Thesis: Disclosure would destroy ufology...then what?

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posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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The title of this thread is an 'argumentative thesis statement'. It is not stated as fact, and is open to thorough debate.

First, I do not personally think any formal disclosure will ever occur unless a 'mothership' parks itself over Washington, D.C. By then of course its not disclosure, but admission. My main argument being...why? I see zero benefit to disclosing anything. In fact, the world-wide realization that 'we are not alone' could cause tremendous unrest.

My secondary argument is, the governments and military of this planet are powerless against a small number of unknown visitors. And they will not admit it. Imagine the consequences of declaring, "We can't do anything about them".

Has the difficulty of this problem reduced ufologists to throwing in the towel and declaring, "We can't figure it out, just tell us please!"?

Question: Is "Disclosure" a campaign to mis-direct the efforts of ufologists away from the science of the matter and replace it with the conviction that "someone already knows, and they'll tell us"?

Consider this; what happens to the field of ufology once the mystery is gone? Do we really want the mystery solved?

NC




posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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I personally don't think it will ever be "disclosed". I don't believe there is really anything else there, beyond us. However, similarly to our belief in ghosts, the paranormal, I think this is all kind of an "escape" to what happens when we die. If someone has proof of a ghost, then there must be an afterlife. Interestingly, if there are people from other worlds, then they are 100x smarter and more technologically advanced than we are (implying that they reached us first), then they possibly come from another deminsion, another time, the "heavens"?, or simply have the technology to live forever (escape death)...this too, is a reassuring thought. Although I don't necessarily belief there is anything out there, the entire thought, and study of it comfort people.



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by NotClever
The title of this thread is an 'argumentative thesis statement'. It is not stated as fact, and is open to thorough debate.

First, I do not personally think any formal disclosure will ever occur unless a 'mothership' parks itself over Washington, D.C. By then of course its not disclosure, but admission. My main argument being...why? I see zero benefit to disclosing anything. In fact, the world-wide realization that 'we are not alone' could cause tremendous unrest.

My secondary argument is, the governments and military of this planet are powerless against a small number of unknown visitors. And they will not admit it. Imagine the consequences of declaring, "We can't do anything about them".

Has the difficulty of this problem reduced ufologists to throwing in the towel and declaring, "We can't figure it out, just tell us please!"?

Question: Is "Disclosure" a campaign to mis-direct the efforts of ufologists away from the science of the matter and replace it with the conviction that "someone already knows, and they'll tell us"?

Consider this; what happens to the field of ufology once the mystery is gone? Do we really want the mystery solved?

NC


Well, there's biblical support for your theory. In Revelation 8, it depicts a huge star falling to the earth that poisons one third of the oceans. In biblical texts, the concept of a star falling to the earth, is in reality an angel falling to the earth (in every instance), which i presume is the arrival of a huge mothership, which apparently gets blown or knocked out of the sky and crashes into the ocean, releasing some type of toxin, which is called wormwood because it makes the water bitter to the taste as well as unsafe to drink.



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:32 PM
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Could wormwood not simply be a meteor? I believe a meteor alone would release toxins and whatever else agents it contains into the ocean at a catastrophic level



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Youngblood_USA
Could wormwood not simply be a meteor? I believe a meteor alone would release toxins and whatever else agents it contains into the ocean at a catastrophic level


No, it is not a meteor. In every single instance in the bible when it says a star falls to earth, it later identifies it as an angel. When it's a meteor it says a rock falls to earth.



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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Also consider that we've had meteors hit our waters many times, and never in written history has it made one third or even one fourth of the world's water undrinkable and bitter. It's a rock. HOWEVER, technology, that's a different story altogether. If you'd like references to the angel falling = star falling concept, read here Revelation 9, which is a continuation of Revelation 8 (The wormwood chapter). Also, read Revelation 12 (the dragon's tail drew one third of the stars and cast them to earth).



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by NotClever

I see zero benefit to disclosing anything. In fact, the world-wide realization that 'we are not alone' could cause tremendous unrest.


I believe you are correct in what you say...disclosure would cause a good portion of the 6.5 billion humans on this dirtball to be wondering what fate awaits them. The unknown is a powerful source for fear.

But...as more countries begin to venture into space with various probes heading for the moons and planets of our solar system, the genie may not stay stoppered up in the bottle for much longer. If there's aliens in our system, hanging out on some moon of Jupiter, for instance, perhaps a European probe will see something and 'let the cat out of the bag'.

As the numbers of people outside of NASA involved in such programs increases, so does the ability to 'contain' anomalies decrease. If there is anything to any of the UFO incidents that have taken place over the last 60 years, then disclosure will have to happen eventually.

