300,000+ Chicago Protestors Rally Against Immigration Bill

I am a Legal immigrant, originally from DR. Haiti’s neighbor. True American let me give you this example:
There are aprox. 9 million people living in DR, we have the same problem as you so I feel your pain. Close to 3 million Haitians reside illegally in the country.
They have different language, and even though DR is a third world Country, the living standards are higher than Haiti.

True American, is undeniable this Illegal immigrants broke the law.

Is undeniable this Illegal immigrants are using lots of federal and state recourses.

Is undeniable the majority of them don’t pay taxes ( some of them have funny papers so they do pay taxes although they don’t file).

I have to agree that this is the mayor problem.

Jack is on the money of course. (that makes two of us at least)

I condemn any person that goes to another country and breaks the law, you are a guest and as such you should respect the laws while you are in the house of your hostess.

So true American lets see if you live to your reputation, Americans are suppose to be bold.

You have two scenarios.

1 Build the wall, start a new War lets call it War on Vatos, go to Congress and get a budget lets say 200 million,
Since this immigrants are here Illegaly, the law is behind you, deport them all, including their children since they were born Illegally.

2 Reform the entire Immigration Program, legalize all undocumented workers that have not been in jail, educate immigrants on the history of this country and its values. Empower them if not with the right to vote at least with some kind of Union that will represent them in the workplace.

True American guest what no matter wich option you take the end is the same, the America you knew growing up is in decline, it will never be the same.
Rant, Cry, yell, I will even advise you to join the Minute man project if it makes you happy. It won’t change a thing. I am sorry to be the one to let you know is a lost battle.
You can either cry for the country diying or join in the new emerging America.
Listen to some Reggueton, take a couple of Spanish classes, try the food, I don’t know look at the glass half full.

Originally posted by marg6043
IF you leave your door open in your house do you expect
nobody to come through that door uninvited?

VERY good point marg.

If you leave your door open, people who don't belong will
come in and take advantage of you and your household
goods. Theft will be the ultimate goal of the intruders.

Time to LOCK the door, deadbolt it, and install a security system!

You can blame the Mexican government, the illegal
immigrants or the man in the moon for it.

The president of Mexico says it's his right to send illegals over the
boarder. He says a security wall would be against their 'rights'
to come here illegally. He's using this country as a dumping
ground to be rid of gangs, mafia types, and criminals from his
country. They mix in with the regular illegals and come here
en masse.

So yes, I very much blame the Mexican government. More than
anyone I blame them. They know exactly what is going on and
they encourage it. That way, they don't have to take care of
the under-educated in that country (just ship them here), and
they don't have to deal with the criminals either. Having all
the illegals come here is good for the Mexican economy. They
send 3/4 of the money they make back to Mexico and they don't
use up any of the Mexican social services.

It's a grand deal for Mexico. Very grand.

[edit on 3/14/2006 by FlyersFan]

Lokito, me estoy riendo, pero no para las razones que tu pienzas, o por las razones que tu ha mencionado... (Just for your info, I spent 6 years in the DR, and a couple in Costa Rica, so yeah, I speak fluent spanish...Thank God, or I'd have a hard time making it around here in Atlanta.)

Oh, by the way, we got any T&C's against posting in spanish? I'm sure anyone reading this who only speaks english won't mind... And no, that is not the translation to what is written above...

Bottom line is: I think you're dead wrong about this not changing. Too many americans are screaming about it, and that's why they passed this bill.

Hell, just the other night I was listening to a radio show and one guy came on saying he's out of work, totally displaced in the construction business by illegal Mexicans. This guy had worked hard all his life here and has a family to support. After 18 years in the business, attaining master carpenter status, and used to making $19 to $25/hr, his contractors are now only hiring the illegals, because they'll work from $6 to $8 an hour on average, and $10/hr for a real experienced one.

And don't even start with the "oh that's competitive market pricing, and he should be able to work for that too" crap. For his skills and experience, that's what WAS competitive market pricing, until the ILLEGALS moved in. I don't buy it, it sucks all the way around, and I hope to God you have a green card, lokito if you're in the US.

[edit on 14-3-2006 by TrueAmerican]

Hell, just the other night I was listening to a radio show and one guy came on saying he's out of work, totally displaced in the construction business by illegal Mexicans. This guy had worked hard all his life here and has a family to support. After 18 years in the business, attaining master carpenter status, and used to making $19 to $25/hr, his contractors are now only hiring the illegals, because they'll work from $6 to $8 an hour on average, and $10/hr for a real experienced one.

So, if these immigrants were legal, and working for 6-8 an hour, would that make it better? It's capitalism, you've got to take the good with the bad.

