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A world without exclusive religions: Can we do it?

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posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 10:20 PM
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Okay, do any of you believe that there is any possibility of a SUCCESSFUL revolution to rid the world of organized EXCLUSIVE religions, such as Christianity and Judaism and Islam? I would leave the inclusive religions of asia such as buddhism and taoism and confucionism etc. b/c those religions aren't currently causing worldwide problems.

There is only one stipulation: The revolution MUST be peaceful.

I want input from the religious and non religious.

Just as many other people think, i believe organized religions cause more harm than good and that the world would be a FAR better place without them. If there is a God, do you think he wants us fighting wars over him? No. We should all live in this life and not the "afterlife". All we have guranteed to us is the current moment we are living in, everything else isn't guranteed. And an "afterlife" sure as hell isn't guranteed. If you think it is, prove it.

I know the communists tried and are still trying to abolish organized relgion, but they obviously didn't and aren't succeeding. I believe Marx said religion is a "crutch for the weak". We should learn to walk without the crutch.

Input is appreciated, thanks.




posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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No, I don't believe that organized religion should be abolished.



Let the christian-bashing begin!!!



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by TheBlueSoldier
No, I don't believe that organized religion should be abolished.



Let the christian-bashing begin!!!


Okay, i can respect that opinion but not before you back it up with why you think organized religion shouldn't be abolished...

And no one is christian bashing here...



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 11:26 PM
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You want to ban religion based on past experiences. O.K.

Then ban the Fulbright scholarship because he was a segregationist.

Ban all guns.They kill people.

Ban knives,cars,Zyklon B,close Mitsubishi, close Mercedes and shoot anyone related to the Bin Laden family.

Crimes were perpetrated in the name of God since,well, there were people.
Don't throw out the baby with the bath water because you disagree with their line of thinking.



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 11:36 PM
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Once again, i'm not Christian bashing. Notice how i also included Judaism and Islam as exclusive religions? No one has said i was MUSLIM BASHING or JEW BASHING, have they? I'm not "bashing" anyone.

True, guns and knives are purposely used to kill people. How is that relevant?

Car accidents are just that, accidents.

Without religion, Bin Laden would have never brought the towers down. He wouldn't have been taught by someone to hate christians.



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 11:37 PM
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when I first came into this thread I thought it would be about masons or something like that or maybe even secret societies.



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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Religion without exclusivity is like opening a book with blank pages to read. It is illogical and intellectually dishonest to try to dismember the rich ideologies of each and every religion into a single feel good pastiche simply because you feel uncomfortable with other people's beliefs. Frankly, I expect this sort of mentality from a 2 year old, not an adult. Imagine if a child in Kindergarden decided that because he doesn't like the colour blue and loves red, everybody in the class must now wear red? That's a tyrannical mentality and I am not surprised that Christian bashers think this way. Not that anyone here is a Christian basher....



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by Nakash
Religion without exclusivity is like opening a book with blank pages to read. It is illogical and intellectually dishonest to try to dismember the rich ideologies of each and every religion into a single feel good pastiche simply because you feel uncomfortable with other people's beliefs. Frankly, I expect this sort of mentality from a 2 year old, not an adult. Imagine if a child in Kindergarden decided that because he doesn't like the colour blue and loves red, everybody in the class must now wear red? That's a tyrannical mentality and I am not surprised that Christian bashers think this way. Not that anyone here is a Christian basher....


What???? You just contradicted yourself and your point. Religion without exclusivity isn't tyrannical, it's the other way around. Using your example of the color red and blue, it is the exclusive mentality that insists upon everyone choosing the same color. Non-exclusive would mean that everyone is allowed to choose any color yet still be part of the group.

Exclusive Religious thinking would literally be, for example: "There is only One Path to God". Non-Exclusive Religious thinking would be: "All paths lead to God".

So, now, what is it that the Judeo-Christo-Islamic "Organizations" teach within their institutions??? They teach Exclusive Ideals, because they Exclude/Condemn/Banish/etc. all those who don't think like them.

Ironicly it is these very same "Exclusive" Religious Groups that speak of themselves as being Religions of "Tolerance, Forgiveness, Acceptance, etc." with same breath they condemn others to Eternal Damnation for conforming to their beliefs.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 12:48 AM
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Okay, Kwintz, here's a heavy reply
Karl Marx and "(religion) is the opium of the people." Basically, religion, like opium, kills the pain/suffering but does not do away with what is causing the suffering. That is how it fitted into his critique of society. This quote has so often been interpreted to mean a hatred for religion as one hates illegal drugs, or religion sedates citizens as zombies. Hey, reminds me of another misinterpretation--"we will bury you" becoming "we will kill you" instead of "see ya at your own funeral", he will be there at the fall of the USA, as America implodes from within. (Krushtev must be turning over in his grave at what happened in history, meanwhile we spent $$$ on Cold War.) See the following for more on Marx quote
www.cliftonunitarian.com...
atheism.about.com...

