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Help Needed - photo analyst???

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posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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In regards to the illumination on the face..........If an image of a ghost were to actually appear on film or on the 'receptors' of a digital camera, would that image depend on, or even reflect the lighting in the room at the time of the shot??

If you were a ghost, it would be your 'energy' or 'life force' that created the image, not the 'reflected' light that makes plain old folks show up on a photo, right??.......You could even possibly 'choose' to be seen in whatever light you wanted, from what ever direction......

Knight, there are many on this board who have described personal experiences, some like yours and some even more extraordinary. Often they are met with open minds, but also they are often met with skepticism, or outright dismissal. Please continue to discuss with those that are truly interested.....I for one, would genuinely like to hear and see more!

.......and feel free to hit the ignore button below those members who offend.




posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 10:52 PM
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Yes I believe that the old fella is your grandpa who passed away not long before the photo was taken. 3 things are noticable to me. First, he is an older male relation (has the same physical characteristics) Second he is illuminated by bright white light that is not comming from anything in the room. Last but not least, I believe that he is looking the way he feels he looks, kind of manafesting his own image. Due to the fact that he recently passed, there is one part of him that he forgot about the proof for me that the man in the photo is your grandpa's "ghost"......he forgot about his eyes.



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 11:49 PM
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WOW - we have people in this forum who have no problem believing that a ghost is, or could be captured on film. Who believe that it is possible that this photo - even with the obviously satanic imagery that was posed in the photo and the altered Last Supper scene on the wall to show a demonic image, etc... is legitimate, but they don't believe in God or Satan.

A photo that is obviously a hoax - they lend credibility too, but God and the Devil - nah - they can't exist - or as one poster claimed that religion is responisble for all that is wrong with mankind.

What kind of nutty nonsense is this?


Ya know - i wish that these people who think that religion is the reason for all the evils in the world lived in a time before Christ and His Church. If these people could just go back in time and live in Rome before Christ - live at a time when there were no charities, when the commandement to love ones enemy was unknown, when there were no hospitals (save for the rich), when there were no ophanages, etc... I wish that they could live as one with Leprasy lived before Christ or how they lived in secular societies - and compare their treatement to the treatement that the followers of the RELIGION of Jesus Christ gave them.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 12:28 AM
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It is hard for us to deduce who the person in the image is. In the forum, someone mentioned about it being an older male relation because of same physical characteristics. I can hardly see anyone's face except the side face of the person. Was there a family photograph that I have missed with everyones face. Only Knight can confirm the identity of the person and I guess he does believe it to the spirit of his Grandfather.

Second is the illuninated bright white light. Well we dnt know anything about the room. There could be another light source in the room. Obviously as discussed before the timing was 5pm a winter evening and was getting dark. Untill we get more information we cannot deduce.

Dnt want to sound like a skeptic, I too believe in Ghost/God/Satan, but there are many reasons which need to be given thought.



    I dnt know knight.
    The photograph could be taken before his grandfathers death. Dnt know the family history, but he could be reluctant to take a picture.
    The photograph is taken from a digital camera. Is it possible to get a date/time stamp on the photograph. Obviously if it has been downloaded and the photograph deleted from the camera, the answer is no.
    Is there another light source in the room? Only knight can give us more information. This can maybe help us deduce the light on the face.
    Height of his grandfather? Why height cuz that can help deduce if he was not physically sitting on the chair or he could be a person who is not too tall. I have seen cases where parents are around 5 feet and their children grow to 5.5 or 6 foot.


I know all this sounds like a skeptic all the work everyone has done, satisfy knights answer if it does, but for us, as we dnt have any info that a blurred image, it is tough for me to believe up straight that reflection is a ghost.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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Knight.. Care to comment on these pictures? The more I look the more i see the outline of a mans head











[edit on 13-3-2006 by noslenwerd]



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 02:30 PM
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I can hardly see anyone's face except the side face of the person. Was there a family photograph that I have missed with everyones face.


I have the original photo with all of the faces in plain view, as I was the one who blurred them out for Knight. But Knight does not want the faces revealled, and I respect his privacy.


A photo that is obviously a hoax

Would you care to tell us how you think the photo was hoaxed then? What is so "obvious" about it? Funny someone with only 15 posts here can be so certain.


The photograph is taken from a digital camera. Is it possible to get a date/time stamp on the photograph. Obviously if it has been downloaded and the photograph deleted from the camera, the answer is no.


As I said earlier, the photo was taken on Dec. 11, 2005 at 6:08 PM on a Canon EOS 350D Digital Camera.


The more I look the more i see the outline of a mans head

Noslen, go back to page 3, approximately halfway down the page, and you will see a post by me with an inverted picture of the face you are talking about. You will be able to make it out much more clearly, as well as a third 'face'.

