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posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin

"All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols— worship him, all you gods!"


Is a giant representation of Jesus being Crucified on the cross at the front of all churches not an image/idol? What about images of The Last Supper, Portraits that represent Jesus, etc?


If these images are worshiped as gods then I believe the answer is "yes".


Originally posted by Yarcofin
If you're like most Christians, you probably have a cross around your neck made of gold or silver.


For advertisement only, yes. If the world were believers it'd be unnecessary.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
It seems to me that a lot of people worship their golden cross a lot more than they do God himself.


This is a big problem then. You and I should both point out the err in this when we encounter it.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
They hold the cross whenever they are praying or in distress, etc.


What are they praying to? What are the worshipping? Yes, holding the cross is unnecesarry.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
If you recall the problem with the Mohammed cartoons, it was because Islam forbids making their God into an idol in any way. But for some reason although Christianity also forbids this, Christians have no problem showing off their little gold cross idols for all the world to see.


Nobody worships the cross I wear. If they do, they haven't made it known to me. As you've pointed out as well, the Bible makes clear not to worship objects.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Personally I think Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam are all really the same Gods. Christianity is just an update of Judiasm (Old Testament + New, Believe in Jesus to be Son of God). And Islam is an update of Christianity (Old+New Testament+Koran, Jesus was just a prophet but they believe in him, Mohammed is the son of God). I'm sure another one is bound to come along soon too.


There's a problem with that though according to what Jesus (and God) has said.



Originally posted by Yarcofin
If it will make you feel better, I'll mentally yell at God tonight before I go to bed, ask him why he's making it so damn hard to believe in him, etc.


That's an awesome start. It would make me feel better, but only because I feel it would help you get the answer.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
But then aren't I sinning by questioning God?


Uh, not that I'm aware of. I've never seen it written, "thou shall not ask me questions nor ever get frustrated". In fact, many do in the Bible and many get their answers. I was frustrated with God, He did not smite me where I stood. I ask Him questions all the time. I can assure you asking it safe.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
But I'm also sinning if I don't do it.


*shrugs* Not sure about that one but a good point. Hadn't really thought about it that way before.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
AHHH. Religious paradoxes.


Nah, no paradox here.

It is getting late for both of us though, go a. and post your next one, we'll go to bed and I'll respond tomorrow. Good night friend.

[edit on 23-3-2006 by saint4God]




posted on Mar, 23 2006 @ 11:29 PM
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I wish I could believe in a God. Seriously, I would love to be sure there was an afterlife and whatnot. But I think taking University level Grade 12 Biology and learning all about evolution, etc has ruled that out pretty much. Combined with studying all the other religions of the world, I just don't see how I could possibly settle back into Christianity again. About the only unexplainable thing that I could attribute to God would be the creation of the universe in the Big Bang, etc, since obviously you can't get something from nothing (except in quantam physics.)

Going to bed now. Sorry to fight with you. Sweet dreams =).

If God gives me any messages, I'll be sure to pass them on. But I swear man, it's not gonna happen.


[edit on 23-3-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Maybe we should have a "pray off" competition.


The competition between devout bible quoters and christians/believers in God who simply want peace - this goes on all the time here at ATS and many other places, unfortunately.

I completely agree with you, whaaa. It is VERY sad that acceptance of others isn't written word for word in the bible.....oh wait.....I bet it is!

No doubt the bible quoters won't put it up here for all to see though, its a case of selective quoting


Let the thread die a natural death I say. Its just turned into a joke, like so many others.

Signing off from this thread. Have fun peeps.



(Mod edit: You guessed it. Quotes. No hard feelings. It's just getting a bit quotey is all.)


Mod Edit: Guidelines For Quotes

[edit on 3/24/2006 by Majic]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 03:15 AM
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Yes I think its a great idea...count me in. When and where?

