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How to Increase MPG


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reply posted on 3-6-2007 @ 09:03 PM by iluvhonda


crome is freeware developed my john cui, the parts modify to a stock obd1 honda ecu come out to 15 bucks, and that alows you to run custom programing.
and yeah it may not be cost effective for some. but i get an average of 31-32 mpg and can still run a very low 14 sec to high 13 second quarter mile

but another thing that can be looked into is more efficient fuel atomization (fuel injectors) something along the lines of the principal of direct injection, were the more fine the fuel mist is the less fuel you will need to use.



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 7-9-2007 @ 01:45 AM by john doh


reply to post by iluvhonda


yah mpg is great who kenw the government would be so afraid of our CO emmisions as to set a national goal arriving at the conclusion more control is needed. really! mpg is a recycling issue.
carry the CO and add nitro in a beaker get something usefull to carry the cost of recycling. we could get paid for burning alcohol or frier oil or other hazardous chemicals. let the fire department worry about environmental asphyxiation.



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 7-9-2007 @ 08:44 AM by donwhite

CAFE? Is That A New Bar or Something?

reply to post by john doh



Mr John Doh, I like your definition that MPG is a recycling issue! That is of course, the bottom line as we like to put it. Perhaps you don’t recall, but the recent history of the auto industry illustrates what could be done if we had national leadership that wanted to go in that direction. By the late 1950s, long before we knew or cared what the words “environment,” “global warming” or “climate change” really meant, the American automobile had came to symbolize both personal success and our love of personal mobility.

Until the 1950s, most American car makes were powered by 6 cylinder 3.5 to 4 liter flat head engines (side valves) of 6 or 6.5 to 1 compression ratios. Ford's V8s and Chevy's OHV excepted. Gasoline was 60-70 octane and that was reached by adding hefty doses of LEAD. When Phillips Petroleum began to use the nome de plume, “Phillips 66,” that was its octane rating they were boasting!

Then we indulged the horsepower race. It got so bad most auto writers said horsepower ratings came out of the advertising department and not out the engineering department. Slowly we paid attention to a few imports from Germany that used the DIN horsepower rating method versus our own SAE method by then considered unreliable. 70 horsepower in Germany was as “strong” as 100 horsepower in America.

By the 1970s, with the completion of 90% of our interstate highway system, Cadillac proudly came out with its largest ever engine first used in the El Dorado models but later installed across the board. A cast iron V8 behemoth of 500 cubic inch displacement - 8.2 liters in Euro speak. Neither Ford nor Chrysler ever matched it. It is still “King of the Hill” so to speak. Our most excessive excess. Ford came in second with its 460 cubic inches or 7.5 liters. Chrysler trailed with its own 440 cubic inches or 7.2 liters. All the other GM car lines topped out with 455 (Chevy 454) cubic inches. Compression ratios were pushing 11 to 1 and a few touched 12. 100+ octane gasoline was offered by Amoco - the marketing brand owned by Standard Oil of Indiana. Those were the halcyon days of big engines, big cars, big roads and cheap gasoline! God Bless America! Land of the Free and Home of the Brave!

Smog. A new word - acronym - made up of “smoke” and “fog.” By the 1970s it had become a real health and safety issue in too many American cities. We had “smog alerts” and “smog days” when driving was restricted. We had a hint of what was to come when the Federal government required catalytic converters, exhaust gas returns - EGR - and positive crankcase ventilation - PCV - on our cars so that noxious fumes formerly vented into the atmosphere were now returned to the engine for more complete burring before going out the exhaust pipe where the catalytic converters cut the CO output significantly. But we were still ignoring CO2.

A sea change. The Yom Kippur War. The early 1970s. Egypt invaded its own Sinai Peninsula captured earlier by Israel in 1967. For the first time, Israel’s much vaunted intel service, the Mossad, had failed to warn Israeli leaders of Egyptian intentions. It was 2 weeks before Israel could respond militarily. Finally Israel began to turn back the Egyptian Army and the Arab states in the Middle East invented OPEC. Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. Who says wars do not have long term consequences?

