Birchbark Scrolls...another Asia/Native American Connection?

Could the following story be another tantalizing hint shedding light on the origins of settlements in North America?

www.nzherald.co.nz...
Carbon dating tests of rare manuscripts dubbed the 'Dead Sea Scrolls of Buddhism' have confirmed the priceless texts are from the first and fifth centuries AD, and could be the missing link in Buddhist history, a group of Australian scientists have reported.

-snip-

"Buddhism was originally an oral tradition but little is known about how it developed from spoken word to written word, so the discovery and date confirmation will give us a unique insight into the development of Buddhist literature,"

-snip-

... actual scrolls - which were made out of birch bark

Interestingly, the Algonkian- speaking Ojibway have, for centuries (likely 10's of millenia), used the same method in preserving their own oral traditions...

link provides an example of birchbark scrolls made by the Southern Ojibway who live in the Northeastern quadrant of North America.

Normally, the scrolls would be copied and re-copied as they become dry and brittle and broken up from use. However, Selwyn Dewdney, who has done extensive research into American birchbark scroll collections, states that under good conditions, the bark can last for centuries...or even millenia (if they are stored in an airless environment ie...contained in a clay vessel). The method of conveying the oral tradition, in this way, is through the use of symbols inscribed into the soft material just below the white surface of the birchbark, although other methods are also used;

from The Sacred Scrolls of the Southern ojibway by Selwyn Dewdney (University of Toronto Press)

For executing designs on birchbark a variety of techniques beyond the simple act of scraping was used. Porcupine quills, moose hair, spruce root and applique using bark cutouts were all employed by the Algonkian-speakers. The full thickness of the outer bark was used, exept for the unique bitten bark patterns. To produce these the cork layers were seperated into the thinnest possible sheets, which were folded, refolded, and frquently folded again, then bitten through with eye teeth. When the bark is opened up and held against the light the full pattern is revealed.

. edited to add the reference to use of birchbark in the leading 'external' story





[edit on 10-3-2006 by masqua]

Bark cloth and bark texts are simply a reflection of who had what materials at the time. They were also common in Sumatra, etc. So, no, it doesn't provide a link at all... particularly since the root languages of each group are so different.

if you ask any Native American they will tell you the Bearing strait theory is incorrect. Every indiginous culture has thier own creation story, just ask.

Originally posted by mosca
if you ask any Native American they will tell you the Bearing strait theory is incorrect. Every indiginous culture has thier own creation story, just ask.

I have accumulated much information about the Algonkians and will back you up on that, mosca. It's an unfortunate fact that not many scientists or researchers would pay any attention to the migration stories that the native peoples themselves offer. If evidences are shown which back up these migration legends, they are often ignored because the information does not fit with the common view (ie anything preClovis).

On the topic of scientific proofs, though, I was able to find this gem about DNA and the Native Americans of the northeastern quadrant of N America:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Decisive evidence would have to come from an independent arena. Douglas Wallace studies mitochondrial DNA, part of the human chromosomes that is passed unchanged from mother to daughter. It only varies when mistakes occur in the replication of the genetic code. Conveniently for Wallace's work (piecing together a global history of migration of native peoples) these mistakes crop up at a quite regular rate. The technique has allowed Wallace to map the geographical ancestry of all the Native American peoples back to Siberia and northeast Asia.

The route of the Clovis hypothesis was right. The date, however, was wrong - out by up to 20,000 years. Wallace's migration history showed waves of incomers. The Clovis people were clearly not the first humans to set foot across North America.

"DNA lineage predominantly found in Europe got to the Great Lakes, 14,000 to 15,000 years ago"
Douglas Wallace, Emory University

Douglas Wallace's DNA history bore fruit once more. In the DNA profile of the Ichigua Native American tribe he identified a lineage that was clearly European in origin, too old to be due to genetic mixing since Columbus' discovery of the New World. Instead it dated to Solutrean times. Wallace's genetic timelines show the Ice Age prompted a number of migrations from Europe to America. It looks highly likely that the Solutreans were one.

From what I have learned, the people who populated the northeastern quadrant of North America not only say their migration was from east to west, but is borne out in their migration charts as they were inscibed on their birchbark scrolls.

