Simple reason why I'm Anti-Secret Societies/Freemasonry

Originally posted by eudaimonia

[...

If you believe that evil is too great in this world, then I would understand why one would not share such a powerful secret.

But I believe there is still good out there. More good than evil, in my opinion.

www.scoutsongs.com...

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Originally posted by eudaimonia

[...

If you believe that evil is too great in this world, then I would understand why one would not share such a powerful secret.

But I believe there is still good out there. More good than evil, in my opinion.

www.scoutsongs.com...

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
...that there are evil ones with tremendous wealth and power who work behind doors not revealing themselves to the public manipulating and pulling the strings of all types of governments at home and abroad.

Are we still talking about masons here? I too believe in such groups, but do they really need Masonry. How many billionaires masons are there?

These groups of plutocrats have plenty of secrecy within the walls of their boardrooms, why do they need Masons for?

Good lyrics sigung86, thanks.


[edit on 12/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

I'm of two minds about this.

One the one hand, if someone is intelligent enough to, say, split the atom, but also wise enough to realize such knowledge should not be available to absolutely anyone who desires it, then I think that's a good thing. If on the other hand they are not wise enough to refrain from splitting the atom themselves in the first place - unless it were accidental and in no way sought after - then how much more worthy of that knowlege than anyone else they are is called somewhat into question, in my view.

I do believe there are some things humanity isn't ready to know - much less make wise and peaceful use of - and that the primary source of what ails humanity is in fact a discrepancy between its intellectual capacity, and its capacity for the wisdom to exercise that intellect wisely. However, I also believe that any relatively small group of people in possession of the wisdom necessary to know and safeguard that knowledge should also, by definition, be self-searching and humble enough to audit itself on a constant and vigilant basis in order that it not fall to the same iniquities it hopes to keep that knowledge safe from in the first place. The mechanism by which that is done should also have as an inherent principle, flexibility and organic adaptation in response to new discoveries, changing situations, and disparate interpretations.

The alternatives are twofold. 1) An order that does not hold itself accountable because it believes the standards by which it indoctrinates and teaches are infallible, and thus becomes susceptible to the kind of abuses and corruption it set out to protect the knowledge it possesses from, or 2) An order that holds itself accountable only by rigid and inflexible doctrines. The latter, if well conceived, could continue functioning and achieving its well intended goals for a very long time. However, even the most well meaning, well conceived, and seemingly universal doctrine or set of rules is but a snapshot of a specific set of variables, conditions, and interpretations at the time of its devising. It can be likened to a (hypothetical) perfectly engineered clock that never loses time and runs for thousands of years, but then one day breaks inexplicably. The presumption that any set of rules, checks, and balances - be it in government, society, order, religion, or anything else - is eternally infallible or cannot be eroded, misinterpreted, manipulated, or become outdated, is a clock waiting for someone to figure out precisely which cogs to throw a wrench into to bring it grinding to a halt. If the clock breaks or someone else builds an even more well engineered one, but the institution governed by it continues to rely on it to guide them, then #2 may as well be #1, and the knowledge being safeguarded may as well be in the hands of - at least potentially - tyrants.

I don't believe or disbelieve this is the case. To believe either without hard evidence - let alone anything even remotely like understanding of the situation - would be an enormous pronouncement of judgment of one or another larger number of people. I'm merely saying that it's possible, and that to live up to the title of stewards of knowledge, any order seeking to must audit itself unceasingly, which includes questioning the standards by which they do so.

If a group acts in secret, then it is accountable to itself. If a group is accountable to itself, then it must hold itself accountable every second of every day, and question the standards by which it holds itself accountable constantly. Since I don't know if this is or is not the case, I can't judge the situation. Because people can't judge the situation, they fear the worst. I think this is the reason for the fear of secrecy. I personally feel they could be extremely altruistic forces for good in the world. I also feel they could represent the threat some believe they do. I won't judge them because I can't know; I’m just saying I think that uncertainty is what leads some to be concerned, and that the possibility exists for that concern to be well founded.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by AceWombat04]

Well said, AceWombat...nice perspective!

