A wall of Shame in Palestine

Originally posted by AceOfBase

AceOfBase....I guess you are danish...what's your problem with arabs and muslims...man. first you insulted our prophet in the name of freedom of speech then you are lecturing me in history, i thought danish concerns only in cheese...lol. allow me my friend to correct your historical information. East timor is and was a part of Indonesia, the only prob;em for western governments that majority of east timor population are christian Indonisians plus i think that the region full of preciuos natural resources(maybe oil i'm not sure), also Indonesia's population in 50 years will exeed the number of population of China and india and will become the largest ialamic country in the world and it'll be a super power in asia. so how can western governments prevent this large islamic country from becoming a super power? by cutting the country to pieces , like they did to arb regio for the las 100 years, by planting alien government in the middle of Indonesia, like Israel in the middle east. can you believe it the peaceful country australia turned to a monster and sent thousand of its troops to defend the freedom and independence of east timor, for god sakes, east-tinorans are native indonesians but with different relegion, it's like giving parts of newyork state independence because the majority their are jews....huh, did get it?

Again you show a selective view of history.
Ignoring the actions of muslims and focusing on western nations.

Australia did not turn into a monster. They went into Indonesia to stop the genocide against the Christians in East Timor who were being slaughtered and raped by the Indonesian muslims, just as western nations went into Yugoslavia and stopped the slaughter there.

Please read up on the history of that conflict:

UN verdict on East Timor

THE Indonesian military used starvation as a weapon to exterminate the East Timorese, according to a UN report documenting the deaths of as many as 180,000 civilians at the hands of the occupying forces.

The 2500-page report, obtained by The Australian, has been suppressed for months by the East Timorese Government and will infuriate Indonesia, which has punished only a handful of soldiers for the murders, assaults and rapes that occurred during its 24 years of occupation.

Napalm and chemical weapons, which poisoned the food and water supply, were used by Indonesian soldiers against the East Timorese in the brutal invasion and annexation of the half-island to Australia's north, according to the Commission for Reception, Truth and Reconciliation report.

[...]

It documents a litany of massacres, thousands of summary executions of civilians and the torture of 8500 East Timorese - with horrific details of public beheadings, the mutilation of genitalia, the burying and burning alive of victims, use of cigarettes to burn victims, and ears and genitals being lopped off to display to families.

Thousands of East Timorese women were raped and sexually assaulted during the occupation and the report concludes that rape was also used by the Indonesian military as a weapon of war.

If you can't look at the genocide in East Timor objectively then I don't trust you to be able to look at the Palestinian and Chechn conflict objectively.


For your information Ace of Base, Mr. clinton waited enough time, until Serbs finished their mission ( genocide of muslims in Bosnia) then went into Yugoslavia after the slaughtering of muslims finished.

I am against all kinds of genocide in the world, but I always search for the source of the conflict that caused the genocide...surprise ...surprise ...I find western super power behind any evil in this world.



[edit on 16-3-2006 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by dana2006

I am not talking about roman times, i'm talking about European nations after the collapse of roman empire. did you ever wondered why Europeans (men and women)used to wear high neck shirts and dresses?? because the aristocrats used to bathe using perfume, and after a while the lice will spread everywhere , plus they couldn't stand their filthy body smell, the poor wouldn't have a chance to take a bath and they didn't know it's necessary to take one. regarding Saudi Arabia . they never insulted jeasus or moses or david on the contrary they beg westerners to respect all reliogions including christianty and Judaism.Saudi Arabia didn't produce Davincci code or many disgracefull hollywood movies about jeasus, once claiming that he's gay, then adulterer ....shame on you. who told you that cypress is a greek land , Turkey has proofs that part of cypress is Turkish , so it's not occupied. you claim that Arab muslims still occupy Berber lands in North Africa and won't give it back. also european christians are still occupying native americans(red indians) land in north and south america and won't give it back. Westerners forced the declaration of independence of East Timor on Indonesia in the 1970's. even that east timor was part of indonesia for thousands of years ago, because the majority of east timor population are christians.

you claim Pakistan will not respect other nations. They invaded Kashmir and started populating that area with muslims and they've went to war with India on multiple occasions.oh poor india, ask yourself one question, who started the whole mess...read history please...great britain , before leaving india, caused lots of problems between hindus and muslims in india, and cut india into two pieces, typical atitude of western colonizers.plus majority population of Kashmir are muslims for hundreds of years ago and any stupid knows that. Israel did to palestine what you are accusing pakistanis of doing to Kashmir.

Cyprus and Constantinople are occupied lands.
They were Greek before the Turkish muslims invaded and annexed them.

Regarding Pakistan, Britain only split India into two parts after the muslims demanded a seperate muslim state because they refused to live under a hindu raj. Britain also did not start the problems there. For hundreds of years the Hindu majority of India had to live under the rule of the muslim minority.


April 4 1942, five years before partition.