As a species, humans are always exploring new horizons...it's in our nature. We are at the threshold of leaping into space, more so than ever before in our recorded history. Where would you rather hear disclosure from, if it were to ever happen...your government or your neighbour when the saucers are landing?

Does anyone really still think we are alone in the universe? I mean, what's the likelyhood for that? Just the fact that we exist proves it's possible.
.

[edit on 10-3-2006 by masqua]



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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good comments masqua,

Maybe it's a matter of terminology. How about instead of 'disclosure' we go with 'realization'. The former feels like we're 'sheeple' and waiting for authoritative announcements, while the latter is more in line with what we feel is inevitable, 'well duh, now the rest of you know'.

NC



posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by NotClever
good comments masqua,

Maybe it's a matter of terminology. How about instead of 'disclosure' we go with 'realization'. The former feels like we're 'sheeple' and waiting for authoritative announcements, while the latter is more in line with what we feel is inevitable, 'well duh, now the rest of you know'.

NC


I like the way you think, NC...sheeple waiting for authoritative announcements'...
...good line.

I'm of the same opinion...that it will come as a 'realization' which will see governments scrambling for damage control. It only takes one major event and the entirety of the human race would 'know' about it in a week or less.
The news would spread like a wildfire, especially via the web, and no single government would be able to control it.

If a government has been witholding information, it would be better if they came clean about it in a measured way before the rest of humanity 'caught on', don't you think?

Talk about mayhem...it'd make Orson Wells' War of the World radio show seem like a bad B movie compared to the reaction that such an 'awakening' would produce.
.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 07:59 AM
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...then who cares what's next. The whole point of Ufology is bring out the truth. It's not like some club I don't ever want to see broken up. I want TRUTH!!!



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 09:42 AM
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Obviously, the disinformation planted by our government continues to perpetuate the myth that we would all run amok once we know the truth about ET.

I would not run amok. I would continue to go to work and pay my bills. Can't you all see we're all being played like violins. Sheeples is right!



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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First, I do not personally think any formal disclosure will ever occur unless a 'mothership' parks itself over Washington, D.C. By then of course its not disclosure, but admission. My main argument being...why? I see zero benefit to disclosing anything. In fact, the world-wide realization that 'we are not alone' could cause tremendous unrest.


There could be many benefits to disclosure that we aren't aware of...but without knowing the aliens' motivations, we're shooting in the dark. Obviously, if what we suspect is true, then the government has kept this secret for over half a century, so yes, it seems unlikely they have anything to gain from disclosure...at least officially. However, there may be elements within the circle that form ideological differences, and then want to get the secret out...and that's likely the kind of disclosure we'll eventually see.



My secondary argument is, the governments and military of this planet are powerless against a small number of unknown visitors. And they will not admit it. Imagine the consequences of declaring, "We can't do anything about them".


That's an assumption. Obviously we haven't been invaded, so either the aliens don't desire it, or we've put up enough of a defense to make them think otherwise... Either way, this seems to be a nonissue in regards to this, though it may have been a key factor in the early rush to shroud the matter in secrecy.....



Has the difficulty of this problem reduced ufologists to throwing in the towel and declaring, "We can't figure it out, just tell us please!"?


They haven't told us for over 50 years, so most UFOlogists realize that shy of the mothership over the White House, we aren't going to be told jack... But, the clues are there, and no coverup is 100% efficient... Early on, numerous mistakes were made, and a paper trail is there....despite attempts to obliterate it.



Question: Is "Disclosure" a campaign to mis-direct the efforts of ufologists away from the science of the matter and replace it with the conviction that "someone already knows, and they'll tell us"?


Ridicule is an effective tool, and far more effective than the early appeals to patriotism and threats. Disclosure (or more specifically, disinfo) is simply another trick in the tool bag of ridicule.



Consider this; what happens to the field of ufology once the mystery is gone? Do we really want the mystery solved?


I'd wager most UFOlogists would simply love to be right, so they'll get over it, hehe... However, proof would really only be the BEGINNING of UFOlogy as a science...not the end. Such proof would make the other questions exit the realm of silly, and become genuine issues. Are there others as well? What are their motivations? What are they like? How advanced are they? What is their society like? Etc. etc.


[edit on 11-3-2006 by Gazrok]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 12:01 PM
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Let's say we wanted to control a planet of 6.5 billion alien inhabitants. Which senario would have the greatest chance of being successful?

1. Control 6.5 billion aliens covertly so they never even know there is enemy.

2. Tell them the plans we have set out for their world.

I'm thinking that if 6.5 billion humans suddenly realized that there was an alien threat and the governments have been working with them to further their agenda (whether forced to do so or willingly), then it would be heluva lot more difficult to implement any plans.

