It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Merkava 4 invincible!?!?!??!

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 01:51 PM
link   
www.army-technology.com...

it says it can avoid destruction by sophisticated ant tnka weaponry and topa ttack munitions do u think its the nbest tank in the world!?!?!??!?




posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 02:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by urmomma158
www.army-technology.com...

it says it can avoid destruction by sophisticated ant tnka weaponry and topa ttack munitions do u think its the nbest tank in the world!?!?!??!?


those are very big claims for a tank that is untested in actual combat(this is not the same as the other merkavas) becuase this version is a completly built from scratch.

lets look at this logically usally when tanks are hit with anti-tank missiles they are hit in the back and usally they survive becuase the engine is in the back now the merkava has its engine in the front this is good to stop other tanks shells and sabots but i dont think this tank stands a chance if its hit in the back with a kornet-e. no this tank is not the best in the world becuase its untested and crushing palestinians who are probably the worst armed guerilla fighters on the planet combined with the fact the palestinians have the worset battle stratergies and tactics that i have ever seen of any guerilla force also doesnt make me too confident of the merkavas capabilities.

all modern tanks can take hits from rpgs and survive. also stopping top attack munitions isnt really that difficult although there will be a weight penelty what you do is layer the turret with composite armour and then layer that with ERA and it will hold out quite well.it must be noted that any big munition will destroy a tank but most shoulder launched top attack missiles can be stopped with additional armour i suspect israel double layer the turret with composite armour to withstand the tandem warheads.

no way would i rate this higher then a M1A2 or Challenger 2 tanks until it takes a few hits from a modern tank and modern wire guided missiles and still is left standing.

do you have any additional information about this tank.



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 02:48 PM
link   
no i was jst wondering if it can take ahit from a hellifre on the top nd survive
Alos if git hit witha hellfire on the side or TOW? are there any that can destroy the merkava in 1 hit
[edit on 18-3-2006 by urmomma158]

[edit on 18-3-2006 by urmomma158]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 03:58 PM
link   
from the pictures i thought that it looked very basic and fairly rubbish, but from the writing it sounded too good to be true. Must be very cramped in there when they have 8 combat troops plus the tank crew.

Justin



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 04:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by urmomma158
no i was jst wondering if it can take ahit from a hellifre on the top nd survive

No, it would not survive. Accordingly, there is virtually no tank that can survive a direct top hit from that latest versions of Hellfire.




Alos if git hit witha hellfire on the side or TOW? are there any that can destroy the merkava in 1 hit

The latest versions of Hellfire would destroy the Merkava, along with virtually all other modern tanks....in one direct hit.






seekerof

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 07:25 PM
link   
Seeker is right, it is widely recognized that the latest version of the Hellfire missile can destroy virtually any tank in service as of now. I don't know what those writers were thinking but I do know that you shouldn't take everything you read online too literally. This is an unproven tank, it has not gone up against other tanks and it has certainly not gone up against sophisticated anti-tank missiles. Furthermore, I do not have any armor stats which would impress me to the point of agreeing with the article.

AGM-114 Hellfire
AGM-114 Hellfire
AGM-114 Hellfire



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 08:02 PM
link   
also i would like to add the previous merkavas have been desotryed or damaged completly by hezbollah and even palestinas in war. but when hezbollah was fighting they had old outdated russian at-3 and at-4 anti tank missiles and rpg's as well infact the merkava has not been hit by any modern anti tank missiles.
but thoese where enough to damage the merkava 3 enough to stop them even thoug they where not tandem warhead the merkava from my knowalge has never been hit by a tandem warhead missile so it is not clear how well it would be able to take the hit.

a merkava was completly blown by a mine set off in palestine years back which killed 3 out of the 4 tank crew altough it is unknown how much damage the 4th tank crew members suffered.

[edit on 18-3-2006 by iqonx]



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 03:08 AM
link   
Neat little tank.

I doubt it's armor could stop the usual western AT round, a depleted Uranium APFSDS.

I saw a photograph of an Abrams M1A2 that was deliberately disabled by a hit from another Abrams. Even with Chobham armor, the round went through both sides of the tank.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 05:05 AM
link   
What they are probably referring to - to defeat ATGM -threats - is an APS ( Active Protection System ). The Israeli " Trophy " sytem is one such available.