In order to put pressure on the US, then as now Israel’s chief supporter, OPEC declared an oil exporting embargo. It was in 1973 running over into 1974 when Americans for the only time after World War Two, we lined up for gasoline. We did not like it then and we would not like it now. You can put it down the memory of those gasoline shortages (and out of sight prices) were most likely the cause behind Jimmy Carter's upsetting of Gerald Ford for the 1976 presidency. Or at least equal in effect to Ford's controversial pardon of President Nixon.

Peak Oil. It had been in the 1960s when the United States, once a major oil exporting country, saw its domestic demand exceed it own production capacity. We had become a NET oil importer. The Peak Oil theory in real life. For example, in 2007, we use about 20 mbd. Million barrels per day. Domestically we produce less than 7 mbd so that we must import 13+ mbd.

Realizing how vulnerable America was to foreign oil producers, Congress tried to provide us with some protection by instituting the CAFÉ. Corporate Average Fuel Economy. In the 1970s car buyers were willing to accept 8-12 mpg on their 5,000 pounds Buick Roadmaster Limited sedans. A 455 cubic inch - 7.4 liters - engine of 375 hp, gave 0-60 times in the higher single digits, 8 or 9 seconds. Top speed was not the objective, but the cars would often run 120-130 mph. BUT car tires were made for 90 mph.

At first the CAFÉ was set at 22 mpg and car manufacturers were allowed 6 years to reach that modest goal. Some people had always bought cars for economy but the accessory loaded, glitzy models were where the big profits were to be made. There was never any concerted effort by car companies to sell more economical cars. Volkswagen excepted.

During the 1980s, American cars were DOWNSIZED and almost all the mid-line models came with a 4 cylinder option. 2.1 to 2.4 liters. But who wants to buy an expensive fully loaded 4 door sedan powered by an engine barely capable of 0-60 in the high teens and topping out at about 80 mph? Assuming a favorable wind. Even if it does get 23-25 mpg? As the memory of the embargo faded, and gas prices fell so did the desire to have a car featuring good gas mileage, especially it meant buying a smaller car.

The mid 1980s showed what we can do, what we could do again if we either wanted to or had governmental programs and leaders who encouraged such pro-green decisions by car buyers. But we have neither. In fact, the 1990s witnessed the most outrageous expansion of big size, big engine, and fast cars - 0 to 60 under 10 seconds de rigueur - and top speed around 130 mph - ever in the history of man, for sure since the invention of the 2 horse chariot.

The CAFÉ ought to be raised at once to 30 mpg, and made applicable across the corporate line. It should then be raised in predetermined steps until it is at 50 mpg. When that happens you will know your government is serious about green house gasses. Global warming. Climate change. Environmental conservation. Before then however, it is all “smoke and mirrors.” Enjoy!

[edit on 9/7/2007 by donwhite]



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 10-9-2007 @ 12:18 AM by john doh


reply to post by donwhite


recycling is a singularly enconomics issue. noone would ration war matereal in peacetime so recycling was born...maybe. My point was when they talk about stockpiles diminishing, it's time to listen.

I recycle regularly (oregon has a great recycling program) and run biodeisel(frier oil) in a vw truck, fuel mileage slightly higher, price is too, but you can make it in a bathtub. the price of ether keeps it less economical than regular deisel, low sulfer emissions though. It smells like a big boy burger going down the road. (no problem with horsepower though)



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reply posted on 28-4-2008 @ 09:34 PM by justinlc27


I actually took my spring break to try and find ways to improve the mpg of my truck and I wrote about it on a blog @ greenergas.blogspot.com... I hope some of the information is helpful, it was a really fun side project and I think a lot of people could use it to their advantage.

Cheers,
Justin



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 29-4-2008 @ 03:32 PM by donwhite

Stop Boy! Don't Put That Water in My Radiator, Put It In My Gas Tank!

reply to post by justinlc27




it was a really fun side project and I think a lot of people could use it to their advantage.



"Beam me up Scottie!"

Back to Earth. Perpetual Motion? Alchemists and plain dabblers sought that for 1000s of years. Every once in a while someone thinks they have found it! But alas, the law of conservation of energy takes over. It states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. Perpetual motion machines violate the first law of thermodynamics and the second law of thermodynamics, or both.