Ras, if the immigrants were legal, and could be hired legally, I would venture to say that they would probably not work for that in the absense of all the other illegals. Because in the other scenario, chances are that he or she would have grown up in the system, gained the experience in our system, and realized what his or her experience was worth. And therefore would make what the prevailing rate was. Don't you see that the sheer ability of the illegal to work that cheap for cash, under the table, and not have the employer penalized is one aspect of this that hurts the system?

There's also the issue of the quality of the work, and oh boy, I best not go there lest I open up a whole nuther can of tequila worms.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Lokito, me estoy riendo, pero no para las razones que tu pienzas, o por las razones que tu ha mencionado...

(Just for your info, I spent 6 years in the DR, and a couple in Costa Rica, so yeah, I speak fluent spanish...Thank God, or I'd have a hard time making it around here in Atlanta.)

For somebody that is so outrage with spanish illegals you are pretty good at spanish language.

Hablas muy bien a pesar que eres gringo

BTW tu estas en Atlanta y yo en Albany.

The ONLY winners in a system that allows illegal immigrants to steal jobs from legal immigrants is the employers...

the employees get the shaft... I know... I have worked with illegals and legals...

legals get paid more, and get better benefits...
illegals get paid little, and fired the minute they cut a toe off, or lose a finger...

Legals contribute to society from which they draw benefit..
illegals just screw the legals out of more opportunity and money...

If i were a legal mexican immigrant (aka an AMERICAN) I would be pissed at those that get in so easy...

We need to make entrance easier, but documented taxation records are neccessary to stop all this talk of stealing jobs...
once employers have to pay tax for every employee, the benefits of hiring illegals goes totally away...
and so does the demand... and so does the influx,

solves everything...

lol, awe cmon marg, surely you remember the Foreign Language Signs podcast? You argued with me on that one, too. Ahh, but gotta love it...

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
lol, awe cmon marg, surely you remember the Foreign Language Signs podcast? You argued with me on that one, too.

Ahh, but gotta love it...

I remember but it took me a while to link both together, I kind of have a short memory when it comes to members and debates but I do remember that one I just forgot it was by you.

Now Lazarus the first job I held in Albany one month after I moved in, was with a lawyer that specialize at the moment with immigrant laws and workers comp.

They actually do not have it as easy as many thing, at least with the cases I participated with.

And many are taken advantage off.

The trouble makers will do what they will do to survive, but the honest and hard working ones are usually taken advantage off by employers

[edit on 14-3-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
...once employers have to pay tax for every employee, the benefits of hiring illegals goes totally away...
and so does the demand... and so does the influx,

solves everything...

Well sorta, but what about the wage difference issue? If illegals continue to work for so cheap, we are screwed either way.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
If illegals continue to work for so cheap, we are screwed either way.

AND if they continue to work for so cheap ... take low education
jobs from Americans thus making us pay out more unemployment
and welfare ... and if they continue to not pay taxes ... and they
continue to suck off the economy ... we are still screwed.

So back to the original reason for the author to post -
the 300,000 protestors in Chicago demanding the right
to have illegals here. Bad bad bad!!

[edit on 3/15/2006 by FlyersFan]

True American I think you are missing the point. You say the Illegals are comming and taking jobs.

If I lost my job due to an Illegal inmigrant then I wasn't supposed to have that job to begin with, no matter how much experience I had, I got replace by somebody that is doing the job cheaper and most times will work harder than me. I should try to stop the employer from firing me and convince him that his decision is affecting the very fabric of the country.

Do you think he/she cares?

Globalization is taking away jobs from Americans;
Illegal Immigration is taking job from Americans.
Big corporations keep merging and taking away jobs from Americans,
even the ports were being sold to foreigners,
Very soon even the military decisions would be made using foreign intelligence.

I would not support anybody coming in to any country Illegally,
it just doesn’t make sense to work hard and not be represented in the government or their policies.

Welcome to New World Order, Americans still hold one card, CREDIT.
This is the richest country in the world, if you play your cards right you can start your own business easier than any other part of the world.

Don’t see the Illegal Aliens as the virus making this economy decline, it is just a symptom of the bigger Epidemic taking over the Globe.

Please analyze the riots in FRANCE from this point of view, Illegal Immigrants made that mess, French society is as fragmented as ours. Some say the French GOV. response to this problem was weak. I would love to know your opinion on their position.

Originally posted by LoKito
True American I think you are missing the point. You say the Illegals are comming and taking jobs.

Well actually, I hear you but I think FlyersFan got the point moreso than I missed it:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
AND if they continue to work for so cheap ... take low education
jobs from Americans thus making us pay out more unemployment
and welfare ... and if they continue to not pay taxes ... and they
continue to suck off the economy ... we are still screwed.

