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WAR: Iraq knew and supported Al Qaeda pre 9/11

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posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 08:06 PM
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You're right Earlybird, there is such a thing as right & wrong and black & white, but when it comes to the actions & motivations of men and governments there isn't much of it. Things generally come down to choices we have to make about such things and very seldon is there only one correct choice or one incorrect choice. As a matter of historical perspective, even the optimum choices we are allowed to make generally have negative elements wrapped up within them.

One of the things I have heard repeatedly throughout my lifetime--usually coming from bright young men and women--is "Why can't things be simple (or simpler)"? Turns out that GOD has a HELL of a sense of humor and all we can do is pay our money and take our chances.

One of the things they tried to teach me in college, which I must tell you I resisted learning for years, is that the labels & descriptive terms of humans are relative things. Virtues are not universal and always good and vices are not universal either, or always bad. Good and evil are likewise relative terms we use. What may be exactly the right thing to do at one point in an unfolding chain of events may be exactly the wrong thing to do at another point. Etc., etc., etc..

[edit on 17-3-2006 by Astronomer68]




posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 09:29 PM
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Here's the official release sites for documents of Operation Iraqi Freedom:


Foreign Military Studies Office
Joint Reserve Intelligence Cente

Operation Iraqi Freedom Documents

At the request of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the US Army Foreign Military Studies Office has created this portal to provide the general public with access to unclassified documents and media captured during Operation Iraqi Freedom. The US Government has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available.

fmso.leavenworth.army.mil...

Other released documents can be found at:
www.ctc.usma.edu...

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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A closer look at the actual documents reveals this to be quadruple hearsay.


Our source in Afghanistan No 11002 (for information about him see attachment 1) provided us with information that that Afghani Consul Ahmad Dahestani (for information about him see attachment 2) told him the following:

1. That Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban in Afghanistan are in contact with Iraq and it that previously a group from Taliban and Osama Bin Laden group visited Iraq.

2. That America has proof that the government of Iraq and Osama Bin Laden group have shown cooperation to hit target within America.

More at Source


So... in a document the American Military supposedly found in Iraq an unnamed person supposedly from Afghanistan supposedly heard from another Afghan who supposedly heard from Bin Laden, and he supposedly told an intelligence agent in Iraq.

And this is blinding proof of a conspiracy?

Why can't I vote no for Stupidity?

[edit on 17-3-2006 by Malichai]



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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Well now...I have checked NPR...PBS...AP...UPI and Google news so far and have seen nothing about this at all....this homelandsecurity.com is a commerical (or political) venture as far as I can tell, will check the site. Will be interested if this is picked up by the media. If not who do we believe?



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Gools
The US started, funded and supported Al CIAda pre911 to fight the Russians in Afghanistan!

Bin Laden and subsequent events are what is termed "blowback".

Sucks eh?
.

[edit on 3/17/2006 by Gools]

'

This is nothing more than half truths and twists to reflect your view, the CIA aided the MUJAHEDEEN, not AL QAEDA...



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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Went to the site listed and this is what it says:

17 March 2006: An examination of newly released documents released at the direction of National Intelligence Director John Negroponte and uploaded to the US Army Foreign Military Studies Office website reveals that the Iraq government was aware of the presence of al Qaeda in their country. It also identified Abu Musab al Zarqawi by name and images. The ten-page document was described on the U.S. website as follows:

"Synopsis: 2002 Iraqi Intelligence Correspondence concerning the presence of al-Qaida Members in Iraq. Correspondence between IRS members on a suspicion, later confirmed, of the presence of an Al-Qaeda terrorist group. Moreover, it includes photos and names."

Another document released yesterday substantiated a pre-9/11 relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda terrorist operatives. The document, dated 15 September 2001, was written by a member of Iraq's special police to a commander concerning a pre-9/11 conversation between an Iraqi intelligence source and a Taliban Afghani diplomat. The document indicated that bin Laden and members of the Taliban were in contact with Iraq and had visited Baghdad prior to the attacks within the U.S.

If fully authenticated, these documents would firmly establish a connection between top Iraqi officials and top al Qaeda terrorists.