Ermm...my pc was down for a few days, so I missed out on the progression of this thread. I just now noticed it and starting reading the first part, and wanted to be part of this attempt. Then I started reading back on some of the latter posts, and now I'm starting to feel like I came to the party a day late, and a dollar short. Par for the course!

I'm still game though I don't want to be part of any religious wars. It's the spirit of the thing that matters. My logic is...If you are a person no matter what religion who seeks positive good energy in the world, then you must be of good energy.

I have not read back on all of the posts and if this positive thought sending endevour has already happened, or is not going to happen...no matter. We can all send good thoughts individually at any time for a better world.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by DeeplyAwake]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 03:27 AM
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You cannot pray for misfortune to come to scientists ... the idea is good... but meditation is more effective if you wish to impact those who are not learned, pray by yourself, don't make a show of it... meditate and join the peace and tranquility that is already there join the christ conciousness... the king of love. Wishing harm or a halt in any production of anyone is a useless task, ALL are ONE, simply accept, love and teach your fellow brother, become interested in his sin, learn of it so you can teach them better, you must absorb their mind to over-come the state of conciousness, love always prevails.

Your idea is a fruitful one, yet instead of making one date to have this occur why don't you simply create a group of individuals who will meditate for 30 minutes upon waking, 30 minutes before dinner and 30 minutes before bed... and have them do this for a month, and have them influence others to attempt the same results..

do not attempt to still your mind, do not attempt to think certain thoughts when meditating simply allow your thoughts to manifest themselves and exhaust themselves... study your thoughts, study your though processes, through education comes change, through change come newer elevated thoughts.

I hope what I've said makes some sense to you.



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 04:03 AM
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aa, I think you were the one that originally called for all ATS members to
quote "connect around the world, and then a mass mind bomb of love energy etc" lol heck, you even suggest a "spell"....oooohhhh my how satanic!


yes, but like, a spell, it is all how you interprete it. I could've burnt some incense and lighted some candles with the words, Lord, or creator gives us that we truly need. therefore it isn't satanic, not? I guess that what you wish for makes it black or white 'magic', and even then, motives people, that what truly drives you! I do make mistakes. I to am pushed facts under my nose!


Not once, is god mentioned in your original post. Can't change the rules half way through, or maybe things change to suit your mood? I dunno.

well, who would I've meant else? Who gives a just answer back? Who makes it possible for our prayers to be put in progress? Or better, what? IT is God's nature..

I think there are just too many people who haven't truly found that which they should put the name God upon? I could even name him tinkerbell.. but that would at least change my perspective on him a bit. The energies that be are Gods, He just multiplies the effects and send them back on you, or at least gives one a just reaction back, so to learn from the mistake or that job well done.



Hey, not that I really mind, I pray a lot and have nothing against prayer.
Just trying to be open-minded for ALL members here at ATS to be included, without prejudice - just like Jesus supposedly taught. Funny that the same lack of prejudice can't be applied by the thread starter, it seems.

For all my mistakes, forgive me!


[edit on 23-3-2006 by sanse_nz]

[edit on 24-3-2006 by alienaddicted]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
...Who was that again? Mohammed? Lots of religions have Gods who sent their son. Were we praying to Allah? Maybe Brahman? No... obviously you are referring to Jesus and Jehovah/Yahweh of the Old Testament.

Allah.. Brahman, YHWH like different people might have given different names to the same one?


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Contridictions from AA's Original Intent to now:
*Wanted to attack Area 51 with prayers. Very un-Christian-like.
*Wanted to pray for a wife before I talked him out of it. Hmm... what does God say about testing him again?

My motive for area 51 were that of just removing that piece of evil facility of the earth. might be just one of my wishes, we don't need such hypocryt bases here, were humans might be abused and wicked mind control test can be done. But there might also have been hate into this. I get judged.

And the wife thing, darn, what would be the problem with asking for someone to love closely, a partner for life? To share my wisdom with or to do the dirty laundry for?


