A wall of Shame in Palestine

Israel = 20,770 square kilometers...
Now look at all the lands Muslims and Arabs have! It's ridiculous to be so territorial, even when you're wrongly convinced it's your land...

Go, buy a land from landowners somewhere, develop it to a brilliant civilization, then face suicide bombers, terrorists and radicals! Only then cry injustice. Only then lay blame.

Maybe any area in the Middle East that is difficult to develop should be given to the Jews and then when it is turned into valuable land everyone can cry and kill themselves to try and get it back. Let everyone else do all the hard work and claim it as your own after it's starting to look like it's worth something.

OK, I might be stretching it a little but there are slight truths to this.

Originally posted by MsPaldestinian08
If we need there aproval to get to Our land [OUR LAND PALESTINE] then how do you excpect us to build a fence to protect ourselves.

Well technically it would be Israel's land because they WON the war you people started and can rightfully do what they wish with the land. But international pressure on the pitiful plight of the Palestinian people has forced Israel to give back Palestine to the Arabs. Also I doubt that you would beed to defend yourselfs because with the drop in suicide bombings there is likely to be a drop in retaliatory IDF incursions into the West bank. Sadly, its all a 'quid pro quo' game in the region.

Stupid for defending themselves?? Seriously
So now we are stupid for defending ourselves.

I would think what MW was trying to imply is that the WAY in which the Palestinians try to exert themselves is stupid as they are up against a totally superior force and they have no hope of winning in any military confrontation.
The stupidity quotient lies in the fact that the palestinians persist in continuing this aggression even thought they realize that it would bring them nothing. They do so only to satisfy their pride, which is pathetic indeed.

Am a 16 year old girl and i visit Palestine every damn year , with same crap getting spit on my face.
I was taught an EYE FOR AN EYE. A LIFE FOR A LIFE.

Very sad that you have been brought up on such shallow morals and such misguided values like these. You are under the false delusion that violence and death are a mark of courage when in fact this is rank cowardice. Any fool can strap himself with a bomb and blow himself up hoping that his act will make a difference but it is the brave who have the courage to live and face up to their challenges to find a solution to their problem. The path of death is a cowardice and escapism nothing more. Your palestinians fighter who have died are all cowards and escapists for "giving up" and trying to "run away" from the problem.
What is wrong is not your cause but your values, your skewed values have destroyed your cause and hopefully your education in America will teach you these values of courage and greatness.

Your cause is not some difficult unwinnable cause nor is it some thing uniques in the history of mankind, greater battles have been fought by humanity through out the ages with much greater results. I could tell you of the Black struggle in America under Martin Luther King.Jr or the struggle against apartheid in South africa but perhaps the greatest struggle that maybe you can relate to is the Struggle for Freedom by Gandhi.
You would do well to understand these great struggles and do well to incorporate them into your own struggles. Remember anything gained through violence is only temporary.

So don't expect me to shut my mouth up here. Its enough i shut my mouth in my land but here?? Please.
We will show you what we are made up of.

If you wont open your mouth in Palestine, what makes you think that you have a greater right here ??

All that the palestinians people have shown so far is that they are a sad representation of humanity, resortiung to savagery and barbarian tactics when the going gets tough. People with skewed values who have forgotten what they are fighting for !

Thank you IAF101, I agree with all you have said and it was very well put together. You were exactly correct in explaining what I meant. Heck, you explained what I was thinking better than I was able to. One must be able to evaluate a situation and desired outcome, resources and potential courses of action if they truly hope to achieve military and/or political victory. I don't think any of these things are being factored into the responses of the Palestinian people or governing body.

This is such a sad topic because I really do not feel the Palestinians are trying to make this work peacefully. There is no peaceful solution that would blow the Jewish state of Israel off the face of the earth and that is all that will make most of them happy. I am very afraid when thinking about the future of this situation. I don't see it getting any better before it gets MUCH worse.

[edit on 13-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

Originally posted by MsPalestinian08
Don't tell me that -You would sit around watch someone punch you then laugh about it.Doesn't that have a price. Messsing with pride??