So back to the original reason for the author to post -
the 300,000 protestors in Chicago demanding the right
to have illegals here. Bad bad bad!!

Thanks FF, glad you summed this up all so nicely.

Originally posted by LoKito
If I lost my job due to an Illegal inmigrant then I wasn't supposed to have that job to begin with, no matter how much experience I had, I got replace by somebody that is doing the job cheaper and most times will work harder than me. I should try to stop the employer from firing me and convince him that his decision is affecting the very fabric of the country.

Thanks to the passing of this bill, you won't have to And your first sentance there makes no sense to me whatsoever. That's like saying if an illegal immigrant stole your car, then you weren't supposed to have your car to begin with because he was a better driver. Rubbish!

Please analyze the riots in FRANCE from this point of view, Illegal Immigrants made that mess, French society is as fragmented as ours. Some say the French GOV. response to this problem was weak. I would love to know your opinion on their position.

In all honesty I don't know much about that subject, frankly I don't really care, and futhermore that would take this discussion too far off topic. This is about our problems here, and I don't think trying to go analyse another country's problems with immigration are going to help much anyway because there are too many differences between the countries to begin with.

Originally posted by LoKito
Please analyze the riots in FRANCE from this point of view,
Illegal Immigrants made that mess ....

Are you sure?? I was under the impression that those who
rioted were LEGAL immigrant muslims and muslims who were
born in France. 1/5 of France is now Muslim. They had a wide
open immigration policy. They allowed themselves too many
immigrants without enough time for them to assimulate into
the culture. This is one of the problems sociology spells out
for us. That is why America controls the numbers of legal
immigrants. The country can only absorb so many people
without having a major meltdown. France ignored this rule
of sociology and so they had riots as a result.

Were the rioters in France legal or illegal immigrants? Were
they muslims born and raised in that country who are decendend
from immigrants?? Stats anyone??

Either way .. legal or illegal .. too many were allowed into
that country for them to be able to handle it and they didn't
assimulate into the culture. (From what I have read, the
muslims in France DO NOT WANT TO assimulate.)

Here's an interesting site. It's a site run by and for ILLEGAL
college students. How to get free US Government (YOUR tax dollars)
money for school, etc.

www.cosaonline.org...

Sucking up money that American children should be able to use.
American tax payers should be sending American children to
college .... not criminals.

I think the number of illegals who protested in just one city proves we're in big trouble. It's not just their sheer masses that's scary but the fact they don't think they're doing anything wrong. Proof once more of their blatant disrespect of our laws, our country, our citizens.

I think the government will chicken out and modify the bill in their favor. Who knows, maybe they will start a civil war. And it's just that mentality that makes me wish we could send every arrogant law breaker back where they came from!

Sorry, but I live a town that's been 90% usurped by illegal Mexicans who show nothing but contempt for America and Americans. Oh, and none of the illegals that I or anyone else I know work with, pay income taxes. They all work under the table, while their wives sit home collecting Welfare and Medical for their "anchor babies,"and year after year never bothering to learn English. It's this preferential treatment that sickens me and makes me resent them.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Hmm, the sheer number of protestors on this topic in one city alone (up to 500,000) also brings to mind that if there are that many alone in Chicago that are willing to skip a day of work to go out and protest a bill that seeks to control their illegal migration here, then I wonder what will happen when the INS really cracks down across the country and tries to deport them all.

Remember that the number 500,000 was claimed by the organizers, while authorities say that it was more like 300,000 if I read correctly.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Lokito, me estoy riendo, pero no para las razones que tu pienzas, o por las razones que tu ha mencionado...

(Just for your info, I spent 6 years in the DR, and a couple in Costa Rica, so yeah, I speak fluent spanish...Thank God, or I'd have a hard time making it around here in Atlanta.)

Mira eso, pronto vamos a poder tener nuestro propio forum en español en ATS. :ATS en español:

Anyways, i back this bill against illegal immigration.
I think we should go ahead and build that wall already in the border with Mexico, and even the one in Canada.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Yeah I vote for a Spanish section of ATS.

But guess what that thought will made some happy while others will be completely against it.

They will scream !!!This an American Forum!!!

Muaddib, you just love making life difficult for me on ATS, don't ya.

Hey, Spanish forum, great idea

Bill to deport all illegals, great idea

Walls, great idea

Posts on topic, great idea

And Marg, even though a lot of Americans attend ATS, I thought the creator, Simon, was from England?

I suppose Simon could just make a Bill that deported all Americans from illegally immigrating to his website... cya Springer and Val, been great knowing yas...