EDIT:

BTW, I still think you were wrong about European bathing habits.
It's just more biased propaganda from you.
www.gallowglass.org...

Speaking of hygeine, do muslims still wipe the faeces from their butts using their bare fingers and a container of water called a lotah?
When will you start using toilet paper?


[edit on 16-3-2006 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by dana2006

I am not talking about roman times, i'm talking about European nations after the collapse of roman empire. did you ever wondered why Europeans (men and women)used to wear high neck shirts and dresses?? because the aristocrats used to bathe using perfume, and after a while the lice will spread everywhere , plus they couldn't stand their filthy body smell, the poor wouldn't have a chance to take a bath and they didn't know it's necessary to take one. regarding Saudi Arabia . they never insulted jeasus or moses or david on the contrary they beg westerners to respect all reliogions including christianty and Judaism.Saudi Arabia didn't produce Davincci code or many disgracefull hollywood movies about jeasus, once claiming that he's gay, then adulterer ....shame on you. who told you that cypress is a greek land , Turkey has proofs that part of cypress is Turkish , so it's not occupied. you claim that Arab muslims still occupy Berber lands in North Africa and won't give it back. also european christians are still occupying native americans(red indians) land in north and south america and won't give it back. Westerners forced the declaration of independence of East Timor on Indonesia in the 1970's. even that east timor was part of indonesia for thousands of years ago, because the majority of east timor population are christians.

you claim Pakistan will not respect other nations. They invaded Kashmir and started populating that area with muslims and they've went to war with India on multiple occasions.oh poor india, ask yourself one question, who started the whole mess...read history please...great britain , before leaving india, caused lots of problems between hindus and muslims in india, and cut india into two pieces, typical atitude of western colonizers.plus majority population of Kashmir are muslims for hundreds of years ago and any stupid knows that. Israel did to palestine what you are accusing pakistanis of doing to Kashmir.

Cyprus and Constantinople are occupied lands.
They were Greek before the Turkish muslims invaded and annexed them.

Regarding Pakistan, Britain only split India into two parts after the muslims demanded a seperate muslim state because they refused to live under a hindu raj. Britain also did not start the problems there. For hundreds of years the Hindu majority of India had to live under the rule of the muslim minority.

April 4 1942, five years before partition.

EDIT:

BTW, I still think you were wrong about European bathing habits.
It's just more biased propaganda from you.
www.gallowglass.org...

Speaking of hygeine, do muslims still wipe the faeces from their buts using their bare fingers and a container of water called a lotah?
When will you start using toilet paper?


[edit on 16-3-2006 by AceOfBase]

At least muslims wash their butts 5 times a day, instead of wiping them with dry toilet paper leaving smelly # stains there for the whole day, like westerners.

Did you watch western films, when a a civilized american cowboy put some water in a ceramic bowl, and keep using the same dirty water from the same bowl to wash his hands . muslims befor the age of faucets, used to pour clean water on their hands without using the same water once again. did you notice the different techniques.

I'm shocked to hear such a comment on hygeine matters, from someone who becomes proud when a filthy dog licks his butt first then licks his owner's lips with same Toungue ...eeewwww...and insists that it's very clean...grrroooosss.

Dana, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I learned of the Muslims conquering vast amounts of land in high school. I also learned more about them in college. There was never once mention of Arabs being poor beggers. That has never been mentioned in any classes I've heard of. Teachers have to be careful or they will get fired for something like that. You're also making up the 99% of all Arabs in movies being represented as negative. I'd like to see you name a list of movies on that one. The only time extremists are mentioned as terrorists you go nuts and protest the movie. Maybe you should wake up and read the news. Most terrorist activities are committed by Muslim extremists. You got positive credit for true history in Kingdom of Heavon and you'll get negative credit for what is going on now. You can't only be represented in a positive way in every movie but that's how you want it. No group of people are represented like that. If you represent yourselves poorly, you will be shown poorly in movies. Many Muslims protested over those stupid cartoons. You're such hypocrites when it benefits yourselves. I saw a guy on the news saying how freedom of speech protected his right to protest and basically riot and destroy things. Wouldn't the cartoonist be protected by this same right, especially if they were not physically hurting things or people?

Maybe we are fighting on the side of Israel in the Middle East because they are the good side. There is a reason we have made all the good connections with them. They are showing that they can live a civilized life and people are still not willing to let them have there little chunk of land.

You are correct on one thing. I can clearly stand by your statements about how you deserve to rule the world based on your clean butts. I'm not sure that any people is more advanced in the art of butt cleaning as the Muslims, Arabs, or whoever you're saying this about. The dirty butt has crumbled many a nation. I am going to have to think things over and try to figure out who I really agree with now. I probably shower about once every month and I wipe my butt with my bare hand so I can go shake hands of people like you. Sometimes I drag my butt on the floor like a dirty American dog. We all figure that if it works for dogs it must be a good thing. You should see all the stains on my carpet.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

Originally posted by dana2006
IAF101,

I'm not saying west should be scared of arabs and muslims, west already are scared of them, because of that , you find anti-islam, anti arab feeling in the western world. west can't forget that arabs and muslims ruled west for more than 800 years and they reaced the gates of Vienna.

