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Help Needed - photo analyst???

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posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo
...but is the protective sign of Christ.


I would also like to see undeniable proof of this too, which i doubt you will find. Might I ask, what christ are you speaking of? There are many, but only one name is above all others.


Pay close attention to the environment around a person displaying these signs. What you see will amaze you. Things like this are nothing more than earthly powers the demons have control over and play with (be it light, gravity, EM, or RF). Nothing 'SuperNatural' about it.

You'll be hardpressed to find a "haunting" where aleast one person in the environment isn't either possessed or open to demons (commonly referred to as a "medium"). Generally the one being haunted. Common sense is all it takes to see it. Why do you think in most haunting cases the 'spirits' follow whoever is being haunted. They are within them.




posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by MadGreebo
The Grandmas hand is not saluting Satan at all, but is the protective sign of Christ. Satanists reversed the hand signal so the palm faces outwards as a greeting to each other - Hail satan is what the hand means _ The Grandma ( If its a conciouse sign 0 is warding off evil not hailing it.

www.hollywoodcalifornia.com...

scroll down to the bottom of the page to see what i mean.


I'd like to add a bit to this line of thinking......

First, Grandma is using her right hand.......the satanic symbol is supposed to be made with the LEFT hand. ( whether intentional on her part or not )

My Gram used this 'sign' to ward off evil, or 'haints'......as she called ghosts or any type of spirit, or even to ward off the 'evil eye' of a 'witch'........

I can't speak for how commonly this is used or even known to 'modern' Christians. My Gradmother was pretty 'old world' when it came to her beliefs and superstitions.......you might find more reference to this as folklore rather than a 'Christian' belief.

As to the photo of Grandfather's face.......it is very interesting, and one of the best puzzlers I've seen of this type. I think you should definately go back and make other photos in the same spot, with and without other family members in the shots!! And focus on Grandfather's 'favorite' spots, like his chair you mentioned. ( A friend of mine has a great story about seeing an older woman who returned to sit in her beloved porch swing.)

PS!! Try not to become discouraged by the nay sayers....it's the nature of this beast to hunt for 'other' explainations.....so they will be bound to bring up the possibility of hoax......just roll with the punches!!



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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The face just seems to clear to be placed back by the photogragher and the lighting on his face is not right. If he was just infront of the camera when the flash went off he would be alot brighter in the mirror. The focal point of the camera is basiclly on the poeple in front of the mirror, if you look in the mirror everything is alot more out of focus than the head..
As for someone mentioning the picture not being centered you are right but how many family pictures are i am an amature photographer and any family pictures iI have taken like that look about the same!
I think the image is either in or very close to the mirror. I just can't believe it can be back by the one taking the picture.
One other thing on the grandmothers right shoulder(looking at the picture her left) above the man on the right side of the picture and below the Last Supper picture there is strips of white or lighter sections. Just seems a bit off!


Sorry about the loss of a family member.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by sswbriggs]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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One other thing about the Last Supper and the possible "satan" reference it looks like he is looking down at the grand father and in a closeup of the grandfather he seems to be looking up towards the possible image of "satan"
The two seem to be looking at each other.


[edit on 11-3-2006 by sswbriggs]



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Knight783,

I feel both for your loss and the additional hurt caused by some on this forum.

You came to this forum for help and in part you got it, perhaps.

If people had bothered to read all your postings they would be aware that it was a big step to approach the forum in the first place. The sensitivity, perhaps compassion that you were shown in not being identified etc from those willing to help has been contrasted by individuals who immediately see Satanic worship etc. Can you people even begin to understand the hurt?

As for the pic itself, well. Some control shots and more info....the physical dimensions of the room e.g. would be nice, as well as the original pic...if it was a RAW pic so much the better.

The other so called faces are easily dismissed, I believe, by the cleaning / wipe marks on the first mirror and secondary reflections on the second mirror.

The lighting on the anomoly is interesting though.

Like the signature

Know thyself?

IOV



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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I guess a reasonable response to your accusinations would be to ask you to provide us with a picture of your grandfather stating his name (driver's license? you can blur out the personal info), and the obituary from the local newspaper.

Without those 2 items, the "man" in the picture can be percieved as anyone.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Ok everyone, can we please leave out all the talk of satanism...it is bull#, codswallop, crap! It's a discussion to be reserved for those whom are lower down the food-chain, so try not to reveal your level.

When I first saw the photo, my original thought was that the face was of a bust of Churchill. Then my second thought was that it was someone viewing a television screen (which might help to explain the uniform illumination). However, the traditional placement of a television in a living room is usually left or right of the fireplace (the group of people photographed are occluding the fireplace, so the television would be to the right of the group, but they are not illuminated similarly as the face). The main mirror is I think slightly angled toward the floor due to how it is affixed to the wall, perhaps with picture wire and hooks behind the mirror? Did your grandmother not complain about its height placing, if not, it is because it is angled downwards slightly, and could thus see herself in it?