Byrd
I'm also going through a comparitive study on the similarities between the Midiwewin set of beliefs and how it dovetails with buddhism. There's little information on the first, so it's not going to be easy.

Interestingly enough, to add to your comment regarding Sumatra I have found that birchbark scrolls were also used by the Ob-Ugrians of western Siberia.
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edit to correct crappy typing




[edit on 12-3-2006 by masqua]

very interesting. Take a look at my avatar, this is a pic of European man who lived in Peru at a similiar time. It is a peice of Moche pottery from the Nasca region. They built wells there and also in Africa long ago, and were also tied into the mound building culture here.

Id love to research about that European DNA, any more information or links about that would be appreciated. As I said i beleive they were here that long ago as brothers of many tribes here, were tied into the moundbuilding culture, I beleive they may have been here to build the ancient wells that are supposed to be around the Great Lakes area (that run from there to the ocean underground). The New England coast is full of ancient roads, stonework, homes like ancient europe had etc...from these ancient European visitors (i beleive this happened right after the flood) Any more information you have would be appreciated. I have been on the trail of these ancient European visitors for a long time...

this may tie into the fact that the native peoples around the great lakes are a band of peoples who were told to migrate west from the east to hold the Great Lakes area in balance using sacred ceremonies, and they came from the East and were a band of peoples there known as "the people of the first dawn" who split into three parts, two remained out east (the first tribe the Pilgrims encountered) and the third migrated east to the Great Lakes region. There was also a tribe out East nearby who had clay tablets and returned them to the Hopi people and to the Hopi that signified not only the end of this 4th world but a hard time to come in the transition from 4th world to 5th (ie we might not make it)

[edit on 13-3-2006 by mosca]

I've picked up quite a few links which define similarities between Buddhism and the Native American traditional ways. For the most part, they are long, wordy and full of educated conjecture.

One I came across was much less so, but still eloquent and succint, so I thought I'd toss it onto the thread.

www.taramandala.com...

Interview with Lorain Fox Davis and Tsultrim Allione on
CONNECTIONS BETWEEN BUDDHISM AND NATIVE AMERICAN PRACTICES

LORAIN
I'm Cree and Blackfeet-Cree from Canada and Blackfeet from Montana. I studied for many years with a traditional Lakota teacher, Irma Bear Stops.
-snip-
I was introduced to Tibetan Buddhism over thirty years ago and my primary Tibetan Buddhist teacher is Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, who married my husband and I when he came to Crestone, Colorado in 1981.
-snip-
There is a great similarity between Native American spirituality and the Tibetan Buddhist teachings of compassion and respect for every living creature. This respect for all life is what I learned from my Cree grandmother when I was a child. There are many Tibetan teachers who come through here and I try to attend their sessions. They are grounded in the environment, and they have ceremonies similar to ours of burning cedar to invite and honor the spirits-the spirits of the mountains, the spirits of the water, the Elemental Beings and the great Thunderbird who brings the rains of purification and regeneration. The spiritual power of thunder and lightning is central to both Native and Buddhist traditions. These ancient traditions hold that Thunder Beings are the spiritual and physical manifestations of Spirit.

TSULTRIM
Some of the Tibetan Buddhist practices and most of those of Native American are grounded in relationship to the elements and all beings. The Tibetans have a smoke offering ceremony called Sang in which you make a fire and then put juniper branches and other offerings like grains, honey and milk products to make smoke. You see the smoke from that fire turning into offerings for all beings. The Native Americans also use smoke from cedar and age for purification.
For me, the sweat lodge, or Stone People's Lodge, is a bit like the Tibetan Buddhist Mandala. The Mandala is a template of the enlightened mind based on the center and the four directions. In the lodge there are four directions and four rounds (sessions of prayer; each round has a different meaning. During the sweat, you go through a process of death and rebirth. When you enter the lodge, you shed everything, and then during the four rounds in your praying you touch in on every aspect of your being. When you come out, you are symbolically reborn. Both the mandala and the sweat lodge ceremony are centered in a physical mandala of the universe; both are deeply transformative architectures for the psyche.
The Stone People's Lodge and Tibetan Buddhism both include teachings of the integration of masculine and feminine. The sweat lodge, shaped like a turtle shell, is placed in front of the fire with a small Tree of Life in between them. The lodge symbolizes the feminine womb of rebirth, and the fire the masculine. The Tree of Life symbolizes what is born from that union. Rocks are heated in the fire and are brought past the Tree of Life into a pit in the center of the lodge. In Tantric Buddhism, one of the primary symbols is the union of the masculine, representing skillful means, and the feminine, representing wisdom. Their sexual union represents the non-dual state, like the union of the fire and the womb in the lodge.

