300,000+ Chicago Protestors Rally Against Immigration Bill

You know, after reading all these posts, it seems to me that most here have NO problem with LEGAL immigration. Hey, that is one function of our government, to assess those that have been granted visas and susequently shown that they have performed a useful function in this country, and then applied through the proper channels for permanent residency.

I think it is important that we strive to maintain that distinction between who is coming here LEGALLY, through the proper channels, and who is coming here ILLEGALLY, via various means. But keep in mind that Mexicans are not the only ones. Let us not forget the "boat people," trying to get in here ILLEGALLY from Cuba and Haiti.

Marg, you have me a bit confused on your position. It almost sounds to me like you are arguing that to come here ILLEGALLY is ok, and that these people should have equal rights and protection under the law. Maybe you could clarify, please.

OK
To fix the problem you have to do a few things:

Identify all illegal people living in the country--that means all legal citizens will have proper papers and be able to present them at any time to authorities--those who can't or won't produce papers can be arrested and held until identification and deportation can be arranged.

No one can be hired or paid without presenting the above legal documentation or else they will be again arrested and held for deportation.

Identify where the illegal immigrant is from and deport accordingly--if no papers exist or identification of home country is unavailable the person will be detained indefinitely.

Industries hiring illegal workers will be fined or assets siezed until such practices cease or will be taken over by the state.

Persons crossing borders between states or over the border without proper idenification will be jailed, or if they attempt to flee--shot.

I think that these measures should be able to control the illegal immigrant population but it will also be a total police state and movements for anyone will be under strict control. It can be done but at what cost to the freedom of those who are legal law abiding citizens who have to prove they have every right to be where they are.

[edit on 14-3-2006 by Sparkie the Wondersnail]

Identify all illegal people living in the country--that means all legal citizens will have proper papers and be able to present them at any time to authorities--those who can't or won't produce papers can be arrested and held until identification and deportation can be arranged.

Dude, that's pretty twisted. What if the person for whatever reason can't produce their papers in a timely fashion? Will the SS be there to drag them away for not being true citizens of "ze fazaland". I can think of at least a dozen scenarios where this would turn out horribly.

Edit: Sorry, read the last paragraph. Good point

[edit on 14-3-2006 by Rasobasi420]

(3) provide for biometric data enhancements

What do they mean by biometric enhancements .. hmmm

Originally posted by marg6043
My children and me has never been denied health care
so far because of inmigrants.

It's happening all the time in the south west. U2U Sugarlump
here at ATS. He has has personal experience with it.

Originally posted by omega1
For the last time. Illegal immigrants are illegal!!!!!! So they
do not get welfare or any other benefits. They do not live
on your dime!!

YES they DO get the benefits of being here. They flood the
hospitals and get free medical care all the while pushing legal
immigrants and Americans out so they can't. This raises the cost
of health care for all of us as well as using up our tax money to
cover the costs. Their children overcrowd the schools and cause
langauge problems so that the legal immigrants and Americans
don't get the education that they are entitled to. Our TAXES
pay for everything from the roads to the bridges to the
military which supports the freedoms
we enjoy. The illegals pay NOTHING and yet they free load
off the backs of taxpayers. When they go to college they pay
instate tuition, which is considerably less, and yet Americans
in the military have to pay out of state costs.

Illegals cost American tax payers 69 billion dollars
and 2 million jobs in 1997 alone -

www.carryingcapacity.org...


Read bibliophiles links. Educate yourself.

They suck the life out of the economies where they congregate.
They are here illegally and this makes them CRIMINALS. More of
our tax money has to go to legal expenses to get rid of them
and more of our tax money has to go to the extra police and
other law enforcement that has to deal with the drugs and
other illegal operations that come with many of them across
the boarders.

Flyers Fan, you are one very ignorant person.

Right back at you. Get educated sometime already.

www.vdare.com...
www.vdare.com...
www.theamericanresistance.com...

Bush gives 1 billion in taxpayer money for illegal alien medical care.
www.warriorsfortruth.com...

www.fairus.org...

www.usatoday.com...

medical services, free of charge, if they claim an emergency need. for care.
www.jpands.org...

EMTALA rewards them with extensive, expensive free medical services
if they claim emergency requirement for care. www.newswithviews.com...

Illegal immigrants badly overuse ERs instead of tapping into
often-free health-care clinics or finding a family doctor.
www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2006/01/06/EDGU9GHG0S1.DTL


Environmental destruction by Illegals crossing -
(national parks are maintained by .... US TAX PAYERS)
www.desertinvasion.us...


[edit on 3/14/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by omega1
These people are not criminals.

They are here illegally. That means they have broken
the law. This means they are criminals.