[edit on 13-3-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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frayed 1

Fair point on reflections and flash. However the fact is that the image appears to be in the visible wave length.
The fact is the face is seemingly illuminated by a source external of it...it appears to be in the direction of the flash. The angle of the mirror has deflected the flash from being directly in front of camera..and thus it did not ruin the shot. Perhaps it is illuminated by the flash itself or perhaps by some wavelegth within the flash (its not all light energy) similarly to some of the so called orb photos. I am not suggesting an answer just a viewpoint which I assume I am still allowed to have. LOL.
I feel part of the mystery is that the other subjects should have seen anything in that location, but did not. The flesh tones of the face would appear to be consistant with the ccd capture of a living subject (sorry to sound insensitive). I am sure that there is more info here in the photo, one day it will click with someone. Thanks for your comments.

Onesharpbroadhead,

I cannot be sure that a ghost can be captured on film but Ican be sure that the god or devil does not exist. These are concepts created by rich churches to keep their income stream by fear and paranoia.
Religion IS responsible for alot of hte worlds ills. It always has been and always will be.
I mean look at the way the compassionate well meaning churches or its agents raped the new world and murdered its people for the glory of its agents and the richness of the church.
Interesting that you mention Rome. I will not get into the merits of Rome except that the evil of the Roman Empire is still in existence today. Roman Empire went to the Holy Roman Empire and evolved into the catholic church.
A belief system that will allow millions to die in Africa but for the use of a condom. A church whose Paedophile Priests show it for what it is. Corrupt.
You may not be catholic yourself but my point is if your god or jesus, mohamed or whatever is all powerful why does he not punish those that are evil whatever their belief?? Surely only one of you lot can be right??
There is no god. Ask the christians fed to lions in Rome or the Jews, Gypsies, non caucasian or disabled victims murdered by Nazis. Did god help them? NO HE DID NOT. He could not, because you have to exist to be able to.
That there is a spirit / ethereal realm, I believe to be possible. But god? Would such a creature allow you religious zealots to waste money building places of worship when the money could be spent helping the poor?
All of these abrahamic religions go on about not worshipping deities but everywhere you go there are crosses, images, saints bones, shrouds, you name it you people will worship it. And dont get me started on mohamed the paedophile, wife beater.

Knight did say that the family were not spiritual but you people have to drag your filth into a sane discussion..you always will.
As I understand it church attendances are falling. Does that tell you something? Sport, showbiz and fame are giving the masses a more religious experience than a cold, smelly church.
By all means carry on with your belief. I am totally and completely sure that all I will have to answer to upon my death is myself. In the afterlife, if we should meet I will try not to scoff and say "told you so" when you realise there is no god. LOL.

IOV



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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yarcofin

Ah - what does the amount of posts made in this forum have to do with anything? I can say that this photo is an obvious hoax because of the granny with the satanic gesture (no way that is an accident), because of the Last Supper Scene with the demon in it, and the fact that even if ghosts where real (which they are not) they could not be photographed - since they have no physical body.

Light of Truth

your nickname could not be further from the truth. You believe that "ghosts" could exist - but not God or the Devil - that is so absurd - i don't even know what to say.

You incredibly bizarre comments about the first christians who were murdered by the jews and romans not being helped by God betray your complete lack of spiritual understanding. I assure you if I asked these blessed Martyrs who desired - YES - DESIRED to die for Christ if they felt God helped them - i can assure you they will agree.

You have a very immatrue concept of God - it seems to me that if you prayed to win the Lottery and God did not grant you this wish - in your childish mind - that means that God does not exist.

Someone once asked the Angelic St. Francis of Assisi why it seemed that the evil people in this world seem to gain all the fame and riches that the world has to offer and the good people seem to be denied the "good things" in life, many having diseases, being poor, etc...

St. Francis answered saying: "God is all just, the evil are rewarded in this life for what little good they do, in the next they will pay for the great evils they have done. In this life, the good suffer for what little evil they have done, but in the next, they will receive their reward."

The incredible arrogance that some people have is amazing - because God does not reward or punish who THEY think deserve rewards or punishment -t hat means that He must not exist!

this is why it has been revealed many times that humility is the key to heaven - there are no proud and arrogant people in heaven.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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Isn't it about time this thread was ended its going way off the original question posed by Knight and turning into an arguement about the devil/satan and bringing Knights family into the arguement which was what he didn't want to happen.

I doubt whether Knight will return to this thread judging by his last post and without further imput from him this can't progress any further.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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The original post mentions nothing about Satanism or God or anything of that nature, so why would he bother to fake a picture and not even mention half of the symbolism that appears in it. Okay, the old woman's hand gesture is somewhat blatent, but the Last Supper picture is so in the background that you have to really search to even find it. Who would bother to paint a picture with Satan in it, just to put in this picture. And the fact is that it had to actually be there, because the photo I recieved was an original straight out of the camera, without any editing. There is no way that the Last Supper picture was edited with Photoshop or anything like that.