Originally posted by Yarcofin
I dunno, sounds pretty pagan to me.

just expressing myself in a kind of poetryish way.. pagan.. pagan.. it is not that same language was used by.. pagans, that I am one, hey might have been one in a past experience, leftovers man, maybe a mistake I did over cause haven't learned yet.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
In your latest post you mock someone for talking about the same 'positive energies' you made prayers about a few pages earlier:

how do you now we have a same perspective on positive energies? He might as well have given this name to Satan.









(Mod diatribe: Corrected nested quoting and quote overruns. Please be sure to preview your posts and make sure all is well before submitting them. Note that nested quotes are warnable, as are quote overruns, but moderators are allowed to use discretion, and I don't want to give out warnings for honest mistakes. Remember to single out the specific words you are responding to. Be sparing with quotes. Also, I know it looks like I'm really going to town on this thread, but I'm not dinging points, just trying to help out with some examples. As always, U2U me if you have any questions or concerns. Truly, my goal is to help my fellow members. --Majic)

Mod Edit: Guidelines For Quotes

[edit on 3/24/2006 by Majic]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
The dude's like an overpossessive boyfriend with serious anger issues. But that's just my interpretation.

whas that on me; well, thank you for labeling me again. I just wait to notice your anger issuess. Nothing you want to tear apart on this earth? maybe I just look outside too much and have gotten my . to far into this mess, I guess I just retreat inward again and keep everything inside for it to tear me down. Good suggestion.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Saying you won because God favours you is like saying you won because of your lucky underwear. Let's not sink back to the level of using God as a superstitious 'good luck charm'.

good luck charm, hahah, mock with him, good luck will be given thee.. say everyday you worship satan as you mean it, then take a look at yourself at that that goes inside, and watch your surroundings change.. at least, if you weren't allready idolising him. Otherwise you wouldn't even notice how this prince might take you a step further, into his underwold.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by alienaddicted]





(Mod edit: Excessive quotes, nested quotes, quote overruns. See above, and please don't take any of this the wrong way.)


Mod Edit: Guidelines For Quotes

[edit on 3/24/2006 by Majic]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
Combined with studying all the other religions of the world, I just don't see how I could possibly settle back into Christianity again.

studying religions is studying religions. You may study as much as you will, as long as you don't mirror things on yourself and your surroundings, no much will be learnt. You may have as much knowledge of what it says as you like, when you don't harness the wellbeing of it you ain't going nowhere with your faith.





(Mod edit: Excessive quote. Honest, I'm not trying to pick on you.)


Mod Edit: Guidelines For Quotes


[edit on 3/24/2006 by Majic]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 06:35 AM
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Quote Note

Sorry, not on topic. I just wanted to make sure no one gets the wrong idea about my edit-fest in this thread. I know quoting rules are not universally enforced. That's not because we're lazy, we're just busy. There's a lot of threads to go through, and admittedly, we can't go through all of them.

With a new crop of mods, it's tradition to see a zealous new wave of T&C enforcement. I don't see this as a "crackdown", though. It's not like that.

I haven't handed out a single quote warn yet (i.e. the kind that cost points), just edits and links. I don't want to warn people for honest mistakes, or come off as petty and heavy-handed.

I'm a fellow member first, and a moderator second. I want to help you honor the T&C, not sling warns like Rambo.


The quote policy might seem overly picky to some, but it's an important part of keeping ATS readable and accessible to members. We all do a lot of reading around here, so it's never a bad idea to make it easier on each other.

In any case where I edit your post, I am very sensitive to not changing your wording or intent (unless they specifically violate the T&C, and I'll tell you why, if I do).

However, any time I have to go in and edit one of your posts, there's still a risk I may.

The best way to prevent that is to make editing them unnecessary.


Remember: I'm on your side.


Now, about the topic...

Smells Like Christian Spirit

I know there are differing views about whether Christianity is a form of "spiritualism" or not, and that's a reasonable topic for debate.