Now...two things...first "a connection between top Iraqi officals and top Al Qaeda terrorist" does not mean a connection between the Iraqi government and Al Qeada. I am not defending Hussien just pointing the difference out. second: if this were such an iron clad link as this post implies, don't you think Bush and Cheney would be all over the news shouting this to high heaven, especially with poll numbers in the mid 30's? I will play muaddib on this one something is fishy about it. If it is as true as the post makes it out to be why the silence?



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 10:21 PM
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By the way I am part of the anti bush crowd and I for one care more for the truth than bashing bush AND I don't vote down anybody because I disagree with them...that being said I have heard little in the way of truth coming out of bush, his administration or his supporters. And from the looks of the polls the majority of americans are beginning to think the same way so how connivent that these documents would be released now. what I said in the previous two postings still stand.



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by sensfan
I've gotten 4 u2u's so far from people who voted no. Don't know why.


The no votes usually tell you why. I think the corrections made by Valhall and FredT are probably why.



Originally posted by grover
Now...two things...first "a connection between top Iraqi officals and top Al Qaeda terrorist" does not mean a connection between the Iraqi government and Al Qeada. I am not defending Hussien just pointing the difference out.


Besides, the US Government had 'connections' with Bin Laden and Hussein in the past. Doesn't mean we had a good relationship. Doesn't mean we helped them carry out 9/11.



second: if this were such an iron clad link as this post implies, don't you think Bush and Cheney would be all over the news...


This is one thing that I'm suspicious about. It's too vague to really mean anything concrete.

Sadly, the media and the government have completely lost my trust, anyway. They could come out with the truth and I wouldn't trust it because they've been lying for so long now. I don't know what to believe anymore. I feel like ATS is the only place to get a decent view of both sides of an issue. All media outlets are biased one way or another.

After being lied to so many times, a person can become cynical.



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 11:50 PM
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Sears tower?
That will never happen....



posted on Mar, 17 2006 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Malichai
A closer look at the actual documents reveals this to be quadruple hearsay.



my thoughts exactly. if there were any substantial links between al queda and iraq i believe they would have found them sooner....like maybe before we pre-emptively invaded their country. i also think it's safe to say if these bombshell type connections held the smallest amount of weight they'd be running 90 minute specials about it on FOX 3 times a day by now.



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Disinfo works in many ways. One of them is just creation of tons of raw information that appears real, so that people get lost in finding "the truth", meanwhile the corruption goes on. It's like saying since there are tens of thousands of books on the JFK murder, that means we know the truth. For all we know it's just more smoke and mirrors. Why do we pay taxes, so we can translate intelligence for them and pay them for the privilege? If they can't cherry pick and consort with the media that went along with their story at the beginning, then what makes us think we will find something they have not already discounted, even if the documents are not a well orchestrated disinfo campaign? Early on in the beginning Rumsfeld announced that we need to orchestrate a successful massive propaganda campaign, to put disinfo out that would corroborate our beliefs even if it is not true. That in and of itself is a blanket admission from the top gun himself, that regardless whether we are right or wrong we will just spread misinformation so nobody is capable of knowing what we really know.

Rumsfeld Urges Using Media to Fight Terror




"Our enemies have skillfully adapted to fighting wars in today's media age, but for the most part we, our country, our government, has not," Rumsfeld said in remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. He said that while the al Qaeda terrorist network and other "extremist" movements "have successfully . . . poisoned the Muslim public's view of the West, we in the government have barely even begun to compete in reaching their audiences."





He also called for creating 24-hour media operations centers and "multifaceted media campaigns" using the Internet, blogs and satellite television that "will result in much less reliance on the traditional print press."


Also, you can head over to Wayne MAdsen Report for this....

www.rense.com...




Experienced case officers, area experts, and other seasoned agents are being purged and replaced by politicized personnel with primary loyalties to the Bush administration and the neo-con agenda.


Also, most intelligence can be easily neutered to conceal rather than reveal reality.....as in this case....Pakistan Weekly Spills 9/11 Beans

Also if you're bored with reading you can watch these fun psyops films....

