It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NEWS: Republicans Warned By Evangelicals

page: 2
7
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:
df1

posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 01:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You have lumped all republicans in
as extreme fundamentalists and that's not true.

The vast majority of republicans pander to the extreme fundamentalist cult in order to get their financial support whether they subscribe to the religious doctrine of the cult or not. In doing this the republicans give the fundamentalists a voice that far exceeds their numbers and this is to the detriment of America.

The democrats are no different than republicans as democrats just sell their butt to a different master and this is no better for America. Unfortunately most folks on ATS choose to engage in partisan political bickering rather than acknowledge that our government is completely out of control and behaving accordingly.
.




posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 01:51 PM
link   
I don't think most Americans care one way or the other about Religious Fundamentalists, or Evangelicals, or Homosexuals, or just about anything else either. As long as somebody or some group isn't trying to force their values & beliefs on me or my family I don't care what they call themselves. However, when they cross the line into politics, I will oppose them in whatever way I can. I can elect to believe in some religion, or not; accept homosexuals, or not; Etc.; but when my right to choose is taken away through the passage of some law favoring a particular minority factions viewpoint then I get upset.

I agree the present two party political system is not working out very well. I know it would cause governance problems, but I think we should switch to proportional representation.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Astronomer68]



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 05:55 PM
link   
Personally, I believe that the fundamentalists have been 'used' by the crowd that has 'hijacked' the republican party. ( There is a growing chorus of conservative voices that are saying this about the hijacking of the party and the loss of 'conservative' ideals. )

Once the evangelicals votes were cast, perhaps they, and their ideals were no longer so important to the group that is reshaping the party?? We will be watching to see how much response this warning gets........



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 06:15 PM
link   
Gays currently have more power than they need, deserve or have earned. It is time for people to stop being intimidated by such special interest groups and for the majority to stand up for what they want and believe in.



posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 06:41 PM
link   
First off: if you are Christian, be proud, but dont be greedy...
For anyone to abuse Christianity in this way is blasphemous...

such as our president has done...
pledged to christ, but sells him the first minute he needs to...

He hasn't catered to Christians because he is a normnal joe, who knew how to blow... he blew the christian right, all the way to the pulpit/presidency...

Now we see his colors are the normal ol grey of all presidents... who woulda thunk it? (everyone who wasn't having visions of armageddon, thats who)

as to all these christians who feel shafted... do you feel even more shafted to know that our presidency has cozied himself to afghan warlord heroin smugglers, or maybe it bothers you that he himself was linked to the white house gay porn sex scandal?

either way, you are totally wrong about this being a "christian country"


Never once did i see a mention of Christ in the various documents of our foundation.
I see God mentioned sometimes (not as often as now) but strangely, no specific "god" is mentioned...

Being that "god" is a noun as well as a pronoun, who are you (TC particularly) to assume that it meant "Christian God"

the answer is simple, by the founding fathers statements, it isn't and never was meant to be...
the proof is a little known treaty with the Barbary pirates, but religion wasn't a issue in those years, until dealing with a religious state made it one (yes, the pirates were muslim).

This treaty states very clearly from the years around 1776-1780 the founding fathers IN NO WAY considered the united states to be a Christian nation, but of course, we can accept that it is a diestic one.
treaty with pirates- states USA not christian country!

So in my thinking, Christians are lucky to have gotten the attention that they have... they deserve none by the claim...
(they are also a special interest group that deserves NO favoritism)

[edit on 20-3-2006 by LazarusTheLong]



posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Intelearthling
You tell'em TC.


The Christians that founded this nation would be considered fanatical by todays standards when it was the norm at their time.


the truth is that our founding fathers were not all that religious at all. thomas jefferson died professing deism (sp.?) but was an atheist for most of his life.

george washington was an episcopal who did not activly participate in his so called "faith." he almost never went to church and only did at the insistence of his wife, martha (remember, he didn't marry her for love, he married her for her land holdings). he refused to take communion. never in any of his writings or speeches did he mention christ. he also went out of his way to hire athiests, quakers, and "mohametians,' the word for muslim in america at the time on his mt. vernon home. he also, in late 1775, banned the protestant celebration of the pope's day (a traditional mocking of the catholic leader) by the continental army.

for further proof that our nation is not as rooted or founded on christianity as many will lead you to believe please read the following:

ben franklin was so disstisfied with christianity (specifically the brand pedaled in america) that he abandoned it for self-meditiation.