The system has completed hundreds of live test with the Israel Defense Forces and demonstrated effective neutralization of anti-tank rockets and guided missiles, high safety levels, insignificant residual penetration and minimal collateral damage. The system is in full scale engineering phase for inclusion on Merkava Mk. 4 tanks and the future light armored vehicle (Stryker)

From the briefing provided by US sources, Defense Update understands that Trophy is design to form a "beam" of fragments, which will intercept any incoming HEAT threat, including RPG rockets at a range of 10 – 30 meters from the protected platform. The Trophy development roadmap considers an enhanced countermeasure unit to be available in the future, and protect against kinetic energy (KE) threats. Trophy was designed to effectively operate in a dense urban environment, where armored vehicles operate closely with integrated infantry forces. Therefore, direction, formation and energy of the fragments areMerkava 3 with prototype Trophy APS Ssytem demonstrated at LIC 2005 designed to ensure effective target kill with low collateral damage, and low risk to nearby troops

BELOW - Sequence of the Trophy showing pre-intercept, detonation and sympathetic explosion of the AT-3 Malyutka (Sagger) type threat



www.defense-update.com...



The Trophy system can detect, classify, track and destroy all types of advanced anti-armour threats, including anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and rockets at "a significant distance" away from a targeted platform - in some cases destroying the threat without detonation, which means no residual effect on the platform, Didi Ben-Yoash, Rafael's APS business development manager, told JDW. The distance at which Trophy can engage the threats is classified, he added.

The Trophy system comprises two components: an Elta radar linked to four antennas located at the front, rear and sides of the platform providing 360º protection (as well as protecting against most advanced top attack ATGMs at a very high elevation) and two Rafael-developed 'hard kill' mechanisms located either side of the platform.

www.rafael.co.il...



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 05:09 AM
link   
They used to say that reactive armor made tanks almost invicible. Until they found all kinds of neat and simple ways to defeat it. I'll believe the Merkava is invincible when it goes up against real threats with 0 losses.

The easy way to stop a Merkava? Introduce it to an A-10.

[edit on 3/19/2006 by Zaphod58]


M6D

posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 06:29 AM
link   
Of course nothings invicible, pssh, yes, against people running around with RPG's in the middle east it probably practically is invincible, this is unltil you get down to hardcore insurgants in iraq, i have no doubt even this tank would of been destroyed by multiple 155mm arty shells stacked on top of eachother.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 07:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by rogue1
What they are probably referring to - to defeat ATGM -threats - is an APS ( Active Protection System ). The Israeli " Trophy " sytem is one such available.


The system has completed hundreds of live test with the Israel Defense Forces and demonstrated effective neutralization of anti-tank rockets and guided missiles, high safety levels, insignificant residual penetration and minimal collateral damage. The system is in full scale engineering phase for inclusion on Merkava Mk. 4 tanks and the future light armored vehicle (Stryker)

From the briefing provided by US sources, Defense Update understands that Trophy is design to form a "beam" of fragments, which will intercept any incoming HEAT threat, including RPG rockets at a range of 10 – 30 meters from the protected platform. The Trophy development roadmap considers an enhanced countermeasure unit to be available in the future, and protect against kinetic energy (KE) threats. Trophy was designed to effectively operate in a dense urban environment, where armored vehicles operate closely with integrated infantry forces. Therefore, direction, formation and energy of the fragments areMerkava 3 with prototype Trophy APS Ssytem demonstrated at LIC 2005 designed to ensure effective target kill with low collateral damage, and low risk to nearby troops

BELOW - Sequence of the Trophy showing pre-intercept, detonation and sympathetic explosion of the AT-3 Malyutka (Sagger) type threat



www.defense-update.com...



The Trophy system can detect, classify, track and destroy all types of advanced anti-armour threats, including anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and rockets at "a significant distance" away from a targeted platform - in some cases destroying the threat without detonation, which means no residual effect on the platform, Didi Ben-Yoash, Rafael's APS business development manager, told JDW. The distance at which Trophy can engage the threats is classified, he added.

The Trophy system comprises two components: an Elta radar linked to four antennas located at the front, rear and sides of the platform providing 360º protection (as well as protecting against most advanced top attack ATGMs at a very high elevation) and two Rafael-developed 'hard kill' mechanisms located either side of the platform.

www.rafael.co.il...



first of all it stopped a at-3. the at-3 is one of the slowest wire guided missiles in the world. to go about 3km it takes about 26 seconds.
www.fas.org...


and thats really slow and becuase its the AT-3 Malyutka it means its the first generation meaning that it is not cold launced or ejected from a tube instead it leaves a huge lauch signiture which modern second gen missile dont meaning you can spot this missile from miles away infact if you have a machine gun you can actually shoot the missile down yourself with a machine gun(7.62) its slow and leaves a huge signiture and its noisy as hell you can also hear the thing lauch.