Rid the world of exclusive religions? Not in your lifetime. One God, many religions. (i.e. One God, but many people to make up religions.) Remember, the Kingdom of God is within. You can choose to love one another and not be exclusive. As far as religions go, even in the ones you mentioned as exclusive are many good people who really reach out to others. They allow the Spirit of God to live in their hearts and minds. When you meet them outside of their church, you would not even necessarily know what religion they are. Seek first the Kingdom within, then you will learn to see this Kingdom in others. Peace is possible in your Life, not necessarly in the Lives of others. Don't give up, let the Peaceful Revolution begin with you.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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Okay, do any of you believe that there is any possibility of a SUCCESSFUL revolution to rid the world of organized EXCLUSIVE religions, such as Christianity and Judaism and Islam? I would leave the inclusive religions of asia such as buddhism and taoism and confucionism etc. b/c those religions aren't currently causing worldwide problems.


I am unaware of any problems that Christianity has caused in the history of the world. Can you clarify?



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I am unaware of any problems that Christianity has caused in the history of the world.


The Crusades. The Inquisitions. The Dark Ages.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 05:06 AM
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I think it is a good question raised. However there are a lot of problems in establishing what you want achieved. You need to understand that the world is one. There are no super powers/ or developing countries or underdeveloped countries. There is no discrimination in the world. There is no threat to human life from another human race. There is a stable economy world wide for prosperity of all. There could be more factors which I may have missed, however the point is we all call ourselves citizens of mother Earth. This is not possible because of upbringing of each and every individual, exposure to religious background. I have noticed in families coming from same religion, observing different methods during their religious days.

A true point was raised on which religion to follow then? Some readers may not believe in God, but for those who do, religion is pretty well embedded in their existence. There will be times when as a human one does feel down and to those inclind to religion will turn to the faith they believe in and pray to their God, though he may be one, to help them and give them the strength to fight through there tough times.

Even if something does happen, generations will pass down their belief's in the younger generations. I cannot comment of what they may do, but history speaks volumes and if we go back, if as humans we dnt respect others intruiting or invading our land [material], how will all humans who respect their religion [spiritual] not hold a stance against such a move?

Great discussion topic and i think it would have been a good idea to include a generalised view including countries in Asia.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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The next battles and terrorist attacks coming up (see Jeremiah 25) will scare the world enough to try to form some generic universal religion guidelines in which we all agree by covenant to worship God as we choose and agree that it is illegal to try to convert anyone else to the specifics of yours.

It will be "successful" for about 3 1/2 years. Then, people will break the peace covenant since they cannot resist the lust for power in the midst of dwindling resources in the world. That's when all hell (oops, sorry) breaks loose.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

I am unaware of any problems that Christianity has caused in the history of the world. Can you clarify?


How does one respond to such an assertion? We can only hope that spending more time on ATS (or in a library, or online, or in a bookstore), will enlighten Mr. Matrix. To be fair, he may be a graduate of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University.

Honestly, I don't believe religion should be abolished. Prayer, faith and piety are all positive influences on a person's life. The problem, is that some people use religion to express the ugliest parts of their own being. Whether we're talking about an Islamic fundamentalist suicide bomber, or a radical Zionist or a fanatic Christian abortion-clinic bomber, these are people who, if they didn't have religion, would find something else to use as a vehicle for their obsessions.

Absolutism in religion comes from fear. In every religious person, there is a seed of doubt. Some part of them whispers that there really isn't an invisible being in the clouds who's listening to their prayers and who's going to help them win the lottery, if they just pray enough. Some part of them sees through the obscurantist explanations of the random universe. True believers let this doubt bubble to the surface and dissipate like carbonation in a glass of soda pop. But for the true fanatic, the only way they can assuage their fear and doubt is to force their beliefs on others. Because if everybody else believes the same thing, then it MUST be true, right? Ten million Elvis fans can't be wrong. This is what creates the desire for "pure" Christian communities. It's like a child sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling to keep from hearing something they don't like.

Because of the misery religion is causing in the world, it's easy to forget that the impulse to find meaning and faith is one of the most precious things about human beings. That worship in a community can bring about wonderful things for people. The challenge is to keep it from becoming pathological.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by Kwintz
Okay, do any of you believe that there is any possibility of a SUCCESSFUL revolution to rid the world of organized EXCLUSIVE religions, such as Christianity and Judaism and Islam? I would leave the inclusive religions of asia such as buddhism and taoism and confucionism etc. b/c those religions aren't currently causing worldwide problems.

???