Dissatisfied with the religion he met with in churches, Franklin conceived the idea of setting out on a personally conducted project of moral perfection. To do this he created a short list of the virtues and set up a weekly grid of those virtues (in the left hand column) and the days of the week (across the top). By self-reflection at night, he noted whether he had failed in the performance of a particular virtue that day, and, if he had, he made a demerit mark in the square for that virtue and that day. - hoad.ethicalmanifold.net...


john adams said the following to thomas jefferson in letters that he wrote in the second decade of the 1800's:


"We have now, it seems a National Bible Society, to propagate King James's Bible, through all Nations. Would it not be better, to apply these pious Subscriptions, to purify Christendom from the Corruptions of Christianity; than to propagate those Corruptions in europe Asia, Africa and America!" -- letter to Thomas Jefferson, 4 November 1816 - en.wikiquote.org...


and just so everyone gets this straight... LESS THAN TEN PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE LIVING IN AMERICA IN THE LATE 1700'S WERE MEMBERS OF A CHURCH!

most of the founding fathers were more devout to FREEMASONRY than christianity.

oh, and as for james madison (the framer of our constitution) had the following to say about christianity in 1785:


"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - www.borndigital.com...

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - www.skepticfiles.org...


a google search of madison brought me this quote from his letter to edward livingston, 10 July 1822:


"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." - en.thinkexist.com...


i forget the exact quote by thomas paine but he said he rejects judaism, christianity, and all other churches and professes the faith of his own mind and heart.

our constitution does not make a single mention of christ, god, or any omnipotent being.

furthermore, jefferson wrote:


"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." - www.nobeliefs.com...


our government was not rooted in any religion and any inference that says otherwise is reaching past our government and into the minds of the philosophers who procured the ideals on which our government was based (ie locke).

deny ignorance.



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 02:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by Intelearthling

The Christians that founded this nation would be considered fanatical by todays standards when it was the norm at their time.


That statement again???

I thought the majority of them were Deists???


This is George Washington's Proclamation establishing the first official Thanksgiving Day:

General Thanksgiving
By the PRESIDENT of the United States Of America
A PROCLAMATION


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;-- to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New-York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

(signed) G. Washington


Now, we can all argue whether or not old George was a Christian...but from reading this, he certainly was NOT a Dieist.


originally posted by enomus
our government was not rooted in any religion and any inference that says otherwise is reaching past our government and into the minds of the philosophers who procured the ideals on which our government was based (ie locke).


I wouldn't refer to the above document as "reaching into the mind" of George Washington. What he wrote was plain and simple. He believed in a God who's guiding hand did, now does, and always will, determine the course of this nation. He also believed in a God who rightly so is deserving of our obedience in exchange for our prosperity. This is "Religion 101" no matter to which denomination you belong.


Oh, one more thing: There is no mention of Christ, God, or an omnipotent being in the Constitution....BUT...there is in the Declaration Of Independence.


"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."


Now, this portion most definately says "Dieist". Compare it to this. It's from the United Dieist Church's official website.


I freely believe in God as being discovered through nature and reason, rejecting revealed religion and its authority over humanity. I believe that all humans are equal. Further, as God has not shown favor for one people over another and has given us all that we need, that we should follow God's example and give to others as we can.


So a Dieist is someone who defines God and his teachings NOT by scripture, but by reason and nature. A Dieist might not believe in the Bible, but he'll argue strongly with an Athiest over the existance of God.

What is it with some people who want to believe that not being a Christian Nation makes you a Secular Nation??

Can I ask one more question? Why don't you ever hear the Atheists arguing in The Synagogues and The Mosques??



[edit on 22-3-2006 by Toelint]



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 11:34 AM
link   
toelint, the fact that washington believed in god does little to argue the fact that this country was founded by christians or based on christianity, which was the main point i was arguing above. if you focus on the rest of the quotes from franklin, adams, madison and jefferson, i think you'll get a better idea of what some of our founding fathers thought of christianity and it's place in government.

