable; they generally translate the passage as: "...there are some of those standing here..."

Matthew 24:34: Jesus is recorded as saying: "...This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Luke 9:26-27: Jesus is recorded as saying: "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (all KJV)


The parts that stuck out for me ...


A "generation" normally refers to a forty year interval. If Jesus spoke those words circa 29 CE, then all of the events predicted in Mark 13:24-27 would have happened on or before 69 CE:


And then what you posted.


Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

...

This letter was more than likely written before 70AD


Sounds like the verse was going right along with what Jesus had predicted. Funny .... it never happened.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
That would depend totally upon the desire/decision of the initial chooser.
In this case, that would be God. Who are we to say on God's behalf?


The desire and decision of Jehovah was made all too clear when he sent his son, The King of Jews and the(or most of the would be more correct) Jews disowned him. After Jehovah sent his son, the ones who believe in his son Jesus Christ are then his chosen people. We have every right to say this because it's written in his word. I'm not speaking on his behalf, I'M REPEATING WHAT HE HAS ALREADY SAID, through the testimony of his son! *inserts the thread title here*


Originally posted by queenannie38
God loves the whole world. Period.


Yes he does, so much so that he gave his only son and whoever believes in him will not perish, but rather have eternal life.


What about those who deny his son, be it through their works or just out right? Jesus Christ is the life line that the one true GOD cast to you, no matter your race. If one decides to overlook the life line and drown, that's their problem. People that take offense to this, may take all the offense they like! The truth will stand forever.




If this thread only opens one set of blind eyes, it's priceless.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 06:58 PM
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Nvm, misread your post.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 07:01 PM
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here we go with another fundamentalist trying to convert the massses. give it up. the muslims cant do it, what makes you think that the christians can. if you religious people would just let "non-believers" alone, then things would be so much better off.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan
the muslims cant do it, what makes you think that the christians can.


Sure because they believe in a fabrication born of lucifer's imagination.


Originally posted by KrazyIvan
if you religious people would just let "non-believers" alone, then things would be so much better off.


Better off for who? Define better off.

We will be taken out of the way for the very ones that it'll be 'better off'(as you say) for. The proceeding seven years will be far from 'better off'.

Another thing, I put no label on myself other than a follower of and believer in Jesus Christ. Denominational garbage, is exactly that 'garbage'.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
The desire and decision of Jehovah was made all too clear when he sent his son, The King of Jews and the(or most of the would be more correct) Jews disowned him.

How could they 'disown' him when they didn't own him, in the first place?

Read the OT. It was planned. Then read the book of Hebrews.



After Jehovah sent his son, the ones who believe in his son Jesus Christ are then his chosen people.

'Chosen' for what? Salvation? No. The whole world is saved. Already.

Those 'chosen' are chosen to spread that word. Not evangelize on behalf of some erroneous scheme based on people's individual choice for heaven and hell.

To spread the word of love and reconciliation. Again, read Paul.


If this thread only opens one set of blind eyes, it's priceless.


Who knows? Those eyes could even be yours!



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
the muslims cant do it, what makes you think that the christians can.


Sure because they believe in a fabrication born of lucifer's imagination.

No they believe in a fabrication born of MANS imagination!




Originally posted by KrazyIvan
if you religious people would just let "non-believers" alone, then things would be so much better off.


Better off for who? Define better off.

We will be taken out of the way for the very ones that it'll be 'better off'(as you say) for. The proceeding seven years will be far from 'better off'.

Another thing, I put no label on myself other than a follower of and believer in Jesus Christ. Denominational garbage, is exactly that 'garbage'.

Better off = not having to listen to garbage about omniwhatever gods and their supposed sons/prophets, not having having to listen to garbage about how what we think is wrong and how what you say is the only way, not having to listen to garbage about the end of days/time - need I go on?
And what happens when your seven years are up and nothing has happened? will you then start again preaching the end?