My personal view is that it is. Christians tend to be very spiritual, and God bless them for that.

However, this is the Paranormal Studies forum, which is geared toward the "paranormal".

Opinions reasonably differ on what that may be, and there's a lot of latitude on that, but a good rule of thumb is that we should try to avoid dwelling too much on topics that are heavily discussed in other forums, like Faith, Spirituality & Theology.

It's (literally) debatable whether this thread belongs there or not. However, to the extent the thread focuses on the topic of organizing some sort of paranormal effort (i.e., coordinated group meditation in the interest of causing an effect of some kind), I think it belongs here.

If we're talking about more of a general spiritual initiative, then FS&T is a more suitable location.

In any case, moving a thread is not some sort of indictment on the merits of a thread. It's just a way of helping to keep topics organized for easier access. If any thread gets moved, I beg you not to take it personally. It never is.

I'll leave it up to my fellow members to decide where they want the discussion to go.

Also, I urge all members to have respect for each other's differing beliefs.

We are all brothers and sisters in all the ways that matter.

May Love and Light mark your path.



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 08:55 AM
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I don't know where the idea comes that in order for there to be division there MUST be war. By every rights then we should be at war with allied countries because they're under different leadership. Also, do you declare war on your local church if you do not practice their belief? Does your local church declare war on you for not practicing their beliefs? The only war that's going on here is spiritual. There is the Medic and those who don't want treatment. This is not my "battle" though.

2 Corinthians 6:17

"Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."


[edit on 24-3-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
I wish I could believe in a God. Seriously, I would love to be sure there was an afterlife and whatnot.


You can. Please reply to the U2U from 3/19. It does have a lot of illustrations, but will all pull together soon. There's a question in there that's important and am looking forward to an answer.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
But I think taking University level Grade 12 Biology and learning all about evolution, etc has ruled that out pretty much. Combined with studying all the other religions of the world, I just don't see how I could possibly settle back into Christianity again. About the only unexplainable thing that I could attribute to God would be the creation of the universe in the Big Bang, etc, since obviously you can't get something from nothing (except in quantam physics.)


Never stop learning, but keep in mind, that people have an agenda. Each of us has a motivation behind what we do. I have one and will freely speak it. I took 4 years of biology in college. My job market area was next to dead for biology jobs and got one in finance since that's where my area was geared, but I LOVED learning about genetics. It's very, very complex. I'd even say that at times Genetics and Ecology are in conflict with one another. That's an unpopular thought, but I don't think they've "worked out the bugs" in science yet, which is one reason why it's a fascinating study.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Going to bed now. Sorry to fight with you. Sweet dreams =).


S'all good! I'd rather hear what's on your mind then for someone to sit in silent resentment. If we were to meet each other in person for the first time, I seriously doubt our conversation would go like this. We can speak freely quicker here. Some friends it has taken months to have a deep conversation. Some friends I've had for years and have still been unable to even talk about this kind of thing.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
If God gives me any messages, I'll be sure to pass them on.


Awesome!


Originally posted by Yarcofin
But I swear man, it's not gonna happen.


Well, you just shot yourself in the foot here. I doubt you'll get anything either then. Nevertheless, I'll advocate the best I can for you. I'm sure there were plenty of times God was trying to tell me something but I wasn't listening.


[edit on 24-3-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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I personally think this thread belongs in Faith & Spirituality, since the whole premise of this thread is PRAYER. It's not like we are using a 'psychic power' to affect the world, it is direct religious faith. The 50 Year Old father bleeds from hands and foot thread got moved from Paranormal to BTS, and I think that thread had more merit to be in the Paranormal forum than this one does.

I'll share my experience from last night later, right now I have to go out for a bit.



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
I'll share my experience from last night later, right now I have to go out for a bit.


Yeah? Now that I'd be interested in hearing!