I live in the US, I dont care whether you arabs reached the north pole or took over china. It matters little what you did 800 hundred years ago as even the western civilsation trashed your Ottaman empire and divided it up into little peices and used you all as slaves. Also do not forget that the Crusaders pushed back the Muslims and took back the holy land from the Arabs. The Muslims have been since Mohammeds death a violent barbaric people and they revel in this violence. The West has long since given up such shallow pride and gone for more meaning full pursuits of development.

This thread is about the Palestine Wall and not about history. You can feel happy that once upon a time the cut throat kalifs were able to take control of some parts of Europe but this means little to the Palestine people and the world today.
As for your west is already scared of them, that is your delusion. The Muslims today are nothing without their oil which will last them another 200 years max after which you will return to the bedouins you were. The West wasnt afraiod to raise Islamist controlled Afganistan to ground nor was it afraid to take on Saddam nor will it be afraid to take on any other Arab state. The reason the West has taken over these states is not because they think that 800 years ago some Muslims took Europe or other such nonsense but becasue the Muslims have through their poverty and illitrecy become a bunch of terrorists and criminals and the West has come to restore order in your lawless region. You should be thankfull for this, for showing the arab world civilisation and democracy both of which are too advanced for the arab people to understand.

and I want you to pay attentions for one point mr. IAF101, at that time, westreners used to take bath twice in their whole life , when the're born and when they passed away, on the contrary , when arabs ruled purtugal and spain and parts of Italy and france they built central heating systems in their palaces in Andalucia and Al-hambra, and if you don't believe me, watch BBC documentaries about arab and muslim cicilization or read history.

Which madrassa did you hear this from ?
Did you know that you Muslims still dont bath everyday, only on Fridays! Thats why you people use so much ither!
Jsut because you rub water on your hands, head and feet before stepping into a mosque doesnt mean that you are clean, that is not called a bath. You think the rest of your body does not require to be cleaned ? And you call this cleanliness ? Before prophet mohamed even knew who Allah was Westerners had a much higher level of hygine than the Bedoiuns of the Middle east. Have you no knowledge of the bath houses of the Romans, the Macedonians ? Obviously your madrassa has forgotten to mention that.

Yes, I have read of the palaces of Andalusia and also of the works of that time but that is was in the 8th century, do you think that what you Muslims accomplished a millenia and a half ago has some significance today ? NO. Your attitude is just as it was in the 8th century, except now you have no lands, no wealth and no power.

You can't talk about values my friend , because yoy are a westrener, and you don't believe in values, you believe in the material world and all the time , you make fun of arabs and muslimes because they believe in high values , instead of being objective and meterialistic like the west .

I am a westerner and I dont believe in values ?? Again the same Madrassa nonsense, who brainwashes you like this ? Bin-laden ?
In the West we dont believe in values which treat our women like camels, where they cant own property, they have to wear some stupid hijab even in the desert and where a woman cannot even go out in public on her own without escort. We dont believe that women are nothing more than animals. Obviously you people do. We in the west dont belive that allah can ever tell us to wage jihad just because we have some problems. We cannot believe that you can lie to an enemy because it doesnt count and we do not belive in revenge and vengence unlike muslims. We dont believe that only if we pray 5 times a day while killing women and children in the spare time we will go to heaven. We dont believe that heaven is a hoar house with an unlimited supply of prosititutes! We dont belive that heaven is meare worldly comforts. Atleast we are capitalistic in life rather than being capitalistic in heaven.
You call these high values?? I know all about your values and your customs! Dont try to fool me, I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years. Even there they treat all you other muslims as second class, some values you people have !

you got lots of nerves to talk about values, arabs and muslims didn't occupy europe and US , they didn't bomb whole cities killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, inorder to destroy imaginitive nuclear wor heads.they didn't help in killing and expeling millions in order to create a jewish state by force.

Well that is because you cant do it. You dont have enough power to run the slums you call your countries forget about attacking the West.
But if you had even half the chance you people would start attacking other nations and try to take over again. Just like saddam attacked Kuwait.
Moreover the West attacked the slums you call a civilisation because your felllow brethren dont know how to fly in aeroplanes without crashing them into buildings. They are savages and dont know how to sit still in their seat without trying to hijack planes. Because you are such violent beings and your allah has forgotten about you people that is why the West had to waste our valuable time in trying to control you people . The need for this to happen is not called civilisation.
Ask anybody from the West, East or North or South, everybody universally agrees that you Arabs are barbarians and need to be tamed. Even the Eastern nations like India, China etc hate you muslims for your terrorism . The whole world thinks you are criminals and terrorists, do you think they are all wrong ? They even allah cannot save you.

arabs and muslims tought you the principles of true civilization 800 years ago , and we don't want to learn anything your fake western civilization, yes uoy are right ,..no ....civilization means to respect other nations, relegions. to give back their occupied land instead of manipulating and lying, stop using double standards, stop racism against color ,relegion...,etc...stop exploiting other nations resources.