I aver there is NOT enough hydrogen in the glass jar to run a .49 cc McCoy Redhead 2 stroke model airplane engine more than a few seconds. IF at all. And enough in the jar to move a car? No way.

Sir Isaac Newton proclaimed the 3 laws of motion. Two have application here. Law 1. A physical body will remain at rest . . unless an outside net force acts upon it. Law 2. Rate of change of momentum is proportional to the resultant force producing it and takes place in the direction of that force.

The website your link took me to did NOT state the price for the device they are selling to run cars on hydrogen gas. I've seen this device in J C Whitney catalogs 30 years ago. This reminds me most of the cold fusion first reported by Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons from the University of Utah in 1989. CF is a controversial effect reported by some researchers to have been produced at conditions near room temperature and atmospheric pressure. WRONG.

Guiding Adage: You cannot get something for nothing.

[edit on 4/29/2008 by donwhite]



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reply posted on 21-5-2008 @ 02:08 AM by Anonymous ATS


Love the thread.

I personally am against biofuel because of the recent food shortages and high cost of rice and corn. It takes approximately an acre of corn to produce 1 gallon of fuel, from what I have heard. I'd rather see the Fuel Cell be developed for every industry possible, including IT.

2 years ago we bought a Mercury Monterey - a minivan with the WORST gas mileage ever. I have spent the past few days driving slower while all the Fast and Furious wannabies whip around me, and all the cowboys come steaming up on my bumber in their giantic pickup trucks and go roaring past me when they see an opening. I have improved my mileage by 2.5 mpg just by driving the speed limit. Secretly, I laugh at them. Is that wrong?



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reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 12:10 AM by Anonymous ATS


try Lucas gas treatment,,, cost 8 cents to treat a gallon and increases my gas mileage by 3 miles per gallon,, from 16 to 19 mpg,, tested it over 2 months on the same 700 mile trip from carson nevada to idaho falls going 75 miles per hour with cruise control... saving about 23.25 dollars per one way trip..02 chevy 1500 4wd silverado.



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reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 03:42 AM by pieman


"i've got a 4.5ltr pickup truck and i want to improove the gas milage"

give me a break, why in the heck would anyone use gas to run a truck. gas engines are good for low torque high bhp applications, diesel is good for high torque low bhp applications, if you insist on driving a brick on wheels, use a diesel engine and you'll have great mpg, simple. if the engine has forced induction it you should even get an improvement in performance over gas. the rest of the world figured this out ten years ago.

other than that, americans have few options, your fuel is pretty low grade so tuning the ecu won't help a whole lot. changing gear at around 1500-2000 revs will help, but not a huge ammount.



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reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 10:43 AM by donwhite

Higher Gas Mileage? There Is NO Silver Bullet!

reply to post by pieman




"I’ve got a 4.5 ltr pickup truck and I want to improve the gas milage"



Sell it and buy a 1.4 or 1.6 liter car. I don’t know the engine size for the smallest p/u offered in the US, but remember you have to fill whatever engine you have once every 2 revolutions. 4 cycle. The most important single factor in using fuel efficiently is the compression ratio of the individual engine. This is a FIXED value and you can’t change it as cheaply as you can buy a new vehicle.

Manufacturers have already tried to make your vehicle as efficient as they can in the constraints they must operate under. I think emission controls - which also raises gas mileage - costs $3,000 per vehicle. Efficiency and economy are two sides of the same coin.

Unfortunately, trying to RAISE the gas mileage of an existing vehicle is like the knights of old hunting for the Holy Grail. There ain’t none.

The following are common sense ways to cut the cost of driving.
1) reduce idle time
2) accelerate slowly
3) try to drive 5 mph below the posted speed limit - but not on interstate highways.
4) decelerate slowly
5) change air filters 1 time each year or every 12-15,000 miles
6) unload you trunk and car. It takes fuel to overcome inertia.
7) try to plan your usage to achieve maximum efficiency
8) check tire pressures; you can safely raise pressures to 35 psi
9) check brakes to be sure you are not “dragging” a brake. You need to raise your car and rotate each wheel independently.
10) fill up in the morning. Some people think this helps.