The other faces in the smaller mirror are, in my opinion, just tricks of light. The green smudges could simply be guacamole dip or wasabi, or a similar food, etc. But who would actually draw a demon in their picture of the Last Supper, just to put in this picture???

And for the record, I wouldn't consider myself Christian, Satanist, or otherwise one to believe in Satan or God, or organised religion. The fact is that stuff in this picture has correlations/links and symbolic representations of Christianity and Satanism. You don't have to believe in God or Satan to see that these things are present in the photo.

Everything in this photo remains unprovable anyways, so it doesn't matter. Every single post on this thread has been pure speculation. People are entitled to opinions.

When it comes down to it, there are only three possible outcomes for this picture.

1. The man in the mirror was actually alive and present
2. The man in the mirror is dead, but there is no ghost. It is simply another representation of him, like a picture on the wall, that was reflected into the mirror.
3. The man is a ghost.

If the image is not of a ghost, there likely is no afterlife. If the image is of a ghost, then there likely isn't a heaven or hell, or God or Satan, since the soul/ghost is not in heaven or hell, but in his own house. Unless the man is stuck in some sort of Purgatory. So the whole thing is a bit of a 'catch-22'.

Anyway there either is a ghost, or there isn't. I agree that the religious overtones are just starting to confuse the whole thing. We will never learn if there really is a ghost in this picture, nor anything else.

[edit on 13-3-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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Absolutely spot on Yarcofin.

And to onesharpbroadhead and the rest of the bible bashers. I am sure the millions dying in Africa because of your beliefs and rules written by man as well as the innocent natives of the Americas murdered by conquistadors in the name of your god and its church, to make a few priests richer really appreciate their matyrdom. Nice one christ. Ho ho.

How you can believe a fairy tale that has been rewritten several times in several languages a long time after the death of the alleged messiah, Thats faith I believe. Even the four gospels cant agree with the major event of ascension can they? (How many were there really in the tomb eg?) "The Life Of Brian" was so right in summing you guys up.

As for the evils of Rome. If it was not for the crucification of some dodgey rabbi (your faith is based on the worship of a Jew is it not??) you would have no idol for your necromantic worship would you? You would have no religion without Rome, would you? However, the Empire is still strong in the vatican is it not?

If ghosts cannot exist becase we go to heaven or hell "post mortem" then where does that leave the alleged messiah of your supposed religion? He hung about for a few days did he not? Was he in limbo.

The christian fairy tale is a simple story poorly told. I have more belief in any playground fairy tale than this sickness. If this supposed god is all powerful and the creator of all then it created satan did it not? It is responsiible for all the good and more importantly all the bad. Now you will no doubt say he gave us free will and that is what I am expressing when I say "THERE IS NO GOD" (the only time you will see me start the word god with capitals!!). Now I am entitled to say that because your god (who does not exist) gave me the right to free will and any attempt by you to stop it is going against its (your gods) will.

Also I am Illuminates of Veritas for a reason that may become clear...dont confuse me with Light of Truth that is someone else entirely, believe me.

Oh wait a minute a burning bush wants to talk to me. LOL.

IOV



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 07:23 PM
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Mocking people's beliefs is taking it a little too far. Take it to the 'Faith & Spirituality' forum.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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I thought I'd stumbled on a religion / spirituality forum.

Having read the posts and seen the pics what can be said?

Nothing proven.

In five pages I have read lunacy and common sense.
There seems to be mocking from all sides. I think that the attitude of some will ensure Knight will play no further part in this forum and perhaps scare off others in a similar situation, as someone said before.
What I have found with this and other forums is how the original issue is forgotten, often in an egotistical defense of one thing or the other.

Someone asks what is this? and in reply gets "I dont know but there is this other thing over here, if you squint your eyes and rub your hands on your head and stomach at the same time ."
This thread has been like having a picture of a mystery aircraft in flight and asking for identification and some of the responses saying they can see a face in the clouds. While the aircraft is still unidentified. Keep to the matter in hand chaps and chapeses. The striking thing to me is the fact that the face is almost central to the shot. If the mirror were angled more tangentially / perpendicular to shot then all would be flooded by flash. It is a fortunate series of events that gave us this picture. The validity of source has to be taken on trust / faith. The skeptical side of me wonders if the whole thing is part of a psychological evaluation. Who knows.

Peace, love and healing.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 08:15 PM
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By the Hi all


[edit on 13-3-2006 by Troubled Spirit]



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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I was not the originator in bringing the perversity of religion into this thread. I do ot believe in it. I do not like to see religious bigots bully their way into anything. There plainly is not any satanic inferences in the pic you would agree Yarcofin?
It is strange the god righteous set are the first to identify satan. Is this a case of know thy enemy or like attracts like? How can the righteous know so much about evil? Unless they are a Paedophile catholic priest. LOL.