You are right in one way, we did learn one important thing from the arabs, that is to attack other nations and take their land just like how you arabs attacked and took Europe in the 8th century. They then exploited the locals and stole all the money to send it back to middle east. They were only kicked out when the Christians defeated them and drove them away in the 11th century. So just like you Arabs did not return our land 800 years ago when you taught us to occupy other peoples land and take their possesions we are doing it today in Israel. If you gave back Christian lands 800 years ago then maybe you can ask for Palestine today. But since you never gave it back without the West having to kick you out of Europe you dont deserve to get it back.
Another question I want to ask is why do you think that Palestine belongs to the Arabs, even the Prophet mohammad writes in the Koran about King Solomon and how he ruled from Israel but there is no word of Palestine.
Are you saying that Prophet mohammad is wrong ? If he is right, why did he clearly mention the Jews of Israel but not the Palestinians ?

yes they are, but atleast they suffer injuries throwing stones on satan, not like in the west, suffering injuries attending rock concerts worshipping satan sayings.

How do you know that the rock concerts are worshipping Satan? Do you already know how to worship Satan to judge if rock concerts are satanic rituals ?
This is childish talk and I assume with the nonsense you posted you are a little girl who knows little english and want to try to show the world that you muslims are somehow oppressed or somesuch but the world doesnt believe terrorists you see. Thats the problem !

I really have no choice but to come to the conclusion that muslims are the most arrogant and ignorant people on the face of this earth...I don't even want to take part in this debate anymore, it saddens me that the human race has reached such a point. Thank you, religion...

Originally posted by ivansusanin
I really have no choice but to come to the conclusion that muslims are the most arrogant and ignorant people on the face of this earth...I don't even want to take part in this debate anymore, it saddens me that the human race has reached such a point. Thank you, religion...

Just by you saying that proved the opposite . You are the ignorant .You don't one thing about our religion but what your media fed your minds.

No one is the same exact-NO ONE ON THIS FACE OF EARTH IS THE SAME EXIST!!!!
You're stereotyping the influences you see on tv.You are right for the first time. No one should debate with the ignorant. But Dana is not the ignorant- Dana is in the same sitution you are in. You see her as ignorant because she's not on your side and thats obvious. Most zionists don't accept anyone but there own race, Sadly. But Islam accepts all human kind and sees everyone as one race and that's what i been taught as a muslim. Stop screwing this world up more than it is. Don't teach your kids such hypocrisy; i can guarantee you , they will start to see you as nothing but a very sad ignorant father/mother who knows nothing about this world but the words " Islam is ignorant" . Kids would start to go against you to find out what is it you hate. Is it really Islam or is the problem within yourselves.
There was once a wise man that said" People who criticize others are simply low themselves and aren't liking what they see when they look at themselves."
I don't need articles to prove to you anything. I showed verses from the Quran which is what we follow and you still haven't respected.... So it's alright.
May God help you find your way....
Ameeen

Well Salam

[edit on 16-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

Yes I am stereotyping, and rightly so; thanks to people like you, why is it necessary for me to say the opposite? I don't care about religion, I don't care about your confused values, I don't care about your drive for dominance. So please stop bringing it to everybody's attention, then calling us ignorant because we label you as arrogant and obnoxious.

And please don't talk to me about hypocrisy, and how I shouldn't stereotype your people, because you have already done so to mine...I'm not mad, and I promise, I won't come blow up your children and tell you "God wills it"

mspalenstinian said

"Just by you saying that proved the opposite . You are the ignorant .You don't one thing about our religion but what your media fed your minds."

I think it's obvious that it's not our media that's feeding our minds on how bad your people are. We are making these conclusions based on your extreme ignorance and hatred. dana is doing her part while the media makes you guys (I say guys because only guys count or matter enough to have full rights in your culture) look much better than you make yourselves look. You have made your people look far worse than any media could do.

You should stop fighting for the Palestinain cause because they are not fighting for yours. I guess maybe the women like to be treated as sub-human.

There are so many more changes that need to be made in your culture, than any other culture, that you should stop looking outwards and look inwards for a second. Fix your many problems from within and then you may one day be strong enough to strike outwards. Or feel free to strike outwards and I'll watch your people continue to get stomped on CNN.

Originally posted by Mandalorianwarrior
mspalenstinian said

"Just by you saying that proved the opposite . You are the ignorant .You don't one thing about our religion but what your media fed your minds."

I think it's obvious that it's not our media that's feeding our minds on how bad your people are. We are making these conclusions based on your extreme ignorance and hatred. dana is doing her part while the media makes you guys (I say guys because only guys count or matter enough to have full rights in your culture) look much better than you make yourselves look. You have made your people look far worse than any media could do.

