Simple reason why I'm Anti-Secret Societies/Freemasonry

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Yeah the closet number is Holland so that's about right. Why?

Because your IP shows up as Holland and Buchanan and Benton Harbor. Holland(to Hudsonville) 25 min. Buchanan 1.5 hrs. Benton H 1.5 hrs. Seems like you are being really open here. Yet you want to know others secrets.


Sorry, not buying.

Secrecy is a double edged sword, we would like to have it in our private lives and our fraternal organizations but a pox upon it when it extends to our government*

I see a common thread in all of these mason vs anti-mason arguments: each side seems to assume moral superiority* If viewed under a microscope, Albert Pike and Alex Jones would each be the same two ridiculous little germs trying to tell other germs how to "live", or what is "right" or "moral"

I am very suspicious of anyone who claims to be of superior morals, they are usually the worst kinds of egoist

What do mean not buying? I told you what you wanted. I'am not lieing to you. My I.P. number is in holland whatever happens after that is your best guess. I don't know.

Want to know a secret?

It's not it's the truth

Andy,

While you see the words, you don't really get into their meaning. If, as you claim, most of your friends are masons, then why aren't you posing these questions to them? If you think about it, isn't your response to the obligation more of a comment on how little you value your own word?

If your friends really are masons, what's that different about them? Or you?

I pose the questions to them. One of my buddies and I go out and party together once in a great while. He will spill some of the secrets to me. It's just interesting to see if his stories and some of the posts on here mesh. I do know a number of things that I know I'am not supposed to. So of my friends quit the order and told me much about what goes on behind closed doors. I do find it hard to believe that the oath I posted is just a symbolic oath. And even if it was their is no way on gods green earth that I would agree with it. It's just way to dark for me. I can't understand why someone would want to commit to something like that.

While you see the words, you don't really get into their meaning.

So it's just an empty oath. Why have it then? Just because it's traditional. I think when saying the oath, with one that is worded that way it's very important to get into the meaning of what's being said.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
It's just interesting to see if his stories and some of the posts on here mesh.

And do they? And how so?

Originally posted by Andy WarholI do find it hard to believe that the oath I posted is just a symbolic oath.

Well, do you actually think there's a conspiracy to hush-up the number of tongueless men walking around the U.S.? I obviously don't speak for any save myself but you might want to search the word moral on this page and think about its ramifications. It may not change your perception but it's something to bear in mind.

12-12-12.org...

D'oh!

Originally posted by Andy WarholAnd even if it was their is no way on gods green earth that I would agree with it. It's just way to dark for me. I can't understand why someone would want to commit to something like that.

Simply because his word is his bond and nothing happens in-lodge that justifies breaking it. Every master Mason's oath is very particular in that respect

[edit on 4-12-2006 by Fitzgibbon]

Yes some of the stories do come out as posted on here. Some are a little different but it's about the same. I don't want to post stuff on here that's going to get me in trouble or banned. But let's see here I will give a little about what my friend has told me. Hiram ritual that he did in his lodge they used a coffin. Now my friend that quit the order said that this is a freemason baptism into the world of freemasonry. That's all I'am going to say. I don't want to get into trouble on this board.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Yes some of the stories do come out as posted on here. Some are a little different but it's about the same. I don't want to post stuff on here that's going to get me in trouble or banned. But let's see here I will give a little about what my friend has told me. Hiram ritual that he did in his lodge they used a coffin. Now my friend that quit the order said that this is a freemason baptism into the world of freemasonry. That's all I'am going to say. I don't want to get into trouble on this board.

I don't know what you think but the only way to get banned here is blatent abuse of the T&C. Aside from that, feel free to post what you wish.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Yes some of the stories do come out as posted on here. Some are a little different but it's about the same. I don't want to post stuff on here that's going to get me in trouble or banned. But let's see here I will give a little about what my friend has told me. Hiram ritual that he did in his lodge they used a coffin. Now my friend that quit the order said that this is a freemason baptism into the world of freemasonry. That's all I'am going to say. I don't want to get into trouble on this board.

That sounds more like what I've heard about Skull and Bones, not Masonry. Methinks your friend was either jerking you or making it up as he went.

Originally posted by Spores From Space
Secrecy is a double edged sword, we would like to have it in our private lives and our fraternal organizations but a pox upon it when it extends to our government*

I see a common thread in all of these mason vs anti-mason arguments: each side seems to assume moral superiority* If viewed under a microscope, Albert Pike and Alex Jones would each be the same two ridiculous little germs trying to tell other germs how to "live", or what is "right" or "moral"

I am very suspicious of anyone who claims to be of superior morals, they are usually the worst kinds of egoist

That is because governments govern ALL the people and we masons govern only ourselves. If I dont want to obey the rules of Masonry I can just leave and be done with it. If I dont obey the laws of my government I can loose my liberty, property and even my life.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Because it's a Secret Society. SECRET.

It's as simple as that.

Do I have to repeat that? Think about it.

Ignorance is believing that no evil can come out of it. And believe me, the hearts & minds of men in bond wrapped in secrecy can be a terrible thing for humanity.

It's only a matter of time when the people will rise up and stomp all societies of all kind. We are all in this together. Secrecy will keep us apart.

If the reason for secrecy is because of special knowledge that can better mankind and our planet then it should be shared with us all.

Shared.

Not kept away for a selected few. If I need to join a club to learn the secrets of the universe you can be sure that I will never go through with it. Man should come foward and have the courage and love to enlighten every living thing on this planet.

I say bring an end to all secret societies.

The world is better off with them.