My third thought was that the face was close to a window and was being illuminated by daylight - the window being to the right of the group, but again, the group's lighting is different. There are two oblique rectangular shapes left and right of the group appearing on the wall, these are nothing more than flash refracting through the gaps in the lamp shades of the ceiling light.

The camera you used is quite a decent camera, and the makers are not known for producing inferior devices, so we can discount defective apparatus. The face is definitely a face, illuminated differently than the group, and the only provision of illumination comes from a television screen, the ceiling light, a window with daylight, and the flash of the camera. We must take your word that the owner of the face was not physically present at the time of the picture being taken. Our options are rapidly coming down to one conclusion, that you have a spirit capture of your grandfather. I'd like to see a image of him in physical life.

Regards



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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To defend everything that has been said on this thread that some people are finding offensive, he asked for a photo analyst. In the spirit of true scientific analysis, we must explore every possible avenue, option, and clue that the picture holds in the finest detail. Even if that may include talk of Satanism that seems ridiculous to some/most.


I guess a reasonable response to your accusinations would be to ask you to provide us with a picture of your grandfather stating his name (driver's license? you can blur out the personal info), and the obituary from the local newspaper.

Without those 2 items, the "man" in the picture can be percieved as anyone.


Good suggestion, but he has said he is not going to post a picture of his grandfather.


the group of people photographed are occluding the fireplace, so the television would be to the right of the group, but they are not illuminated similarly as the face


Nobody has said there is a fireplace in the room....I think you're just talking about the flash of the camera.


My third thought was that the face was close to a window and was being illuminated by daylight


The picture was taken at 5pm in the winter. From experience, it was most likely dark by this time.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 09:06 PM
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First forgive me for the satanic comment I was just reacting to an earlier post.
Ok I had some time today with my kids and a friends kids so we tried to create a picture with the same outcome as the one presented to this thread. I could not get the face to focus into the picture the way it was in the real picture no matter what I tried. The lighting part was easy with a back light behind the camera. I tried with my manual setting camera and my automatic both digital. The only way to truly make it work was with Photo Shop. Now obviously I could not recreate the true scene with the lighting and all, but with the reflexion in the mirror it would not work the camera can not focus on the people and one single head! So from the little bit of time I had I believe your grand father was in the room/ mirror at the time of the picture. You might of made his spirit rest peacefully by bringing the family together for that picture.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 09:23 PM
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Interesting image there. The green color has spiritual significance in auras etc. Not sure if I remember correctly though. You may want to search that out for yourself. Also take note of where you are observing the light because there are power centres in the body eg. chalkras.

In regards the two faces in the circle above that guy, looks like a distortion in a mirror or round picture frame on the facing wall so not sure that it is anything of note there. In the case of the little face directly above the woman's head it may be a spirit posession but again too distinct to be trusted in my opinion.

The hookem satanic sign is delivered a certain way and there are situations where the hand will naturally revert to this kind of position as it has happened to me too.

I find the green light to be the most compelling issue with the photo myself but all the noted exceptions here could all add up to something too.



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 09:37 PM
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Yarcofin wrote: "Nobody has said there is a fireplace in the room....I think you're just talking about the flash of the camera."

You are not looking closely enough, behind the right-handside of the group a slight projection looks like part of a mantelpiece of a fireplace, Knight783 can confirm what it is.

Photo analysis of this image does not require talk of satanism to feed the paranoia of ridiculous claims of biblical fairystory characters whom don't and have never existed, except in the primitive and uneducated minds of the superstitious.

Like all spirit images captured with a camera, this one will have a percentage probability on its genuineness. It will never prove anything of life after death (which I accept as a naturalistic outcome for us all), it will make you think, perhaps, even, help you to decide an opinion, but it will not prove anything.

Regards



posted on Mar, 11 2006 @ 11:45 PM
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I couldnt really make out a face in that circled photo in the mirror, my imagination was struggling, i see the arrows pointing! i jus duno wtf im looking at. Im making patterns with clouds,.. cant they just be.... smudges on a mirror?


[edit on 11-3-2006 by syberkat]



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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I find it rich how people are getting up in arms about the satanic talk, but find it completely fine that we're talking about ghosts. If you accept the premise of ghosts then you surely agree there is a spiritual realm. With that comes God and Satan. This half a toe-in, half a toe-out attitude to photo analysis is not what you'd get from asking in ATS. We dont have to believe this photo is real, the authour of this thread said as much. So if there are overt signs of occultism (which there most definately is) it could lend credence to the image being faked.

