Hi,

I've been wondering about something fairly recently. I realize that there are many people who believe that the Police State is near. Myself included. But I got to thinking, whomever it is that is supposed to be in charge of bringing this Police State to the US, I'm sure is already a group or an individual of the extreme elite.

Whoever it is, they must already have wealth and power beyond reason. So, why in the world would they need or want to create a Police State. They already control things pretty much anyway. So what benefits could possibly be left for "them" to reap?

Anyone have any ideas?

Cy

Rumour has it that the USA is becoming too powerful for its own good....the elite want a level of control spread out throughout the 13 families... not just in the hands one a few... at the moment there is an internal war between 3 families, the Windsors, Rothchilds, and Romanovs...they all want the 'chairman' position.....Rothchilds at the moment has that position...

So martial law or division of the USA into 2 countries will limit its power.....and give more power to the other families...... spreading the control over the 13 families as to not instigate further family feuds...

So expect civil unrest..... possible huge terrorist attacks...Look towards the stock market..possible crash...look towards more 'natural' disasters.....any of which will force the 'downgrade' of the USA...

Kind Regards
Merger

@Merger intresting stuff about the 3 families you mention there, care to provide some good links please ?

Well, O.K. to be honest, although ever since I have been on this board, I have read on and off about these "13 families". I recognize the 3 names that you mention. But, excuse me if I sound dumb/uninformed, but although I realize that they are families with "old money", and of extreme wealth and their names are very prominent, I never did understand why they are held in such awe. Like they can take over the world. And how does one know of the fact that those 3 are feuding right now? I'm not saying that none of this is true, I just have never really understood itl

But, O.K. supposing I did understand it. It seems to me that first of all, the only one who can call for Marshall Law in the U.S., would be Bush. AFAIK, the Bush family isn't one of the 13? Maybe...... but it doesn't make sense. Why would he want to help one or more of those other families?

Also, maybe I have been reading the wrong stuff, but I have found a lot of "content" I won't call it information, as I don't know for sure if it's true or not, but it does make a lot of sense to me. But it seems to me as if it is those like, Ashcroft, Chertoff, Gonzalez, certain members of the FBI, perhaps Wolfowitz(sp?) and Bolton......maybe I'm not completely accurate in all of the names I have used, but it seems as if it is those and their cronies that are working on the Police State. Ashcoft, and I think Chertoff along with a couple others supposedely wrote some of the most controversial parts of the Patriot Act, the ones where we lose some basic, constitutional freedoms, ie... warrantless search and seizure, wiretaps, etc... It is the loss of freedoms of the people that leads to the police state.

It seems as if the ones in or close to the current administration are the onels working toward creating this Police State. This is what is making no sense to me. Many say that they want it, I think so too, but I still don't understand what they stand to gain.

Or, are they somehow under the control of those families that you mentioned?

Curious, still.

Cy

Just my two cents, but it comes down to the fact that even though they have the power, influence and money, in reality the “mob rules”.

If you are in their position and you know something is about to happen, you want to have a tight grip on the reigns of the “Mob”, or they will end up like those in power during the French Revolution. With the number of people on the planet increasing, the resources decreasing, and the standard of living in countries with vast populations such as China and India increasing, something is going to have to break at some point.

I read somewhere that the average American citizen requires three acres of land per year in resources, the next closest were those in the Uk at around 1 acre. Eventually the living standard of those in the more privileged countries is going to have to decrease, or the number of people in the world decrease or basically we will be hitting them were it hurts and using up the resources they consider to be theirs by right.

Once you start decreasing either the standard of living through a depression, or allow many to die as in a disaster, the little guy is not going to stand by an let it happen very lightly, they are going to revolt against the powers that be. Martial Law and the Police state will not follow very far behind that, as a means to restore order and retain power. I am pretty certain that is why we are seeing some of the cogs set into motion now to set up for this eventuality, many have been in place for years.

