Report on Chinese military buildup

NOT good.
To Taiwan and onward...

news.yahoo.com...

I like the way they said the defence spending in yuan to make it look larger

We need to help out our Taiwanese friends. The US should provide them with interceptor missiles and even mid range missiles if China doesn't stop building up and bullying Taiwan.

I wonder from what old small fraction of US military spending to what new and still small fraction of US military spending the Chinese are supposed to be "building up" to?

Talk about look the other way guys!

Unlike the Middle East the US government is using diplomacy to deal with the rise of China. If China gose to war with the west excluding Taiwain strong alliances will benfit everyone within Chinas reach.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice praised Australia's support for the war on terrorism.

After holding talks with Prime Minister John Howard and Cabinet's national security committee, Dr Rice told reporters Australia was "a steadfast friend".

I have no doubt that China will or would have been a talking point.
link

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I wonder from what old small fraction of US military spending to what new and still small fraction of US military spending the Chinese are supposed to be "building up" to?

Talk about look the other way guys!

They're building up their attack capabilities against Taiwan, and that's a problem because it is a change to the status quo.

I'd like to see what you would say if your country was in rage of 700+ missiles that could devastate your country.

In the 30' & 40' there was Germany ruled by the nazis, Italy by the fachist & Japan also ruled by fachist. Now we have China ruled by the communist. Quite simple. Why does some have so many problem to understand it ?

Current China isn't ruled by Communist, that's just their reputation to continue Mao's legacy in words.

Current China is a capitalist one party state more than anything.

Well, Chinese buildup of military isn't good for YOU, but you dont speak for all the posters here in ATS since im a Chinese myself living in Hong Kong. And i have NO problem at all of the build up

And no, 1900s Japan wasn't ruled by Fascist, it was ruled by Imperialists.

Originally posted by NuclearHead
I'd like to see what you would say if your country was in rage of 700+ missiles that could devastate your country.

- Er, well seeing as I live in the UK I already do live within range of far more than 700+ missiles with nuclear, chemical and biological warheads - and have done so for all my life - and that they most certainly could "devastate" my country I really don't see what you are getting at.
Welcome to the world as it is.

'We' sit on one side with our munitions and 'they' sit on their side with theirs.

I still say that talking about a "chinese build-up" is laughably ridiculous when compared to Bush's recent military build-up (some of which is either available to or actually went to and around that area, right?).

......or is it just (always) meant to be about 'them'?

Greetings Fellow Believers,

There is a strong Chinese presence in Panama. They moved right in after the United States left.

Why is this important? One, the Panama canal. Two, that there is pratically a straight-line march to the U.S. border.

I have no doubt that China will take Taiiwan. I suggest that those on Taiiwan who do not want lose their diminishing freedoms--find a way off Taiiwan and come to the United States.

first point:


i dont really think america has the right to ask china to explain itself considering how many black projects america has and the sheer amount of money america spends on its millitry which is almost more then the whole world combined and america never explains it self to anybody not even to the america civillains.

maybe america should explain its behaviour & intentions in the middle east for the last 60 years before it goes around pointing fingers at the behaviour or intentions of china.

also another point this news article seems to exagerate the increase alot its not actually that big of an increase considering the chinese millitry force has always been underfunded considering its sheer size.


second point :



seriously if americans actually cared about tiawan they would stop arming them becuase lets face the facts china is going to destory tiawns forces and this is a fact. they have 600-700 missiles now and about 1000-1200 ballistic missiles by 2012 aimed at taiwan and no matter how many pac-3 missiles you give to taiwan they will never be able to stop those missiles from hitting them. combined with the new ships,subs, IFV, APCs and tanks taiwan has abolsulty no chance best thing is too not arm taiwan and let tiawan get taken over fast and smoothly becuase if they get dragged into a war china will pulverise taiwan and the people of taiwan will suffer.
being under china will not be that bad for taiwan becuase china supports economic growth and science/education what america is doing is arming a group that has abolutly no chance of winning aginast china and this is not good.

persoanlyl i have a suspision that the reason america is arming taiwan is not for helping them becuase taiwan offers no real strategic strenght to america but becuase america wants to test certain technology against chinese technology so there giving it to taiwan to see how it holds up against chinese tech so they can optimise there own technology based on the results from the war.