The smart wouldnt get punched in the first place! If you punch back what do you get= another punch. You either knock him out or run like hell, there is no glory in dying !

Also what "pride" are you talking about ?What exactly makes the Palestinians so proud ?? What have you accomplished, what have you gained ? I see and much of the world sees nothing that you can be so proud about. Yes it is right for you to have self-respect but pride ? If I were a palestinian I wouldnt be proud of what is happening in Palestine neither would I be proud of how the situation is being handled. If anything I would be SAD.

Its not like the palestinian people have acheive something great in the last 5 decades has it ? Sure they have gained notoriety as a desperate people but isnt something to brag about is it? You have a right to be proud when you have acheived something commendable, like say palestinian independence without bloodshed or total integration into Israel as equal partners, but instead the palestinian people have destroyed any respect they had in the world by electing a group like Hamas as their representatives.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Agaion, MsP, you dodge and duck questions and make assertions with NO facts while ignoring history.
The questions you rhetorically ask are very basic 101 questions, and I am quite sure you ignore the facts that are contrary to what you wish the answers were.

I'll go and find some posts that have alrady been made that cover a lot of your misperceptions. I'm nice like that. I'll put them in that other thread, the one created so that threads won't get derailed.

One more thing....nobody told you where to go; it was asked WHY DON"T you go. There is quite a difference.

What kind of history do you want me to show you.
If i showed you real pictures -You called propaganda. Then how do you expect history to process in your head. You build your own history then call it history. How about those Jews that are against a Jewish State.

Would you explain this to me?

Rabbi Samson Raphael HirschAs the most renowned German Jewish leader of the nineteenth century, Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch wrote:

“Thus, Jews are enjoined to perform a most precarious balancing act. On the one hand there is the obligation to act in an honest, empathetic, loyal and patriotic manner towards the nation in which they dwell. This obligation extends to Jewish relations with all peoples living within the nation. On the other hand, there is a need for spiritual and to some extent social isolation in order to practice the Torah and preserve Jewish survival. Inclining too far to either side of this dichotomy can result in much evil and confusion. In the proper balance, though, lies the fulfillment of Jewish destiny. And, combined with the yearning for the Messiah, it is the only recipe for the world's salvation. ”

Do these words of the Zionists represent YOU?Read the words of the Zionists and decide for yourself if Zionism represents your interests and beliefs.
Words of the Zionists - Today's Quote
Jacob KlatzkinZionist Ideologist

In 1921, Germans in Germany were told that:

“We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German; whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“.

Originally posted by MsPalestinian08
How about those Jews that are against a Jewish State.
Would you explain this to me?

How many of them do you see ? One-Two-Three-Four-Five! Five people who disagree with the concept of Zionism is insignificant. Unlike Islam where a cleric can issue a Fatwa at the drop of a hat, Judaism is more liberal where everyone can express thier own views on the matters of religion without having a fatwa against his name. Judaism is secure enough to accept dissent.

Do these words of the Zionists represent YOU?Read the words of the Zionists and decide for yourself if Zionism represents your interests and beliefs.

What is wrong with what the Rabbi said ? The Rabbi make a very good point about the people who are faithfull to their religion whilest they still maintain their loyalty to their nationality. Something you can learn and use to better youirself. You claim to be an immigrant to the US but you show no loyalty to the US or its values, you should follow this Zionists values and try to emulate them.


[edit on 13-3-2006 by IAF101]

Price of eggs in china as far as I am concerned...
Israel IS there now...
Unless the arabs want to toss again, then ISRAEL will stay...

I dont think they have any right to the land, other than the fact they fought for it and earned it...(spoils of war) but then they did something stupid by letting the previous settlers stay, and infact invite the rest of the family...

