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furture of the SA80

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posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 03:22 PM
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So the MoD now plan on keeping the SA80, Britiains main infantry weapon since 1984, until 2015 allegdly. Whats ur thoughts on this rifle?
Therve been some horror stories about it. Appraenlty the housing for the upper reciver and trigger mechanism were so flimsy you could squeeze it together and actually stop the bolt carrier from moving down the recoil rod.
also the top cover supposedly would flip open of its own accord during prolonged firing.

These seem to have been rectified with the introduction of the A2 model, but what do you think?
should britian flog a dead horse and keep it or swtich to something like the G36?




posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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i heard off my engineering teacher who worked in the production of shells for British tanks before he was a teacher, that the biggest reason for the SA80 A1's jamming was because the tolerances they were produced to were to high.

Justin



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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The original SA80 was dogged with problems. However the modified SA80 A2 is a substantial improvement and by all accounts reported to be a very good weapon. The documented mean rounds before failure is apparently very high. Other aspects of the weapon, such as accuracy and the optical sight also receive positive comment.

Think the SA80 A2 is a good weapon so why bother replacing it?

Regards



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 04:59 PM
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I love the SA80 but u cant beat the LSW, so accurate on burst. I dont think the SA80 shd be replaced



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Heres a very unusual image - A suppressed SA80 A2 variant!

The weapons nice and light, very very accurate, and now the offer a suppressed version - That will do very nicely sir!

www.canadiantactical.ca...

The SA80 had teething trouble just like all weapons, but I have a problem with the calibre and not the actual design. Out in Bosnia the SA80 didn't have the reach of the AK series and lead to problems ( Until the warriors turned up with their 30 mm cannons....lol)

Still say 7.62 should be brought back....



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo

Still say 7.62 should be brought back....



Mr. Kalashnikov would agree with you, he was against the Soviets following suit of the US 5.56 when Russia created the AK-74 to use the 5.45
round.

He was and still is for modernizing the 7.62x39mm round.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:17 PM
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didnt the SA80 have problems with it from day?
causing them 2-3+milion just to fix them problems.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:25 PM
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Yeah its had its creases ironed out with the A2 model. I agree its certainly accurate, especially the LSW variant. The susats sights great. That and its bayonet are its best features imo!

still butt ugly though. And bullpups suck
the G36E looks the busniess
world.guns.ru...[/url]

Why is it however that the SAS, when pictured (which seems to happen more and more for an alledgly reclusive special force) always seem to prefer using the M16 on operations? that certianly seemed the case during the first gulf war.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:25 PM
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and why the hell cant i post an url properly



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:40 PM
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The origins of the SA80 goes back to the late 1940s when the EM2 Bullpup rifle came out but knocked off due to NATO ammo standards so thats where the SLR came out.
securityarms.com...

In the late 1960s/early 1970s, the same design came back as the XL70 chambered for a 4.85mm round but also was rejected for the same reason as above
securityarms.com...

The Belgian designed SLR used before the SA80 was a great weapon, despite the British ones were too long and only semi auto, otherwise it may still be used now.
securityarms.com...

Back in the falklands war, British troops took left over argentinean FN FAL rifles which had front bipods and full auto capability

Anyone seen the new DSA 58 used by US SWAT Teams?



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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www.hkpro.com...

OK take a look at the soldier holding the G-36...just look at how long the blooming thing is! ROFL: If the UK forces wanted to keep a weapon of that length we would never had got rid of that legendary SLR. !

Infantry trends said that armour mech assaults would be the way to go, and the experience of troops in NI and eslsewhere made the Forces stipulate the short BullPup layout.

The G-36 is nice, but its length that lets it down Legendary reliability though ( metropolitan Police use them on their armed response teams as well as Steyr Augs..)

And there is the solution - Steyr Aug. THE best assault rifle ever made - and available in 5.56 and 9 mm... Now if they did it in 7.62 that would be a wet dream of a weapon!



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist


Why is it however that the SAS, when pictured (which seems to happen more and more for an alledgly reclusive special force) always seem to prefer using the M16 on operations? that certianly seemed the case during the first gulf war.


I heard this was in part done because the first models of the SA80 had no option for a 40mm Grenade launcher.

Now they can use the HK AG36 40 mm grenade launcher



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist


Why is it however that the SAS, when pictured (which seems to happen more and more for an alledgly reclusive special force) always seem to prefer using the M16 on operations? that certianly seemed the case during the first gulf war.

Well think, if every buggers using it how can you tell who you are fighting?



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp


Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist


Why is it however that the SAS, when pictured (which seems to happen more and more for an alledgly reclusive special force) always seem to prefer using the M16 on operations? that certianly seemed the case during the first gulf war.

Well think, if every buggers using it how can you tell who you are fighting?



I think it should be can celled more powerful rifles are produceable.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist
...These seem to have been rectified with the introduction of the A2 model, but what do you think?
should britian flog a dead horse and keep it or swtich to something like the G36?



The L85 and L85A1 certainly had a lot of problems, up to the point that they were "not safe for work" - even in the best conditions they failed for various reasons. This is not comparable to the evolution of the M16 - that weapon mostly suffered from mistakes during construction and procurement - the L85 had inherent flaws by DESIGN. Now the Hk makeover to the A2 standard changed dozens of features and parts and the MOD invested several hundreds of € into each weapon; and apparently it is now in a working condition.

The rifle still isn`t and never will be a top-notch weapon system - but as long as it works it might be a waste of money to adopt an entirely new weapon (as much as I´d like the G36 to spread further
)



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 09:53 PM
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History tends to judge firearms based on their export success, 'nuff said.



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 01:26 AM
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the G-36K is not much longer than the SA-80 so that would definitly be an option, the G-36E with it's magnifying scope could easilly be a DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle).

I am all for the UK going for the G-36 series of guns, they quite simply ROCK! either that or they could go for a XM-8 with 6.8mm rounds, while they are at it, the US could go for it too, sure it looks weird but I am actually starting to like the thing. (probably since it's not being adopted now!)



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Lonestar24
The rifle still isn`t and never will be a top-notch weapon system - but as long as it works it might be a waste of money to adopt an entirely new weapon (as much as I´d like the G36 to spread further
)

It is for target shooting, it was designed for and by marksmen remember..



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
either that or they could go for a XM-8 with 6.8mm rounds, while they are at it, the US could go for it too, sure it looks weird but I am actually starting to like the thing. (probably since it's not being adopted now!)



I think the 6.8 SPC is a great round a smarter choice then the 5.56 for anyone switching over to a completly new service rifle.

If your going to pay all that money for something new you might as well address the 5.56 stopping power issue.



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

If your going to pay all that money for something new you might as well address the 5.56 stopping power issue.


This is an exellent point shadow ,

But i doubt we'd see the political will to be a pioneer of adopting such a round, en mass ,un less the rest of NATO did

[edit on 14-3-2006 by buckaroo]




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