You should stop fighting for the Palestinain cause because they are not fighting for yours. I guess maybe the women like to be treated as sub-human.

There are so many more changes that need to be made in your culture, than any other culture, that you should stop looking outwards and look inwards for a second. Fix your many problems from within and then you may one day be strong enough to strike outwards. Or feel free to strike outwards and I'll watch your people continue to get stomped on CNN.

The first thing i saw is MsPalestinian then i looked and quoted to reply...................... You're on ignore!!!! I don't have time for your insults.....

Salam



[edit on 17-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

Ignore those you can not defeat. You're a coward just like the people you defend. You just declared yourself the loser in this debate. Your propagande failed and you couln't brainwash others with your hate. Good luck on turning your life around. I hope it's not too late for you.

You should know better than losing intelligence on a person who does not agree with you. That may be why the Israelis defeat you on a regular basis. They keep tabs on what the other side has to say. You just ignore and don't listen to others who have different views than your own. It makes you powerless and delusional, hence you lose.

Ignore me all you want but the sane people are not going to go away. We will win if you do not lose the hate and love the Jews as your own.

[edit on 17-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

Originally posted by MsPalestinian08
Not because he or she are scared of life or death but because we were ordered to .

Bollocks.
Since when do all muslims do everything that is supposed to be required of them? What is a muslim? A person who states 'there is no god but allah and mohammed is his prophet', what part of that means that its immpossible for someone who said that to bomb a church?
You're effectively stating that all muslims are perfect muslims, which is absurd and clearly incorrect.

So please don't try to put suicide bombers in between -There no different than those soldiers raping our land

Except that the suicide soldiers are specifically targeting civilians, and children at that. And, of course, for the fact that suicide bombing is a stupid and ineffective way to win a war, whereas being an actual soldier in an army is a smart and effective way to win a war.

and i think thats the only problem in Palestine.

The problem in palestine is that there are paramilitary organizations that carry out terror attacks on israeli civilians. If there weren't any such groups, the yehudis won't have to occupy the territory. How can israel ever leave the territory so long as its being used to launch attacks agianst israel? They can't, and they won't.

As far as those pictures, that sort of stuff doesn't happen when you aren't at war with a more powerful country. The yehudis are going to continue doing stuff like that forever so long as there are groups in palestine blowing up civilians in israel.

aren't those Zionists bombing our kids and homes terrorist also?

Nope. The yehudis are responding to attacks coming out of palestine, and are hitting targets that they beleive are people and places involved in those attacks. The mere fact that the palestinians aren't organized into a proper army and that these guys don't wear normal uniforms changes nothing. If the palestinians don't want kids to get shot in the head by the yehudis, then the palestinians wouldn't have the kids attack the yehudis by slinging rocks and bolts and firing bullets at them. If the palestinians don't want civilian casualties as collateral damage from yehudi strikes, then the palestinians would, perhaps , not put their militant organizations next to civlians, no??? I mean, thats not too difficult no?

Most zionists don't accept anyone but there own race, Sadly. But Islam accepts all human kind

"islam" is not an organization, therefore 'islam' accepts nothing. There are worshippers of allah who beleive that mohammed is his prophet who are utterly rejected by other muslims, not even considered to be muslim, so lets not pretend that all of islam is united. As far as 'zionists' not accepting non-jews, what is that even supposed to mean? Firstly, you don't have to be a jew to be a zionist, which is a political movement to establish and maintain the state of israel, secondly, zionists work with non-zionists all the time. Just look at the peace agreements and treaties between the arab governments and yehudi government.

and sees everyone as one race

That is completely incorrect. Muslims in the arabian penninsula engage in racist slave trading. And muslims in the sudan murder, rape, and steal from other muslim ethnicities in the sudan. Not to mention that the shia and sunnis have been at each others throats since the sunnis killed ali's sons.

" People who criticize others are simply low themselves and aren't liking what they see when they look at themselves."

umm, says the person that started a thread calling the yehudi fence a 'wall of shame' for theshamful actions of the yehudis. Maybe its you that is ashamed of the practices of the palestinians, eh?

I showed verses from the Quran which is what we follow

That is an exxageration. Muslims follow the koran, the hadiths, and the rulings of local and powerful religious leaders, not to mention that there are numerous sects within islam that disagree on fundamental things. You earlier stated that 'not everyone is the same' , and yet continue to make the absurd statement that all muslims follow the koran properly.

aceofbase
Ms. Palestinian, you still didn't answer the question as to how far back your family can trace it's Palestinian roots. I'm curious as to what the answer is.