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I believe people that people who come onto ATS denouncing Freemasonry, having no first hand knowledge of Freemasonry whatsoever, have been deceived by the father of all lies. Flame if you want, but nothing good has or will ever come out of anti-Masonry: just a casual look at the Inquisition, Nazis, and Communists attests to it.

And I have heard and read much from former masons (even very high degree masons), who ought to know precisely what happens in your meetings. My beef isn't with the other entities you cite, but specifically with Freemasonry and those who tout that its nothing more than a charitable "good-ol boys" club.

Ignorance is believing that no evil can come out of it. And believe me, the hearts & minds of men in bond wrapped in secrecy can be a terrible thing for humanity.

I agree completely, allowing for secrets is a very dangerous thing, just look at what has been done secretly behind our backs

We live in a free society, that means people have freedom of assembly. Do you think that there should be some kinda of goverment agency oversees all meetings, just to make sure they are not secret? That would be a AWFUL thing. Who are you to tell people how they can meet, or how to live?

I think you are a little miguided about the society that we live in, we do not live in a free society. We do not live in a society where secrets are alowed, infact we live in the opposite society, where the rich and powerfull have access to all the secrets there are on earth, In the U.S.A. a domestic wiretapping program was just uncovered, and there are also machines in almost all devoloped countries that can overhear all conversations within the entire country including the biggest counties in the world infact I don't think any place on earth is immune from the technologies of the rich and powerfull?

The fact is that we live in a day in age where we cannot afford secrets anymore there is too much power in the wrong hands, and their is no way of knowing who and where they are.

Do you really believe that such a secret should be handed on a silver platter to everybody indiscriminately? Would every single man be worthy of it? Or would some only use it to destroy themselves and others? Did not the Most Wise Master warn not to cast pearls before swine? Would you give a loaded gun to a child who has not been taught the proper way to use it?

Well if they were trully the secrets of a perfect god, as the masons and other secret societies believe then wouldn't the secret either keep itself or wouldn't be dangerous to give to other people.

Only two or three people know the true recipe to making the donuts. The donut mix is made under strict security and then bags of mix are sent out to the different shops. Nobody else knows the recipe, not even the individual shop managers.

This is one example of literally thousands where businesses keep secret a critical piece of information that makes their business unique and successful. Does this make them evil? Plotting to take over the world through infiltrating their government?

Hardly.

Business secrets are not evil. They are critical to maintain competition, something that drives the marketplace. Giving out all the secrets will dilute their value, and in the end, foster a monopoly.

Plotting to take over the world through the world through infultrating the government no, but planning to controll other peoples lives through financial enslavement yes, which is evil! Although necesarry in this dog eat dog world we live in, it is considered proper etiquite, but somehow a homeless man stealing on of these krispy Creme donuts, because he is starving in the streets because no one will pay him because it is in no interest to them or his financial slave master(AKA his boss) decided to let him go isn't. It's the same evil barbarian evolutionary mentality that we live in.

The buisness secrets and monopolies that you take so sympathetically to are actually enslaving americans.

Do some research...you can find the entire text of all the masonic rituals online if you dig deep enough. You will find out there is no infrastructure for world takeover there. Dig some more into the way lodges are structures, and run. The hierarchy stops at the state level (in the US), so there are 51 GLs in the country (don't forget DC). The scope of the business meetings is to argue over light bulbs and organize fish frys.

Well actually What I think eudaimonia was thinking was that no matter how benign the secrets are, that they should be no exception to the rule that secrets are dangerous to the general public. Let us not forget how Loki killed Balder. The Gods were so affraid that balder was going to die that they took all the precautions that they saw fit, including asking everyone and everything to make a sacred promise not to kill balder, however loki transforming into another shape asked the god that secured the promises from all things not to kill balder, asked him if there was nothing in the world that he had not asked for such a promise, and he replied that he didn't think that mistle toe, could harm him so he had not asked mistle toe, and knowing this Loki managed to kill balder with mistletoe.

Evolution-The whole video One of the best music videos of all time, it really is a must watch for all of you!!!

[edit on 13-3-2006 by Spatacus]

I do believe that there is such a secret. I likewise believe that this secret is concealed in the symbolism of Masonry.