If your Owner’s Manual allows, use 87 octane rated gasoline.



give me a break, why in the heck would anyone use gas to run a truck. gas engines are good for low torque high bhp applications, diesel is good for high torque low bhp applications, the rest of the world figured this out ten years ago. other than that, Americans have few options, your fuel is pretty low grade so tuning the ecu won't help a whole lot. changing gear at around 1500-2000 revs will help, but not a huge amount.



American refineries are not easy to alter. The current setting is about 80/20 In favor of gasoline over diesel. If gasoline usage declines - as I hear it is - then a shift to 70/30 will bring some relief to all of us as we pay the price for truckers whatever it is in the goods we buy.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing the effect diesel prices have on consumers. You need to know what part of the retail cost of the goods you use is due to the price of fuel used in the delivering system? Let’s hypothesize that the price of milk is 2% due to the cost of fuel in the delivery system. On that basis, if the cost of diesel goes from $3 to $6, doubles, then the pass-through cost of fuel in milk would become 4% making $3.99 milk old style become $4.07 new style! 3.99 X 1.02. Not good, but not the end of the world either. Watch out for price gouging “justified” or blamed on higher fuels costs.

[edit on 5/26/2008 by donwhite]



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 3-6-2008 @ 04:27 PM by Anonymous ATS


reply to post by Beachcoma


Sorry no. The temperature in the underground storage tanks remains pretty constant. It really doesn't matter when you fill up, a gallon is still a gallon.



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 14-6-2008 @ 02:24 PM by donwhite

Under the Hood of the First Real Fuel-Cell Car (by Honda)

reply to post by iluvhonda




crome is freeware developed my john cui, the parts modify to a stock obd1 honda ecu come out to 15 bucks, and that alows you to run custom programing. and yeah it may not be cost effective for some. but i get an average of 31-32 mpg and can still run a very low 14 sec to high 13 second quarter mile . .



Well, you can't do both at the same time, can you? I mean it takes a heavy foot to break 13 sec in s standing quarter mile. OTOH it takes a very light foot to bust the 30 mpg barrier on the good side. Open, straight roads, light traffic, and a very steady 60 mph will help a lot.

But here's a look at the Honda future car . . .



Under the Hood of the First Real Fuel-Cell Car by Bryn Nelson

You could drink the exhaust of the Honda FCX Clarity. The four-door sedan - the first hydrogen fuel-cell car available to the general public - emits only water. Powered by the electricity generated when hydrogen and oxygen combine to form H2O and with upholstery fabric made of fermented corn, the Clarity sure sounds green. But is it the “zero-emission sedan of the future,” as Honda claims?

Not yet. Most hydrogen fuel is derived from natural gas
in a process that releases plenty of carbon dioxide, so the car and its 134-horsepower electric motor fall short of being footprint-free. Still, fueling a vehicle like the Clarity emits less than half the CO2 released by its gas-guzzling counterparts for a given distance, says John Turner of the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado. The Clarity’s fuel efficiency equivalent of 68 miles per gallon clobbers even the feel-good 48 mpg of the Toyota Prius, and the car can go 270 miles on a $20 tank.

Just don’t plan on taking it cross-country anytime soon. Honda begins leasing the Clarity this summer ($600 a month, with limited availability) in Santa Monica, Irvine, and Torrance, three Southern California communities with rare access to hydrogen fueling stations. The company is working toward a greener, more abundant hydrogen supply line; a research station at its R&D headquarters turns water into fuel using solar power. The downside? It refuels only one Clarity a day.
Discover Magazine for July, 06.08.2008
discovermagazine.com...



[edit on 6/14/2008 by donwhite]



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reply posted on 22-6-2008 @ 06:50 PM by Anonymous ATS


The temperature in an underground storage on average changes about 5 -7 degrees from 5am to 9pm on 95 degee day in Oklahoma. There's roughly 3" less in the storage tank at 9. I don't know how this equates to what's filled in your car, but those are the numbers from the station I manage.

There is a more practical reason to fill up in the morning. Again, my frame of reference in Oklahoma heat. In the morning I can drive to work without AC, so I make as many errands as possible when I don't have Ac running. Make only the essential trips when the temp is high and you need the AC. (detramental to the dating life to show up for a dinner at a girls house after riding without ac)

reply to post by donwhite




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