I come from China myself, and now i am a Canadian citizen, but my family came to Canada for other reason, i have never gain or lose any "freedom" or "human rights"

all "freedom" or "human rights" problems the west has bring up for china is purely garbage, and brain washing propergandas, that's exactly what the governments here wanted the people to believe - to see china as an enemy and to thank their own countries for bringing them "freedom"!

I always wounder how come the people here in north america can be so easily fooled by the factitious storys made up by what is so called the human rights groups.

China isn't a communism country; it is almost purly run by chinese people's patriotism, and the chinese government wouldn't dare even try to disobey their people's wish,
because there are 1.3billion chinese citizens, and they can overthrow their government without lifting a finger.
that's why the chinese government emphizise so much on the country's stability.

and Taiwan and Japan are main two target for China's patriotism.

for Taiwan issue, 99.99%of the chinese citizen believed it to be a part of china, there for, the chinese government can only play along with their people' wish

If you guys go to any chinese military forum, you'll see how much they demand their government to take Taiwan by military force.

and for Japan, it's one of chinese people "classic enemy" during the last 600-1000 years, and probably will always be one.

and don't know if you guy know, one of the chinese general DID say they will use nuclear weapon on US if the US the Taiwan strait situation goes out of control because of the US' interference.

they know it better than anyone else that if they let the situation go out off control, the chinese people's patriotism will overthrow them, so they'll "sacrifice" the US along with them.....

u can even find this nuclear threat thing on CNN.com


PS. remeber this, to control 1.3billion people is nothing like to control 0.3billion people, and the western style "democracy" political structure don't always work depending on the background culture of the contry.
a system that is different from the western style is not necessarily a bad one.

i don't see a problem with this military build up; there will be a much bigger problem if there is no such build up.

[edit on 17-3-2006 by warset]

Did China sell a piece of land, now called Taiwan?
Did Somebody steal land from China, and call it Taiwan?
What is the story?

Originally posted by The Links
Did China sell a piece of land, now called Taiwan?
Did Somebody steal land from China, and call it Taiwan?
What is the story?

i think there was some sort of civil war and the chinese split into 2 groups one went to taiwan and one on the mainland(china) but from what i understand they are the same people. could somebody correct me please if im wrong.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by NuclearHead
I'd like to see what you would say if your country was in rage of 700+ missiles that could devastate your country.

- Er, well seeing as I live in the UK I already do live within range of far more than 700+ missiles with nuclear, chemical and biological warheads - and have done so for all my life - and that they most certainly could "devastate" my country I really don't see what you are getting at.
Welcome to the world as it is.

But if it was China and it was threatening to take your country by force, I don't think you would feel very confortable.

You seem to have forgotten what your ancestors went through during WWII when they were bombed by the German. Do you think they were cool with it?

Originally posted by NuclearHead
But if it was China and it was threatening to take your country by force, I don't think you would feel very confortable.

- Well I suppose it depends what you mean by "threat".

It strikes me as a military stand-off in many ways similar to what we in Europe had.
There are 2 heavily armed sides facing each other (but the 'western' side vastly outnumbers and 'out techs' the Chinese in this case).

In any event the distinction you draw isn't quite the one the indigenous people feel.
The Taiwanese for instance do not want to declare a final and formal independence from China and they certainly do not consider themselves a 'different people'.

You seem to have forgotten what your ancestors went through during WWII when they were bombed by the German. Do you think they were cool with it?

- I think you are attempting to shoe-horn this situation into matching an old one that it is nothing like.

===========================================================

Originally posted by iqonxi think there was some sort of civil war and the chinese split into 2 groups one went to taiwan and one on the mainland(china) but from what i understand they are the same people. could somebody correct me please if im wrong.