If you wanted to take over Iraq would you go in with all guns blazing so that everyone knows you're there? Wouldn't this turn even the everyday citizen against you making it close to impossible to keep any semblance of control?

Think about 6.5 billion humans ready to fight for the survival of their race.

My conclusion is that if they actually wanted to have any chance of defeating an alien enemy they would tell the world and start handing out all the technology secrets. I think 6.5 billion brains working on the problem would have a much better chance than some narrow-minded sociopaths with dillusions of granduer.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 01:02 PM
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Greetings Fellow Believers,

Fact: Homo Sapiens are not the only intelligent species in the Universe. If the Universe is too big for the Human ego...tough.

We must realize that we are not a truly advanced species. If extraterrestrials are visiting Earth--we must assume that they are so radically advanced physiologically, socially, and technologically--that we would be incapable of harming them.

We should not assume that their motivations are malevolent. Advanced species would have been shaped by their ancestral history much as we do--yet have had the collective wisdom to not destroy themselves.

The human race had such a turning point during the Cuban missle crisis. Are we prepared to be embraced into the interstellar community?



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by NotClever
Consider this; what happens to the field of ufology once the mystery is gone? Do we really want the mystery solved?
NC

Yes, anyone or any group that generates an income or has financial interests or status in the study or subject of UFOs/Aliens would be affected especialy if disclosure did not favor their field of expertise/interest.

Reality is the beliefs and theories of ufology itslef are so fractured that disclosure would summarily cut many imaginative tendrils. Expect that there would be a conspiracy backlash in an effort to keep the mystery alive. It would not be hard to see that coming?



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Jack of Scythes
We must realize that we are not a truly advanced species.

Yea. The system is set up to reward intelligence. I mean just look at U.S. schools. Teaching chemistry in 3rd grade. Obviously, it's the people that are just not ready to step up to the challenge.



If extraterrestrials are visiting Earth--we must assume that they are so radically advanced physiologically, socially, and technologically--that we would be incapable of harming them.

Give me ALL the information so I can decide that for myself. Otherwise, I can't assume that.



We should not assume that their motivations are malevolent.

True. Since they went directly to the narrow-minded sociopaths then we have to assume they are just stupid.



The human race had such a turning point during the Cuban missle crisis.

The cuban missle crisis was caused by the narrow-minded sociopaths mentioned previous and not the 6.5 billion humans that are just trying to survive in a slave system.



Are we prepared to be embraced into the interstellar community?

Definitely not if you look at the leaders. But I continue to meet normal people every day that put the leaders' intelligence to shame.

[edit on 3/11/2006 by Arm Of Geddon]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 03:19 PM
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perhaps disclosure has not come because it would mean the EBE would have to restore all that time they took away from people. mind control is the darndest thing.

no seriously

whats needed is a more prominent level of orginization and recognition to the composition of our society. full disclosure will come, i am remote viewing that horizon, EBEology, soon because...

the US government has used the terrestrial scientific directional knowledge (given the EBEs advanced technological and intellectual capacities, would have a far more clear and concise composite understanding and directive to the terrestrial capacity for the efficient resourceful allocations of industrial and technological infrastructures.) provided by the EBE to create a super system of advanced technologically networked military industrial bunkers through out the US and upon fruition of a new world order the entire globe. these systems along with the brain drain (the secret governmental aquisition of top tier scientists and engineers) will soon secretly advance our military to a level of insurmountable impericle dominance (im thinking somewhere along the lines of anti-gravitational preventive reconosance craft, given the aquisition of shadow industries zero-point energy generation the shadow scientifics understanding of physics might warrent a resounding level in beam tool advancments, the use of superspositioned electrons, or selectrons to infiltrate secured computer networks. effectively making the national security agency unstoppable. due to my encounter with a mind probe several months back, i have a sneaking suspicion this is what the EBE used to infiltrate my computer extracting very highly regarded highly sensative above top secret information (some of my theories on EBE assisting in the advancement of the worlds enviromental sciences and such, just loads of streaming text basically), and supplanting it onto a physchotronic beam, (a tool which directly diposites information onto the receptive portions of your brain, neural receptors? cerebral cortex?) shot from the mind probe, ever so afluently manipulatively controlling the focus of my mind for me to examine the information presented.) making it possible for us to safely integrate some very powerful technologies and institute bold new scientific directives, through out the US as a staging ground, and then through out the globe. making disclosure possible through our own abilities as a scientifically adept race. removing any logical barriers of information formerly preventing us from a full understanding of the EBE motive, ordinance, capacity, origin, ability, and knowledge. such as the all seeing eye of horus the great pyramids reach to the stars of their own accord, we can and will become a planet of intergallactically exalting beings.