Also i would like to add thats its also joystick controled meaning that its not SACLOS guidence and becuase of this it has a different flight path then a modern missile. a old first gen missile like the at-3 becuase its joystick guided you have to fly it high so that you dont accidently crash it into the ground this is why in the wars between israel and arabs there where reports of wires being tangled around the israeli tanks becuase the missiles missed the targets becuase the flyed right over the tanks and missed the targets but a modern missile becuase its not controled by a joystick but is controlled by a computer through SACLOS guidence its has a much lower flight profile then the AT-3 meaning that it almost hugs the ground compared to the AT-3 and has no launch signiture and you can barely hear most modern missiles launch this means that modern missiles are almost impossible to stop using this syetm that israel has.

i will only belive this system works when it actually stops a modern missile not some 1960's at-3 missile.

even the russians havent relyed on a a shoot down system they combined there ARENA system with another system that emits i think was IR or something and it was paered on there tanks to deal with modern missile systems the israeli tanks have attempted no such thing with theres and have only tested it against rpgs and at-3 thats not really proving anything.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 08:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by iqonx
the AT-3 and has no launch signiture and you can barely hear most modern missiles launch this means that modern missiles are almost impossible to stop using this syetm that israel has.


What has hearing a missile lauch got to do with anything. Do you bother reading the articales at all
It uses radar to detect incoming threats.

i will only belive this system works when it actually stops a modern missile not some 1960's at-3 missile.


It's a test
There is so much secrecy about teh system, they have released almost no information on testing.



even the russians havent relyed on a a shoot down system they combined there ARENA system with another system that emits i think was IR or something and it was paered on there tanks to deal with modern missile systems.


LOL, even the Russians, well if the Russians aren't developing a similar system, tehn it isn't worth it
Pointless argument. IR coutermeasures doesn't effect MMW guidenace such as used on the Javelin - so the russian system is useless against modern ATGM's.


the israeli tanks have attempted no such thing with theres and have only tested it against rpgs and at-3 thats not really proving anything.


How would you know ? The US seems to be confident anough to incorporate in new series Strykers



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 09:46 AM
link   
Good find Rouge, but it does make sense, even if it can’t stop all western ATGM’s its still a good system for the Israelis. The Palestinians are not likely to be armed with top notch missiles anyway so for the threat it is likely to face it might do quite well.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by rogue1
What has hearing a missile lauch got to do with anything. Do you bother reading the articales at all
It uses radar to detect incoming threats.


i was talking about the launch positions infact most israeli systems including previous systems on there APC's, IFV etc... used an accustic system to detect which direction a missiles, gunfire etc... came from even there tanks use this system. this allows them to detect which direction a missile was launched from and for them to return fire to the missile launch position.

any way this wasnt related to the Millimtre wave radar i was general information about the previous systems also if you look at previous wars this is how they stopped the saggar missile from hitting the tank they saw where the sound/smoke came from and the tanks, machine gunners opened fire on that target to stop the missile as well as fire at the actual missile.

MMV cannot detect low level ground huggin missiles that fly really fast to the target also the newer missiles are not made from metal they are made of composite materials which sevearly reduce the effectivness of MMVR i was just explainning in general that the test is not that big of a deal.


Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, even the Russians, well if the Russians aren't developing a similar system, tehn it isn't worth it
Pointless argument. IR coutermeasures doesn't effect MMW guidenace such as used on the Javelin - so the russian system is useless against modern ATGM's.


actually the javalin is IR. hellfire is MMVR
www.fas.org...



Originally posted by rogue1


How would you know ? The US seems to be confident anough to incorporate in new series Strykers





the US was also confident about the SM3 and its capabilites.


[edit on 19-3-2006 by iqonx]



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:23 AM
link   

the US was also confident about the SM3 and its capabilites.


Wait, what's wrong with the SM-3? Its still in the testing and evaluation stages.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by WestPoint23

the US was also confident about the SM3 and its capabilites.


Wait, what's wrong with the SM-3? Its still in the testing and evaluation stages.


there nothing wrong with it its just that americans companies keep on overhyping the porducts they sell and overestimating there ability and effectivness im sure it will be a decent system but not for the next 10 years while they are claiming its working right now while its not working as well as they are claimming.

same with the israelis they sell weopons which are not thourally battle tested only againgt poorly armed palestinians and they make massive claims about there technology without actuall proof.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 02:18 PM
link   
The SM-3 doesn't work work as well as they say?
That's news to me, considering it's missed ONCE in the 7 or 8 tests they've done so far, including a recent test with a redesigned missile.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 07:28 PM
link   
THe sm 3 has been successful alot of wepaons sytems fail on the first tests overhyped ?!??! if i apply the same knowledge the same could be applied to all military equiment so that means the M1A2i soverhyped as well as the T 45!?!? wowlol!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 07:35 PM
link   
well it says it can avoid. But facts are facts. One looks at the material and armament of the tank. I do not think the Merkava armor is as good as other MBTs especially the challenger 2 or abrams.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join