There is also a normal cycle to any governmental system, a life cycle of sorts. That a Democracy, or a republic in the case of the US, will eventually evolve into another form of government. I have read that no “True” Democracy can survive long term as eventually the “have not’s” will take from the “haves” until it becomes Communism (everything equal and owned by government)or the “haves” will over power the “have not’s” until it becomes Despotism (all the power in the hands of a few tyrants). Perhaps some breaking point is approaching and they are gearing up to hold on to their power while they can.

I am sure that there are many here who are far more versed in the evolution of forms of government then I am, and I would be interested to know their opinion on the subject.

Again, this is just my two cents.


[edit on 3/18/2006 by defcon5]

Well, if you look at the genetics of the presidents and prime-ministers of the worlds leading nations, they are all in one way or another 'related' to these 13 families. Bush being a name of 'commitee of 300' an illuminati family.... is actually related to the Windsors..one of the 13..... HOWEVER, the USA is actually controlled by the Rothchilds...... Presidents and Prime Ministers are not the decision makers, they are told what to do, they are puppets! The true government is hidden and out of sight....the true government agenda...is the government body that is run 'by' the 13 families.. (well lets face it...there are really 14 families, but the 13 won't acknowledge 1 of them..and are trying to remove them as well, even though they ARE related)

The concept that they are feuding are the results of global events.... originally the feud was between the Windsors and Rothchilds...however Romanovs have started arking up more recently..... This is a result of actions of the countries that are controlled by the certain families...Romanov being controller of Russia, Windsor control the UK and Rothchilds controlling USA.....I think events in Russia recently showed evidence they want the chairman position.....anyway, the 13 families ARE related as well, so its not actually family vs family, its within their own family structure...

So even though this goes waaaaaaaay back, I want to point out something since the 1900's.... The controllers of Germany were and still are the Hapsburg 13 family...... Russia is controlled by the Romanov 13 family.... UK is in control of the Windsor 13 family.....and USA is in control of the 13 Rothchild family.....

So what happened during WWII?? Germany tried to take over the world..... so Hapsburg family instigated a war...against the west... controlled by their own genetic related families...... so what does the events of WWII mean? there is evidence of Prescot Bush giving money to Hitler to fund his efforts....errr what?

Cold War...Russia VS USA... Romanov VS Rothchild..... another supposed (cold) war..... yet they are genetically related....errr what?

These wars were nothing more than a setup.... these nations are playing for the SAME team.....its just public consumption disinformation to divide and conquer.....

Ok, the 14th illuminati family....the Japanese Royal Family...... what did the USA do to stop WWII? Drop a friqn atomic bomb on Japan! A 'global' ritual...the ability to create and destroy matter...

You will find that an attack in the USA (supposed natural) is an attack by the Japanese royal family..... however one year exactly after, there is a an attack (supposed natural) on japanese.....errr what?

So you are right..the bush family is not part of the 13, but is related to windsor, and is part of the committee of 300 (next generation family if you want to call it).....his decision is not out of his own doing, its what he's instructed to do....

Hope this helps?

Kind Regards
Merger

Originally posted by defcon5
Once you start decreasing either the standard of living through a depression, or allow many to die as in a disaster, the little guy is not going to stand by an let it happen very lightly, they are going to revolt against the powers that be. Martial Law and the Police state will not follow very far behind that, as a means to restore order and retain power. I am pretty certain that is why we are seeing some of the cogs set into motion now to set up for this eventuality, many have been in place for years.

O.K. a dim light bulb is starting to glow. (Remember, I am just trying to understand the thinking behind the ones who want the Police State, I am in no way for it - Just for the record)

So, you are saying that the Powers that Be might not be so confidant as they seem to portray themselves, and that the real reasoning behind them wanting to create a Police State. which I understand to follow in the footsteps of Marshall Law, is that they are scared of us? To put it very simply? IMO, they well should be, considering what has become of not only this country, but the world! Yet, what is wrong with us!!! We just grumble and complain and ultimately tolerate whatever it is that they want to impose on us!

You say that if they decrease the standard of living through a depression, (unemployment is way up, and has been for the last 5 years) or allow many to die in a disaster, (Katrina) eventually the "little guy" will revolt against the government, overthrow them and re-institute a new government. Well, what you are saying will happen, well.... it totally baffles me........why? Why? WHY has this not happend yet??? Although now laughable (unfortunately), wasn't this country based on government being elected officials, elected by the people to be public servants for the people? To place the needs and wants of the people first and foremost and to write legislation that represents what the majority of the people decide that they want and need?