for those who remain intellectually segregated, confound to the emotional diatribe of socially redundant digression, frought with the irrelevant adherence to any narrowed awareness. disclosure will remain but a notion of mystery induced apathetically unto this great plain we know as the universe. for the mind of these little green men will envelope your every inclinination to progressively ascertive cognition. the mind, a gentle thing, the shroud, the secrecy. all for what? all for us, for the minds of the will of the good for the many. with that, it is something they already know.

well there is my sleep deprived, red bull induced, unipentially crafted crack pot of a theory. have a stupendous day good bretheren of ATS!



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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If disclosure happened then ufology would become a defacto science that would have to be recognized by the scientific community instead of the disrespect it now receives. We can't turn back the clock now, we have to face whatever reality we are going into. How we react to what is going on is just as important as what is going on.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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We must realize that we are not a truly advanced species. If extraterrestrials are visiting Earth--we must assume that they are so radically advanced physiologically, socially, and technologically--that we would be incapable of harming them.


Why must we assume that? This is like saying we are SO radically advanced from the Ancient Romans because we have the airplane. In reality, that Roman's spear would kill us just as surely as a modern machine gun. Basically, ONE invention could be all that separates us...i.e. an interstellar drive. I've never understood this idea of assigning godhood to aliens. If they were so damned worry-free...they wouldn't bother hiding...




We should not assume that their motivations are malevolent. Advanced species would have been shaped by their ancestral history much as we do--yet have had the collective wisdom to not destroy themselves.


It's not a blind assumption, it's supported by the evidence. The initial UFO flaps centered around defense installations. Their actions in these encounters seems to support a testing of defenses strategy... Also, I'd hardly call abducting people against their will benevolent. And I'll strike down the "they see us as lab rats" idea....as ANY being with an OUNCE of common sense can easily tell, upon descending through the clouds, that man is sentient... The buildings, crops growing in squares, etc. all testify to that...unless of course the aliens are completely brain dead. The good news though, is that IF they were so technologically superior and IF they desired conquest....we'd have likely seen the takeover decades ago....so at least that doesn't seem to be on the agenda.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted byYoungblood_USA
Interestingly, if there are people from other worlds, then they are 100x smarter and more technologically advanced than we are

Originally posted by Jack of Scythes
If extraterrestrials are visiting Earth--we must assume that they are so radically advanced physiologically, socially, and technologically--that we would be incapable of harming them.

I can concede the advanced level of extraterrestrial technology, but nothing else. Technology wise, look at our species in the last one hundred years....Tremendous advancements; but we as a group are really no smarter and are society appears to be devolving
Of course since I wrote this Gazrok has visited the issue with far more eloquence.


Originally posted by highhorse313
Obviously, the disinformation planted by our government continues to perpetuate the myth that we would all run amok once we know the truth about ET.

I would not run amok. I would continue to go to work and pay my bills. Can't you all see we're all being played like violins. Sheeples is right!

I don't anticipate rioting in the streets....more of an uneasy 'ripple' through society. Because, despite our ability to transmit information very quickly on a global scale, roughly 85% (source) of the world's population does not have regular Internet access and will get the news in two days, three days, etc.


Originally posted by Gazrok

My secondary argument is, the governments and military of this planet are powerless against a small number of unknown visitors. And they will not admit it. Imagine the consequences of declaring, "We can't do anything about them".

That's an assumption.

Yeah, it is.....AAGH!!! I HATE WHEN I DO THAT!!!.....O.K., I'm better now.


Originally posted by nullster
....anyone or any group that generates an income or has financial interests or status in the study or subject of UFOs/Aliens would be affected especialy if disclosure did not favor their field of expertise/interest....


Originally posted by Gazrok
Ridicule is an effective tool, and far more effective than the early appeals to patriotism and threats. Disclosure (or more specifically, disinfo) is simply another trick in the tool bag of ridicule.


I think these two statements are closely related. Look at the BS surrounding S***o. Second thought, don't. Don't you think its possible individuals with financial interests in the 'mystery' would actively work to prevent disclosure, or highly discredit the information?


Originally posted by Gazrok
However, proof would really only be the BEGINNING of UFOlogy as a science...



Originally posted by denythestastusquo
If disclosure happened then ufology would become a defacto science that would have to be recognized by the scientific community instead of the disrespect it now receives.

It could be a science now.
Apparently the scientific community ignores or dismisses the issue because of the 'whacko' element.


Originally posted by sturod84
red bull induced

That stuff comes in red too?





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