In addition to the CRIME of being here illegally look at
what our tax money has to deal with - the extra law
enforcement - the extra insurance payouts from these
criminal acts ... etc. etc. etc.

www.city-journal.org...

excerpt

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave
Heather Mac Donald
Winter 2004

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide
(which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all
fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995
that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern
California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much
greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the
dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution
schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault
or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over
the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of
them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and
racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was
about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis
Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien,
controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry
following deportation.

More information at the site -
www.city-journal.org...



[edit on 3/14/2006 by FlyersFan]

Good links FlyersFan I am amazed at some of those statistics!

But really, they make sense. Without a social security number, I would imagine that many employers probably refuse to hire them, because of course, they can't withold taxes on an illegal. So their only option is to work for cash only, and those jobs are few and far between. Left with few options, a life of crime comes next. Sad. But true for so many of them...

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Marg, you have me a bit confused on your position. It almost sounds to me like you are arguing that to come here ILLEGALLY is ok, and that these people should have equal rights and protection under the law. Maybe you could clarify, please.

Yes I know, that is because my position on Illegals is open to a certain point.

I find ironic that I am a Latino Women born in the Island of PR (That is a Island in the Caribbean that belongs to the US), no, I don't need a green card (many people in the state I live dare in their geographical and historical lacking ignorance ask me that).

We are born Americans thanks to the Generosity of the USA that the day we claimed our Independence they were waiting in our shores to claim us as a colony.

I am happy to be an American, have plenty of members in my family that has died and served the US.

But I find hypocritical that I can see the immigration problems with an open mind and compare it with the historical background without ignorant comments that many in these boards so called Americans patriots can.

Why is that because immigration has been going on in our nation since the day it was invaded by the pilgrims from across the sea looking for freedom and a better way of life..

This has gone for centuries and before US was conquered Spanish and Mexicans were land holders in this new lands.

So now they are Illegal and they come here to take American benefits.

Well what a hypocrisy that our governments so far never has given a second though to this litter fact until the scaremongers after 9/11 make a National security issue.

Can somebody in these boards please tell me when you have been turned over in a job because and Illegal immigrant has been chosen before you?

Yes Immigration has to be redefine and a line has to me made

But does anybody that are so opposed to immigration will like to Explain why no one of our political leaders while talking about immigration laws has not done a darn thing to stop it?

Instead of making such a fuss and calling depicting immigrants with racial slang, you should do something useful and ask your state leaders why nothing has been done to enact laws to protect the borders.

I can only talk about immigrants in the south and so far the state where I live in protect immigrant workers because without them the farming community will no survive.

We can all go into this thread and debate about and issue that is not in our hands but in the hands of the same polticians that we Elected during elections they are the ones that are suppoused to deal with this.

But wonder why nothign is done?

Ask yourselves why.

Perhaps histiory was a very boring subject in school when many of you were growing up. . . but guess what it does help with denying ignorance.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
they can't withold taxes on an illegal.

There ya' go. They don't pay taxes. They take from the system.
They use what our tax money has provided. They raise the cost
of health care for EVERYONE. They take jobs that people with
less education could have (and those folks could come off tax payer
paid welfare). But they don't pay taxes.

BTW I forgot to add that is very easier for illegals to get a brand new American citizenship identity with not problem at all because is money to be made by the less scrupulous ones that sell them to them.

Wake up and smell the roses they get from social security to ID cards, birth certificates and drives licenses, all for the right prices.

Now who is going after the illegal trafficking of identities in the US?

Deny ignorance people the issue is more complicate and out of hand that many claim Closing the borders and raiding communities to get them is not going to stop it without proper laws and without been called racial profiling.

The irony.

Originally posted by marg6043
We are born Americans thanks to the Generosity of the USA that the day we claimed our Independence they were waiting in our shores to claim us as a colony.

Ya know Marg, thanks to the Generosity of the USA, these illegals are still here! If we REALLY wanted to, and cracked down hard enough, we could round them all up without any further ado, and deport them all. But DAMN! Give someone an inch and they gotta take 12 million Mexi...I mean...miles.

Just how far is this country supposed to go? How many is too many? Are you gonna be happy when they have 50 million illegals here? 100 million? NO no, why don't we make it 300 million! There, ya happy? Now us poor little patriotic americans are a minority. So deport us.

Now us poor little patriotic americans are a minority. So deport us.

Don't be afraid of being a minority, there's nothing wrong with it.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Don't be afraid of being a minority, there's nothing wrong with it.