Israel should have pulled no punches, kicked the whole lot out, and beleive it or not, we wouldn't be having this conversation now... and MSPalestinian would be MSlebanese or whoever, and probably have a much nicer attitude towards the west, and even israel... (and wouldn't know a soul that was killed/hurt by israel personally)

Why i say that?

because there wouldn't have been 50 odd years of hatred/resentment being BRED into the next generation of children...
years have a tendency to cure hatred, as long as it isn't nurtured... (japan, USA, hello)

the next generation would have already forgotten about the trials of the Palestinian exodus following the jewish war... and there would have been little negative interaction between the two...

But hey, Israel was nice enough to let the previous residents stay, and doing so, caused the most screwed up roomate situation ever seen, and it still plays out daily.

Personally, as of now... I hope both cultures solve it, or shove it... but for gods sake STOP IT...

The palestinians/allies lost... and if they dont like the terms of the occupation, then leave...
Instead Palestinians have decided to wage a silent war on Israel to expel the "winners", that could never be won in the open. Then when Israel defends itself, or attacks in reprisal (lets not lie, there are lots of innocents that get killed) the Palestinians all cry to the world court of public opinion, in hopes that the world will forget:
That the palestinian people no longer have a right to that land.
They lost

They dont have the moxy for a rematch yet, so they will continue to try to sabotage, sneak attack, martyr themselves, and in short, do anything that hurts israel, outside an outright declaration of war...

And please dont get me wrong... If palestine was somehow able to turn around and kick israel out by winning a declared war, then i would be saying the same thing about Israel...

To me, it has nothing to do with religion, or history, other than who won the last fight. (or who surrenderd)
everything else is neccessary tragedy by situation... war is hell

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

Israel should have pulled no punches, kicked the whole lot out, and beleive it or not, we wouldn't be having this conversation now... and MSPalestinian would be MSlebanese or whoever, and probably have a much nicer attitude towards the west, and even israel... (and wouldn't know a soul that was killed/hurt by israel personally)

because there wouldn't have been 50 odd years of hatred/resentment being BRED into the next generation of children...
years have a tendency to cure hatred, as long as it isn't nurtured... (japan, USA, hello)

You make a very good point. I have to tell you, though, that making the Palestinians leave would have probably been impossible, unless it was a massive military operation or some kind of bull# like those ethnic cleansing tactics used by so many nations before...

And then there's always the fact that if you cut a weed, the roots remain...

[edit on 13-3-2006 by ivansusanin]

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by MsPalestinian08
How about those Jews that are against a Jewish State.
Would you explain this to me?

How many of them do you see ? One-Two-Three-Four-Five! Five people who disagree with the concept of Zionism is insignificant. Unlike Islam where a cleric can issue a Fatwa at the drop of a hat, Judaism is more liberal where everyone can express thier own views on the matters of religion without having a fatwa against his name. Judaism is secure enough to accept dissent.

Do these words of the Zionists represent YOU?Read the words of the Zionists and decide for yourself if Zionism represents your interests and beliefs.

What is wrong with what the Rabbi said ? The Rabbi make a very good point about the people who are faithfull to their religion whilest they still maintain their loyalty to their nationality. Something you can learn and use to better youirself. You claim to be an immigrant to the US but you show no loyalty to the US or its values, you should follow this Zionists values and try to emulate them.


[edit on 13-3-2006 by IAF101]

Threee or ten ,It don't matter , They know the truth AND ARE FOLLOWERS OF THE TORAH.
And please don't put Islam in between because Islam has nothing to do with this topic. Well i don't have time to reply to all ur replies. Gtg study but when i do ,I'll get back to you on that..............

SALAM

I dont understand why you persist...are you out to prove something? You're just further tarnishing your image, leave it be...

palestine is being invaded, and they are looked at as monsters for using the few resources they have to fight back...

that just disgusts me

we go into kuwait to protect oil from saddam, but we won't stop israel from taking over palestinian land.

[edit on 13-3-2006 by ivansusanin]

I strongly suggest you read some of the posts, and maybe a bit of Israeli history before this issue starts "disgusting" you. Comparing the Aliyah to the American global conquest for oil is ridiculous.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Your title for the thread is very well put.