Not a matter of thinking its a matter of thinking faster. Think of a race of humanoids that knew that they were the member of a secret society by genetics alone. But wait it gets better. Self Identifiers that triggered a prededermanent response. With a simple runic motion one could sprout wings theoreticly....just my food for your thoughts

He will spill some of the secrets to me. So of my friends quit the order and told me much about what goes on behind closed doors. I do find it hard to believe that the oath I posted is just a symbolic oath.

Hey it looks like you just contradicted yourself. You just said that your friends who were Masons spilled the beans. Presumably if he does this when he is drunk he MUST have done it in front of his Brothers when drunk as well. Let me ask you a Question - were said friends "Throat Slit & Tongues Cut Out"??? Obviously they had already taken said Oath. Yet you stated concern that this was a "Real Possibility" & a Horrible position to be in!

It is only simply a manner of Honor, Good Character, keeping your Word & behaving with a
Modicum of Self-Respect - something that you should learn about.

Also you have stated that you already "know some things". You clearly are rejecting FreeMasonry as a Negative thing (i.e. they are bad because they keep secrets) - yet you even question me - "come on tell me some of the secrets. What are the Masons hiding?" What are their "Diabolical Schemes" was probably what you meant to say. Why don't you get real. But oh wait you have talked to many Masons on-line & they seemed like good guys to you. Will you make up your mind already!

P.S. I think that your nose is growing - you might want to look into that!!!

[edit on 4-12-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 4-12-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Yes some of the stories do come out as posted on here. Some are a little different but it's about the same. I don't want to post stuff on here that's going to get me in trouble or banned. But let's see here I will give a little about what my friend has told me. Hiram ritual that he did in his lodge they used a coffin. Now my friend that quit the order said that this is a freemason baptism into the world of freemasonry. That's all I'am going to say. I don't want to get into trouble on this board.

That sounds more like what I've heard about Skull and Bones, not Masonry. Methinks your friend was either jerking you or making it up as he went.

Actually, it sounds like his friend got it from Duane Washum's "Ex-Masons For Jesus" site. I wonder if these "friends" are really even Masons.

I'm curious that so many of his 'friends' are masons. Give the percentage of Masons among the general public, somehow it seems a stretch.

Okay to clear a few things up. I'am not anti-mason at all. I have two friends who are masons. And one who left the faternity. My very best friend is a mason. I couldn't imagine my life with out him. He has helped me through many rough times. Just because I don't agree with everything that goes on behind lodge doors. But just because there are a few bad apples those apples don't spoil the whole damn bunch. It doesn't mean that I hate nor wish ill against any mason what so ever. I met the other people from my best friend. We hang out play cards together and stuff that many non masons do on the weekends. I'am sure there are masons on this board that hang out with non members also. There are many things that I don't agree with that the christain church does also. Does that mean I want every born again person hung from the nearest tree? No of course not. I didn't get the stuff for exmasons.com that's exactly what my friend said about the ritual. That it felt like a baptism into masonry. This is a small world with many people in it. Someone some where is friends with a mason who is a non memeber, Doh. Now one of friends got out of the faternity because it wasn't for him. Now does that make him a bad person? No it's just not for him. Such as christianity isn't for everyone. And as I look at my nose no it's not growing. I have no reason to lie to any of you. I like this board and everyone on it. Mason and non mason. It's great that we can all have these talks. I have learned much from each and everyone of you. And each have taught me and changed many of opinions on masory. Espically Trinity and I thank you very much for that. I could sit and have a beer with Trinity. Just because or beliefs maybe a little different and I never met the guy doesn't mean I couldn't hang out with him. Thanks again to all who have educated me on many things on this board. If I swayed of topic to much I'am sorry but I wanted to explain myself.

[edit on 6-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]

[edit on 6-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]

Well, having had an offline exchange with AW I'm quite comfortable that he is dealing 'on the level', so to speak.

Now lets all get back on topic, if anyone can remember what it is

OK Andy. But can you please just clear up one thing for me? You have already admitted that one of your friends who left the Order had already told you some of the "Secret" things that goes on. You realize that he at that point Violated his Oath - wether he is active in the Fraternity or not. Let me ask you again - did any bodily harm happen to your friend? No huh. No Mason ever beat him up or attempted to cut his tongue out or cut his throat huh. Then what was with all of the Drama you displayed about how horrible it was & how real a possibility it was that this might happen? The Oath is the REAL Drama. It was written that way in order to stress the Importance of keeping the Orders business WITHIN the Order.

Will you now admit that you were being over Melo-Dramatic? I am sorry for being so Defensive - I am just so sick of people coming on here & Slandering Masonry with Rubbish that they just made up! It happens a LOT!

No he didn't get his tounge cut...sometimes I wish he did. Joking, Joking just kidding Had to throw that in. But who is to say that something like that hasn't happended before. Maybe not in todays age. But if you made the wrong person mad who knows what could happend. That not just masonry persay. Their are many many crazies out thier and most are not masons. Most people who right off the bat start foaming at the mouth about masonry are just insecure in the first place. The person that started this thread could have worded it a little different. Instead of insuating right off the bat that every mason is the cause of all our ills. That to me is B.*. I think their are a few bad apples in the faternity. But that shouldn't put a shadow of guilt on every mason. Just like the church has it's fault. For instance Jimmy Swagert ring a bell? Or Jim Baker he was from Muskegon Michigan not to far from where I live. Does that mean every church pastor is the same? Of course not that's just ridicouls. I think people need to do a little more research and less finger point at this point. I also encourge anyone who doesn't like masonry on this board to think before speaking. Don't come on the board and start saying masons this and masons that it's all their fault. Instead talk to these guys they are not as bad as you think. For the most part they are pretty cool group of people. When you come in here and start foaming at the mouth you give so called "Cospriacy Theorists" a bad name.

Thank You.



[edit on 6-12-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]