Psy-Ops In Support Of Internal Defense & Development

Also one would have to wonder why there has been next to no release of all information pertaining to DU. Hey, I'm all for disclosure, maybe Frist might find the time to upload these training videos.

It also needs reminding that in Iraq, the military has been found to be spreading disinformation....


the U.S. military was "secretly paying Iraqi newspapers to publish stories written by American troops" and presenting them as "unbiased news accounts written and reported by independent journalists."


You can find this here

Anyways, for what it's worth I'll take a wait and see on this millions of prized documented untranslanted or read "intelligence".



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by grover
Now...two things...first "a connection between top Iraqi officals and top Al Qaeda terrorist" does not mean a connection between the Iraqi government and Al Qeada. I am not defending Hussien just pointing the difference out.


Besides, the US Government had 'connections' with Bin Laden and Hussein in the past. Doesn't mean we had a good relationship. Doesn't mean we helped them carry out 9/11.



I have to say I wouldn't bet the farm on this one..

Just look in the 9/11 area for more info.



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by df1

(submission
If this turns out to be fact...

Pinocchio has pug nose compared to the senior members of the bush white house. By now you should have learned that this administration will murder, torture, steal and cheat for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy patrons. Geez they've already told you that spreading propoganda is ok if its for national security reasons.


Please tell me that your not going to buy into this five year old propoganda.
.



Right df1.....and please do tell us once again that the information released by authorities of countries like Spain, Czech Republic, and other countries which also found links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, are also all lies and all made up by the U.S....

The link between Iraq and Al Qaeda has been known for a long time, such as the following information.


Ansar al-Islam (Supporters of Islam)
Jund al-Islam
Soldiers of God



General
Ansar al-Islam is a radical Kurdish Islamic group that is supportive of Saddam Hussein's regime. This group is located in the pseudo-autonomous Northern Iraq. This group has ties with Taliban and al-Qaeda. It is the most radical group operating in the Iraqi Kurdistan region.
..............
Additional Info
According to some reports, the group has received $600,000 from al-Qaeda, and a delivery of weapons and Toyota Land Cruisers. There are also reports stating that Ansar al-Islam received $35,000 from the Mukhabarat branch of Iraqi Intelligence Service, in addition to a considerable quantity of arms. The leader of Ansar al-Islam, Mullah Krekar has been captured in September of 2002.


Excerpted from.
iraqinews.com...

And if any of the naysayers would have even bothered to read the whole report from the 9/11 commission, or at least the part where it deals with Iraqi officers and Al Qaeda leaders meeting, they would have found links and meetings between Al Qaeda leaders and Iraqi officers.

What the 9/11 commission states is that they did not know if there was any decisions made in these meetings and they did not find any clear evidence that Iraq helped Al Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks.... which is a far cry from saying "there is no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda", which is what some of the news media, "erroneously",decided to report...

Hey but who cares right? keep believing the naysayers who will never change their minds nomatter what evidence comes out and who gives this evidence.


[edit on 18-3-2006 by Muaddib]


df1

posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
The link between Iraq and Al Qaedahas been known for a long time...

Just as the link to WMDs in Iraq was known for a long time. The bush white house bought or strong armed other government to confirm that crock of manure was true. We also have the Plame incident where links to a supposed iraqi nuclear purchase were forged with the complicity of other governments. The trail of white house lies, corruption and immorality is endless, yet you continue to rationalize their actions.



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 04:01 AM
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I have an open mind on this issue, despite not agreeing with the policies of the Bush Administration. However, I am very much interested in getting to the truth of the matter. What bugs me, though, is why was it printed in The Washington Post that no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda existed? Did the 9/11 Commission make a mistake? Reporters Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank wrote an in-depth article on this subject in the June 17, 2004 edition of the periodical on page A01:


The Iraq Connection Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed

The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.

Along with the contention that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials have often asserted that there were extensive ties between Hussein's government and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network; earlier this year, Cheney said evidence of a link was "overwhelming."