*******stop************ deep breath. Time to re-group. Sorry, I found myself going off on a tangent. Now, back to the question at hand.

You're saying that basically, the Powers that Be know that they are getting way out of hand and angering a good portion of American citizens, and it would be only natural that in time, the people will be able to take only so much, and will revolt, causing them to lose their positions? I think that is what you are saying. Well, if so, O.K. this is the first thing that makes some sense as to why they would want to have a "safety net" if you will (Marshall Law) in order to insure that they remain in power. And drawing my own conclusion from that concept, I guess that there would be civil unrest, as the time for revolution draws near, and civil unrest is one of the justifications for calling for Marshall Law. Am I getting close? It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There is also a normal cycle to any governmental system, a life cycle of sorts. That a Democracy, or a republic in the case of the US, will eventually evolve into another form of government. I have read that no “True” Democracy can survive long term as eventually the “have not’s” will take from the “haves” until it becomes Communism (everything equal and owned by government)or the “haves” will over power the “have not’s” until it becomes Despotism (all the power in the hands of a few tyrants). Perhaps some breaking point is approaching and they are gearing up to hold on to their power while they can.

I guess that this has already been happening for quite some time, and is just manifesting itself more obviously in recent years. Although, I can't quite see Bush, Cheney or any of them (especially some of those who I believe to be really in charge, like Chertoff, Ashcroft, Gonzales, unethical FBI agents, same with some CIA agents, and I'm sure many, many others entwined in the web of deception and corruption that is running our nation settling for everything being equal and owned by the government. However, I can easily see, and perhaps because it's right in front of us, all of the power in the hands of a few (or several) tyrants.

Thank you, defcon5. Unless I have completely misunderstood your post, the concepts that you have laid out have allowed me to make some sense (however sick it may be) out of my question of what is the reasoning behind WANTING to create a Police State. (Of course, if I'm totally off base, then I just make a total idiot out of myself, and am back at first base)

Originally posted by Merger
Well, if you look at the genetics of the presidents and prime-ministers of the worlds leading nations, they are all in one way or another 'related' to these 13 families. Bush being a name of 'commitee of 300' an illuminati family.... is actually related to the Windsors..one of the 13..... HOWEVER, the USA is actually controlled by the Rothchilds...... Presidents and Prime Ministers are not the decision makers, they are told what to do, they are puppets! The true government is hidden and out of sight....the true government agenda...is the government body that is run 'by' the 13 families..[.............]

Merger, your info is more complex, and more diffficult for me to understand. And I'm sure that that is at least in part due to the fact that although I have tried to read up on the illuminati (the enlightened ones?) because there are so many references to them as being part of the NWO, I have never really been able to interest myself in them, or any group (secret society(s) as I guess many call them. They seem so remote and unreal as to what I see happening in the world around me. However, I do believe what you say about the fact that presidents and prime ministers are basically just figureheads (puppets) to put out front and let them take all the sh*t, etc....

Somehow, I just have trouble relating it back to those 13 families that are often mentioned. I see the "silent government", or "shadow government" or whatever name to call the force that really runs things, as being some of the more current names which I mentioned earlier. Chertoff, in particular. And others who seem to be working directly against the people, and doing things deliberately in order to see that our freedoms (and privacies) continue to dissapear more and more, while more and more power is shifted to them. I mean, what is this? The President is above the law during a never-ending war that he self-perpetuated.... Who told him that? Ashcroft? Gonzalez? Both I believe.

Are these people doing this for self-serving reasons, as I have believed? Or could they also be puppets of perhaps those 13 families, and that's how it all ties in?

The concept that they are feuding are the results of global events.... originally the feud was between the Windsors and Rothchilds...however Romanovs have started arking up more recently..... This is a result of actions of the countries that are controlled by the certain families...Romanov being controller of Russia, Windsor control the UK and Rothchilds controlling USA.....I think events in Russia recently showed evidence they want the chairman position.....anyway, the 13 families ARE related as well, so its not actually family vs family, its within their own family structure...