Heh, I already am in my area, and I'm your typical american white guy living in Atlanta. And nope, nothing wrong with being a minority at all. Hell, if I didn't speak spanish I couldn't read half the signs on my street. Not a thing wrong. Everything's rosy.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Heh, I already am in my area, and I'm your typical american white guy living in Atlanta. And nope, nothing wrong with being a minority at all. Hell, if I didn't speak Spanish I couldn't read half the signs on my street. Not a thing wrong. Everything's rosy.

You still don't get it TrueAmerican and that is very sad, Is already millions of immigrants in America.

American is not a black, brown, yellow or green country anything or limited to one racial background of pure blood.

Every American in this country has a relation or is related to somebody of another race or at least knows somebody that is from another race, Mostly Spanish.

That is a fact, the Borders our borders are open because our own elected government wants too keep them open.

Don't be fool TrueAmerican get to the root of the problem and why this is the way it is.

You are fighting a system put in place by our own elite in power that has not desire to have it change in a million years.

It has not change in centuries and it will never change in the future.

Originally posted by marg6043
Don't be fool TrueAmerican get to the root of the problem and why this is the way it is.

The root of the problem is the illegal immigrants, and their insistence on crossing our borders illegally. You keep failing to make that distinction, Marg. If there were only Legal ones here, that law would not have passed, that rally would not have taken place, and this post would not exist.

Greetings Fellow Believers,

I suppose that following the money-trail isn't such a reach while discussing illegal immigration. However, there is another need for illegal immigration: classism (or more importantly--castes).

The affluence of the average American is higher than many other nations. Affluence brings collective arrogance. I do not use the word "arrogance" negatively--this is only a natural progression.

Affluence requires some measure of classism. When standard of living for the average American improves--they rise from lower class into middle class--and quite possibly to upper class.

However, a society with classes needs a substantial number of lower class individualss to support the other classes. I submit to you, fellow believers, that the Mexican illegals must be here--or else the entire economic base will collapse.

The Mexicans are the Indentured or slave-base for our economy. Give them legal rights and the house of cards comes falling down.

Get used to calling the kettle black.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
The root of the problem is the illegal immigrants, and their insistence on crossing our borders illegally. You keep failing to make that distinction, Marg.

IF you leave your door open in your house do you expect nobody to come through that door uninvited?

That is what you think, TrueAmerican, you may have the believe that homes are supposed to be respected because that is they way you have been told.

But borders are not home's doors they are the doors to a nation, land opportunities, a better way of life.

If you were a poor man with a family to feed and the only door way to a better life is an imaginary border, will you risk your life to at least tried to provide a better way for your family?

If you are an opportunist would you also take a risk through that imaginary border To the land of the plenty ?

Its not the illegals or immigrants fault TrueAmerican, it is not, is our politicians the ones that had keep the imaginary borders open because they want them open.

That is what you fail to understand.

Illegal immigration has become profitable and necessary since slavery was abolished and now more than ever with the outsourcing of middle class jobs.

The poster before me makes a good point.

Marg, what I don't understand is why you are sitting here telling me all the reasons WHY they are coming. I already said to another poster here that reasons they are coming are not in question with me. I know this already, and please stop trying to make me out to be some kind of fool that doesn't understand. Yeah I got it already, and had it way before you launched into all that.

Yes, it is noble of them to try and make a better life for their families, no doubt. But frankly, it would be more noble of them to carve out a living somehow in their own country and better their own economy to the point where they don't NEED to come here, Marg. It's real easy to stay the night at someone else's house. It's much tougher to work and save to buy your own.

As far as risking their lives, maybe in some cases, but with the advent of the secret tunnels, I can't see that really applies here to the degree that you are trying to make it sound. Are they finding dead Mexicans by the hundreds or thousands all up and down the Mexican border? No.

And talk about the root of the problem... What about the Mexican government? I wouldn't suppose they'd have anything to do with this?

As to all this talk of the necessary slave labor, classes and supposed "arrogance" that your good point poster makes, I say that's gobbledeegook. If 25 million illegals were removed from this country right now, there'd still be 260 million or so people here that will make it. Americans always have, and Americans always will. In spirit anyways- not sure about in administration.

TrueAmerican

The Mexican government doesn't have to do anything about it's border, you know why? because is not his border the one that is open to the public.

Is the US side.

You can blame the Mexican government, the illegal immigrants or the man in the moon for it.

But the bottom line is that is only one group to blame for it, and that is our own government.

I know you are frustrated at the problems and many other people in these boards are also in certain degrees from racism to prejudice to plain ignorance or just that they see the truth of what a problem illegal immigrants has become in our nation I know that you are in that group that care and are worry about .

But is our government present and past that are at fault.

I guess I have nothing more to said, Flyers was very good at her research on how immigrants are affecting our nation.

In my case I find the situation, hypocritical, ironic and is all about politics.