G



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by shihulud
Better off = not having to listen to garbage about omniwhatever gods and their supposed sons/prophets, not having having to listen to garbage about how what we think is wrong and how what you say is the only way, not having to listen to garbage about the end of days/time - need I go on?


Better off...On what are you basing that?

I think you do need to go on, because either you are a masochist, you don't believe what you're saying, or you haven't realized that there is no requirement for visiting this forum.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by shihulud
Better off = not having to listen to garbage about omniwhatever gods and their supposed sons/prophets, not having having to listen to garbage about how what we think is wrong and how what you say is the only way, not having to listen to garbage about the end of days/time - need I go on?


Better off...On what are you basing that?

I think you do need to go on, because either you are a masochist, you don't believe what you're saying, or you haven't realized that there is no requirement for visiting this forum.

Based on reading most of the posts on religion and listening to the mad people that sometimes descend at your door.
As for visiting the forum I find some of the posts funny to read, some informative, some interesting and I like sticking my oar in now and again.
Is this a problem?

G



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

This letter was more than likely written before 70AD (I'll provide the link to the evidence when I post it on another thread, it'll also be linked to in my sig).
I for one would like to see this evidence.


Then there's also the Revelation account. What's interesting about this book of the Bible is its duality, or potential for duality....
....There is one important factor to consider, however, when making that judgment. Many messianic prophecies, of which Revelations is one, had dual meanings. A recent prophetic event, and a longer term one. For example, prophesies foretelling a King for Israel. The initial satisfaction of the prophecy was with King David, but it was truly fulfilled with Jesus. Personally, I believe that that is what Revelations is, along with a lot of the end times prophesy coming out of the Old Testament.
Where does this duality come into anything? Another christian invention because jesus never did what he said he would. And since when was jesus proclaimed King of Israel?


G



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
the muslims cant do it, what makes you think that the christians can.


Sure because they believe in a fabrication born of lucifer's imagination.


Originally posted by KrazyIvan
if you religious people would just let "non-believers" alone, then things would be so much better off.


Better off for who? Define better off.

We will be taken out of the way for the very ones that it'll be 'better off'(as you say) for. The proceeding seven years will be far from 'better off'.

Another thing, I put no label on myself other than a follower of and believer in Jesus Christ. Denominational garbage, is exactly that 'garbage'.




so the world is gonna end in seven years?

you do know that people thought this exact same way during the rise of hitler and WWII. and guess what, nothing happened. same thing during the cold war.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by shihulud
Is this a problem?


Not a problem so much as a curiosity -- why don't you want this better life you speak of? (oh, and don't listen to those folk who come to your door with Watchtower booklets for you
)


Originally posted by shihulud
Where does this duality come into anything? Another christian invention because jesus never did what he said he would.



Interesting theory, but no. More Old Testament prophesies, some of which were fulfilled in the OT in two different ways, others that applied partially to one individual (mostly David) but completely to Christ.

And since when was Jesus proclaimed King of Israel?
As soon as the Jewish leadership brought Christ before Pilate saying He declared Himself the King of the Jews. This is also why he got that thorny crown you've probably seen depicted, and where Pilate had "The King Of The Jews" put up on His cross.

Most importantly, if He is the Jewish messiah and part of the Triune God, then, ipso facto, He would be their King, as they worship God as their lord over everything.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan
so the world is gonna end in seven years?


One day you will flip on your daily news and hear of quite a few strange disappearances around the earth. You may even witness this yourself. When that takes place start counting. And the world isn't gonna end, it's gonna get a massive overhaul and be repopulated with the mortal survivors of this seven year period. No this little rock we're populating is just getting fired up.



Originally posted by KrazyIvan
you do know that people thought this exact same way during the rise of hitler and WWII. and guess what, nothing happened. same thing during the cold war.


Foolish of them because of the fact that all the pieces to the puzzle weren't lined up at that point in history. Now that Israel is a Luciferic run operation and the whole world is at her feet, we're right on target. All they are waiting to fabricate now is an excuse (WWIII?) to introduce their coming 'messiah' to make the world a happy peaceful place.



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