I'm sorry, I believe that you are truly trying to be helpful, and I'm not saying that I doubt you, but to be quite honest.......that was waaaaayyyyy above my head. One thing I did pick up on, however, was that you state that the Romanov family is still a very powerful family - in control of Russia. And it's not just you, I've heard this from others as well in these forums, but... Well, make a liar out of me, but I was under the distinct impression that the Romanov family was removed from power long ago, when they were sent to Siberia, eventually to be shot to death, including the would be heir to the Tzar/ex-Tzar. I suppose that there was extended family that survived, but still in power? I have always questioned that one.

So what happened during WWII?? Germany tried to take over the world..... so Hapsburg family instigated a war...against the west... controlled by their own genetic related families...... so what does the events of WWII mean? there is evidence of Prescot Bush giving money to Hitler to fund his efforts....errr what?

Cold War...Russia VS USA... Romanov VS Rothchild..... another supposed (cold) war..... yet they are genetically related....errr what?

These wars were nothing more than a setup.... these nations are playing for the SAME team.....its just public consumption disinformation to divide and conquer.....[...........]

I do pretty much agree, although I have no real proof, just a gut feeling, that these so called wars have been all in some way "staged", and the players are all really cooperating with each other. Although, I don't think tha the poor soldiers who are recruited to do the actual fighting think any such thing. (Population control?) But, I never saw the reason for these staged wars, if they so are/were as being that the top players are all related. Hmmm...... interesting concept.

By difcon5
I am sure that there are many here who are far more versed in the evolution of forms of government then I am, and I would be interested to know their opinion on the subject.

So would I. While some of this is beginning to make some sense, it is also raising more questions. Any other opinions, knowledge or perspectives on this subject would be very welcome.

Thanks, Cy






[edit on 3/19/2006 by CyberKat]

merger's theory of ruling families bears a strong resemblance to the ancient greco-roman idea about how the pathos and discontent of the gods affected our lives down here.

My feeling is that They don't WANT a police state, but They will institute one if need be.

To me, it seems the current corporate slave state is more effective because the public is a willing participant and hence, we are less bothersome and more effective profit/power generators.

The police state is reserved for when the public begins to wake up and break the chains of bondage. Then, They bust out the police state and dominate us with actual force. The result would be more control but a loss of profitability and production.

I think physical domination (ie. police state) is undesirable to Them because it demands a physical response to end it.

If the people are being controlled, but believe that they are free, then they have no cause to fight. Put chains on their hands and they suddenly have their freedom to fight for.


Note: I don't know who I'm referring to when I say 'They' or 'Them', nor do I know whether 'They' actually exist....

merger,
I have recently read a old pdf version of the anarchist cookbook and it gave me a vague understanding the the 13/14 families, I would really appreciate if you could post a link to more detailed information on the subject. Thanx

-Hannibal

I don't have direct links, most of it is in the form of notes from attending seminars.... as well as reading and finding links to the notes on the net (which I don't keep records of)...and 5 years of communications with the person who conducted the seminars (and read his books, watched his dvd's etc..etc..)

Never read the book you mentioned, what part of it has to do with the 13/14 families?

Kind Regards
Merger

[edit on 19/3/06 by Merger]

Ahh Merger, To add a little to the possition of the 14th family, "the Brisbane line" still exists. That was the name of the territory Australia (at Englands advice) was prepared to give up to Japan if we thought we couldn't hold them off, everything north of Brisbane.

Oddly they own an awfull lot of Queensland now anyway, cheaper to make courses and come here for golf than pay local cost.

They did actually bomb Darwin during the war but it was 'hushed up' till recently. Now I know Darwin was far from the rest of us, but that didn't stop us hearing about other things, with all the people who travel up and back.

How do you hush up a bombing that killed people? Easy when that's what all 14 families want.

Personally me and mine are among the many here who have great effection for the Japanese and worry what will happen now that the Royal line seems to be ending. Sorry, can't remember full details, so won't post any lest I get it wrong. Anyone else boned up on the situation?