A very ballsy statement to make, I now think hold your character in much higher regard now. You are truly a cool guy.

However, I do not believe that this secret is alluded to formally, and one must study the symbols independently.

Wow! that just cleared up so many of my misconceptions about masonry thanks man.

Christ once sternly warned, pearls must not be cast before swine.

I'm sorry but quoting christ as some kind of adept, or messenger of god is rediculus, If these people were so adept, and if christ was truly ordained before god, don't you think him or god would have had the foresight to see that so many people would be massacred raped, had there mind controlled, and life bennefitting science destroyed, because of them?

And if christ, truly believed as it is stated that God had asked the jews to rape and pillage villages, in his name isn't god the most sick and twisted cult leader the world has ever seen!

It's time to start questioning who the hell are these "enlightened people" and what the f do they believe, and why are they not questioning their descion making.

These "enlightened", people are fools none of them who understood science or scientific philosophy well enough to question the existance of god. Many members of these secret society members or enlightened people claimed they knew "the secrets of the universe" and yet none of them understood the laws of science, astronomical principles well enough, they are still "neophytes" of the universe, and nothing can change that unless they are willing to think scientifically and rationally about the world and about "mystical" things.

Originally posted by Spatacus

Wow! that just cleared up so many of my misconceptions about masonry thanks man.

Didn't you once mention you were a member of A.M.O.R.C.? If so, I would say that the ultimate "secrets" of Masonry are identical to A.M.O.R.C., Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Society of the Inner Light, Builders of the Adytum, etc. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Masonry is probably the most ambiguous of the mystery schools. When modern Masonry came into being, it was still very dangerous to openly teach anything that contradicted the official dogma.

Thankfully, in time, this danger subsided, and groups like AMORC and BOTA can teach the mysteries in a more straightforward manner, without fear of life and limb, while Masonry continues to use its traditional, and somewhat less instructive, manner. Nevertheless, I support Masonry completely for being the "original" mystery school, at least in modern times, and Masonry played a large role in bringing about the freedom and social conditions necessary to allow the more "serious" mystery schools to operate and function openly.

The buisness secrets and monopolies that you take so sympathetically to are actually enslaving americans. [\quote]

Careful, Spatacus, I'm not pro-monopoly, and I don't care for the implication. I'm pro-free market and my points outline that just fine. I disagree that the business secrets are enslaving Americans, that's left to the monopolies, the Big Corporations. But we can definitely discuss the evil of Corporate America in another thread, if you like.

My point of view is simply this: secrets are not inherently evil. What is done with the secret information is what can be deemed evil, if it has a negative agenda. Keeping secret a simple formula of household chemicals which can indefinitely power your automobile...I'll call evil (for example). Making available a set of philosphies and moral allegories to only those that choose to take the path...not evil.

Why not throw it on the air waves and give it away for free? Well, it's already been done. It's out there. It's just that most people aren't listening. The things I've learned in my Lodge are not a surprise to me, I've learned them through my own readings. What's great about the Lodge teachings is their beautiful way of putting those philosophies.

The Norse myth you quote regarding Balder and Loki is another method of teaching through allegory. Forget that it's fiction, it still teaches a lesson. The lesson is not that secrets are evil, it's that private information, in the wrong hands, can be devastating, even to the greatest of personages.

Spatacus,

Masonry is a trap for the unwary, for the ambitious, for those who crave material comforts. A trap for those who would deny their nation's God's, who spit on the cross, deny their prophets. It is a trap for the mercenary mind, the dissatisfied man and the evil magician. Please not fall for the honeyed words that pamper your ego: Your are special.. You are elite! You will spend a lifetime in torment. You will be made to do appaling deeds, you will have no free will, your inegrity will vanish. You will act under orders which push you further and further along a path of utter damnation. You will no longer be able to live with what you have done. You will crave death and it will come. This is no joke, it is not hot air. These are the secrets of Masonry. That Masonry's evil reflects the self-serving ambition of man.


All those here who want to join, ask yourself why? You know the answer, because you WANT something, and that is why those who join will be punished.