"A Wall of Shame in Palestine"

Yes, it is a wall of shame. It is a shame that the wall had to be put up to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing innocent Jews who are trying to make something of themsleves. It's a shame that Palestinian actions have caused the wall to be put in place. The shame is on Palestinians who teach their children to hate and blow up others in cowardly suicide attacks. I hope these suicide bombers enjoy there stay in hell, if there is a hell worse than what the Palestinians are creating.

It'[s joke that you cling to every sad little thing you can come up with like the picture of 5 Jews who agree with you. WOW, that really is something. You will not find many Palestinians who will side with the Jews cause it's my guess they would be killed. Nice job with your last election by the way. You chose your own death with that one.

Originally posted by Mandalorianwarrior
Your title for the thread is very well put.

"A Wall of Shame in Palestine"

Yes, it is a wall of shame. It is a shame that the wall had to be put up to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing innocent Jews who are trying to make something of themsleves. It's a shame that Palestinian actions have caused the wall to be put in place. The shame is on Palestinians who teach their children to hate and blow up others in cowardly suicide attacks. I hope these suicide bombers enjoy there stay in hell, if there is a hell worse than what the Palestinians are creating.

It'[s joke that you cling to every sad little thing you can come up with like the picture of 5 Jews who agree with you. WOW, that really is something. You will not find many Palestinians who will side with the Jews cause it's my guess they would be killed. Nice job with your last election by the way. You chose your own death with that one.

Keeep on insulting me .... Keeep on doing that . ....I can promise it don't hurt me anymore lol...... So here i give u the permission - Isn't that what you were created for? You come around creating the same old history- and as i said before you build up your own history in our land then show your media and your fellaAAAA Americans that you were created there ..... and am not gonna argue about that any longer -I am giving my problems to the one above and he will find something for you people....

Palestine will rule you alll over one day.... Just live and watch!! I promise

Alrightyyyyy.

Yallah Salamzzzzzzzzzzzzz




[edit on 14-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

MsPalestinian08, please don’t waste your time talking to westerners about Palestinian agony. They would keep hating Arabs an Muslims no matter what you do or say. Their grudge and hatred against Arabs and Muslims is situated deep in their hearts. They feel deep inside that they are the real aggressors, hypocrites, self-centered, cowards, liars, and above all that, they use double standards. Let me show how western logic works in dealing with Arabs and Muslims. They were following every word and method of “The protocols of the learned elders of Zion” in shaping the middle east according to Israeli criteria, in order to establish the great Israel that will finally govern the whole world . They keep saying that Islam is a religion of violence because of the “Jihad” and that Christianity and Judaism are peaceful religions. Did they forget that Jews brag that David was king of sword and that he even wrestled with God and defeated him?! Did they forget that the peaceful Israelis are slaughtering Palestinians civilians for the last 50 years. What’s their excuse? One of the Zionist elders dreamed 100 years ago that there is a land without people in the middle east , waiting for Jews to go their and build there promised land as their bible says 10000***years ago. So one of the stupid British prime ministers , promised to give them that empty land. But unfortunately this land which was called Palestine , millions of people were living there for thousand of years ago and it wasn’t empty. They say Christianity is a peaceful religion, did they forget everything about the crusades? What does crusades mean? It was a religious war. Read the history and find out how western Christian priest-soldiers , slaughtered thousands of Muslims, Jews and Christians in the holy land. The streets of Jerusalem flooded with their blood. Peaceful religion…ha!
Western governments claim that they follow secular system and they don’t mix religion with politics, but at the same time they believe the Israeli religious claims about the “chosen people” and the “ promised land”. “The protocols of the learned elders of Zion” mentioned that Zionism cant control the middle east without scattering it to cantons. France an Great Britain , cut one big Arab caliphate to more than 20 pieces, and created very weak vulnerable Arab entities governed by dictators assigned by western governments , and kept more than 200 million Arabs suffering from the injustice of these violent dictatorships for the last 100 years. Westerners claim that Germany slaughtered 6 million Jews, guess who is paying for that genocide? Palestinians. The victim became the aggressor, the peaceful Israelis are killing Palestinian civilians by using American F-16 and Apaches. All western world feeling sorry for the poor Israelis because those vicious Palestinian are daring to turn themselves to suicide bombers because this is the only thing they can do to try to get the world attention to recognize their rights and give them back their land , occupied by Israelis 50 years ago, and some idiot on this site says, that she or he doesn’t like this method of fighting the occupation forces, and that she prefers the Gandhi method of fighting, by baring his upper body and go to sea to collect some salt and do some yoga. These methods do not work with murderous Israeli “defense forces” sweety. As I told you before the victim turned to a serial killer. I can go on and on describing the western double standard and hypocrisy but I’m bored now, once again, MsPalestinian08 , don’t’ waste your time arguing with westerners. One day Arabs and Muslims will get rid of the western appointed dictators and will control their own fate, then we will squeeze their balls as Zionists do to them for the last 300 years. Then westerners will respect us and will put in jail or destroy anyone who says anti- Islam or anti-Arab slogans …patience my friend.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by MsPalestinian08
In Palestine? LOL thanks for making me laugh....Keep on convincing yourself ........