The link provided has a few more added points, but it is a manageable length to read.

Mosca...I'll try to find some more links on the DNA evidence...I know I've read about it before.
I have loads of information (in book form) about the migrations of the Ojibway...in fact, the link in my sig has the migration as told in the Seven Fires prophecy.
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yeah let me know what you come up with. loved the buddism link also.

-ever notice how the symbol of the kingdom of Shamballah has the four sacred colors on it as well as blue (four colors of corn hopi people grow)

I live in MN currently and grew up among L/Dakota people, and have known many Ojibwe people in my day.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by mosca]

Last year my wife and I purchased a cottage at the Kettle Point Reserve near Ipperwash, Ontario. We lease the land from a member of the Kettle Point band.

The Kettle Point Reserve is the home of nearly fifteen hundred Chippewas. I have been doing research on Native American culture starting, naturally with
The Chippewas of the Kettle Point and Stoney Point First Nations I had never heard of birch bark scrolls before and I find this extremely interesting and a point from which I might launch my own research. Thanks very much.



Man, this is another reason that I love ATS. I am always finding things to research, read or to simply sit back and think about. Thanks



[edit on 3/20/2006 by benevolent tyrant]

Originally posted by masqua
I've picked up quite a few links which define similarities between Buddhism and the Native American traditional ways. For the most part, they are long, wordy and full of educated conjecture.

One I came across was much less so, but still eloquent and succint, so I thought I'd toss it onto the thread.

Of course Tibetian Buddhism resembles Native American belief. Tibetian (and Mongolian) Buddhism has strong, deep roots in the shamanic beliefs of the people that were there prior to the Buddhist period. Shamanic principles are fairly uniform the world over, based as they are on cohesive existance with the world around you, and the world beyond yourself.

Now, if Native American beliefs held to the more "Buddhist" parts of Tibetian Buddhism, you may have a case - Discovering Tibetian script on a birchbark scroll in Wisconson, perhaps?

For what it's worth, my Chinese scholar friend tells me that in Chinese oral tradition, there was a mass migration of Asians to North America via the
Bering Strait...strange how the 2 groups have very different stories about where they came from.

Originally posted by forestlady
For what it's worth, my Chinese scholar friend tells me that in Chinese oral tradition, there was a mass migration of Asians to North America via the
Bering Strait...strange how the 2 groups have very different stories about where they came from.

I believe there have been many migrations into the Americas over the millenia, but that only the most recent are really known about. That there was a migration across the Bering Strait is very likely, especially as the Ice Age was ending and the N. American coastline freed itself. It would be interesting to see models of what the Aluetians looked like when the sea level was lowered. It's my understanding that on the other side of the Atlantic there was a section of dry land where the English Channel now seperates the British Isles from the rest of Europe.

In the 200,000 years of the migrations out of Africa, our ancestors must have some surprises for us yet.

In the Chinese oral traditions, what are some of the stories? To my understanding, the areas in Southeast Asia and China happened around 40,000 years ago and then they carried on over the Bering Strait 15 - 20,000 ago. Genetics clues back that up.

All very interesting...but I doubt if we are fully aware of all the scenarios.

TheWalkingFox...that depends on the date of the migration and from what area. The first Buddhist script was likely not developed before the migrations happened, yet the 'Shaman Way' could have been carried through the oral traditions, because it precedes writing by tens of millenia.

Thanks to both of you for re-igniting this thread. I've been ignoring the sharing of my spotty research since I became a moderator here, but that is going to change.
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edit for spelling and grammar



[edit on 20-6-2006 by masqua]

Thanks for the applause Masqua. I, too, have read that the DNA supports the Bering Strait theory. I do not know any of the details of the stories that my friend mentioned, he gave no details that I remember. I will e-mail him and ask for details.