By the way is "Order of Truth - Prophet" a religious title? LOL.

IOV



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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The "person" appears to be standing just inside the doorway, which would be to the back right of the photographer.

Personally, I don't think it looks an awful lot like an old man. It looks just as much like a baby or maybe even an old woman with her hair pulled back.

So there was nobody else in the house when the picture was taken? Nobody who could've poked their head in the door to see what was going on? A grandson or granddaughter might look like Grandpa if the light was shining on them right. Did any of the people in the photo bring their kids or have them nearby?

Just trying to eliminate obvious possibilities. Not debunking anything. What's to debunk? A picture with an image in it? Unless you Photoshopped it in, I don't have anything either positive or negative to say about it.



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Illuminates of Veritas
Oh wait a minute a burning bush wants to talk to me. LOL.

IOV



Originally posted by Troubled Spirit
By the Hi all


[edit on 13-3-2006 by Troubled Spirit]


Nice try with the SockPuppet account

"IOV"

Rather quick on the edit, yet not before it was noticed. :shk:

While I won't take a stance towards the context of your posts, I do have to question the relevence of such.

The point of this post is your use of these boards in a Sybil-like, multi-user fashion that clearly violates the T&C.

Per the ATS T&C, I prefer those that speak with one mouth.

Noted


[edit: clarity]

[edit on 3/13/2006 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 09:05 PM
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By the way is "Order of Truth - Prophet" a religious title? LOL.


No, it was just the 'coolest' title I could come up with at the moment. Hey, I'll even change it, if you can suggest something better. The 'Order of Truth' has nothing at all to do with religion. U2U me if you want more specifics.


Nice try with the SockPuppet account


Yeah, the whole "Also I am Illuminates of Veritas for a reason that may become clear...dont confuse me with Light of Truth that is someone else entirely, believe me." comment seemed a bit laboured to me as well.


There plainly is not any satanic inferences in the pic you would agree Yarcofin?


While I agree that there are most likely no Satanic forces at work in the picture, I do think that there are things in the picture that can be INTERPRETED as having ties to such things. Why should we close any options, just because you don't believe in them? In my opinion, the Satanic innuendo has more validity than this picture.

Anyways, I have decided not to engage in any more religious discussion on this thread. It is futile and not going to go anywhere, and it is just creating clutter, and making everyone involved look like fools.

You are entitled to your opinion. Knight is entitled to his opinion. Subz is entitled to his opinion, and I am entitled to mine. I wish everyone involved here nothing but the best.

=)

[edit on 13-3-2006 by Yarcofin]


d1k

posted on Mar, 13 2006 @ 09:40 PM
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I'm sure Knight expected the many different views posted in this thread and is expecting more, I believe that's why he came to ATS with his story and picture. He had to of known the can of worms he was opening.

I personally love this thread, nice twists. Some people are trying too hard to come up with new things in the photo (the 2nd mirror where theres supposed to be a face or even two, theres nothing there!) but other then that what is there is very interesting.



posted on Mar, 14 2006 @ 12:07 AM
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First let me preface this post with two points:

1) I just skimmed through the posts and DID NOT read them all in detail ... if I am reiterating material that's already been posted I apologize.

2) I believe in spectral beings for I have seen/experienced them myself.

Now, I believe there is something fishy with this photo. I believe the photo was digitally edited.




I think it's easy to see that the object that contains the two "faces" is a mirror on the opposite wall. It makes sense that it would have some sort of wierd reflection because it's really a DISTORTED mirrored image ... of a mirror image itself. Look at the crude arrows I've drawn ... see how the light "bends"? I would think this suggests that the glass on the mirror itself is not perfect. In fact look at the thick line drawn at the top ... this is the CEILING. See how it's curved and you can actually SEE the chandelier in the mirror? If it was a perfectly flat mirror you would not be able to see such an image. So far it's ok .... until you look at the doorway and the mirror that are on the opposite wall. Everything else in the large mirror image is curved to match the ceiling/chandelier combo. Even the small picture on the opposite wall appears to "curve" to the left slightly. And yet the mirror and doorway (with grandpa face) are perfectly straight. Unless your doorway was curved exactly opposite of what the mirror would show it to be, this makes no sense to me.

This leads me to two ideas .... 1) that the image has been digitally edited or 2) the mirror's glass is REALLY bad and the laws of optics do not apply uniformly over the mirror ... meaning that there is distortion in many places and the "faces" you may see in the "mirrored mirror" are probably just distortions of a re-reflection of the doorway itself.

Feel free to shoot me down ... this was just my first inclination upon seeing the photo and usually in these cases my gut instinct is correct. I'd love to be proven wrong though since I do indeed believe in spectral occurances. Cheers.



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