What the heck does that matter? How far back can most of the yehudis trace their roots back to yehudia? Hell, the vast majority of them can't. How 'far back' is necessary to be able to have a valid claim that you are a particular nationality or not? The Palestinians are a mix of arabs and hebrews, they are an interbreeding population with other nearby arabs and jews native to the region. Does this resolve any issues are alter any political claims? No.

dana2006
world. west can't forget that arabs and muslims ruled west for more than 800 years and they reaced the gates of Vienna.

The turks fought to the gates of vienna, and were defeated. The moors invaded spain, but were stopped from spreading to the interior by The Hammer. Muslims never ruled the west, let alone arab muslims. But yes, the west was backwards compared to the east in the middle ages. Now, the reverse applies.

arabs and muslims didn't occupy europe and US , they didn't bomb whole cities killing hundreds of thousands of civilians,

So what? All that means is that the arabs and muslims, as a group, are weak. The biggest attack against the west to come out of the middle east was 911, and that killed cf 3k people. That doesn't mean it wasn't an attack, that doesn't mean that the west can't respond by invading the countries in the middle east that it finds threatening.

arabs and muslims tought you the principles of true civilization 800 years ago

Lets get something straight. The east was in far advance upon the west primarily because the east was able to retain and learn from the classical philosophical and scientific texts that it preserved. The west fell into the dark ages because theocratic governments took control and destroyed the sources of that classical knowledge. Once that knowledge was regained in the west, you had the rennaisance, the enlightenment, and the age of reason, the ultimate products of which are the US and European liberal democracies and their culture of having an open society and rigourous application of the scientific method. That permited the west to leap far ahead of the east.
So who taught the west to be truly civilized? The same people that taught the east, the greeks, egyptians, and romans.

civilization means to respect other nations, relegions[...]stop exploiting other nations resources.

? Since when?

to give back their occupied land

What? Heck no. Civilization has nothing to do with giving back territory that you seized in war. If the palestinians didn't want to be occupied, they shouldn't have gone to war, or at least shouldn't've lost it!

Please, everyone, on all sides of the discusion, please try not to hit 'quote' and then add a short reply, please do not make 'big quotes' and short responses

Thankyou.

I could be wrong, but wasn't the only reason "Islam" was so excepting of other religions way back when is because of the taxes that were put forth upon the "Christians" and "Jews". Did the Palestinian people get the short end of the stick when the United Nations divided the land? Yes. Should Isreal give it back? No. Thinking that by removing the Jews from the "Holy" land all the woes of the "Muslims" will be gone is a pathetic attempt at rationalizing the segregation of people. In essence that way of thinking was use in the U.S.A. with concerns to the blacks.
Why not get the three major religions of the area together, you know Judeism and the two rip-offs, all of them make a pact that 1. all religions will be excepted and valued within Jerusalem. 2. no acts of violence will be committed what so ever, be it military or paramilitary in origin. 3. No razing of holy sites. 4. Any failure of the above and whatever party and/or religious group has it's leader or leaders go before a tribunal at the Hague and... As for the the other areas of Israel, majority rules. If the area is largely Muslim then they do what they will, same goes for the Jews.
I must also let it be known that in the past ten years I have lost quite a bit of respect and sympathy for the Palestinian people, solely for their inaction of reigning in cold-blooded, religously backed killers. To whomever said that killing civilians is comparable to what the Isreali army does is pathetic. Why don't you switch that scenerio around then try and support it then?
Or maybe I'm wrong. The Jews should leave so that way when the country goes to hell in a handbasket, the western world can bail them out with financial aid. You all know how giving the oil magnates are in the middle east.

Originally posted by sammael
Why not get the three major religions of the area together, you know Judeism and the two rip-offs, all of them make a pact

It's simply utopic that any compromise can be made...They're already together, I can't imagine WHAT would be necessary to make some kind of diplomatic agreement, especially between religions...

Remember, all three sides have conservatives, extremists and secular observers; a certain pact cannot represent the interests of each one of the people that follow a given religion. There will always be some jackass that gets up and says "Hey that's not right", and we're back to square one.

Christianity and Judaism have a certain bond, there's no animosity (unless you count some deranged individuals, which I'm SURE Mspalestinian will bring to all of our attention)...Islam is the black sheep.

And all this "can't we all just get along" crap doesnt function as long as there's people people like Dana or Mspalestinian herself...

Originally posted by ivansusanin

Originally posted by sammael


And all this "can't we all just get along" crap doesnt function as long as there's people people like Dana or Mspalestinian herself...

Thanks, I didn't want to have to say it myself.

Originally posted by ivansusanin
I really have no choice but to come to the conclusion that muslims are the most arrogant and ignorant people on the face of this earth...I don't even want to take part in this debate anymore, it saddens me that the human race has reached such a point. Thank you, religion...

Ohhh what a relief ....when a hypocrite , arrogant russian murderous leaves this site. go and find a way to stop your government's atrocities in chechnya, and pray for God's forgiveness.

Originally posted by Mandalorianwarrior
You're also making up the 99% of all Arabs in movies being represented as negative. I'd like to see you name a list of movies on that one.