No, American Indian traditions aren't related to Buddhism.

The AmerInd people were all here by 5000 BC. That's around 4,500 years *before* Gautama Siddhatha Buddha lived.
www.metmuseum.org...

Hinduism as a religion was fairly well established by then, with the Rig Veda and Upanshiad being the main sources.
www.historyforkids.org...


The Rig Veda itself was composed sometime before 1100 BC
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Byrd
No, American Indian traditions aren't related to Buddhism.

The AmerInd people were all here by 5000 BC. That's around 4,500 years *before* Gautama Siddhatha Buddha lived.

You're quite correct about when the Amerind people were all here. The migrations from Asia across the Bering Strait to the southern tip of South America have left clues in Monte Verde (for instance) dated to over 14,000 years ago.

But that does not preclude seperation. What I mean is that it was not a 'one-way trip' over that time. I'm suggesting that there are hints of connection, through trade, sea faring and the methods used in the 'passing' of information. Those first peoples never cut their ties as they explored further and further afield, always going back in whatever way they could, be it land bridge or kayak. As TheWalkingFox suggested, shamanic belief systems are basically the same the world over...from the South African San to the Amerindians. He's right...that's exactly the reason why I suspect continued connection during the migrations.

Also, Buddhism came from a source... it wasn't invented completely by Buddha no more than Christianity was invented by Jesus Christ. It arose from a system of belief which was already in place but became exemplified (if that is the correct word) through Christ and Buddha. The base already existed upon which the practice was built (as is shown in the Rig Veda and the earliest evidences of Hinduism).

www.urbandharma.org...

In effect, this modern Buddhism distanced itself from the actual Buddhism surrounding it. It rejected many ritual elements, Professor Lopez writes, implicitly conceding the charges of Western officials and missionaries that Buddhist populations were ridden by superstition and burdened by exploitative monastic establishments: "The time was ripe to remove the encrustations of the past centuries and return to the essence of Buddhism."

and

www.e-sangha.com...

In its fundamental doctrines basic Buddhism is closer to Pali Buddhism than to the Mahâyâna schools. This is because the Pali Canon is the oldest compilation of the Buddha's teaching, and closest to the actual words of the Buddha. Its present form was settled at the Third Council of Buddhists held during the reign of King Asoka of Ancient India about 250 BCE. The Pali Canon was thus systemised quite early, and has changed very little, indeed if at all, since then. It was committed to writing in the first century BCE, and this preserved the texts from possible further verbal corruption. The Pali Canon (like some other Buddhist canons) consists of three sections (called Piakas or baskets) dealing with the Vinaya (monastic discipline), Sutta (doctrines) and the Abhidhamma (the analysis of the Dhamma).

and, from the links you supplied...

www.metmuseum.org...

On the fourth trip, he saw a wandering holy man whose asceticism inspired Siddhartha to follow a similar path in search of freedom from the suffering caused by the infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth.

Your second link...

www.historyforkids.org...

With the arrival of the Aryans about 1500 BC, the Indo-European gods entered India as well. This was the beginning of modern Hinduism. Hinduism was (and is) polytheistic - Hindus believe in many gods. Stories about these gods were written down in the Rig Veda and other epic poems. In this kind of Hinduism, people believed in reincarnation - that people could be reborn into other bodies after they died.


But in the 600's BC, Indian people were interested in some other way to get a good rebirth than through sacrifice and the priests. This search is seen in the Upanishads, written about this time. And it is seen in the teachings of the Buddha in the 500's BC. According to Gautama Buddha, people can get free of the cycle of reincarnation by being good people, by learning not to care about the things of the body, and through meditation. Buddhism became very popular in India and quickly spread throughout East Asia. But even Buddhists still paid attention to the Hindu gods.

The main question to answer here is; was there a relatively steady stream of communication, through trade and religious belief, between the early Amerinds and their Asian/European roots? I doubt that there is a comprehensive study done on this, but, there are hints.
.

Originally posted by masqua
TheWalkingFox suggested, shamanic belief systems are basically the same the world over...from the South African San to the Amerindians. He's right...that's exactly the reason why I suspect continued connection during the migrations.