Yea ilive in U.S. Raised here also.
This is God's world -Not urs so don't tell me where i should and shouldn't live.
We are immigrants ................

Yes the Jews were originally from Palestine/Israel and Egypt.
They've lived there for thousands of years, although in small numbers.

Most of the muslims who call themsleves Palestinians can only trace back their 'Palestinian' roots to the 1800s or later.

The ones who can date their ancestry back further than that are the descendants of muslim invaders who stole the Christian and Jewish holy land so they have no right to complain about Jews taking that land back.

How far back do your 'Palestinian' roots go?

EDIT:
BTW: Why did your parents choose to live in the US instead of moving to a muslim country?
Why do so many muslims, many of whom seem to hate the west, choose to live in non-muslim countries?

[edit on 12-3-2006 by AceOfBase]

So are you a Christian? If so, are you currenly dwelling outside of the Levant? If so you realize of course that by your own sentiment, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to live wherever you are right now, correct?

After all, it was someone else's turf before it was yours, wasn't it? The descendants of whatever local Native tribe, if you're American, are in fact the rightful owners of your land - I presume that you would willingly pack your bags and leave if they expressed an interest in having it back?

...

Probably not, right? So, what, is this just a special standard you hold for Arabs, or is it that you think Jews have more right to ancestral land than any other human being on earth? What's the deal, exactly, with the whole "They deserve it because they used to live there" stuff?

I think it is where you are born or what religion you are is how you feel on this issue. If you are American the majority are on one side. If you are Arabic you are on another. The media on both sides give a view. Which side is right? You what to know what none of them are. The state of Israel has been jerks. The Palestians have been jerks. The Arab countries have been jerks. Europe has been jerks. The United States has been jerks. Heck, I have been a jerk.

Palestinians have some legitimate issues. Israelis have some legitimate issues. Guess what you both have to live together forever. Israel is not going away. A Palestine state is not going away. Both sides are armed (Overtly by the USA to Israel, and Palestine covertly with Arab countries.) People say American weapons kill Palestians. People say Arab weapons kill Israelis. Guess what both are right. But most people only want to see one side of the story based on there country or religion. One side see a freedom fighter, one side sees a terrorist. One side sees an occupation force. One side sees an army protecting its citizens. Palestinians want the right of return. But gloss over the same amount of Jews were kicked out of Islamic countries about the same time. The hate is so strong on both sides no one knows how to stop the violence; because we need revenge. If I was born in the Gaza strip. I bet I would hate Israel, and feel they stole my land. If I was born in Tel Avi, I would think Palestians are terrorists. If I was born Islamic I would think Israel is a bunch of Infidels. If I was born Jewish I would think Islam is not a religion of peace, but of war and intolerance. This has been dragged out so many years, and probably will be for many more. The solution will happen in time. Palestine gets West Bank and Gaza. Jerusalem is a world city under United Nations mandate open to all religions. (And no weapons) Israel the rest. Over simplified yes, but maybe that is what we need.