But the report of the commission's staff, based on its access to all relevant classified information, said that there had been contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no cooperation. In yesterday's hearing of the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, a senior FBI official and a senior CIA analyst concurred with the finding.

read more of the story here

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



However, if these documents truly exist and they reveal the ties that supposedly are there, then it would prove to be a revelation.

[edit on 18-3-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by df1
Just as the link to WMDs in Iraq was known for a long time. The bush white house bought or strong armed other government to confirm that crock of manure was true. We also have the Plame incident where links to a supposed iraqi nuclear purchase were forged with the complicity of other governments. The trail of white house lies, corruption and immorality is endless, yet you continue to rationalize their actions.


Right df1.... I think most people can see where the "crook of manure , and the trail of lies and deception comes from...." yet you df1, for your own political motives, try to rationalize every piece of evidence as "it must have been placed by the U.S. government...it must have been done by the U.S. government..."

I am sure, and by your own reckoning, the empty chemical shells and all the other evidence found in Iraq must have been either souvenirs and mementos that Saddam wanted to keep, or they "must have been placed by the U.S..." But of course, you cannot supply evidence to confirm that this is the case....or that authorities from other governments "are in on it with the United States"......


[edit on 18-3-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
I have an open mind on this issue, despite not agreeing with the policies of the Bush Administration. However, I am very much interested in getting to the truth of the matter. What bugs me, though, is why was it printed in The Washington Post that no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda existed? Did the 9/11 Commission make a mistake? Reporters Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank wrote an in-depth article on this subject in the June 17, 2004 edition of the periodical on page A01:
..............................


Ceci, you should do the research directly from the 9/11 Commission.

I have noticed that nomatter the news media, whether it is liberal, moderate or democrat, it is often the case that they follow each other's leads, and as they try to "be the first to print the story", or when they are not the first they hurry to catch up, they often times do not get the whole truth, or all the facts of the stories.

You can find references, links and excerpts, which other members and I have given in the past (a bit over a year now) in these forums.

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 04:31 AM
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Going back and reading the 2004 Senate Report on Pre-War Iraq Intelligence (careful before clicking- it's a 30mb pdf file, but anyone interested can skim to the parts that deal with Iraq and Al-Qaeda specifically), I've been unable to find how these new documents have (so far) revealed any information that was not previously known. There was, of course, a relationship between Iraq and Al-Qaeda just as there are relationships between most middle eastern nations and Al-Qaeda, there simply was no evidence that Iraq had a hand in planning 9/11 or that the relationship was substantial. The title of this thread is kind of misleading- show me the news!

I guess we'll have to wait and see what they contain. It's kind of worrying that we are outsourcing the translation effort to bloggers, I'd prefer to see some actual intelligence product rather than the claims of politicians who speak no arabic or third-party translators. I think we should get something a little better than a masive stack of untranslated documents before making any claims that go contrary to what we currently know. Didn't Saddam try giving us exactly that just a few years back, regarding his WMD program?



[edit on 18-3-2006 by koji_K]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 04:38 AM
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I'm sure you're right as an expert. I am going to read my copy of the 9/11 Commission Report and find out what they actually said. I am certainly fascinated by this link between Iraq and Al Qaeda, even though I've heard quite the contrary. And I've taken a look at the 9/11 archives of threads. With those topics, I will be sure to keep an open mind.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.



[edit on 18-3-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Mar, 18 2006 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib


And if any of the naysayers would have even bothered to read the whole report from the 9/11 commission, or at least the part where it deals with Iraqi officers and Al Qaeda leaders meeting, they would have found links and meetings between Al Qaeda leaders and Iraqi officers.

What the 9/11 commission states is that they did not know if there was any decisions made in these meetings and they did not find any clear evidence that Iraq helped Al Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks.... which is a far cry from saying "there is no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda", which is what some of the news media, "erroneously",decided to report...

Hey but who cares right? keep believing the naysayers who will never change their minds nomatter what evidence comes out and who gives this evidence.


[edit on 18-3-2006 by Muaddib]


Hey but who cares right? Keep believing the Bush supporters who never change their minds no matter what evidence comes out and who gives this evidence.

Two can play that game Muaddib.



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