[edit on 22-3-2006 by enomus]



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 12:08 PM
link   
Toelints thanksgiving article is absolute PROOF that the founders were generic diests, not specific Christians...
nowhere is "almighty god or creator" given a specific name or religion...

in fact, he goes out of his way to include "the god of ALL nations and all peoples"
well...
in truth... to believe in god, you have to beleive there is only 1 god, that serves all...

that most definatley is not a "Christian god" specifically...
regarding the diest Church definition of Diests... gives a general description, but
doesn't matter semantics... since they didn't have that official doctrine then...

boy... too bad people of today can't have that kind of understanding of God...
it would have prevented alot of deaths over the years.

also, just a little point to make...
he set aside ONE day of the year to respect a generic god...
that is truly how much effect he thought religion should have on America.

[edit on 22-3-2006 by LazarusTheLong]



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 12:18 PM
link   
Enomus, I'm sure I can still learn a lot from Franklin, Adams, Madison and Jefferson. However, those who argue against the U.S. being a Christian Nation today don't seem to offer an arguement in favor of Dieism. How come? Very simply, because they want a government devoid of God, which frankly, can't happen. More importantly, why would you want it to be? Aren't politicians crooked enough?

Lazerus, consider this one exerpt:


-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;--


Okay, Washington is not calling the Constitution scripture, but he sure seems to say that the ability to write such a thing is divinely given.

Okay, ONE LAST THING...

That little thing Presidents do while they get sworn into office? The hand on the Bible? That was started by Washington. And yes, it was his idea.



[edit on 22-3-2006 by Toelint]



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 02:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Toelint
Enomus, I'm sure I can still learn a lot from Franklin, Adams, Madison and Jefferson. However, those who argue against the U.S. being a Christian Nation today don't seem to offer an arguement in favor of Dieism. How come? Very simply, because they want a government devoid of God, which frankly, can't happen. More importantly, why would you want it to be? Aren't politicians crooked enough?



i wasn't arguing about the u.s. being a christian nation today. i was arguing that the u.s. didn't start that way, as some people in this thread would have us believe, nor was it intended to be a christian nation. this is the reason we're supposed to have a seperation of church and state, so the government doesn't endorse one religion over another.

i also don't understand your 'aren't politicians crooked enough' comment. are you implying politicians who claim to believe in god are less crooked than ones who don't?



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 02:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Enomus
i also don't understand your 'aren't politicians crooked enough' comment. are you implying politicians who claim to believe in god are less crooked than ones who don't?


No, I'm implying that those who Actually DO believe in God are less crooked than those who don't. There's a difference.

[edit on 22-3-2006 by Toelint]



posted on Mar, 22 2006 @ 05:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Toelint

Originally posted by Enomus
i also don't understand your 'aren't politicians crooked enough' comment. are you implying politicians who claim to believe in god are less crooked than ones who don't?


No, I'm implying that those who Actually DO believe in God are less crooked than those who don't. There's a difference.

[edit on 22-3-2006 by Toelint]


considering the high level of corruption and dishonesty in our government and politicians in general, and the fact that most of them profess a belief in god, i'd say your assumption above is naive at best. the simple belief in god does not ensure people will not lie, steal, cheat or worse. for further proof please reflect on the many priests currently serving time for molesting children.

the notion that atheists are more prone to corruption than non-atheists is factually baseless and borderline bigotry.

[edit on 22-3-2006 by enomus]



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 03:43 AM
link   
Well, in regard to the politicians, I'd say this: Some people will say anything to get elected. In regard to the priests who molest kids I'd say these priests fall into the same realm as soccer coachs, karate instructors, and school teachers who also molest kids.

Did they go into those fields to instruct...or to get closer to kids?



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 11:47 AM
link   
To those of you somewhat confused about the beliefs of our founding fathers and whether or not this nation was essentiall founded as a Christian nation, I reccomend a thorough reading of the following:
www.earlyamerica.com...

Additional reading can be found in two books (amongst many written on the subject) referenced in the following link:
links.jstor.org...

What I think you'll find after you read all of the above (if you do, or have) is that the principles upon which this nation was founded were indeed largely Christian principles. Many of our most influential founders were deists and freemasons--for those of you unfamiliar with freemasons, you need not be a christian to be one, but you must believe in a supreme being.

BTW, old G.W. was definitely a Deist. Do not get confused by the official pronouncements, proclomations and writings of some of our founders. Almost all of them wrote or endorsed official writings that went against their own personal beliefs. They were truely enlightened men who believed more strongly that it was important to have a united republic than just about anything else.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by Astronomer68]



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1   >>

log in

join