This is not hot air. This is the truth and it could save a lot of you a lot of real trouble. MASONIC LIGHT I will not identify myself to you or anybody so stop asking. I do not care a fig who you are so please do not ask me to reveal MYSELF.

Please, take my posts as a friendly warning from one who, like Orpheus, has been to the land of the dead and returned.


[edit on 13-3-2006 by Edelweiss Pirate]

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate


All those here who want to join, ask yourself why? You know the answer, because you WANT something, and that is why those who join will be punished.

Spoken like a true Nazi. In fact, an almost identical quote is found in "Freemasonry Ideology" by SS Reichsmaster Dieter Schwarz, which was the official Nazi Party statement on Freemasonry. Is that where you got it?

This is not hot air. This is the truth and it could save a lot of you a lot of real trouble. MASONIC LIGHT I will not identify myself to you or anybody so stop asking. I do not care a fig who you are so please do not ask me to reveal MYSELF.

I couldn't care less who you are. I've been on this forum for 2 years, and have seen this same garbage you're putting on here many times before. Other long-time ATSers will tell you the same thing. This ain't my first rodeo, and probably won't be my last.

We've had plenty of pretend "former Masons" on here before that couldn't remember the name of their old "Lodge".

We, the free thinkers should feel sorry for the trapped. Pawns being used in most cases. All will suffer the same fate however. A "re-cycleing" of the soul energy.........Tartaurs or a "zeroing" etherically speaking........


There would be NOTHING worse in the cosmos.



A life without need for an eternity of non-existance.........


For me its pretty easy

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
Masonry is a trap for the unwary, for the ambitious, for those who crave material comforts. A trap for those who would deny their nation's God's, who spit on the cross, deny their prophets. It is a trap for the mercenary mind, the dissatisfied man and the evil magician. Please not fall for the honeyed words that pamper your ego: Your are special.. You are elite! You will spend a lifetime in torment. You will be made to do appaling deeds, you will have no free will, your inegrity will vanish. You will act under orders which push you further and further along a path of utter damnation. You will no longer be able to live with what you have done. You will crave death and it will come. This is no joke, it is not hot air. These are the secrets of Masonry. That Masonry's evil reflects the self-serving ambition of man.


All those here who want to join, ask yourself why? You know the answer, because you WANT something, and that is why those who join will be punished.

This is not hot air. This is the truth and it could save a lot of you a lot of real trouble. MASONIC LIGHT I will not identify myself to you or anybody so stop asking. I do not care a fig who you are so please do not ask me to reveal MYSELF.

Please, take my posts as a friendly warning from one who, like Orpheus, has been to the land of the dead and returned.


[edit on 13-3-2006 by Edelweiss Pirate]

Wow... So, you claim to be of royal stock, and to have risen from the dead, and you think that MASONS consider themselves special????

Yeah, umm... I think most of us would prefer that you didn't reveal yourself any more than you already have.

Quote: "their nation's God"

What the F$#@! Nations have Gods? So you subscribe to the Ideology that Every Citizen of a Nation should ALL belong to the SAME Religion & Worship the SAME God? What about the Atheists - well I guess if you had your way you would take away their "Right to Life" - seeing how they refuse to recognize the "Nation's God" & all. So what would you do - have us go back to the Dark Days of the Inquisition again? Are you going to start to hunt for the "Witches & Pagans" - in order to Torture & Kill them because your God tells you too (Never mind their rights as fellow Citizens)?

Well I have news for you - the Founders of the U.S.A. were indeed Enlightened - news flash - we have FREEDOM of RELIGION & even FREEDOM from Religion if that is what you wish! You must be a "Wanna-be American" or even worse a "Theocrat"! It is all about *TOLERANCE* my friend!

Why not throw it on the air waves and give it away for free? Well, it's already been done. It's out there. It's just that most people aren't listening. The things I've learned in my Lodge are not a surprise to me, I've learned them through my own readings. What's great about the Lodge teachings is their beautiful way of putting those philosophies.

I totally agree, most of the central philosophies in secret societies are published by many authors in many books, however I suspect that some of these teachings are surrounded by rubbish.