- As best as I can make out (and dispite the historical red herrings occasionally thrown up to prove how different Taiwan may have been at various points in history) it pretty much boils down to the Chinese communists won their civil war and the Chinese nationalists lost and fled to Taiwan in 1949.

The 'west' loves these petty divisions - especially when it comes to such a 'sleeping giant' as China - cos it thinks it keeps those concerned occupied on such matters.

Imagine if the confederacy had been able to survive the US civil war and establish itself (with outside help) in Florida and expected to be left as a disruptive pain in the @ss (and huge well armed strategic base for outsiders) to the rest of the USA.
It might well have gone on for 57yrs with the Chinese/Taiwan but I don't see that it would be tolerated for 5 minutes anywhere else.

Country profile: Taiwan

Taiwan is the island which has for all practical purposes been independent for half a century but which China regards as a renegade province that must be re-united with the mainland.

Legally, most nations - and the UN - acknowledge the position of the Chinese government that Taiwan is a province of China, and as a result Taiwan has formal diplomatic relations with only 25 countries and no seat at the UN.

news.bbc.co.uk...




[edit on 17-3-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by The Links
Did China sell a piece of land, now called Taiwan?
Did Somebody steal land from China, and call it Taiwan?
What is the story?

Actually, Taiwan used to be a Japanese colony (and I think this is somewhat ironic). When WWII had commenced, the allies handed Taiwan to the ROC (Republic of China) rule. Then, After the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) took over in 1949 due to the 'Chinese Civil War' they ousted the Nationalist Power who consequently sought refuge in Taiwan. Since then the PRC (People's Republic of China) claims Taiwan as national property.

Recently the Chinese refused to continue and broke off peaceful negotiations with the US regarding the issue, which fuels some speculation as to what may come next. The PRC has a good reputation for using strong force and any means necessary in order to keep the party in power. Hope that clears things up a bit.

Originally posted by Liquidus

Originally posted by The Links
Did China sell a piece of land, now called Taiwan?
Did Somebody steal land from China, and call it Taiwan?
What is the story?

Actually, Taiwan used to be a Japanese colony (and I think this is somewhat ironic). When WWII had commenced, the allies handed Taiwan to the ROC (Republic of China) rule. Then, After the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) took over in 1949 due to the 'Chinese Civil War' they ousted the Nationalist Power who consequently sought refuge in Taiwan. Since then the PRC (People's Republic of China) claims Taiwan as national property.

Recently the Chinese refused to continue and broke off peaceful negotiations with the US regarding the issue, which fuels some speculation as to what may come next. The PRC has a good reputation for using strong force and any means necessary in order to keep the party in power. Hope that clears things up a bit.

Taiwan has been part of China throught out most time of the history, but was captured by Japan at the end of China's Qing Dynasty.

As the fall of Qing Dynasty, China split into many army forces, fighting eachother trying to seek territories for themselves. The Nationalist Force was the official government of China at the time.

then WWII came, and Japan invaded China, the Soviet supported Chinese Communists and the US supported Nationalist joined force to fight against Axis Japan

WWII was over with Japan defeat, and Tawain was given back to China

now China has two strong Forces remain, the Nationalists and the Communists

backed by the international communism movement, the people in China supported to the Communist Force, and overthrow the Nationalist during the Chinese civil war after WWII

the Nationalists were pushed back untill their last territory -- the island that is farest off coast -- Taiwan

the China had a little sea power back then, and was unable to wipe out the last of the Nationalists


then the Cold war broke out, and the UN invaded N Korea, and China went for help, disregarding Taiwan

then the Taiwan situation went on unsolved until today



and Taiwan, regardless of whether it is an independent country, is not part of Japan!



[edit on 17-3-2006 by warset]

Originally posted by Liquidus
Recently the Chinese refused to continue and broke off peaceful negotiations with the US regarding the issue, which fuels some speculation as to what may come next.

negotiations with the US.? If you explain to me what your refering to ill tell you what is really happening