Walkingfox is correct... however, as the links indicated, Shamanism was not one of the religions practiced by the Hindus (and Buddha was Hindu) and hadn't been one of the religious practices of the area for nearly 1,000 years.

Even Buddha's life history makes this very evident. The people were already living in a very structured environment with elaborate polytheistic beliefs and rituals.



Also, Buddhism came from a source... it wasn't invented completely by Buddha no more than Christianity was invented by Jesus Christ. It arose from a system of belief which was already in place but became exemplified (if that is the correct word) through Christ and Buddha. The base already existed upon which the practice was built (as is shown in the Rig Veda and the earliest evidences of Hinduism).

On the fourth trip, he saw a wandering holy man whose asceticism inspired Siddhartha to follow a similar path in search of freedom from the suffering caused by the infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth.

As that site indicated, it was inspired by the Hindu religion which had the belief in an infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. These are not Shamanic concepts (we can discuss Coyote in another thread, but that isn't true rebirth but more reanimation.)

The main question to answer here is; was there a relatively steady stream of communication, through trade and religious belief, between the early Amerinds and their Asian/European roots? I doubt that there is a comprehensive study done on this, but, there are hints.

There's extensive material on this in ethnographic archives and books... and the answer is "no." In order to have communication, you have to speak each other's languages (or develop a patois. "Spanglish" is one such patois.) Names for each others' goods enter the new language (example... modern US we have "burrito, taco, tamagoch, sauerkraut", etc, etc.) and interbreeding occurs (Hindu body types run toward skinny with long heads; AmerInds tend to be stockier with rounder heads.)

When there is a real land that people travel to, you have the other products of travel and trade: exchanges of goods (we don't see the AmerInds with swords or metal-tipped arrows and strong recurve bows though the Hindus had them. We don't see the entry of silk or woven cotton nor do we see horses entering the land. You have maps (or directions) and you have lists of rulers that they were dealing with (if you have a literate civilization, and the Hindus certainly were.)

There is no change in art styles (styles along the west coast of America are VERY distinctive) -- and style mimicry is one marker that a culture has been influenced by another. We do not see great narratives from the Hindus detailing voyages with notes on what the natives called the places.

We don't find skins of uniquely American animals in their material (which we WOULD see because they would also have traded for leather.) Wealthy rulers around the world had been keeping zoos (collections of exotic animals) since around 2000 BC. They'd also been stuffing animals and keeping exotic skins and hides to wear or display. Although the skins of American animals would have been highly prized (and some, such as the American Turkey, are very easy to keep alive), none ever had American animals until regular trade was established between the continents in about 1400 AD.
www.wta.org.za...

We don't find foods and plants from each continent entering early (and taking over the local ecology, as it is prone to do.)

Also on the AmerInd side, there's no pictographs/petroglyphs/legends of these people nor is there a sudden change in their beliefs and systems of government away from strictly tribal beliefs.

Maybe the migration from east to west was in essence the return trip? Maybe there
was no cross pollination as such because they were "going home"?

Also on the AmerInd side, there's no pictographs/petroglyphs/legends of these people nor is there a sudden change in their beliefs and systems of government away from strictly tribal beliefs.

This could be a reflection of the observation made by Red Jacket in the 1730's as I recall,

" You tell me our ways are wrong and yours are right, Yet you cannot even decide among yourselves who is right. When you have decided among yourselves who is right
THEN come again to me and we will talk of this."

from Byrd's last post
Also, Buddhism came from a source... it wasn't invented completely by Buddha no more than Christianity was invented by Jesus Christ. It arose from a system of belief which was already in place but became exemplified (if that is the correct word) through Christ and Buddha. The base already existed upon which the practice was built (as is shown in the Rig Veda and the earliest evidences of Hinduism).

First, in order for others reading this thread to follow who said what, I should point out that this was my comment.
---------------------------------------------------

originally posted by Byrd
As that site indicated, it was inspired by the Hindu religion which had the belief in an infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. These are not Shamanic concepts.

True...but that is from an recent era. I am proposing a much more ancient connection when discussing influences within the Amerind belief systems and where they originated from.

here's a few links discussing Shamanism and possible hints tothe archaic roots of Buddhism and how they are intertwined...

en.wikipedia.org...