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 11:04 AM
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Okay so last night I went to bed at about 12:50. I laid down and said The Lord's Prayer three times, and made the sign of the cross on myself three times while doing it. Then I prayed about what we talked about, about wanting to believe but not being able to, wanting to be given proof/a sign etc. I emphatically called in the name of the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and in the name of the Holy Spirit. I prayed for about ten minutes, but I don't remember much more detail. But anyways, at the exact moment I said "Amen", the clock downstairs chimed/tolled once, for 1 am. I wasn't watching the clock, I had my eyes closed the whole time so there is no way that I was keeping track of the time, etc. Just sort of weird that it happened immediately, like "Amen" *DINGGGGGGGGGG*. Haha. It was like "Your prayers have been answered".

Nice little coincidence, but I don't know if it totally convinces me. I asked for something a bit bigger, something undeniable. But I have yet to get some big booming God voice talking to me directly, not even mention of God from a family member or a Bible randomly showing up on the kitchen table when I walked downstairs in the morning (I expected that one to be a sign that would have shown up). There was some snow flurries when I opened up my window this morning and I thought "New beginnings", but there is really nothing too odd about snow on an early spring morning in Canada.

Anyway, there is my story and the one little "sign" of coincedence that appeared in my life as I was talking to (yelling at) God. But it's going to take more than that for me to believe again.

And now the phone started ringing as soon as I typed that.
Slightly freaked out, but still not believing. And I'm not answering that phone either
.

Edit: As soon as I hit the Submit Post button, it stopped.

Am I looking for signs in something that isn't really there? I'll keep my eyes peeled and relay back if there are any more weird 'coincedences' anyways.

I know the whole thing with Thomas touching Jesus' wounds and being all “Blessed are those who believe without seeing.” And also from Jesus' second temptation he said "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". But unfortunately it is going to take proof for me to ever believe again. Or at least an undeniable set of coincedences. If the dude wants my worship, he's gonna have to prove it.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
Okay so last night I went to bed at about 12:50. I laid down and said The Lord's Prayer three times, and made the sign of the cross on myself three times while doing it. Then I prayed about what we talked about, about wanting to believe but not being able to, wanting to be given proof/a sign etc. I emphatically called in the name of the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and in the name of the Holy Spirit. I prayed for about ten minutes, but I don't remember much more detail. But anyways, at the exact moment I said "Amen", the clock downstairs chimed/tolled once, for 1 am. I wasn't watching the clock, I had my eyes closed the whole time so there is no way that I was keeping track of the time, etc. Just sort of weird that it happened immediately, like "Amen" *DINGGGGGGGGGG*. Haha. It was like "Your prayers have been answered".


Hey hey, that is interesting. There are some who will say that your subconsious was keeping track or that it was a coincidence. My recommendation would be to make a "tick mark" and keep track of the coincidences. Then ask yourself "How may coincidences occur before they're no longer coincidences?" Mathmatically speaking, the number gets exponential. Fun to play with the numbers but not required to get proof.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Nice little coincidence, but I don't know if it totally convinces me. I asked for something a bit bigger, something undeniable. But I have yet to get some big booming God voice talking to me directly, not even mention of God from a family member or a Bible randomly showing up on the kitchen table when I walked downstairs in the morning (I expected that one to be a sign that would have shown up). There was some snow flurries when I opened up my window this morning and I thought "New beginnings", but there is really nothing too odd about snow on an early spring morning in Canada.





Originally posted by Yarcofin
Anyway, there is my story and the one little "sign" of coincedence that appeared in my life as I was talking to (yelling at) God. But it's going to take more than that for me to believe again.


There's the story of Elijah...

"The Lord said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by."

"Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

(1 Kings 19:11)


Originally posted by Yarcofin
And now the phone started ringing as soon as I typed that.
Slightly freaked out, but still not believing. And I'm not answering that phone either
.


Hehe, why not?


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Edit: As soon as I hit the Submit Post button, it stopped.