Buddhism is a very exclusive religion, it takes a great deal of training from masters to 'fully' become a buddhist, and buddhism rejects other religions. Christianity "merely" requires that one 'accept christ', and many christian religions are ecumenical, meaning that they accept that there are other paths to salvation. Islam is surprisingly inclusive, you don't have to be a muslim in islam to get 'saved', infact, pretty much everyone gets saved, after a respite in something like the christian purgatory. So I don't know what you mean here by 'exclusive and inclusive'.

What problems is judaism, as a religion, causing? Or christianity for that matter, as a religion, as opposed to christians and jews who are causing problems?


Just as many other people think, i believe organized religions cause more harm than good

Then please add buddhism to your list of religions to destroy. The lama is just an eastern pope. Even the other types of buddhism basically require strict adherence to a programme, as determined by a master. Taoism, too, is a 'religion of a book', and thus requires observance of the demands and commands made within that book.


Input is appreciated, thanks.

The problem with religion is people telling other people that their religion is evil and should be wiped out, which, ironically, is precisely what you are doing.


sun matrix
I am unaware of any problems that Christianity has caused in the history of the world.

Whoa, hold on here. I said above that christianity isn't a worldwide problem now, but in the past it certainly was. The crusades were christianity. THe 100 Years War was christianity. The very spread of christianity with its complete destruction of the native religions it encounted, from norway to nicaragua, was christianity causing major global problems. Today, its a little different, Bush, for example, isn't saying 'jesus wants to bomb mecca', the pope isn't saying 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' etc.
I anticipate that you might say 'but those things are against what I believe to be truly christian', however thats pretty irrelevant, don't you think? Christianity is a pacifist religion, Islam is also a religion that moderate violence, hinduism and the concept of dharma require a person to be peacable in life, however, christians, in the name of christ, have killed. Muslims, in the name of allah and mohammed, have killed. Hindus, in the name of hinduism, have killed. Even bhudist leaders have destroyed things and peoples, heck, for all the 'niceness' of the dali lama, tibetans lived a pretty miserable existence under the llamas, in the name of the bhudda.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by vuoto

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

I am unaware of any problems that Christianity has caused in the history of the world. Can you clarify?


How does one respond to such an assertion? We can only hope that spending more time on ATS (or in a library, or online, or in a bookstore), will enlighten Mr. Matrix. To be fair, he may be a graduate of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University.



There is education that you are taught, and there is truth. The Crusades and inquisiton came from the Pontiffs. Roman emporers were Pontiffs. I suggest you do a little research on Emperor Constantine.

It's kinda like someone saying that they need to do something about the Indian problem in Boston.
And I respond, I wasn't ever aware of an Indian problem in Boston.
And you respond, "The Boston Tea Party"



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by vuoto

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

I am unaware of any problems that Christianity has caused in the history of the world. Can you clarify?


How does one respond to such an assertion? We can only hope that spending more time on ATS (or in a library, or online, or in a bookstore), will enlighten Mr. Matrix. To be fair, he may be a graduate of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University.



There is education that you are taught, and there is truth. The Crusades and inquisiton came from the Pontiffs. Roman emporers were Pontiffs. I suggest you do a little research on Emperor Constantine.

Sir, I respectfully request that you research the truth, rather than accept what someone has taught you. Roman Emperors were not catholic ponitfs. The roman emperors often were pontifex maximus, that is, 'greatest preist within the pagan roman religions', particularly in the pre-christian era. The catholic church, existing at a time when latin was the language of the world, called the head of the church 'pontif', but this is no more pagan roman than saying the head of a company is its 'director' or that the cheif of your will is an 'executor', etc.

No pope was ever emperor, no emperor was ever pope, the two offices existed at the same time and were independant of one another. Constantine was not the first pope, and never was a pope at all, infact, constantine was around long before there was a Roman Catholic Church, which didn't come into existence until much much later.

Regardless, the people that particpated in the crusades were christians, and they did it as a christian endeavour, to recover christian holy land and have christian kings rule it.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Taoism, too, is a 'religion of a book', and thus requires observance of the demands and commands made within that book.


Can you please tell me what book you speak of?



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 03:50 PM
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No pope was ever emperor, no emperor was ever pope, the two offices existed at the same time and were independant of one another. Constantine was not the first pope, and never was a pope at all, infact, constantine was around long before there was a Roman Catholic Church, which didn't come into existence until much much later.


Please educate me on when the Catholic Church came into existence as they seem to trace their lineage right back to Peter. I certainly want your take on when this church started.




Regardless, the people that particpated in the crusades were christians, and they did it as a christian endeavour, to recover christian holy land and have christian kings rule it.


Yep, and Indians caused problems in Boston.

I really do want you to explain when you think the Catholic Church started as I don't think that I have heard this one before.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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A world without exclusive religions: Can we do it?


Sure. Let's call it The Church of the Non-Exclusive God. Sort of a Neo-God if you will. We'll make everyone give us 10% of their income and we'll become billionaires in no time.....Of course, we'll have to start a web-site!



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