There is a strong shamanistic influence in the Bön religion of some Central Asians, and in Tibetan Buddhism. Buddhism became popular with shamanic peoples such as the Tibetans, Mongols and Manchu beginning in the eighth century. Forms of shamanistic ritual combined with Tibetan Buddhism became institutionalized as the state religion under the Chinese Yuan dynasty and Qing dynasty. According to some, one common element of shamanism and Buddhism is the attainment of spiritual realization, at times mediated by entheogenic (psychedelic) substances.

chineseculture.about.com...

The Xibe ethnic minority in Xinjiang believed in Polytheism before China¡¯s national liberation in 1949. In addition to the gods of insect, dragon, land and smallpox, the Xibes also worshipped divine protectors of homes and animals. Besides, some Xibe people believe in Shamanism and Buddhism. The Xibe people are pious worshippers of ancestors, to whom they offer fish every March and melons every July.

atheism.about.com...

Traditional Mongols worshipped heaven (the "clear blue sky") and their ancestors, and they followed ancient northern Asian practices of shamanism, in which human intermediaries went into trance and spoke to and for some of the numberless infinities of spirits responsible for human luck or misfortune.

So, it would seem to me that Buddhism and Shamanism do have common roots, even though Buddha did sever the ties in the modern religion.

originally posted by Byrd
When there is a real land that people travel to, you have the other products of travel and trade: exchanges of goods (we don't see the AmerInds with swords or metal-tipped arrows and strong recurve bows though the Hindus had them. We don't see the entry of silk or woven cotton nor do we see horses entering the land. You have maps (or directions) and you have lists of rulers that they were dealing with (if you have a literate civilization, and the Hindus certainly were.)

Again, true, but also related to a recent era. Both the emergence of Buddha and the production of steel are of historical times, and yet the migrations cover a span ten times the size, going back as much as 20,000 years. There may have been influences which disrupted trade between the Northeastern America and the British isles as in the recent case of the Roman invasion as well as rising sea levels in much more ancient times.

There are still tantalizing connections remaining, such as those Navaho sand paintings compared to Tibetan.

Language is another. Amerind has approximately 600 languages. Na-Dene, for instance, is of a family spoken in Alaska, western Canada, the Navaho, Tlingit and Haida. Eskimo-Aluet is a group of 10 languages spoken in Siberia, Alaska, Greenland and parts of Canada. The complex remnants are confusing, to say the least...and has led to the strange relationship between 'splitters' and 'lumpers'.

Splitters would like to disassociate language groups and individualize them.

Lumpers prefer to associate those groups into...well, lumps.

Another question: how many distinct migrations have there been from Asia to the Americas?

.

I recently starting learning more of my Girlfriend and Step Daughter's religion of Soka Gokkai Buddhism, it's Called Value Creation in Japanese. It is a Japanese Version of the religion.

Not all Buddhism is the same, just as not all Christianity as the same, there will be semantical differences. For instance, in Soka Gokkai, or SGI for short, we do not Believe in Buddha as a Deity, we believe in Awakening our Buddha nature to become as Gods or (Buddha if you will.)

There are many sects of the Buddhist practice, just as there the many sets of other Religions.

-ADHD

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me

Not all Buddhism is the same, just as not all Christianity as the same, there will be semantical differences. For instance, in Soka Gokkai, or SGI for short, we do not Believe in Buddha as a Deity, we believe in Awakening our Buddha nature to become as Gods or (Buddha if you will.)

True ADHD, and here's a Korean sect...

www.sakyadhita.org...

Throughout history, what the Korean women Buddhists knew was not the Buddhist philosophy of life but something more along the lines of a grassroots level philosophical perspective heavily influenced by shamanism and traditional folk beliefs.

What I'd like to discover, which I didn't make clear in the previous post, is proof of the trade in ideas and articles, going both across the Aluetians and Greenland, Iceland and on to the British Isles at a time prior to the invasion of the Romans into Northern Europe when they killed off the Druids.

The similarities between Irish Paganism and the Ojibway religious practices are too similar not to suspect some trade in ideas. The Birchbark scroll method is of Eastern Asian origin, I suspect, and that is how I made that connection.

It'd be interesting to learn more about SGI, though.

Thanks