Are you blind , every film produced in hollywood, includes atleast one stereotype about arabs and muslims...greedy arab sheiks, muslim terrorists, arabs riding camels...etc.

Most terrorist activities are committed by Muslim extremists.


I think you also should read british government's reports about Palestine, when most of Israeli Primeministers used to be teroorists, killing british officers and palestinian civilians, Mnahiem Baygen was on the wanted list of british government , after 30 years western governments gave him noble prize for peace.

You're such hypocrites when it benefits yourselves.


Text Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty to charges of denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years , at the same time, westerners call it "freedom of speech" when someone draws cartoons of Prophet Mohammed insulting more than one billion Muslims. what do you call this attitude of westerners,?pure hypocracy or what???


Maybe we are fighting on the side of Israel in the Middle East because they are the good side.

Text What do you call this attidue ? isn't it pure racism ..very obvious .anti-arab and anti-islam sentiments

as a matter of fact I thought most westerners don't believe all relegious crap, and that you are living in secular world....oh I forget that you believe only in jewish theories about the promised land , and being one of the chosen people by god (isn't it racism to belieive in that).

Originally posted by IAF101


I live in the US, I dont care whether you arabs reached the north pole or took over china. It matters little what you did 800 hundred years ago.



It is better to say, "I don't know" instead of "I don't care" because it's known about Americans that they are naive and ignorant , when you ask them about other nations' history. everybody knows that average american is living to spend his income at the end of the week, watch football, eat junk food, drink beer , pee, and curse everything. so don't waste my time or yours by discussing your government's twisted policies or other nations history.


as even the western civilsation trashed your Ottaman empire and divided it up into little peices and used you all as slaves.

I am glad finally you are showing your real ugly face...slaves??!! I think it is a good case for arabs and muslims, to sue all western nations and ask for compensation, or is it allowed only for jews to sue others and ask for compensation.


Also do not forget that the Crusaders pushed back the Muslims and took back the holy land from the Arabs. The Muslims have been since Mohammeds death a violent barbaric people and they revel in this violence. The West has long since given up such shallow pride and gone for more meaning full pursuits of development.

Text Ohhh poor westerners... you were always peaceful, non-violent angels. millions of native americans (Maya..etc) commited suicide because they were depressed. sapaniards , portogese, british , french, dutch , armies did'nt touch one of them , these civilizations disappeared by themselves. Jerusalem’s streets were flooded by the blood of arab muslims, christians and jews, for no reasons , don't ever think that this genocide was commited by the crusaders, knights of the holy cross, who were sent by the pope. Please try one day to read the history of the crusades, which is written by one of the western Orientals , so you can take a look at the great history of the christian armies of the crusades. Oh lets don't forget about Vietnam, american soldiers were very peceful over there, what about Iraq, hundreds thousands of civilian Casualties... yeah I heard your excuse for this kind of casualties...collateral damage...you westerners are very merciful.

This thread is about the Palestine Wall and not about history. You can feel happy that once upon a time the cut throat kalifs were able to take control of some parts of Europe but this means little to the Palestine people and the world today.


Text Oh i am glad that you are feeling with palestinians for a change... atleast muslims cut their enemies throughts, instead of raping them like what american female soldiers are doing in Abu ghrieb prison, what a civilized merciful army


As for your west is already scared of them, that is your delusion. The Muslims today are nothing without their oil which will last them another 200 years max after which you will return to the bedouins you were. The West wasnt afraiod to raise Islamist controlled Afganistan to ground nor was it afraid to take on Saddam nor will it be afraid to take on any other Arab state.


Text See what's the difference between arabs and westerners?? when arabs were ruling the world , and when they Conquer a western country, they used to ask the defeated western country to pay taxes, and ask their pretty girls to marry them. look at your description of what western armies do to arab and muslim countries...who is the barbaric, violent now?

The reason the West has taken over these states is not because they think that 800 years ago some Muslims took Europe or other such Text


Text NONESENS...please stop being american and try to read one decent source of history that speaks about ARAB AND MUSLIM CIVILIZATION....pleeeese .

but becasue the Muslims have through their poverty and illitrecy become a bunch of terrorists and criminals and the West has come to restore order in your lawless region. You should be thankfull for this, for showing the arab world civilisation and democracy both of which are too advanced for the arab people to understand.


Text wow you westerners are really heroes I salute your kind selfless hearts...did you ask your self one silly question...where did disappear all the arab oil money? I will tell you . The dictators who are appointed by western governments to torture arab citizens (so they can control arab countries resources with cheap prices) for the last 50 years, spend them having fun with western hookers

Which madrassa did you hear this from ?


Text I didn't here it in madrasa ... once again ... I beg you to read some history , instead of watching football, stop showing the worl your ignorance

Did you know that you Muslims still dont bath everyday, only on Fridays! Thats why you people use so much ither!