Trying to stop this line of thought by throwing accusations at people for being insensitive does nothing but highten the possibility of a fake. If the issue was that sensitive for the authour then it wouldnt of been posted on a conspiracy theory website. And quite frankly im not about to just accept that there is a genuine picture of a ghost because im brow-beaten into not analysing it fully. Completely wrong website for that.

And for the record, elysiumfire, the TV is in plain view on the right hand side of the photo.

[edit on 12/3/06 by subz]



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Ill agree with subz, cuz this is a view point of different individuals. More brains together more ideas and more thoughts. I too agree that there has been a death in the family and we only wish good for Knight, however there will be individuals who look at it from different angles. "Half toe in and Half toe out doesnt help"

It is an open forum and I agree with open thoughts or analysis been produced to figure out the higher understanding. The clarity of the face is the one which brings about doubt but this could be my thought pattern and others may just think it a rare posibility...



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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Has anyone checked for a reflection on the TV screen?

I just brightened and increased the contrast on it courtesy of Photoshop and there appears to be some streak-like things and a dot of light kinda. I don't know if it is a relection of some furniture, nothing or a "spirit".

I would post the picture but I don't have something to host it on.

If you have photoshop, you can try it for yourself and post it.



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 02:38 AM
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I had tried auto-leveling the TV screen and all I could see was the flash from the camera. Nothing else was recognisable.



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by ConversationConservation
I would post the picture but I don't have something to host it on.


imageshack.us is reliable.

You have to register, but the site is FREE.



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by ConversationConservation
Has anyone checked for a reflection on the TV screen?

I just brightened and increased the contrast on it courtesy of Photoshop and there appears to be some streak-like things and a dot of light kinda. I don't know if it is a relection of some furniture, nothing or a "spirit".




I believe the "streak" you may be referring to is nothing more than a reflection of the uncle's leg resulting from the flash. The other reflections are most likely furniture/objects on the opposite side of the room.

I have uploaded a full-size, enhanced and commented version of the original photo that addresses many of the issues being discussed in the thread.

While the original photo was just over 2Mb, the enhanced and commented version is in excess of 4Mb. You can see it here

Any/all comments suggestions are welcome and most appreciated.

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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Subz wrote: "If you accept the premise of ghosts then you surely agree there is a spiritual realm. With that comes God and Satan.

and

"...for the record, elysiumfire, the TV is in plain view on the right hand side of the photo."

No, I don't agree that accepting the premise of post-mortem survival equates to a necessary acceptance of either a God or a Devil. Those two characters are from impossibly unprovable ideologies that currently account for much of the pain in the world, and that pain is not due to either of the characters, but from those whom accept their existence, and how they relate to them.
Religion will always remain an obstacle to the rational progress of mankind and peace within it.

As for the TV. Until the image was given to photoshop treatment, it was not in plain sight...it could have been a small cupboard. The TV is not on, so this discounts the appliance providing any illumination except in reflecting the flash, but as it is partly concealed it reflects very little.

So much for stating the 'bleeding obvious'!



posted on Mar, 12 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Acceptance of a spiritual realm does not mean belief in god or satan. Good and evil perhaps..but even that would be subjective to your view of morality.

My previous comments relate to the fact that I have suffered the pain of four close family deaths one after another and a year later I have got through depression and thoughts of suicide. I understand the irrationality that can occur with this state of mind. This could be why in desparation that knight asked for help on this forum.

My fear is that such scrutiny and lack of sensitivity under similar circumstances could mean future "evidence" may not be tendered for "peer review", due to fear of similar treatment. If someone were to suggest such possibilities with photos from any of those funerals last year I cannot comprehend the devastating effects it may have on any of those survivors present.
Death effects and affects us all in different ways.

I dont deny that evidence should be scrutinised. But really the matter in hand was the apparent manifestation of a deseased grandparent. The focus should be on that surely?

A lot of photos if you apply various photoshop techniques and filters will show "anomalies" like some of those mentioned. But I believe it to be akin to finding the face of Christ in a walnut panel or Mohameds name in an eggplant.

If you believe in satan or god you will find them someday oneday where you will. If you dont believe you will never see either. Personally I believe in neither. I want no part in belief systems that cause more harm than good, by controlling the gullible with fear and paranoia.

Photo is kinda interesting though. As has been said before, more info, some control shots and a look without jpeg compression would be nice.
And what of the room itself. In the mirror there is an arch and a backwall that is a different color from the one behind the subjects. The apparition seems to be between this arch and the foreground wall. And my point is..well I dont know...but there is more info in this pic than has been mentioned.... without bringing god or the devil into it. LOL

What I find kinda interesting is that the lighting of the face is almost consistant with someone to the right of the photographer in the projected range of the flash.

I can remember reading about mirror photography and reflections of "the other side". Does anybody out there know of such articles??

IOV



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