I've never heard God call by phone, but "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Maybe my "dial God directly" analogy is more accurate than I thought.



Originally posted by Yarcofin
Am I looking for signs in something that isn't really there? I'll keep my eyes peeled and relay back if there are any more weird 'coincedences' anyways.


Keep a tally and I would be intersted in hearing them.


Originally posted by Yarcofin
I know the whole thing with Thomas touching Jesus' wounds and being all “Blessed are those who believe without seeing.” And also from Jesus' second temptation he said "Do not put the Lord your God to the test". But unfortunately it is going to take proof for me to ever believe again. Or at least an undeniable set of coincedences. If the dude wants my worship, he's gonna have to prove it.


Understandable. But, relationships are always a two-way street. You've made a step. A very important one. And there are more steps you can take to get the answer. The U2U's were some ways of working on those steps.

I have to say though, it's pleasantly surprising to hear coincidences occurring so soon. I didn't doubt it, but have come to expect things in His time, not mine.

By the way, if this doesn't classify as "paranormal studies" I don't know what does.

As an aside, I found it unnecessary to be repetitive in prayer. You can talk to Him as you would anyone else.



[edit on 24-3-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 01:25 PM
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Here's the second weird "coincedence" today... I had to get pictures or I knew you guys wouldn't believe me.

There is a female duck sitting on the peak of my house, squaking louder than I have ever heard in my life, IN A FREAKIN SNOWSTORM.



Here it is, sitting in for the long haul:


On my neighbours roof, there is also a male standing on the very peak of their house


Just lost in the snow? There are no ponds, etc. anywhere near my house that would possibly attract ducks. What's up with that! haha.

I'm going to go try and record some of their quacking if they are still doing it. I think they shut up though. Anyway I took about 15 pictures, and they are both still just sitting there. I've seen ducks around my house maybe 3 or 4 times in my lifetime when it gets really really rainy and the park near my house turns into a pond, but never in the winter.

If it's a sign, it's getting there. It's gonna pretty much take seeing "JESUS" written in the snow in giant letters when I come home tonight to convince me though.

[edit on 24-3-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
since the whole premise of this thread is PRAYER. It's not like we are using a 'psychic power' to affect the world, it is direct religious faith.


might I say, what is your perspective on psychic power? Why isn't a prayer a 'psychic power'. every human action is in my eyes psychic. even talking, it affects things, mostly yourself, like when you talk out loud with no-one to hear, at least your self is effected. Maybe even your surroundings!! Then why, oh why shouldn't a prayer then be called psychic, if we call it this these days? and what a name for it, it sounds like it's a beast! ah, the beast judges everything possible and creates so many boxes in ourselves we are totally shattered to pieces, removing every illusion to becoma again truly ourselves.speaking frealy out of our hearts. So we don't get pushed in one of our thinking-boxes. These boxes should become all open so it would be one, a total perception of everything, just to become the God-. and speak his words. to speak when needed to and that with a righteouss tongue!but who am I to..



posted on Mar, 24 2006 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
If it's a sign, it's getting there. It's gonna pretty much take seeing "JESUS" written in the snow in giant letters when I come home tonight to convince me though.


Sure thing, where do you live?
I'm kidding of course.

So far I count the coincidences you listed as 3. I believe you're waking up, and please don't discount the possibility of subtlety. Is it easier to hear me from 100 yards away or 1 yard away. The closer you get to Him, the louder things may get. All the best, looking forward to hearing more signs. If you're unsure about that prayer working, try another, etc. Also, there's still that U2U hanging out there if ever you'd like to pick it up.



posted on Mar, 25 2006 @ 05:48 AM
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just in the meanwhile, I want to thank you Yarcofin for telling us your experiences. It just gives the extra touch at this thread, thanks.

I hope your prayers will be answered.. and I wish you luck with your eastern-duck, yes things change.. everything transforms! even bunnys in ducks

cheers



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