Text you know why ? because poor israel occupied all water sources in the middleeast, and left the other countries with very little water to use


. Have you no knowledge of the bath houses of the Romans, the Macedonians ? Obviously your madrassa has forgotten to mention that.

Text once again , I am not talking about romans or greeks, I am talking about europeans in 10th -19th centuries, do you consider yourself the offspring of romans...hahaha.. romans extingted long time ago ...americans are offsprings of the lowest classes in europe ...just FYI.

Yes, I have read of the palaces of Andalusia and also of the works of that time but that is was in the 8th century, do you think that what you Muslims accomplished a millenia and a half ago has some significance today ? NO. Your attitude is just as it was in the 8th century, except now you have no lands, no wealth and no power.

Text every civilization has its curve... the american curve is going down...another super power will arise and rule the world very soon ... and I am 80% sure that it's China, so stop bragging....and respect previous civilizations , if you expect other to respect you, and if you really consider youself one of them.



I am a westerner and I dont believe in values ?? Again the same Madrassa nonsense, who brainwashes you like this ? Bin-laden ?


Text I think it's the same madrassa that brainwashed you , and make you say the same nonsense about muslims and arabs...barbaric , violent....terrorists.....the same old sterotypes...I'm reall sick of hearing the same nonesense from you...everyday...growup.


In the West we dont believe in values which treat our women like camels.

Text you respect your women alot in the west , so you use most of them as hookers and prostitutes....I didn't see any female president for the US. 99% of representative and senators in the congress are male...correct me if I'm wrong....what's the biggest dream of 99% of american girls?? to become a cheerleader and show her panties to hundreds of male crowd...wow they are so ambitious.

. We in the west dont belive that allah can ever tell us to wage jihad just because we have some problems.


HELLO...did you hear about the CRUSADES...it means JIHAD in your language...did you hear Mr. bush's speechees...in most of them he mentions ...holy war...I wonder what he means by that??!


We cannot believe that you can lie to an enemy because it doesnt count and we do not belive in revenge and vengence unlike muslims.

OHHH poor Americans....so what was Mr. bush's excuse when he flattened Iraq and Afganistan to the ground...wasn't it revenge....and please stop talking about lying....even your president lie to you in all his speeches.

We dont believe that only if we pray 5 times a day while killing women and children in the spare time we will go to heaven.

Text next time be more accurate when you talk about women and children killers, americans, russians and israelis are the most active killers in this category.



I know all about your values and your customs! Dont try to fool me, I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years. Even there they treat all you other muslims as second class, some values you people have !

I think it's not your problem...it's between us and saudis, but I blame the saudis who let a racist like you to live in the holy land , and pay you for owning such a heart filld with grudge and hate against arabs and muslims.


Well that is because you cant do it. You dont have enough power to run the slums you call your countries forget about attacking the West.
But if you had even half the chance you people would start attacking other nations and try to take over again. Just like saddam attacked Kuwait.



Wow I didn't know that you consider Kuwait a western country...once again you proove that you are a real ignorant american .....even in geograpgy.....talking about the slums....our countries turned to slums because western governments are exploiting our resources for more the 100 years





Ask anybody from the West, East or North or South, everybody universally agrees that you Arabs are barbarians and need to be tamed. Even the Eastern nations like India, China etc hate you muslims for your terrorism . The whole world thinks you are criminals and terrorists, do you think they are all wrong ? They even allah cannot save you.

because they are afraid of us....we call it islam and arab phobia ...it's not our fault if you don't like us...it means that you have some issues that need quick therapy.


. So just like you Arabs did not return our land 800 years ago .


Text your land??!!! you are american for god's sake...nobody knowa your roots even you...so how come that arab land is yours?!!

when you taught us to occupy other peoples land and take their possesions we are doing it today in Israel. If you gave back Christian lands 800 years ago then maybe you can ask for Palestine today.


Text and who told you that jews will return "your christian land" to you...if you believe in that...allow me to say that you are naive.




Another question I want to ask is why do you think that Palestine belongs to the Arabs, even the Prophet mohammad writes in the Koran about King Solomon and how he ruled from Israel but there is no word of Palestine.
Are you saying that Prophet mohammad is wrong ? If he is right, why did he clearly mention the Jews of Israel but not the Palestinians ?

Text fyi prophet muhammed didn't write the koran ......he's only a messenger ...koran from god...and god forbidden that prophet muhammed said even one thing wrong....sking solomon and jews are mentiond in koran ....so what... it doesn't mean that they own palestaine...what's the link??!!!



This is childish talk and I assume with the nonsense you posted you are a little girl who knows little english and want to try to show the world that you muslims are somehow oppressed or somesuch but the world doesnt believe terrorists you see. Thats the problem !

Text thanks a lot.... where is the freedom of speech of the western world? or it is only for westerners...no need to be so sensetive ....and touchy ...comparing to your talk mine is alot logical and mature. american little boy.

At least learn to quote properly, dana. Go back to your country and blow yourself up for all I care